Tremere bruise-n-bleed deck - SUGGESTIONS WELCOME

Well, all I can say is, I'd like the Tremere to work. :) -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- Deck Name: It's Been Tried Before...(Tremere BnB) Created by: Kevin J. Mergen Description: A good mix of Camarilla and Sabbat Tremere, an effective cross-section of the more brutal THA cards, Bum's Rushes and Ambushes for entering combat, and enough Governs to make your prey(s) *have* to start blocking you. Crypt: (12 cards) [Min: 14, Max: 28, Avg: 5.08] 1 Kij Dansky (AUS DOM obt THA, !Tremere, 8, Priscus) 1 Astrid Thomas (aus DOM pot THA, Tremere, 7, Primogen) 1 Muaziz (aus dom for THA, Tremere, 7) 1 Reverend Blackwood (DOM obf THA, !Tremere, 6, Bishop) 1 Kurt Strauss (aus DOM tha, !Tremere, 5) 1 Merrill Molitor (aus dom THA, Tremere, 5) 1 Sabine Lafitte (aus dom pot tha, Tremere, 5) 1 Ignatius (aus dom tha, Tremere, 4) 1 Richard Tauber (AUS tha, !Tremere, 4) 1 Sarah Cobbler (dom THA, Tremere, 4) 1 Blythe Candeleria (aus THA, Tremere, 3) 1 Brooke (dom tha, !Tremere, 3) LIBRARY: (85 cards) Master (11 cards) 1 Dominate 2 Thaumaturgy 1 Academic Hunting Ground 1 University Hunting Ground 2 Blood Doll 1 Haven Uncovered 1 Mob Connections 1 Wasserschloss Anif, Austria 1 Infernal Pact Minion (74 cards) AUS: 6 Telepathic Tracking DOM: 12 Govern the Unaligned 4 Thoughts Betrayed THA: 7 Apportation 8 Blood to Water 8 Theft of Vitae 4 Soul Burn 4 Walk of Flame 1 Burst of Sunlight COMBAT: 4 Ambush 5 Bum's Rush 3 Trap REACTION: 3 Wake with Evening's Freshness OTHER: 1 Charnas the Imp 1 Succubus 1 Talaq, The Immortal 1 Arson 1 Ankara Citadel, Turkey, The -- Kevin J. Mergen, Prince of Madison, WI (remove NOSPAM for direct reply) "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, "The Art of War" "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier

>THA: >7 Apportation >8 Blood to Water >8 Theft of Vitae >4 Soul Burn >4 Walk of Flame >1 Burst of Sunlight I think Blood to Water is lame. You never, e-ever want to be at short range with this sort of deck. Now, if you Blood Fury and put in some way to absorb close combat, it might be different. If possible, it would also be nice to have more maneuvers.

