Spring 09 Storyline Announced

http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=news&articleid=1071 Rise of the Imperator! -- Oscar J Garza III Organized Play Coordinator CCP|White Wolf

OrgPlay wrote: > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=news&articleid=1071 > > Rise of the Imperator! > Dates? best - chris

On Mar 3, 5:10 pm, OrgPlay <orgp...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=news&articleid=1071 > > Rise of the Imperator! > The full rules and introductory fiction now on-line. Intro: http://www.vtesstorylines.com/PDFs/Imperator_Intro.pdf Rules: http://www.vtesstorylines.com/Pdfs/Imperator_Rules.pdf This event will run in April, May, and June 2009. Watch for storyline updates and event standings at www.vtesstorylines.com. -Ben Swainbank V:tes Storyline Coordinator http://www.vtesstorylines.com/

Appolonius for Imperator!

Obtenebration <obtene...@obtenebration.org> wrote: > Appolonius for Imperator! Rabbat for Imperator!

The Rules Are Up..... www.vtesstorylines.com

On Mar 6, 10:34 am, vtesst...@white-wolf.com wrote: > > > Rise of the Imperator! > > The full rules and introductory fiction now on-line. > > Intro:http://www.vtesstorylines.com/PDFs/Imperator_Intro.pdf > Rules:http://www.vtesstorylines.com/Pdfs/Imperator_Rules.pdf > Ouch, seems very restrictive. I'm having trouble coming up with a good deck idea that hasn't already been done to death. Was thinking it might be fun to play Sabbat in this, but there doesn't seem to be a good way to do that. 3 titled Sabbats with umm... the Sabbat version of Closed Session (forget the name) would be fun, but having 9 Cam vamps in the deck and Into the Fire doesn't transform them into Anti- clan members makes it too difficult, IMHO. Advanced Marcus with Embraces might work, since you could have 4 or 5 non-advanced in the deck and use Epiphany, but that doesn't seem like all that much fun either. Nor does it seem that good. With 6 clans, even with 5 groups to choose from, I can see some major contesting at a lot of tables. And each clan seems like it will be locked into a few archetypes if they want to be competitive with no appreciable outside-clan help. I wish Gangrel would have been playable, if only to have a 7th clan. Settites and Assamites could conceivably be imagined as joining the Camarilla as well, but also unplayable. Still, seems like an interesting format, I'll just have to think harder to come up with something creative to play.

From the "Storyline: Rise of the Imperator" Rules: "The Gangrel are not a playable clan in this Storyline. Any winning player may nominate Karsh as Imperator, regardless of the clan he or she played." "The Imperator will be the vampire, from the winning clan, that was most often selected as Imperator. If there is a tie, the title will go to the vampire with the highest capacity. If a further tie-breaker is required, the choice will be subject to the combined will of the World's Methuselahs (an online poll)." So people are allowed to choose Karsh, but he will NEVER be the Imperator because the Gangrel will never be the winning clan. Do not bother about nominating Karsh. This is a bit of speculation, but probably the chosen vampire from the winning clan will get an advanced version, which is (or via merging can become) an Imperator. The Imperator will probably have three votes. Will it be usefull to nominate a vampire that already has an advanced version (e.g. Lazarus)? When an Inner Circle member wins, it looks like the advanced version will loose a vote (an Imperator has only three votes). It seems to me that the best nomination is a vampire from your clan with a high cap, without any votes (e.g. Gracetius, Gerald Windham or The Ankou). Still I think it is too bad that it is a Camarilla only party. H

On Mar 8, 8:54 am, Chlo...@xs4all.nl wrote: > From the "Storyline: Rise of the Imperator" Rules: > > "The Gangrel are not a playable clan in this Storyline. Any winning > player may nominate Karsh as Imperator, regardless of the clan he or > she played." > > > So people are allowed to choose Karsh, but he will NEVER be the > Imperator because the Gangrel will never be the winning clan. Do not > bother about nominating Karsh. > To clarify: Karsh nominations will be recorded as wins for his clan-- Gangrel. They don't count as wins for whatever clan was actually played. If Karsh has more nominations than any other clan's total wins he'll be selected as Imperator, [ quoted text not captured ]

