The unnamed FTW, Byzar WTF

The unnamed looks too good. Legal Manip is prey loses 3 pool, you gain 2 pool and lose 1 blood. Homunculus and Uncle Cog to go again on someone else's turn. Form of Mist can double as delivery mechanism and combat defense. Not to mention the decks you could come up with if you thought about it for more than the fifteen seconds I just spent. Byzar, on the other hand, looks unplayable to me. His main special is worth 0 points, and +1 stealth is not great with his disciplines.

[ quoted text not captured ] No, you would gain THREE pool (!). Well, at least It doesn't have Fortitude like Its friend Nergal. Cold comfort, I know.

On Dec 15, 2:40 pm, Aaron Clark <aamacl...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Dec 14, 7:29 pm, Malone <kffos...@indiana.edu> wrote: > > > The unnamed looks too good. Legal Manip is prey loses 3 pool, you > > gain 2 pool and lose 1 blood. Homunculus and Uncle Cog to go again on > > someone else's turn. Form of Mist can double as delivery mechanism > > and combat defense. Not to mention the decks you could come up with > > if you thought about it for more than the fifteen seconds I just > > spent. > > > Byzar, on the other hand, looks unplayable to me. His main special is > > worth 0 points, and +1 stealth is not great with his disciplines. > > No, you would gain THREE pool (!). And if you played that new action mod at OBF DAI, you would gain 4. kekeke.

I mean, they have to keep giving people a reason to buy new cards, right? Right? (Oh Caine, save us all from The unnamed...)

On Dec 14, 10:40 pm, Aaron Clark <aamacl...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Dec 14, 7:29 pm, Malone <kffos...@indiana.edu> wrote: > > > The unnamed looks too good. Legal Manip is prey loses 3 pool, you > > gain 2 pool and lose 1 blood. Homunculus and Uncle Cog to go again on > > someone else's turn. Form of Mist can double as delivery mechanism > > and combat defense. Not to mention the decks you could come up with > > if you thought about it for more than the fifteen seconds I just > > spent. > > > Byzar, on the other hand, looks unplayable to me. His main special is > > worth 0 points, and +1 stealth is not great with his disciplines. > > No, you would gain THREE pool (!). I was deducting one for the Infernal untap. But once you've got the Homunculus you can pay that with blood, too. Giant's Blood and a few Procurers to keep the engine running.

[ quoted text not captured ] The way I see it, Byzar's +1 stealth (normally worth 2 points) is his main special. His other ability is just added gravy. Compare him to Advanced Kemintiri, Porphyrion, Viktor The Night General, Iniko The Black Lion, Appius Claudius Corvus, Aristotle de Laurent, Harold Zettler, Spider-Killer, and Cyscek. I'm guessing the inherent stealth will be most useful for his various Necromancy actions. Might also be helpful in Harbinger vote decks. Superior OBF lets him Veil the Legions. Sure, it doesn't scream to be abused (like The unnamed), but it does offer some possibilities. His burn counter ability could be quite strong in a Baltimore Purge deck. His inherent stealth and OBF are useful for the Purge action (normally at 0-stealth). You don't have to worry too much about defending him in torpor (takes three successful tries to remove him from the game and even then it doesn't count as a successful diablerie). Or you can view his ability as allowing him to diablerize twice without getting burned (and you still get the blood and equipment from the diablerie victim). The permanent stealth and OBF ensures you can succeed on the diablerie action too. I haven't seen any Baltimore Purge decks in ages, but Enkil Cog could be a useful addition (do the Purge during your predator's turn so people don't see it coming). My main gripe with Byzar is that the picture isn't really fitting for an ancient Harbinger (they're supposed to be emaciated, rotting corpses). No offense to Hugh. Reminds me to much of the "oh this Nosferatu is just using Obfuscate to appear normal" excuse.

[ quoted text not captured ] Perfectionist would be a much better way to go than procurers. Doesn't cost an action, can't be blocked, and if you have a Cog out, can give multiple blood between your turns.

echia...@yahoo.com wrote: > On Dec 14, 9:29 pm, Malone <kffos...@indiana.edu> wrote: > > The way I see it, Byzar's +1 stealth (normally worth 2 points) is his > main special. His other ability is just added gravy. > > Compare him to Advanced Kemintiri, Porphyrion, Viktor The Night > General, Iniko The Black Lion, Appius Claudius Corvus, Aristotle de > Laurent, Harold Zettler, Spider-Killer, and Cyscek. > > And advanced Yazid, you must be Raziel-baiting Eric... best - chris

[ quoted text not captured ] You misspelled "borderline broken". His main special is "creates a new deck for Boris." Boris is famous for Clan Impersonating into Baali a lot... you can probably work out the rest. =) Even without Call the Great Beast craziness, he's still a 10 cap with 10 points of disciplines, +1 stealth which is worth 2 points, and a burn special that's gotta be worth a point. At the very least, it's two free diabs. I wouldn't underestimate having +1 stealth, even if you don't see using his inferior dom or pre much. He's got FOR for freak driving, and if you're using him for blocking, the +1 stealth is actually really useful on tool-up actions when you don't wanna clog your deck with stealth.