On Thu, 14 Dec 2000 01:29:31 GMT, "Kevin M." <kjme...@NOSPAMhome.com> wrote: >Well, all I can say is, I'd like the Tremere to work. :) They can. It's tricky though. :) The biggest problem I find with the Tremere, believe it or not, is pool gain. The big vampires are all solid and functional, with the skillsets you need; but you have to get pool back somehow consistently, first to pay for those big vamps, and then to keep gaining against opposition... and unless you run a VERY Theft-heavy deck (20x), you can't take it off the vampires! There are quite a few tricks that "go" with them though. >A good mix of Camarilla and Sabbat Tremere, an effective cross-section of >the more brutal THA cards, Bum's Rushes and Ambushes for entering combat, >and enough Governs to make your prey(s) *have* to start blocking you. > >Crypt: (12 cards) [Min: 14, Max: 28, Avg: 5.08] >1 Kij Dansky (AUS DOM obt THA, !Tremere, 8, Priscus) >1 Astrid Thomas (aus DOM pot THA, Tremere, 7, Primogen) >1 Muaziz (aus dom for THA, Tremere, 7) 1x Bryan Van Duesen (7, aus DOM THA +1 bleed? :) Surely he fits in here SOMEWHERE? ;) Maybe in place of the Reverend who can't even USE the Telepathic Trackings? >1 Reverend Blackwood (DOM obf THA, !Tremere, 6, Bishop) >1 Kurt Strauss (aus DOM tha, !Tremere, 5) >1 Merrill Molitor (aus dom THA, Tremere, 5) >1 Sabine Lafitte (aus dom pot tha, Tremere, 5) 1x anyone-but-Sabine. No superiors on a 5-cap is going to blow the big weasel in this deck; you'll always transfer Sabine out 4th from your crypt if you find her there. I would prefer Lydia van Cuelen (6, aus dom pre tha +1 bleed) to Sabine - her special fits better. >1 Ignatius (aus dom tha, Tremere, 4) Iggy. Man. I like Iggy. But he might do better to be replaced by Roreca Quaid, and Sabine by Heinrick Schlempftooi. Sure, they only bleed for 1, but they're a 2-cap and an extra minion that can bleed for 1 while your prey is sitting holding one Wake and one Deflection. >1 Richard Tauber (AUS tha, !Tremere, 4) >1 Sarah Cobbler (dom THA, Tremere, 4) >1 Blythe Candeleria (aus THA, Tremere, 3) >1 Brooke (dom tha, !Tremere, 3) Jing Wei (3, dom tha) might have a place in here too, since you only have 6 Auspex cards. >LIBRARY: (85 cards) >Master (11 cards) >1 Dominate >2 Thaumaturgy >1 Academic Hunting Ground >1 University Hunting Ground >2 Blood Doll more? :) say, ... 4 total? >1 Haven Uncovered more? :) Well, OK. No room. >1 Mob Connections >1 Wasserschloss Anif, Austria Your predator will burn it. Do not bother. :) >1 Infernal Pact This actually isn't so bad with Dick in the crypt; if he turns into AUS DOM tha he's kind of nasty. Heinrick in the crypt would help too. >Minion (74 cards) >AUS: >6 Telepathic Tracking > >DOM: >12 Govern the Unaligned >4 Thoughts Betrayed First problem. A more effective style is to use Conditioning; it doesn't affect decks that intend to Deflect any differently, but for decks that CAN'T bounce and have to block, it makes them worry about every bleed of 1 from a Dominate vampire. However, I imagine you intend to use these Governs as pool gain, since there isn't much other pool gain in the deck. Maybe 8 Govern, 6 Conditioning? That way you can use most of your Governs as pool gain, and then you will have a number of Conditionings for the forward threat. TB is nice but expensive in this. >THA: >7 Apportation >8 Blood to Water Your guys will get NAILED for trying to use this card that many times. How about only 2-4 of them? I know the deck's idea is to actually burn guys, but keep in mind that the combat you have here looks like: Thoughts Betrayed (2), Theft (+2) while being punched (1), Apportation, BtW (2), Walk while being punched (1) - a cost of 4. Not that many of your guys can do this, and it requires superior THA or it turns into a cost of 5. Ouch. :( >8 Theft of Vitae More. Ditch the Soul Burns; Theft of Vitae is the #1 Tremere staple card, and one of the only real advantages they have in combat. 12x Theft of Vitae should do the trick and make sure you always have it in hand. >4 Soul Burn see above. >4 Walk of Flame >1 Burst of Sunlight > >COMBAT: >4 Ambush >5 Bum's Rush >3 Trap All basically fine, especially with the bruise/bleed angle; no need for more Rush actions. >REACTION: >3 Wake with Evening's Freshness You should have some room from the Blood to Water to include 4x Deflection here. :) >OTHER: >1 Charnas the Imp >1 Succubus >1 Talaq, The Immortal >1 Arson >1 Ankara Citadel, Turkey, The these seem fine. Talaq is a border case. But. OK. I usually run bruise/bleed with the Tremere as a very 'forward' looking affair. A bunch of little guys with dom/THA, they all come to bleed for 1 with Conditioning to back them up, and they drop a straight Trap/Theft/Walk sequence; sometimes they have maneuvers, sometimes they get IR Goggles. People go to torpor, sometimes they come back out, sometimes they S:CE, and sometimes MY guys die, but after awhile they quit blocking; the 1-then-Conditioning style forces them to block more than they have combat defense available. Sometimes I add bigger guys (Reverend, Kurt Strauss, Bryan van Duesen) and Governs, to try to offset the hideous cost, and I usually only include THA masters since big Dominate can be found easily on, well, big vamps. I add 8 Wakes and 8 Deflections to deal with bleed behind me, and sometimes I change that to 6 Deflections and 6 Spirit's Touch if I'm guessing the bleed environment will be light. Occasionally I will include Rushes instead, but Tremere rush is very painful; Spirit's Touch provides you a handy maneuver that you can always use. Thoughts Betrayed is cool, but requires a LOT bigger vamps and a LOT more Theft to pull off... and also requires maneuvers so you don't end up losing instead of gaining. Any Tremere combat should be able to operate starting at 4 blood on the vampire, and I have a deck that uses the huge-ass Tremere/!Tremere and Minion Taps them down to 3-4 as soon as they hit the table. They usually can reload back up to a consistent 6 or so, and if they ever fill all the way up, they can get Minion Tapped again. Blood to Water means close, and close gets your vampires whacked in the face with a steel girder, normally (especially with paying 2 blood for a prestrike card!); even though it normally burns a guy when played with Walk, it can really hurt. -- Derek Jack-Booted Thug of Atlanta "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." - C. Darwin, 1871