Chl...@xs4all.nl wrote: > This is a bit of speculation, but probably the chosen vampire from the > winning clan will get an advanced version, which is (or via merging > can become) an Imperator. The Imperator will probably have three > votes. > Will it be usefull to nominate a vampire that already has an advanced > version (e.g. Lazarus)? I'm sure that if the winning vampire already has an advanced version (or already _is_ an advanced version -- i.e. if Reverend Adams wins the Imperator seat for the Ventrue), the prize will be different. The game can't currently support multiple Advancements for the same vampire. But maybe the rules will change to accomodate this. Other games have done similar things, like Doomtown. > When an Inner Circle member wins, it looks like the advanced version > will loose^H^H^H^H^Hlose a vote (an Imperator has only three votes). Imperator can also play the Blood Hunt card, which IC members can't. But yeah, not the greatest advantage. We'll see. > It seems to me that the best nomination is a vampire from your clan > with a high cap, without any votes (e.g. Gracetius, Gerald Windham or > The Ankou). Please take note. The best nominations are: Brujah: Dre, Leader of the Cold Dawn Malkavian: Dr. Jest Nosferatu: Rabbat Toreador: Dieter Kleist, or Dorian Strack, depending on whether you prefer books or music.* Tremere: Miguel Cordovera Ventrue: Nakova, Advocate of Golconda * Note that if Blood Hunt gets updated card text to say "Requires a Prince, Justicar or Imperator", Vidal Jarbeaux can also play it once per game. It is a bit of an unfair advantage for Karsh to be able to be nominated regardless. Nergal won the Nergal Storyline because he was always in the finals, so statistically would be a popular choice. I am kind of under the impression that Karsh will have a similar artificially-inflated vote. It is also unfortunate that you can not play "for the Caitiff", as the obviously best choice for Imperator in the entire game is Dirk.

Jozxyqk <jfeu...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: > * Note that if Blood Hunt gets updated card text to say "Requires a > Prince, Justicar or Imperator", Vidal Jarbeaux can also play it once > per game. Sorry, this was an incomplete thought (and stupid anyway). I meant to say, if the requirements are updated to say that the Imperator can play the card from the ash heap, in BH's card text itself rather than as a part of the title, then Vidal _might_ be able to also play it from the ash heap, depending on a ruling from LSJ.

Jozxyqk <jfeu...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: >Please take note. The best nominations are: ... >Malkavian: Dr. Jest Scandalous lies. Watenda is clearly The Man. Or Dancin' Dana, who is possibly the man or maybe the woman. >It is a bit of an unfair advantage for Karsh to be able to be >nominated regardless. Nergal won the Nergal Storyline because >he was always in the finals, so statistically would be a >popular choice. I am kind of under the impression that Karsh >will have a similar artificially-inflated vote. I think that's unlikely to be the case here in the same way. Nergal won the Nergal Storyline because he was always played in the final, and the player playing him couldn't do anything to help the Nagaraja win it when they had to give up their Nagaraja deck or, indeed, *chose* to give up their Nagaraja deck. Here, all players will be playing towards their clan, and it seems to me that quite a lot of players will come to the event already having a good idea of who they want to nominate (and hence have chosen that clan). If at the end of the Nergal final, the player could have chosen "Nergal or your original clan", I think Nergal would probably have done much worse. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

...Let's party like it's 1994, baby! Even though you won't let the Gangrel in the door. Jerks. -D

On Mar 8, 11:17 am, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: > Chlo...@xs4all.nl wrote: > > Will it be usefull to nominate a vampire that already has an advanced > > version (e.g. Lazarus)? > > I'm sure that if the winning vampire already has an advanced version > (or already _is_ an advanced version -- i.e. if Reverend Adams wins > the Imperator seat for the Ventrue), the prize will be different. The > game can't currently support multiple Advancements for the same vampire. > But maybe the rules will change to accomodate this. Other games have > done similar things, like Doomtown. Actually, the game already handles multiple advanced versions perfectly. Vampires already contest by name, so three vampires with the same name work as well as two. And you can only merge advanced onto the base (or vice-versa) so there's no problem with merging advanced onto advanced or anything onto a merged version... those things are already not in the rules. And since there's no way to merge advanced onto advanced, you don't have to worry about conflicting stats... the standard rule of "advanced overrides base" handles everything. Of course if what you want three tiers (base, advanced, "exalted") you'd need to change the rules. But as things stand, having two advanced vampires with the same name would provide two different and independent merging options for decks and no real problems. > It is also unfortunate that you can not play "for the Caitiff", > as the obviously best choice for Imperator in the entire game is Dirk. I think Smudge would be better. Or Mr. Anarch Convert. Brent Ross

bwr...@mail.com wrote: > On Mar 8, 11:17 am, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: > > Chlo...@xs4all.nl wrote: > > > Will it be usefull to nominate a vampire that already has an advanced > > > version (e.g. Lazarus)? > > > > I'm sure that if the winning vampire already has an advanced version > > (or already _is_ an advanced version -- i.e. if Reverend Adams wins > > the Imperator seat for the Ventrue), the prize will be different. The > > game can't currently support multiple Advancements for the same vampire. > > But maybe the rules will change to accomodate this. Other games have > > done similar things, like Doomtown. > Actually, the game already handles multiple advanced versions > perfectly. Vampires already contest by name, so three vampires with > the same name work as well as two.... But two vampires in the CSV named "Theo Bell (Advanced)" would cause problems. There would need to be a new name for such a thing, like the extremely creative "Advanced 2".

