Protect Thine Own

Was it errata'd to "Independent", or can you burn Sabbat vamps with it (My I/C pulls rank on your Cardinal...)

In article <39FACB6A...@pacific.net.au>, [ quoted text not captured ] AFAIK it affects Sabbat too. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

In article <39FACB6A...@pacific.net.au>, Michael Bradley <Ahr...@pacific.net.au> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] It has not been errata'ed. It can be used against any non-Camarilla vampire, including Sabbat vampires. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

>> Was it errata'd to "Independent", or can you burn >> Sabbat vamps with it (My I/C pulls rank on your >> Cardinal...) > >It has not been errata'ed. It can be used against >any non-Camarilla vampire, including Sabbat vampires. I see an interesting deck idea: Crypt full of all the IC members, and maybe a few Princes and/or Justicars. The deck is primarily a vote deck relying on Protect Thine Own to burn opposing vampires. Pool gain probably through Minion Tap. If you're playing against Sabbat or Independent, works fine normally. If you're playing against Camarilla, you may need a way to make others non-Cam. So what we COULD do is use Derange. Since none of the IC have Dementation, we instead rely on Thaumaturgy skill cards, Infernal Familiar, and maybe a Heidenburg. Since we're using Infernal Familiars, we can include a smattering of cards from a variety of disciplines (interesting since many of the IC can already use them!). I guess this could be a variation on Todd Banister's Assamite/Infernal Familiar deck. And you might also want to include a few Praxis' (or rely on Princes in crypt) if you want to take advantage of 2nd Tradition (good defense) and 5th Tradition (to help with the Minion Taps). Imagine Arika stepping down from her place in the IC just to become the Prince of Washington D.C! To speed things up maybe a few Information Highways and Ingrid Rossler. Yeah, it's a funky deck idea with (probably) too many moving parts, but it would be really fun if it worked right!!! Halcyan 2

In article <20001029205820...@ng-ch1.aol.com>, Halcyan 2 <halc...@aol.com> wrote: >So what we COULD do is use Derange. Since none of the IC have Dementation, we >instead rely on Thaumaturgy skill cards, Infernal Familiar, and maybe a >Heidenburg. Um, wouldn't 6 to 8 Dementation masters be significantly more efficient and reliable? gomi -- you say they taught you how to read and write yeah, they taught you how to count i say they taught you how to buy and sell your own body by the pound

>Um, wouldn't 6 to 8 Dementation masters be significantly more efficient >and reliable? Well it would make using Derange much more reliable and I suppose you could make Dementation one of the staple disciplines. But the reason I was considering the route of Infernal Familiars was that you could include a variety of cards so that you could for instance have decent combat defense and sufficient stealth, etc. Since the IC members have drastically different disciplines, you don't want to me stuck with cards you can't use. Of the IC members: All but one have Auspex (basic or sup) All but one have Celerity (ditto...) All but two have Presence All but two have Dominate Only four have Obfuscate Only three have Animalism (ditto for Fortitude) Only two have Potence (same for Thaumaturgy and protean) So either you could have a mix of cards and use infernal familiar (with 11 cap vampires, you don't have to worry much about burning!). Or maybe you could just have Dementation as a staple discipline and then rely on a combination of Auspex, Celerity, Presence, and/or Dominate. Suggestions are welcome! Halcyan 2

In article <20001030023007...@ng-cg1.aol.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] Why don't you use Minion Taps, Bewitching Orations and Voter Captivation for Pool Gain to use with your Protect Thine Own? Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown Jr. XZealot Archon of the Swamp [ quoted text not captured ]

On 30 Oct 2000, Halcyan 2 wrote: > So what we COULD do is use Derange. Kite (Malkavian, text previously posted), Derange, Sacrifice. Protect Thine Own is not needed in a Derange deck. -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D "And all the while I'm thinking things that I can never share with him. I'm a bundle of confusion, yet it has a strange appeal. Did it all begin with him and the way he makes me feel?"