In article <%nVZ5.17697$g6.4...@news1.rdc1.il.home.com>, Kevin M. <kjme...@NOSPAMhome.com> writes >6 Telepathic Tracking You only have two minions with AUS and no Auspex cards. I'm inclined to tend towards more AUS for the combat continuing effect. -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D "It's hard to carry on when you feel all alone. Now I've swung back down again, it's worse than it was before. If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor." - James, "Sit Down"

In article <20001213204011...@ng-fr1.aol.com>, cur...@aol.com (Ian Lee) wrote: > >THA: > >7 Apportation > >8 Blood to Water > >8 Theft of Vitae > >4 Soul Burn > >4 Walk of Flame > >1 Burst of Sunlight > > I think Blood to Water is lame. You never, e-ever want to be at short range > with this sort of deck. I believe you are thinking of Cauldron of Blood. Blood to Water is played before range and is an excellent method of getting vampires down to zero blood to burn them with a Walk of Flame. Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown Jr. XZealot Archon of the Swamp Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

X_Ze...@email.msn.com wrote: > Blood to Water is > played before range and is an excellent method of getting vampires down > to zero blood to burn them with a Walk of Flame. Blood to Water is played after range, before strikes, only at close. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"Kevin M." <kjme...@NOSPAMhome.com> wrote in message news:%nVZ5.17697$g6.4...@news1.rdc1.il.home.com... > Well, all I can say is, I'd like the Tremere to work. :) It can happen. :) > -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- > > Deck Name: It's Been Tried Before...(Tremere BnB) > Created by: Kevin J. Mergen > Description: > A good mix of Camarilla and Sabbat Tremere, an effective cross-section of > the more brutal THA cards, Bum's Rushes and Ambushes for entering combat, > and enough Governs to make your prey(s) *have* to start blocking you. > > Crypt: (12 cards) [Min: 14, Max: 28, Avg: 5.08] > 1 Kij Dansky (AUS DOM obt THA, !Tremere, 8, Priscus) > 1 Astrid Thomas (aus DOM pot THA, Tremere, 7, Primogen) > 1 Muaziz (aus dom for THA, Tremere, 7) > 1 Reverend Blackwood (DOM obf THA, !Tremere, 6, Bishop) > 1 Kurt Strauss (aus DOM tha, !Tremere, 5) > 1 Merrill Molitor (aus dom THA, Tremere, 5) > 1 Sabine Lafitte (aus dom pot tha, Tremere, 5) > 1 Ignatius (aus dom tha, Tremere, 4) > 1 Richard Tauber (AUS tha, !Tremere, 4) > 1 Sarah Cobbler (dom THA, Tremere, 4) > 1 Blythe Candeleria (aus THA, Tremere, 3) > 1 Brooke (dom tha, !Tremere, 3) Not bad, but I'm not a big fan of Kij Dansky. I'd probably shoot for either Justine, Elder of Dallas, or perhaps Ulugh Beg. > LIBRARY: (85 cards) > Master (11 cards) > 1 Dominate > 2 Thaumaturgy > 1 Academic Hunting Ground > 1 University Hunting Ground > 2 Blood Doll > 1 Haven Uncovered > 1 Mob Connections > 1 Wasserschloss Anif, Austria > 1 Infernal Pact As James mentions, you need AUS, not just aus for Telepathic Tracking. Put in one or two skill cards. > Minion (74 cards) > AUS: > 6 Telepathic Tracking > > DOM: > 12 Govern the Unaligned > 4 Thoughts Betrayed I like it. GtU is *always* useful, whereas though Conditioning is nice, it doesn't pay for your minions. > THA: > 7 Apportation > 8 Blood to Water You will never, ever, never need 8 Blood to Water. I'd say 3 at most. You only need it versus the Gangrel or Ventrue to stop all those Skin of Steel. > 8 Theft of Vitae Put in a couple more of these, I'd say. > 4 Soul Burn These probably aren't worth it. > 4 Walk of Flame > 1 Burst of Sunlight I don't find Burst of Sunlight to be useful on its own, unless you're building combats around it. I probably wouldn't bother. > COMBAT: > 4 Ambush > 5 Bum's Rush > 3 Trap You don't need more than 2 or 3 rush actions...people should be blocking the GtUs. Replace them with more bleed or more combat or both. > REACTION: > 3 Wake with Evening's Freshness What are the Wakes for? I can't think of anything that you're going to need to wake for, unless you throw in Deflections. > OTHER: > 1 Charnas the Imp Useful, but chancy. > 1 Succubus Nice. > 1 Talaq, The Immortal Iffy. > 1 Arson > 1 Ankara Citadel, Turkey, The Both always good. I'd toss Talaq and Charnas for more space elsewhere, myself. And I'd increase the library to 90 cards...why not go all the way? Xian