[ quoted text not captured ] The winning player also gets to choose a "key minion", who was in their deck and was instrumental in helping them win the tournament. (Or, in extremis, a minion who was in someone else's deck who was instrumental.) This does not have to be a Camarilla minion, or a vampire. So you could happily play an Anarch Convert deck, win, and name him as your key minion. (Note that this is in addition to naming a vampire from their clan - or Karsh - to be Imperator.) [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Well, no you cannot play an anarch convert deck, as anarch convert and/ or Caitiff is not one of the 6 Cam clans. You could play a deck with 25% Anarch Convert crypt, but not a deck based solely on him ./nitpick

Blooded Sand <sand...@gmail.com> wrote: >Well, no you cannot play an anarch convert deck, as anarch convert and/ >or Caitiff is not one of the 6 Cam clans. You could play a deck with >25% Anarch Convert crypt, but not a deck based solely on him Because yes, it's oh-so-likely that someone would put 12 of them in a 12 card deck. That's gonna win for sure! Meanwhile, for those who aren't mentally subnormal, they can still name him as key minion, even without 12 in a deck. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Mar 9, 12:56 am, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > bwr...@mail.com wrote: > >On Mar 8, 11:17 am, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: > >> It is also unfortunate that you can not play "for the Caitiff", > >> as the obviously best choice for Imperator in the entire game is Dirk. > > >I think Smudge would be better. Or Mr. Anarch Convert. > > The winning player also gets to choose a "key minion", who was in their > deck and was instrumental in helping them win the tournament. (Or, in > extremis, a minion who was in someone else's deck who was instrumental.) > > This does not have to be a Camarilla minion, or a vampire. So you could > happily play an Anarch Convert deck, win, and name him as your key > minion. > > (Note that this is in addition to naming a vampire from their clan - or > Karsh - to be Imperator.) Reporting Rules state that the chosen vampire must be from your winning clan (except for the ability to nominate Karsh). Though you do not have to have played them in your deck to nominate. But really, what's with everyone trying to subvert the intent of the storyline? We've had 4+ years of Sabbat and non-Camarilla (depending on how much you want to consider KMW as a Camarilla set), and now we finally get something for Camarilla, and everyone wants to still play Sabbat and Anarchs? I for one am excited to actually play the Camarilla, after being pretty disappointed with the Anarch and Alastor tournament. My only difficulty is in choosing the clan and who I want chosen for Imperator. Chris, Thrall of Arika

Thrall of Arika <christoph...@amec.com> wrote: > My only difficulty is in choosing the clan and who I want > chosen for Imperator. > Chris, Thrall of Arika Um... are you sure it's that difficult, THRALL OF ARIKA?

Thrall of Arika <christoph...@amec.com> wrote: >On Mar 9, 12:56 am, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: >> The winning player also gets to choose a "key minion", who was in their >> deck and was instrumental in helping them win the tournament. (Or, in >> extremis, a minion who was in someone else's deck who was instrumental.) >> >> This does not have to be a Camarilla minion, or a vampire. So you could >> happily play an Anarch Convert deck, win, and name him as your key >> minion. >> >> (Note that this is in addition to naming a vampire from their clan - or >> Karsh - to be Imperator.) > >Reporting Rules state that the chosen vampire must be from your >winning clan (except for the ability to nominate Karsh). Though you do >not have to have played them in your deck to nominate. Erm, key minion is IN ADDITION TO naming a vampire to be Imperator. You report: - Winning clan - Vampire chosen (by winner) to be Imperator from their clan, or Karsh - Key minion (chosen by winner) which does not have to be a vampire, or Camarilla. e.g. Jake Washington, Anarch Convert, Dirk, Mata Hari and Maman Boumba are all legitimate choices for key minion, assuming they were key in helping you win the tournament. They should be a card you've actually played, unless something freakish happened involving another player. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Mar 9, 11:25 am, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: > Thrall of Arika <christopher.ack...@amec.com> wrote: > > > My only difficulty is in choosing the clan and who I want > > chosen for Imperator. > > Chris, Thrall of Arika > > Um... are you sure it's that difficult, THRALL OF ARIKA? Arika's will works in mysterious ways ... I just heed the voice. Perhaps she does not want a rival to gain so much power within her own clan, and would rather have someone who's strings she can pull from another. Who am I to question? Chris, Thrall of Arika