The flaw with the deranges here and then "demoting" your IC's to princes is that the derange can then be moved onto Arika and ruin the 5th trad gambit, as well as remove their votes. IIRC, since 4 votes is written on the IC cards, even when deranged, they still get to keep their votes, since it is not an aspect of being an IC, but instead an inherent (read card-based) ability. Chris [ quoted text not captured ] -- chris <www.vtesinla.org> (A V:TES site in development) ultimate disc - V:TES - hockey v:ekn prince of torrance, ca

>> So what we COULD do is use Derange. > >Kite (Malkavian, text previously posted), Derange, Sacrifice. Protect >Thine Own is not needed in a Derange deck. Yes that is true, but playing in IC deck would have a few advantages. (Though !Malk Dementation works great as well). With the !Malk although you can gain vote dominance vs. Cam or Independents, it won't necessarily help against a Sabbat vote deck. Also, it only burns vampires with capacity below 7, which won't help when the heavy hitters arrive. But with an IC deck, you can (hopefully) gain political control easier. Having vote lock gives you access to all sorts of political cards. Ancient Influence (nets you more than normal with IC members!), Rumours of Gehenna, and Political Stranglehold. In addition, you can Dramatic Upheaval or Kindred Restructure to your advantage. With all the IC members, it probably is too much of a hassle becoming a Prince and then 5th Traditioning. Instead, I overlooked Voter Captivation, which can fill up your vampires just as well if you focus a bit more on voting. Although Kindred Restructure and 2nd Tradition are nice, Dramatic Upheaval and Wakes/Forced + Intercept can compensate. And also add a healthy dose of Banishments as well (if you don't want to burn the vampires immediately). Halcyan 2

On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, Chris Shorb wrote: > The flaw with the deranges here and then "demoting" your IC's to princes > is that the derange can then be moved onto Arika and ruin the 5th trad > gambit, as well as remove their votes. IIRC, since 4 votes is written > on the IC cards, even when deranged, they still get to keep their votes, > since it is not an aspect of being an IC, but instead an inherent (read > card-based) ability. No, the votes are a title based ability. It's now in the rules. [ quoted text not captured ]

On 31 Oct 2000, Halcyan 2 wrote: > >> So what we COULD do is use Derange. > > > >Kite (Malkavian, text previously posted), Derange, Sacrifice. Protect > >Thine Own is not needed in a Derange deck. > > Yes that is true, but playing in IC deck would have a few advantages. (Though > !Malk Dementation works great as well). > > With the !Malk although you can gain vote dominance vs. Cam or Independents, it > won't necessarily help against a Sabbat vote deck. Also, it only burns vampires > with capacity below 7, which won't help when the heavy hitters arrive. Well, you have other bigger vampires, you'll be playing another Presence card on kite. You can call things like Political Strangehold to get votes. And with Presence, you can empty yourself with Awe. (Mmm.....). And drop the Sabbat Closed-Session variant on it. Yikes! > But with an IC deck, you can (hopefully) gain political control easier. But have more difficulty with disciplines. It's all swings and roundabouts. [ quoted text not captured ]

I have played such a deck, based around Arika and the Ventrue Princes and Artemis since he has for and aus. I only had 4 PTO's but it did kick ass, burning Alexandra and Anson in one game. Tim In article <20001029205820...@ng-ch1.aol.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] -- PROPHECY OF GEHENNA: On The First Day Of Gehenna The Shrieking Wind Shall Be Silent And When A Black Sun Hangs From A Somber Sky Caine's Sleeping Children Shall Once Again Arise [ quoted text not captured ]

On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, Tim Eijpe wrote: > I have played such a deck, based around Arika and the Ventrue Princes > and Artemis since he has for and aus. I only had 4 PTO's but it did kick > ass, burning Alexandra and Anson in one game. <snip> Could you please follow netiquette and: 1) Reply underneath quoted text 2) Snip down the quoted text to the relevant points Posting the whole article again is unnecessary and wasteful, and posting above the text makes a thread very hard to follow when it pops up and down all over the thread. [ quoted text not captured ]

snip - according to netiquette, james ;-) > Imagine Arika stepping down from her place in the IC just to become the Prince > of Washington D.C! To speed things up maybe a few Information Highways and > Ingrid Rossler. > you might not want to give arike the title of prince. no mor protect thine own. and that was the puporse of the deck if remember correctly... marcus [ quoted text not captured ]

>you might not want to give arike the title of prince. no mor protect thine >own. and that was the puporse of the deck if remember correctly... Well you see you don't have Arika become a Prince UNTIL you get a few more IC members out... You can probably replace the 5th's with Voter Captivation, the Kindred Restructure with Dramatic Upheaval, and the 2nd's with a combination of Forced/Wake's and Auspex cards if you really don't want to change titles. Halcyan 2