[Rules Q] Special ability of Lord Ashton

Hi all, regarding the special ability of Lord Ashton we had a question on our Prerelease yesterday. Lacking the exact card text, I cite the text as it was spoiled here in the group some days ago, which is a good approximation of what I remember from yesterday: Lord Ashton: 5, ANI pro for, Gangrel Independent Any other gangrel can perform a +1 stealth action to search through his own library for a master: discipline of ANI FOR PRO. Put that card on the acting vampire. What happens, when a Gangrel already has all three disciplines at superior? Can she then take the action nonetheless, even when it is clear that she cannot find an eligible card? Further, to make the idea behind this cler: In the case when the acting Gangrel _does_ have one discipline at inferior, so clearly is allowed to take the action, but another dicipline at superior: Can a master: discipline card be retrieved from the library for the discipline already at superior? What happens in this case with the card? The player yesterday had the idea that this could be a quite useful way to weed unnecessary discipline cards from the library, reasoning that you could search for a discipline card, then see that it could not be placed on the acting vampire (ideally, because he already has ecverything at superior), so had to go to the ash heap... After a night's sleep, I tend to think that only allowed master: discipline cards can be retrieved from the library, so the trick described above would not work... Best regards, Hardy Range Prince of Bochum, Germany http://www.vekn.de

Hardy Range wrote: > Hi all, > > regarding the special ability of Lord Ashton we had a question on our > Prerelease yesterday. > > Lacking the exact card text, I cite the text as it was spoiled here in > the group some days ago, which is a good approximation of what I > remember from yesterday: > > Lord Ashton: 5, ANI pro for, Gangrel Independent > Any other gangrel can perform a +1 stealth action to search through > his own library for a master: discipline of ANI FOR PRO. Put that card > on the acting vampire. > > What happens, when a Gangrel already has all three disciplines at > superior? He can't put the card on himself (card text on the discipline card). > Can she then take the action nonetheless, even when it is clear that > she cannot find an eligible card? No. > Further, to make the idea behind this cler: > In the case when the acting Gangrel _does_ have one discipline at > inferior, so clearly is allowed to take the action, but another > dicipline at superior: > Can a master: discipline card be retrieved from the library for the > discipline already at superior? No. In this case, the search (for one of the non-superior Discipline cards) fails and no card is retrieved. > What happens in this case with the card? Moot. > The player yesterday had the idea that this could be a quite useful > way to weed unnecessary discipline cards from the library, reasoning > that you could search for a discipline card, then see that it could > not be placed on the acting vampire (ideally, because he already has > ecverything at superior), so had to go to the ash heap... > > After a night's sleep, I tend to think that only allowed master: > discipline cards can be retrieved from the library, so the trick > described above would not work... Correct. If it wasn't "search" but, like Vast Wealth, "grab the first master: D" you find in your library working down, then, as with Vast Wealth, the illegal card would be retrieved and burned (with no other cost or effect). But it's not. Similarly, A vampire with a Sport Bike cannot use Magic of the Smith to fish out a Hawg (just to discard the Hawg from the library). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3EC8D2B...@white-wolf.com>... > Hardy Range wrote: > > > > Lord Ashton: 5, ANI pro for, Gangrel Independent > > Any other gangrel can perform a +1 stealth action to search through > > his own library for a master: discipline of ANI FOR PRO. Put that card > > on the acting vampire. > > > > What happens, when a Gangrel already has all three disciplines at > > superior? > > He can't put the card on himself (card text on the discipline card). > Related q? What happens when someone with MTH uses the superior version of absorb the mind (IIRC) to steal a master dis card from another vamp but they already have this dis at superior? Does he keep the card and gain +1 capacity, or is the card burned, or does it remain on the target? T

In article <76d1d5ef.03052...@posting.google.com>, Talonz <talo...@hotmail.com> wrote: >Related q? > >What happens when someone with MTH uses the superior version of absorb >the mind (IIRC) to steal a master dis card from another vamp but they >already have this dis at superior? Does he keep the card and gain +1 >capacity, or is the card burned, or does it remain on the target? It works in the same way as Lucian equipped with a Vehicle attempting to steal another Vehicle as a strike. The strike is invalid and may not be declared, as the result (vampire with DOM gaining a dom skill card, vampire with a vehicle gaining another vehicle) is illegal. see also groups.google.com search 'author:LSJ lucian steal vehicle' for the precedent ruling. Or, more germanely, 'author:LSJ "Absorb the mind"', which answers this precise question. gomi -- Individually, I love you all with affection unspeakable; but, collectively, I look upon you with a disgust that amounts to absolute detestation. - Gilbert and Sullivan, 'Pirates of Penzance'

go...@panix.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote in message news:<bafcmc$iup$1...@panix2.panix.com>... > It works in the same way as Lucian equipped with a Vehicle attempting > to steal another Vehicle as a strike. The strike is invalid and may > not be declared, as the result (vampire with DOM gaining a dom skill > card, vampire with a vehicle gaining another vehicle) is illegal. > > see also groups.google.com search 'author:LSJ lucian steal vehicle' > for the precedent ruling. > > Or, more germanely, 'author:LSJ "Absorb the mind"', which answers this > precise question. > Interesting ruling that, thanks for the reference. Intersting because disallowing a 'stolen vehicle' when a minion cannot have more than one vehicle by the rules seems clear, but is not a good comparison for the skill card. You cannot 'play' a skill card if they have sup, but there is no restriction on having the same skill card twice or more if you had inferior/sup already. This may seem like semantics but it is a distinction. I would rather see the stolen skill card be burnt when stolen if the kiasyd had superior already basically. T

In message <76d1d5ef.03052...@posting.google.com>, Talonz <talo...@hotmail.com> writes: >Intersting because disallowing a 'stolen vehicle' when a minion cannot >have more than one vehicle by the rules seems clear By card text, not rules. >, but is not a good >comparison for the skill card. Sure it is. You did read the official card text, didn't you? "Cannot be <placed> on a vampire with superior Animalism." -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D Lucky that my breasts are small and humble, EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 So you don't confuse them with mountains. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D

James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:<3254xpXN...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk>... > In message <76d1d5ef.03052...@posting.google.com>, Talonz > <talo...@hotmail.com> writes: > >Intersting because disallowing a 'stolen vehicle' when a minion cannot > >have more than one vehicle by the rules seems clear > >, but is not a good comparison for the skill card. > > Sure it is. It isn't because you cannot have more than one vehicle, but the [previous, see below] limit on skill cards was only that you could not play a skill card on a vamp with superior. > You did read the official card text, didn't you? > > "Cannot be <placed> on a vampire with superior Animalism." Silly me. I assumed that a CE skill card would be uptodate. I forgot that we were discussing "Vampire: the eternal erratta". T