On Mar 9, 11:35 am, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > Thrall of Arika <christopher.ack...@amec.com> wrote: > > >On Mar 9, 12:56 am, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > >> The winning player also gets to choose a "key minion", who was in their > >> deck and was instrumental in helping them win the tournament. (Or, in > >> extremis, a minion who was in someone else's deck who was instrumental.) > > >> This does not have to be a Camarilla minion, or a vampire. So you could > >> happily play an Anarch Convert deck, win, and name him as your key > >> minion. > > >> (Note that this is in addition to naming a vampire from their clan - or > >> Karsh - to be Imperator.) > > >Reporting Rules state that the chosen vampire must be from your > >winning clan (except for the ability to nominate Karsh). Though you do > >not have to have played them in your deck to nominate. > > Erm, key minion is IN ADDITION TO naming a vampire to be Imperator. > > You report: > > - Winning clan > - Vampire chosen (by winner) to be Imperator from their clan, or Karsh > - Key minion (chosen by winner) which does not have to be a vampire, or > Camarilla. e.g. Jake Washington, Anarch Convert, Dirk, Mata Hari and > Maman Boumba are all legitimate choices for key minion, assuming they > were key in helping you win the tournament. They should be a card > you've actually played, unless something freakish happened involving > another player. Ah, fair enough. I did notice the separate "Key Minion" spot on the reporting list as I was formatting text to send out to the local group regarding the tournament. I just assumed the discussion was in nominating the Imperator. But I'm not seeing anything in regards to choosing the key minion beyond that. Perhaps a secondary card to represent the minion's efforts on behalf of the new Imperator? And wow .. finally a use for all those Clan Hoser cards ... well, at least some of them. Chris, Thrall of Arika

On Mar 9, 1:47 pm, Thrall of Arika <christopher.ack...@amec.com> [ quoted text not captured ] Yeah, I'm thinking about maybe bulding an Anson Malk Demetia deck with Kindred Spirits in it... would be funny at least.

A question in regards to creating the Imperator Deck. Could it be allowed to let players each build an Imperator Deck (ID) to bring to the tournament, then have IDs randomly chosen for each table? Not as an official part of the rules, but if sanctioned by the organizer/prince for their local group? If there's a question of trust, the organizer could always review the IDs before use to determine if they're in the spirit of design. Just think it would be fun to put together one myself, and actually have a lot of cards I own used, even if against me *grins* Chris, Thrall of Arika

Thrall of Arika <christoph...@amec.com> wrote: >Ah, fair enough. I did notice the separate "Key Minion" spot on the >reporting list as I was formatting text to send out to the local group >regarding the tournament. I just assumed the discussion was in >nominating the Imperator. But I'm not seeing anything in regards to >choosing the key minion beyond that. Perhaps a secondary card to >represent the minion's efforts on behalf of the new Imperator? Based on previous discussions, if something interesting or useful or funny can be concocted involving things other than the winner, the Storyline Coordinator and the Design Team will see what they can do. They're also asking for amusing, silly, clever, or whatever else anecdotes. I imagine some quotes might be used as flavour text later (as has happened before) if they're any good, or others might be used to spice up a card. e.g. a burn clause on a new card, or things like that - nice bonuses, not key strategies. [ quoted text not captured ]

vtes...@white-wolf.com schrieb: [ quoted text not captured ] • At least 75% (e.g., 9 out of 12) of the vampires in a player's crypt must be the same clan. Only the core Camarilla clans (Brujah, Toreador, Tremere, Ventrue, Malkavian, or Nosferatu) may be chosen as clans. Gangrel may not be chosen as a clan as they are no longer Camarilla. There are no special restrictions on the remaining crypt minions. ---- So a crypt of 12 Imbued is fine since (0 >= 0.75 * 0) is true?

On Mar 8, 10:00 pm, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: > bwr...@mail.com wrote: > > Actually, the game already handles multiple advanced versions > > perfectly. Vampires already contest by name, so three vampires with > > the same name work as well as two.... > > But two vampires in the CSV named "Theo Bell (Advanced)" would cause > problems. There would need to be a new name for such a thing, like the > extremely creative "Advanced 2". Yeah, but that's a database problem, not a game problem... and it's one that already exists. The name is "Theo Bell" for all versions of him, the added bit isn't part of the name but is used only for record keeping. In my local database I use "{adv}" because it's unlikely that a name will ever use braces, whereas there are names with parentheses. So, yeah, you'd need to expand the ways to distinguish versions... but since it's extremely unlikely that two advanced versions of the same vampire will ever be in the same set, you could just add that for distinction to the vampires that need it (ie "Theo Bell (Advanced- Gehenna)") or in the case of storyline promos a reference to that (ie "Theo Bell (Advanced-Imperator)"). Brent Ross

[ quoted text not captured ] Was it just me who noticed the Brujah Frenzy & Nosferatu Putrescence in the deck that is not supposed to have "Clan Hosers"? I would have thought those two cards would qualify since they specifically target clans... anywho. But I do like this one, the question will be... what clan to play... Tremere? Brujah? Nosferatu? Although I am expecting to see a giant pile of 2nd Trad walls around... and a lot of static votes on tables... I

On Mar 9, 5:49 pm, Juggernaut1981 <brasscompo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Was it just me who noticed the Brujah Frenzy & Nosferatu Putrescence > in the deck that is not supposed to have "Clan Hosers"? I would have > thought those two cards would qualify since they specifically target > clans... anywho. the Imperator deck *should* have clan hosers. it should *not* have cards that only one clan or discipline can play.

