[LSJ] Venenation, Mask and Change of Target

Hi, This came up yesterday in the tournament in Watford, and everyone just wanted official clarification on the rulings. My deck (and Adrian Deacons) was based around corrupting minions using I bleed U block I play venenation, mask, venenation, mask......venenation, change of target. No-one had a problem with this, but in order to try to oust my prey, and leaving me in a position that would have lost me a vampire, after playing venenation, mask I failed to draw another venenation or change of target. I asked Dave if I could then use stealth, and he ruled that I could. Was this OK? If not, would the ruling still have held that I couldn't use superior mask for +1 stealth either? If I could use the stealth, would I be able to leave the corruption counter on the minion, or as it is now not blocked, have to remove it? Thanks Andy VEKN Setite Ruler of Cambridge

>No-one had a problem with this, but in order to try to oust my prey, and >leaving me in a position that would have lost me a vampire, >after playing venenation, mask I failed to draw another venenation >or change of target. I asked Dave if I could then use stealth, and >he ruled that I could. Was this OK? I don't think so. Venenation (and Change of Target) are used when you have already been blocked. By that time, it's too late to try to add additional stealth. (If you're still playing stealth, you haven't been blocked yet and can't play Venenation yet). >If not, would the ruling still have held that I couldn't use superior >mask for +1 stealth either? Correct. "Blocking is required by explicit card text on Venenation." (From: LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) Subject: Re: Coupla Questions about Setite corruption [LSJ] Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad View this article only Date: 2001-08-03 07:48:50 PST ) >If I could use the stealth, would I be able to leave the corruption >counter on the minion, or as it is now not blocked, have to remove it? Moot. You can't use the Venenation until you've been blocked (which is after the time you can play additional stealth, assuming the action is continued via Form of Mist, etc.). Halcyan 2

Halcyan 2 wrote: > > >No-one had a problem with this, but in order to try to oust my prey, and > >leaving me in a position that would have lost me a vampire, > >after playing venenation, mask I failed to draw another venenation > >or change of target. I asked Dave if I could then use stealth, and > >he ruled that I could. Was this OK? > > I don't think so. Venenation (and Change of Target) are used when you have > already been blocked. By that time, it's too late to try to add additional > stealth. (If you're still playing stealth, you haven't been blocked yet and > can't play Venenation yet). Correct. > >If not, would the ruling still have held that I couldn't use superior > >mask for +1 stealth either? > > Correct. "Blocking is required by explicit card text on Venenation." Correct. > (From: LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) > Subject: Re: Coupla Questions about Setite corruption [LSJ] > Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad > View this article only > Date: 2001-08-03 07:48:50 PST ) > > >If I could use the stealth, would I be able to leave the corruption > >counter on the minion, or as it is now not blocked, have to remove it? > > Moot. You can't use the Venenation until you've been blocked (which is after > the time you can play additional stealth, assuming the action is [not] > continued via Form of Mist, etc.). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote in message news:<20020429042120...@mb-cg.aol.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] Does this mean I can sing the 'I told you so' song now :) This also came up yesterday - somebody tried to Cloak another of their minions actions from torpor. Surely this isn't allowed, right? Marty

Marty wrote: > This also came up yesterday - somebody tried to Cloak another of their > minions actions from torpor. Surely this isn't allowed, right? A ready vampire can cloak a torporous acting vampire. A torporous vampire cannot cloak anyone but himself. [ quoted text not captured ]

a...@sanger.ac.uk writes: >My deck (and Adrian Deacons) was based around corrupting minions >using >I bleed >U block >I play venenation, mask, venenation, mask......venenation, change of >target. I think this runs into legalistic aspects of the current Mask wording. To Mask, a minion must be able to have legally played all previous modifiers. So after venenation #2, nobody can perform a further Mask as nobody can have legally played 2 venenations. Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com) "It is better to be wrong than to be vague" - Freeman Dyson

CurtAdams wrote: > > a...@sanger.ac.uk writes: > > >My deck (and Adrian Deacons) was based around corrupting minions >using > >I bleed > >U block > >I play venenation, mask, venenation, mask......venenation, change of > >target. > > I think this runs into legalistic aspects of the current Mask wording. > To Mask, a minion must be able to have legally played all previous > modifiers. So after venenation #2, nobody can perform a further > Mask as nobody can have legally played 2 venenations. No problem there. The wording of the ruling is "any", not "all". There are no action modifiers played that could not have been played by the Masking minion. He coul've played any of the Venenations since he didn't play any of the other Venenations. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message > > I think this runs into legalistic aspects of the current Mask wording. > > To Mask, a minion must be able to have legally played all previous > > modifiers. So after venenation #2, nobody can perform a further > > Mask as nobody can have legally played 2 venenations. > No problem there. > The wording of the ruling is "any", not "all". > There are no action modifiers played that could not have been played > by the Masking minion. He coul've played any of the Venenations > since he didn't play any of the other Venenations. The following situation: Minion A: Govern the Unaligned, Command of the Beast (3 bleed) Opposing Minion Blocks Minion B: Mask1kFaces, Command of the Beast (4 bleed,1 stealth) Opposing Minion adds 1 intercept Minion C: Mask1kFaces, Command of the Beast (5 bleed,2 stealth) Opposing Minion adds 1 intercept Minion C: Elder Impersonation unblock, Conditioning (8 bleed,2 stealth) Is this legal? .- Luis Duarte - - - Powerbase:Lisbon-[http://planeta.clix.pt/vampire] -- Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Luis Duarte wrote: > Minion A: Govern the Unaligned, Command of the Beast (3 bleed) That's "4 bleed" unless the actor starts with a -1 bleed (Gangrel Atavism, anyone?) I'll also assume that CotB is being played at superior each time... > Opposing Minion [attempts to block] > Minion B: Mask1kFaces, Command of the Beast (4 bleed,1 stealth) > Opposing Minion adds 1 intercept > Minion C: Mask1kFaces, Command of the Beast (5 bleed,2 stealth) > Opposing Minion adds 1 intercept > Minion C: Elder Impersonation unblock, Conditioning (8 bleed,2 stealth) > > Is this legal? Yes, assuming you've got that many DOM/OBF vampires ready and untapped waiting to Mask the action. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. [ quoted text not captured ]