[ quoted text not captured ] Agreed, Byzar looks underwhelming. Trying to think of uses. Villein him down to 2; force of Will Bleed for +1bleed, Elder Intervention, he burns, wait, he's in torpor. Dang, you can't even turbo him. Hmmm, but, he's Hugh! Is unnamed going to join Ankou and Lucian the Perfect as the monsters that weren't? Or is it really that good... best - chris

On Dec 14, 10:39 pm, librarian <aucti...@superfuncards.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Ha ha. Yeah, I was tempted to mention Yazid. In fact, the main reason I responded to the post about Byzar was that I had just recently made a similar post talking about lots of these vampires with inherent +1 stealth. Most vampires with built-in stealth are *good*. Don't know what people are complaining about. The only exceptions I can think of are a handful of Nosferatu (Lucretia Cess Queen, Harrod). If you want to complain about these guys, I certainly understand! ;-)

On Dec 14, 8:44 pm, librarian <aucti...@superfuncards.com> wrote: > > Agreed, Byzar looks underwhelming. Trying to think of uses. > Villein him down to 2; force of Will Bleed for +1bleed, > Elder Intervention, he burns, wait, he's in torpor. Dang, > you can't even turbo him. > > Hmmm, but, he's Hugh! > > Is unnamed going to join Ankou and Lucian the Perfect as the > monsters that weren't? Or is it really that good... > I don't think The unnamed is going to be that crazy in real play. He's infernal after all... But I'm not sure about calling Ankou and Lucian "monsters that weren't." The Ankou is seriously the vampire I dread seeing next to me more than any other (unless playing a location- based deck, in which case Arika is still queen). He really makes it impossible to play a lot of decks, and difficult to play most others. And Lucian can still bleed for 13, so I wouldn't ignore him too much... =)

[ quoted text not captured ] If Harrod had built in stealth, he might actually be playable. I think you mean Josef van Bauren? Actually, Powerbleeding with Bazir might be a good move. You can bleed for 5 easy with GovCon @+1s, and you don't really have to worry about AI the first couple of times you do it. He may not be terrible after all - you could even Pulse him up. And since you can play Block Fails stuff with OBF and nec, as well as -1i stuff, this means you can do it semi-responsibly too. Hmmm, maybe he's a little more subtle. The key of course is who is his supporting cast - the Harbingers we haven't seen yet. Alcoan, La Viuda Blanca, Mordechai Ben-Nun, Nicomedes. best - chris

Malone wrote: > The unnamed looks too good. Legal Manip is prey loses 3 pool, > you gain 2 pool and lose 1 blood. I'm sure some preys will be playing reduce, bounce, or intercept. Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/ Please buy my cards! http://shop.ebay.com/kjmergen/m.html Please attend my qualifier! http://members.cox.net/vtesinlv/index.htm

[ quoted text not captured ] Yes, true about Lucian. Ankou draws lots of irrational table hate, or at least did at the outset. He needs protection.

On Dec 14, 10:53 pm, librarian <aucti...@superfuncards.com> wrote: > If Harrod had built in stealth, he might actually be > playable. I think you mean Josef van Bauren? > > Actually, Powerbleeding with Bazir might be a good move. > You can bleed for 5 easy with GovCon @+1s, and you don't > really have to worry about AI the first couple of times you > do it. He may not be terrible after all - you could even > Pulse him up. And since you can play Block Fails stuff with > OBF and nec, as well as -1i stuff, this means you can do it > semi-responsibly too. Hmmm, maybe he's a little more subtle. > > The key of course is who is his supporting cast - the > Harbingers we haven't seen yet. Alcoan, La Viuda Blanca, > Mordechai Ben-Nun, Nicomedes. Yeah, I meant Josef, not Harrod. Now that you mention it, Byzar's anti-AI tech is quite strong. He has inherent +1 stealth. You can get an additional permanent +1 stealth with the Erebus Mask. Maybe Blithe Acceptance if you want as well. Pulse gives him permanent +2 bleed. You can even give him Heart of the City for another permanent +1 (or throw in equipment like Laptop or bleed retainers since he has the Fortitude to spare the actions). Between that and Govern + Conditioning, that's a lot of killer bleed (OBF for Spying Missions to make sure people aren't ousted out of turn). I think it's very unlikely that you'll see 3 Archon Investigations in the same game.