On Mar 9, 4:42 pm, Johannes Walch <johannes.wa...@vekn.de> wrote: > vtesst...@white-wolf.com schrieb: > > > > > > > On Mar 3, 5:10 pm, OrgPlay <orgp...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > >>http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=news&articleid=1071 > > >> Rise of the Imperator! > > > The full rules and introductory fiction now on-line. > > > Intro:http://www.vtesstorylines.com/PDFs/Imperator_Intro.pdf > > Rules:http://www.vtesstorylines.com/Pdfs/Imperator_Rules.pdf > > > This event will run in April, May, and June 2009. > > > Watch for storyline updates and event standings atwww.vtesstorylines.com. > > > -Ben Swainbank > > V:tes Storyline Coordinator > >http://www.vtesstorylines.com/ > > • At least 75% (e.g., 9 out of 12) of the vampires in a > player's crypt must be the same clan. > > So a crypt of 12 Imbued is fine since (0 >= 0.75 * 0) is true?- Hide quoted text - > Cute. But no. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Mar 9, 3:03 pm, Thrall of Arika <christopher.ack...@amec.com> wrote: > A question in regards to creating the Imperator Deck. > > Could it be allowed to let players each build an Imperator Deck (ID) > to bring to the tournament, then have IDs randomly chosen for each > table? You can enlist the players to help design and build the Impertor decks. The event format is vulnerable to being ruined by an unfair or ill- considered Imperator deck. The organizer should insure that the decks are fair to all clans and in spirit of the event. What measures you take to insure this are up to you. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Mar 10, 8:27 am, vtesst...@white-wolf.com wrote: > > You can enlist the players to help design and build the Impertor > decks. > > The event format is vulnerable to being ruined by an unfair or ill- > considered Imperator deck. The organizer should insure that the decks > are fair to all clans and in spirit of the event. What measures you > take to insure this are up to you. > I think the Imperator deck should consist of nothing but Malkavian Demetia. *crosses fingers*

On 6 Mar, 16:34, vtesst...@white-wolf.com wrote: > On Mar 3, 5:10 pm, OrgPlay <orgp...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > >http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=news&articleid=1071 > > > Rise of the Imperator! > > The full rules and introductory fiction now on-line. > > Intro:http://www.vtesstorylines.com/PDFs/Imperator_Intro.pdf > Rules:http://www.vtesstorylines.com/Pdfs/Imperator_Rules.pdf > > This event will run in April, May, and June 2009. > > Watch for storyline updates and event standings atwww.vtesstorylines.com. > > -Ben Swainbank > V:tes Storyline Coordinatorhttp://www.vtesstorylines.com/ Ben, do you guys want to create a set of storylines that go against the VtM cannon? Because that's what's happening right now. I don't wanna be a party pooper, but your story goes against well established VtM facts. Of course you can claim that's your objective all along, but there is so much still to do without breaking the Vampire story that brought many of us to this game. I'm sorry if this is pointless discussion, but I feel that the story is an important part of the game, as is the art, the rules, etc. Cheers, Tiago Brum

On Mar 10, 7:31 pm, Brum <tiago.br...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 6 Mar, 16:34, vtesst...@white-wolf.com wrote: > > > > > On Mar 3, 5:10 pm, OrgPlay <orgp...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > > >http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=news&articleid=1071 > > > > Rise of the Imperator! > > > The full rules and introductory fiction now on-line. > > > Intro:http://www.vtesstorylines.com/PDFs/Imperator_Intro.pdf > > Rules:http://www.vtesstorylines.com/Pdfs/Imperator_Rules.pdf > > > This event will run in April, May, and June 2009. > > > Watch for storyline updates and event standings atwww.vtesstorylines.com. > > > -Ben Swainbank > > V:tes Storyline Coordinatorhttp://www.vtesstorylines.com/ > > Ben, do you guys want to create a set of storylines that go against > the VtM cannon? Because that's what's happening right now. > I don't wanna be a party pooper, but your story goes against well > established VtM facts. > V:TES is the only cannon since WW retired V:TM. Not that V:TM didn't contradict itself a number of times anyway.

