[LSJ] Anathema & Amaranth

Here's yet another query sure to set off some great debate: If a minion burdened with an Anathema, full of blood, suffers aggravated damage and is headed towards torpor, can the opposing minion play an Amaranth and receive pool for burning the vampire? Anathema Card Text: Worth 1 vote. Called by any Prince or Justicar at +1 stealth. Choose a ready vampire. If the referendum is successful, put this card on that vampire. If that vampire is reduced to zero blood in combat, he or she is burned, and the Methuselah controlling the opposing minion gains pool equal to the burned vampire's capacity. Anathema Clarifications and Rulings Burns the target vampire when the target is reduced to zero blood in combat, regardless of the source of the loss of blood (card text). Still won't burn a vampire just for entering a combat with zero blood, however - there must be an actual "reduction" in blood. [RTR 19980623] Amaranth Card Text: Only usable by a vampire who can commit diablerie. Diablerize an opposing vampire instead of sending that vampire into torpor. Not usable by a vampire going into torpor. Amaranth Clarifications and Rulings Only vampires who can commit diablerie can use Amaranth. If a vampire is prohibited from commiting diablerie, he can't use Amaranth to overcome the restriction. [RTR 19991001] 6.5.5. Diablerie Diablerie is the act of sending another vampire to Final Death by drinking his blood. Only ready vampires can commit diablerie. Vampires of Clan Assamite suffer from a Blood Curse which prevents them from committing diablerie. The vampire committing diablerie is called the diablerist. Diablerie is resolved as follows: 1. All blood on the victim is moved to the diablerist. Blood in excess of his capacity drains off as normal. 2. The diablerist may take any equipment on the victim. 3. The victim is burned (sent to his owner's ash heap). Any cards and counters on him are also burned. 4. If the victim was older (had a higher capacity) than the diablerist, the diablerist can be given a Discipline. His controller may go through her library, ash heap and hand to get a master Discipline card to put on the diablerist and then reshuffle her library or draw back up to her hand size, as necessary. This increases the diablerist's capacity by one, but does not automatically give the diablerist a blood to fill that new capacity. 5. A blood hunt may be called. Since Amaranth is a combat card and does not specify that combat ends, would this work in the following manner? FattyAnathema (12 cap) is struck by Badger (6 cap)with 1 agg damage. At the end of Damage Resolution, FattyAnathema is headed to torpor. Badger plays Amaranth, which means she is Diablerizing FattyAnathema instead of letting him go to torpor. Combat has not yet ended. Badger follows the steps of Diablerie: 1. All blood on FattyAnathema is moved to the diablerist. At this point, Anathema's text kicks in and FattyAnathema is burnt, as there is a reduction of blood to zero and combat has not yet ended. Is this a correct assumption? -Mike Ooi

On Sat, 13 Oct 2001 00:02:07 GMT, "Mike Ooi" <sh...@texas.net> wrote: >At this point, Anathema's text kicks in and FattyAnathema is burnt, as there >is a reduction of blood to zero and combat has not yet ended. > >Is this a correct assumption? > >-Mike Ooi > > > > I dont think so. IIRC as soon as the vampire is no longer ready combat ends. Hence, as amaranth is played, and resolves, at this point, the vampire is no longer ready, hence combat ends. Anathema does not trigger.

Mike Ooi wrote: > If a minion burdened with an Anathema, full of blood, suffers aggravated > damage and is headed towards torpor, can the opposing minion play an > Amaranth and receive pool for burning the vampire? Yes. [ quoted text not captured ] You finish the Anathema diablerie (again, no interrupting the effect). The you burn the victim (redundantly) for Anathema's card text (and Fatty's controller gains pool). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3BC79D6E...@white-wolf.com... > You finish the Anathema diablerie (again, no interrupting the effect). > > The you burn the victim (redundantly) for Anathema's card text (and Fatty's > controller gains pool). As Fatty is the victim of the diablerie, Badger's controller will gain the pool. Card text of Anathema. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com -- Posted from rr-163-54-80.atl.mediaone.net [24.163.54.80] via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Dimis <Ali...@rr.nc.com> wrote in message news:<f32fst87t95scb6ta...@4ax.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] No. If combat ended as soon as the opposing minion was about to go to torpor, there'd be no oportunity to play Amaranth at all (since Amaranth is a combat card and has to be played in combat). Flux

The Lasombra wrote: > > "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message > news:3BC79D6E...@white-wolf.com... > > > You finish the Anathema diablerie (again, no interrupting the effect). > > > > The you burn the victim (redundantly) for Anathema's card text (and Fatty's > > controller gains pool). > > As Fatty is the victim of the diablerie, Badger's controller will gain the > pool. > > Card text of Anathema. Badger, right. Thanks for the catch. [ quoted text not captured ]

> The you burn the victim (redundantly) for Anathema's card text (and Fatty's > controller gains pool). Dear gods, and here I was, about to torch my Nosferatu Princes Anathema/Archon/Amaranth deck, because it was trying to do too much. Silly me, it wasn't doing too much, it was doing to little at any given time! Muah! Ha! Hah! The Fanboy

> > 1. All blood on FattyAnathema is moved to the diablerist. > > > > At this point, Anathema's text kicks in and FattyAnathema is burnt, as there > > is a reduction of blood to zero and combat has not yet ended. > > You finish the Anathema diablerie (again, no interrupting the effect). > > The you burn the victim (redundantly) for Anathema's card text (and Fatty's > controller gains pool). Does Badger still get the skill card? Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr. XZealot Archon of the Swamp

[ quoted text not captured ] I didnt say it ends when a vampire is about to go to torpor, i said it ended when a vampire is no longer ready. A vampire on his way to torpor is indeed ready, a burnt one is not. In any event, LSJ has ruled me wrong.

XZealot wrote: > > > > 1. All blood on FattyAnathema is moved to the diablerist. > > > > > > At this point, Anathema's text kicks in and FattyAnathema is burnt, as there > > > is a reduction of blood to zero and combat has not yet ended. > > > > You finish the Anathema diablerie (again, no interrupting the effect). Hmm. That should say "Amaranth", not "Anathema" - there is no "Anathema" diablerie. > > The you burn the victim (redundantly) for Anathema's card text (and Fatty's > > controller gains pool). > > Does Badger still get the skill card? If Fatty is older, yes. You finish the Amaranth diablerie. She also gets any equipment on Fatty. She also gets a blood hunt :-) [ quoted text not captured ]