Possible rules conflict (LSJ)

Just noticed the first of the paragraphs in the V:TES Official Clarifications, Rulings and Errata. I don't think there's a problem, but for me wording is not entirely clear. Echo of Harmonies at superior. Is "at the end of the action" after the action is "completely resolved"? If not, Echo of Harmonies at superior would always be illegal to play. Sten During

[ quoted text not captured ] <card text> Echo of Harmonies, Action Modifier, 1 blood, Melpominee/Presence, R2 , [Bloodlines:R2] Only usable during a referendum. [pre] If you burn the Edge for a vote, this vampire gains two additional votes. [mel] Usable by a ready vampire other than the acting minion. This vampire gains two votes. [MEL] Usable by a ready vampire other than the acting minion. Move the political action card used to call the referendum from your ash heap to this vampire at the end of the action. This vampire may burn that card to call the referendum as a +1 stealth political action if he or she meets the requirements of that card. </card text> The card is an action modifier. So the playing vampire must play it during the action. Nominally during the action attempt, but there is no text that requires it to be done then. It could be done during the referendum vote tally (you successfully KRC and you want to do it again because you drew up another vote push). The next bit states that it is moved to the modifying vampire at the end of the action. An action ends when all combat, and all resolutions, are over. So how could this form an illegal play? D

[ quoted text not captured ] It is legal to play. You'll have to fill in the gaps above if you want more -- I can't figure out what the issue is that's giving you difficulty. -- LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply) Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ wrote: > Sten During wrote: > >> Just noticed the first of the paragraphs in the >> V:TES Official Clarifications, Rulings and Errata. >> >> I don't think there's a problem, but for me wording >> is not entirely clear. >> >> Echo of Harmonies at superior. Is "at the end of the >> action" after the action is "completely resolved"? >> If not, Echo of Harmonies at superior would always >> be illegal to play. > > > It is legal to play. > > You'll have to fill in the gaps above if you want more -- > I can't figure out what the issue is that's giving you > difficulty. > The gap, rather than gaps, would be the possibility that the political card would still be in "limbo". As I wrote, I really don't see a problem. Was more checking for the possibility of an unlikely one :) Sten During

The only "situation" I can think of is if someone plays Delaying Tactics. You call the vote, you play some modifiers (including Echo of Harmonies). They play delaying tactics. It forces you to return the card to your hand HOWEVER Echo lets you put it on the modifying vampire. Okay now THAT is something for LSJ :) D

[ quoted text not captured ] Echo text: "Move the political action card used to call the referendum from your ash heap to this vampire at the end of the action." DT: "The referendum is canceled. Untap the acting vampire. The political action card (if any) played to call this referendum is returned to its owner's hand (discard afterward)" DT is played. The referendum is canceled (and Echo makes a grab for the PA card). Then DT moves the PA card to your hand. Echo loses out. [ quoted text not captured ]

Damn I didn't even read from the ash heap ... Should stop scanning messages at work and actually read them fully :) D