On Mar 10, 8:31 pm, Brum <tiago.br...@gmail.com> wrote: > Ben, do you guys want to create a set of storylines that go against > the VtM cannon? Because that's what's happening right now. > I don't wanna be a party pooper, but your story goes against well > established VtM facts. What are these established VTM facts? I mean, I'm not saying you are wrong, but I certainly don't know what they are (I don't play VTM, I'm completely unconcerned with how VTES interacts with the VTM storyline, but I'm curious what makes you say this). > Of course you can claim that's your objective all along, but there is > so much still to do without breaking the Vampire story that brought > many of us to this game. How does having a storyline to elect a new Imperator (whatever that is) breaking the VtM story? > I'm sorry if this is pointless discussion, but I feel that the story > is an important part of the game, as is the art, the rules, etc. Sure. But VTES and VtM diverge often (was there ever a Nosferatu Justicar named Sheldon Lord of the Clog?) -Peter

[ quoted text not captured ] Peter, the more important question is... Was Sheldon the lord of some location called Clog... or was he the lord of wooden shoes like some form of Dutch Nosferatu Riverdance Lord of the Dance leader? Was there traditional dance involved in Sheldon's rise to power? Did he manipulate the vast armies of rats at his disposal via interpretive dance? Is there a secret special dance that must be performed to become a Justicar (of which Sheldon clearly does in dutch wooden shoes, but Anastasz diZagreb clearly proved to be incompetant at and was subsequently ridiculed by the "real justicars")??? Where is this in the VtM books or Clan Novels? I must know!!!! Or I could just have fun with the VTES cards and storyline and not give a crap... but that involves fewer shoes (excluding cases of thrown horseshoes)

On Mar 10, 9:59 pm, Juggernaut1981 <brasscompo...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 11, 12:05 pm, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > > Sure. But VTES and VtM diverge often (was there ever a Nosferatu > > Justicar named Sheldon Lord of the Clog?) > > Peter, the more important question is... > > Was Sheldon the lord of some location called Clog... or was he the > lord of wooden shoes like some form of Dutch Nosferatu Riverdance Lord > of the Dance leader? Or it could be that he got his name from his ability to control the sewers... by backing up raw sewage into every Sabbat haven in the city, forcing the vampires out (because of their highly sensitive sense of smell) into ambushes at dawn (he does have fortitude). Brent Ross

On Mar 10, 9:59 pm, Juggernaut1981 <brasscompo...@gmail.com> wrote: > Peter, the more important question is... > > Was Sheldon the lord of some location called Clog... Oh, Sheldon, Lord of the Clog Dance. -Peter

On Mar 10, 8:31 pm, Brum <tiago.br...@gmail.com> wrote: > your story goes against well established VtM facts. Can you be more specific? > I feel that the story > is an important part of the game, as is the art, the rules, etc. > I agree. VTES Storylines are about introducing new stories in the VTES setting, the Classic World of Darkness. They are built upon the existing source materials, RPG books, and prior VTES Storylines. The storylines establish something significant going on the world, and allow the Methuselahs to influence those events. WoD characters will be involved in changing the course of events, and will themselves be changed by the events of the story. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] As former Dutch Nosferatu Prince, let me tell you: Wooden shoes are involved. But it's more like a Dikedance than a Riverdance. KR, Tobias

Ok, there are 2 diferent things that are being put in the same bag: 1- The existense of non-canon characters. Easely solved: there's a hole of 500 years between timelines. Your example, Sheldon, could be from that hole. He can even exist in modern days and still have some status within the clan or sect. Sheldon can even think Pedrodon or Cock Robin are doing a lowsy job and contest their job. Same as Anneke. Arika can be some really old methuselah in disguise, and for centuries manipulate Hardestadt as a puppet, like Kemintiri did Lucinde. This contradicts in nothing the VtM cannon. It merely adds to it. 2- Things that contradict the timeline. Example: Monçada died after Pedrodon. In fact, much of the whole story (VtES and VtM) around the Eye of Hazimel and the war in the East Coast had to do with Pedrodon's Final Death. This point I think should be avoidable. I don't mean to be a pain in the a$$, but nobody can say that VtES lore has nothing to do with VtM lore. The ADV vampires come from the RPG cannon, per example. Other changes might fall on the blank between 2000 and 2004 (end of the world), like the new Princes in some American cities. I just felt that this could be an interesting discussion, because lots of BYOS are popping up and I wonder if other people care about this subject. Specially the WW/CPP folks. Again, I stress that this is an integral part of the hobby, as is the art, for example. Sure, people don't need to care about it. But the builders of the game do. KoT is great because I think WW thought all these things, IMO. Wasn't LSJ that asked about information on VtM cannon characters? On 11 Mar, 01:05, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > On Mar 10, 8:31 pm, Brum <tiago.br...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Ben, do you guys want to create a set of storylines that go against > > the VtM cannon? Because that's what's happening right now. > > I don't wanna be a party pooper, but your story goes against well > > established VtM facts. > > What are these established VTM facts? I mean, I'm not saying you are > wrong, but I certainly don't know what they are (I don't play VTM, I'm > completely unconcerned with how VTES interacts with the VTM storyline, > but I'm curious what makes you say this). opps. It's above. Got you an examble > > Of course you can claim that's your objective all along, but there is > > so much still to do without breaking the Vampire story that brought > > many of us to this game. > > How does having a storyline to elect a new Imperator (whatever that > is) breaking the VtM story? In nothing. There was never such a spot in the Camarilla and it would bring a huge amount of political problems and division, but there can be one. The closest thing to an Imperator has always been Hardestadt. > > I'm sorry if this is pointless discussion, but I feel that the story > > is an important part of the game, as is the art, the rules, etc. > > Sure. But VTES and VtM diverge often (was there ever a Nosferatu > Justicar named Sheldon Lord of the Clog?) > > -Peter There is no knowledge about many Justicars and archons in between Dark Ages and the 20th Century. Cheers, Tiago