>Crypt: (12 cards) [Min: 14, Max: 28, Avg: 5.08] >1 Kij Dansky (AUS DOM obt THA, !Tremere, 8, Priscus) I agree with what Xian said about replacing him with probably Justine. Also AUS DOM THA, only 1 vote but an excellent defender against the weenie hordes! >1 Sabine Lafitte (aus dom pot tha, Tremere, 5) Okay, just about everyone hates Sabine (5 cap with no superiors). But I still think she's somewhat decent. Anyway, her special helps cycle blood among your vampires... Ever notice what fluke of fate caused so many Tremere to have potence? Whenever the designers are figuring out what additional discipline to give a particular Tremere vampire, Potence seems to pop up quite consistently. In fact, I think it's the most populous out-of-clan discipline for them. A shame fortitude or celerity couldn't trade places with potence, eh? Anyway, you'd think that the Warlocks wouldn't place such a heavy importance on physical strength. >1 Wasserschloss Anif, Austria ????? In general, there is almost NEVER any reason to include Wasserschloss Anif in ANY Tremere deck. In just about every situation, you'd be SO MUCH better off with Arcane Library. The Library is so much better than Wasserschloss in so many ways! Both cost 2 pool. Every time you use Wasserschloss, it costs a blood from a Tremere you control (to transfer over the counter). And it's readily burnable by card text. I've only been able to come up with a few corner cases for using a Wasserschloss: #1. If other people in your playgroup actually play Tremere and you're worried about Arcane Library contesting (and you're willing to settle for an Arcane Library wannabe), you can use the Wasserschloss. #2. If you're playing a deck that focuses on bringing out lots of vampires, you might want to use both Arcane Library and Wasserschloss (since each is Unique). The overall benefit is that the Tremere essentially get two Arcane Library-ish cards (whereas Gangrel, !Brujah, and !Nosferatu have one, Assamite have a modified one, and everyone else has none!). So the W. will stack with the Library. #3. Intercept bait? Some cards like this one (along with Pere Lachaise) are simply DYING to get burnt. Let a few blood accumulate on the W. and eventually your predator or prey might try to burn the thing. #4. Um...Wasserschloss helps you empty your vampires? Helpful in a Vampiric Disease deck. Or maybe in some bizarre deck where you want to burn your own vampires (though there are lots of better ways to do this). #5. If you deck uses a decent amount of Tremere but also includes a healthy dose of other vampires, this might actually be better than Arcane Library, if you can protect it. If you have no Tremere in your uncontrolled area, the Arcane Library is wasted. There's nothing you can do since you can't use it. But at least with Wasserschloss, you can continue to add a blood to it each turn until you have the opportunity to and can get a Tremere into your uncontrolled area. So overall, ditch the Wasserschloss for an Arcane Library. =) Halcyan 2

In article <20001217062649...@ng-xb1.aol.com>, halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote: > Ever notice what fluke of fate caused so many Tremere to have > potence? Whenever the designers are figuring out what additional > discipline to give a particular Tremere vampire, Potence seems to pop > up quite consistently. In fact, I think it's the most populous out-of- > clan discipline for them. A shame fortitude or celerity couldn't > trade places with potence, eh? Potence is tied with Celerity for the most frequent out-of-clan discipline. I'm fine with potence being that frequent. It makes for an entertaining deck: http://www.waste.org/~xian/geek/jyhad/news/tremere1-1.html Basically, rush combat, Immortal Grapple, punch, auto-press to second round, and then B2W if necessary and Walk of Flame. The only problem is S:CE on secound round. Which could be handled by Thoughts Betrayed, but that's highly expensive, at that point. Xian -- But rain falls down and I feel cold A cold that sleeps within my heart It tears the earth and sun apart --New Order, "Shellshock" [ quoted text not captured ]

"Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> a écrit dans le message news: 20001217062649...@ng-xb1.aol.com... > >Crypt: (12 cards) [Min: 14, Max: 28, Avg: 5.08] > >1 Kij Dansky (AUS DOM obt THA, !Tremere, 8, Priscus) > > I agree with what Xian said about replacing him with probably Justine. Also AUS > DOM THA, only 1 vote but an excellent defender against the weenie hordes! Oh you haven't seen Kij Dansky ready with a Black metamorphosis !! Imagine : thoughts betrayed, Shotgun Ritual, Drain Essence, additional, Drain essence, and a nice press to continue... Bye bye, little justicar, damage prevention couldn't help you...