On Mar 11, 12:22 pm, Brum <tiago.br...@gmail.com> wrote: > 2- Things that contradict the timeline. Example: Monçada died after > Pedrodon. In fact, much of the whole story (VtES and VtM) around the > Eye of Hazimel and the war in the East Coast had to do with Pedrodon's > Final Death. > This point I think should be avoidable. How, in VTES, does one represent the idea that Moncada died after Petrodon? Nothing in VTES has anything to do with whether or not someone is dead or alive or in what order one dies. You can play Moncada in games with Petrodon. You can play Moncada in games and have him get burned while Petrodon is still alive. > I don't mean to be a pain in the a$$, but nobody can say that VtES > lore has nothing to do with VtM lore. The ADV vampires come from the > RPG cannon, per example. Sure. But you can't be stapled to it, as card games work differently than RPGs. It is great to base cards on characters and events from VTM. But you can't in any realistic way make the CCG follow the storyline exactly. 'Cause CCGs don't work that way. If you could, please explain how the Rise of the Imperator storyline tournament is breaking the VtM storyline? Really. I don't know the story. -Peter

Brum wrote: > Wasn't [it] LSJ that asked about information on VtM cannon characters? I don't think so. I've got a slew of info on canon characters. I have recently asked for info on non-canon characters, however.

Brum <tiago...@gmail.com> wrote: >2- Things that contradict the timeline. Example: Monçada died after >Pedrodon. In fact, much of the whole story (VtES and VtM) around the >Eye of Hazimel and the war in the East Coast had to do with Pedrodon's >Final Death. >This point I think should be avoidable. How? Have card text coming out your ears on the Eye of Hazimel saying "Cannot be equipped by people who died their final death before this was discovered in V:tM lore, including:" and then a list of 75 berjillion vampires, that gets longer every time another vampire gets printed who died beforehand? Or not printing the Eye of Hazimel? I think V:TES is much richer for it (and many other similar cards) being printed. How specifically would you solve this problem, in a way that can scale across dozens, hundreds of other cards? [ quoted text not captured ]

On Mar 11, 9:22 am, Brum <tiago.br...@gmail.com> wrote: > Ok, there are 2 diferent things that are being put in the same bag: > > 1- The existense of non-canon characters. Easely solved: there's a > hole of 500 years between timelines. Your example, Sheldon, could be > from that hole. He can even exist in modern days and still have some > status within the clan or sect. > Sheldon can even think Pedrodon or Cock Robin are doing a lowsy job > and contest their job. Same as Anneke. Arika can be some really old > methuselah in disguise, and for centuries manipulate Hardestadt as a > puppet, like Kemintiri did Lucinde. > This contradicts in nothing the VtM cannon. It merely adds to it. > > 2- Things that contradict the timeline. Example: Monçada died after > Pedrodon. In fact, much of the whole story (VtES and VtM) around the > Eye of Hazimel and the war in the East Coast had to do with Pedrodon's > Final Death. > This point I think should be avoidable. But will be impossible. Heck, we've had Gehenna, multiple times now, and yet things are still going. WW developed the numerous Gehenna scenarios, but they obviously didn't all happen. A lot of what WW produced was given for the Storyteller to develop their own version of things .. that was why there were so many rumours and unknown facts about everything spread throughout the books. Pedrodon faced final death? Hmm, seems he's right here hacking into your bank accounts right now, so I guess rumours of his death were greatly exaggerated. > I don't mean to be a pain in the a$$, but nobody can say that VtES > lore has nothing to do with VtM lore. The ADV vampires come from the > RPG cannon, per example. > Other changes might fall on the blank between 2000 and 2004 (end of > the world), like the new Princes in some American cities. > > I just felt that this could be an interesting discussion, because lots > of BYOS are popping up and I wonder if other people care about this > subject. Specially the WW/CPP folks. > Again, I stress that this is an integral part of the hobby, as is the > art, for example. Sure, people don't need to care about it. But the > builders of the game do. > KoT is great because I think WW thought all these things, IMO. > > Wasn't LSJ that asked about information on VtM cannon characters? Even with the wealth of background information out there, all the stories and histories ... when it came down to it, the 'real' story was the one developed by the Storyteller and the players. And like playing the RPG, VTES will diverge every time it's played. Without the ability to change and affect things, you just end up playing a static game where you already know the outcome. And we're moving forward now. All the information and background is in the past, this is new territory that is being developed as the game progresses. It's not as if the story has ended and nothing can now change. > > > Of course you can claim that's your objective all along, but there is > > > so much still to do without breaking the Vampire story that brought > > > many of us to this game. > > > How does having a storyline to elect a new Imperator (whatever that > > is) breaking the VtM story? > > In nothing. There was never such a spot in the Camarilla and it would > bring a huge amount of political problems and division, but there can > be one. > The closest thing to an Imperator has always been Hardestadt. So there has never been the position .. meaning that one can never be developed, ever? Yes, VTES is based on the V:tM lore and background ... but it's also continually evolving and advancing the world. Obvioulsy Hardestadt hasn't done a good enough job to stop the Sabbat and Anarchs from risking everything. A stronger hand, with more sweeping power, is needed. Thus, Imperator is born. As to the political problems and division ... why yes, it will bring that about .. hence this whole Storyline of the 6 Camarilla clans vying for it. There will be political maneuvering and backstabbing, calling in favours and boons, fighting in the back-alleys. In the end, the story is where it should be, in the hands of the players. Chris, Thrall of Arika

On Mar 11, 1:31 pm, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > Brum <tiago.br...@gmail.com> wrote: > >2- Things that contradict the timeline. Example: Monçada died after > >Pedrodon. In fact, much of the whole story (VtES and VtM) around the > >Eye of Hazimel and the war in the East Coast had to do with Pedrodon's > >Final Death. > >This point I think should be avoidable. > > How? Tiago is referring to the fact that Petrodon appears (alive) as a character in the storyline intro fiction. That is, I must concede, a significant oversight on our part. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Mar 11, 12:22 pm, Brum <tiago.br...@gmail.com> wrote: > Sheldon can even think Pedrodon or Cock Robin are doing a lowsy job > and contest their job. In V:tM canon, that's not how the office of Justicar works. Either the Inner Circle picks you to be a Justicar or they don't. If they don't, you have no way to protest their decision. In V:TES, not only can two vampires contest the title of Justicar, vampires can be nominated for the title by any vampire, even those who aren't Camarilla (let alone Inner Circle members). And then other vampires, again not Inner Circle members or even Camarilla vampires, can decide whether or not the nominee should be Justicar. Inconsistences between V:tM canon and V:TES have been around as long as the latter has, without causing any damage to the former. John Eno

On Mar 3, 3:10 pm, OrgPlay <orgp...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=news&articleid=1071 > > Rise of theImperator! > > -- > Oscar J Garza III > Organized Play Coordinator > CCP|White Wolf Question: A > B > C > D > E A is about to successfully bleed B. If the Imperator deck has a Major Boon showing, who has priority to play the Boon? I'd imagine C, but lots of things, like voting, are free form. Similarly, if the Imperator deck has Alastor showing, and A has called an unblocked referendum, who has priority to play the Alastor for a PA vote during the PA? Thanks, Jeff

Jeff Kuta <jeff...@gmail.com> wrote: > Similarly, if the Imperator deck has Alastor showing, and A has called > an unblocked referendum, who has priority to play the Alastor for a PA > vote during the PA? That's not playing a card; it's discarding a card. And I don't think the rules allow for it. But let's say you mean Dread Gaze.. that should follow normal sequencing.

Jeff Kuta <jeff...@gmail.com> wrote: >A > B > C > D > E >A is about to successfully bleed B. > >If the Imperator deck has a Major Boon showing, who has priority to >play the Boon? C, by the normal sequencing rules. >I'd imagine C, but lots of things, like voting, are >free form. Could you name any of these "lots of things"? The only one I know of that's free-form is voting, because it says so in the rules. >Similarly, if the Imperator deck has Alastor showing, and A has called >an unblocked referendum, who has priority to play the Alastor for a PA >vote during the PA? Players call out their votes free-form, so whoever says it first gets it. If two people say it at the same time, resolve with normal sequencing rules. [ quoted text not captured ]