On Dec 15, 4:29 am, Malone <kffos...@indiana.edu> wrote: > Byzar, on the other hand, looks unplayable to me. His main special is > worth 0 points, and +1 stealth is not great with his disciplines. I think the main question Mr Angseesing needs to ask himself is how come he still haven't learned superior dominate after all these years : (

[ quoted text not captured ] It's all that beer. Slows down them brain cells.

I'm thinking Flurry of Action (with maybe Enkil Cog, Heart of the City and Sense the Sin) goodness with Rötschreck intercept with the Unnamed. And Homunculus, too. Not bad for an infernal minion. There's a lot of sources of permanent intercept, not so with permanent stealth, so I think permanent stealth is always a good ability. I have found even Cyscek useful just as long as you remember that having OBF VIC still doesn't mean you should play Soul Decoration. What are those decks The Ankou stops, I'd sure like to know since I have yet to benefit from his ability in any way? You can't hunt-bloat, what else?

On Dec 15, 3:29 am, Malone <kffos...@indiana.edu> wrote: > The unnamed looks too good. Legal Manip is prey loses 3 pool, you > gain 2 pool and lose 1 blood. Homunculus and Uncle Cog to go again on > someone else's turn. Form of Mist can double as delivery mechanism > and combat defense. Not to mention the decks you could come up with > if you thought about it for more than the fifteen seconds I just > spent. > The Unnamed does not have for/FOR, AUS or dom/DOM. In this game that is a big habdicap for a vampire that big. It will call the atention of people in the table and make it easier for the cross table Jost Werner to get TW. I think Bysar (Hugh's bizare?) is very solid. Great specials (both of them). Power bleeder that takes 3 Archon Investications to die and has +1 stealth. With that discipline spread... How come that's any less then awesome? Tiago PS: as always, the sky is not falling.

> > I think Bysar (Hugh's bizare?) is very solid. Great specials (both of > them). > Power bleeder that takes 3 Archon Investications to die and has +1 > stealth. > With that discipline spread... > How come that's any less then awesome? > Bizarre looks very strong indeed. Many tricks to do with such a special, imho. immune to AI is also great ^^

On Dec 14, 11:53 pm, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: > Malone wrote: > > The unnamed looks too good. Legal Manip is prey loses 3 pool, > > you gain 2 pool and lose 1 blood. > > I'm sure some preys will be playing reduce, bounce, or intercept. > Bounce still gets you the pool. Reduce 3 to 0 is not often seen, at least by my eyes. Intercept is hardly a problem, with OBF PRO. On another note, thanks to folks pointing out that Byzar gets three strikes against AI before he's out. (And how many decks have 3x AI?) He ain't so bad after all.

someone on the French forum suggested Baltimore purge/ Call the great beast/ Powerbleed deck with him ^^

[ quoted text not captured ] There is so much to do with this guy. Don't forget 2 Strikes agains Diablerie. And I'll say it first: he can block Caiaphas Smith. That's always a plus. :D

On Dec 15, 3:27 am, Demnogonis Saastuttaja <vihako...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > What are those decks The Ankou stops, I'd sure like to know since I > have yet to benefit from his ability in any way? You can't hunt-bloat, > what else? > Isn't that enough? It's not like I haven't sat next to Ankou with my Rabbat/Tempatation deck twice! =( Also, Hermanas suck against him. I mean, I almost always end up having to hunt at least once per game, and with The Ankou on the table, you can't do it without permission. It's just incredibly annoying. It doesn't necessarily make the Ankou win, but if you're his pred or prey and need to hunt (or forced to hunt by Vampiric Disease, The Haunting, etc...), it makes you lose.

Brum schrieb: > On Dec 15, 3:29 am, Malone <kffos...@indiana.edu> wrote: >> The unnamed looks too good. Legal Manip is prey loses 3 pool, you >> gain 2 pool and lose 1 blood. Homunculus and Uncle Cog to go again on >> someone else's turn. Form of Mist can double as delivery mechanism >> and combat defense. Not to mention the decks you could come up with >> if you thought about it for more than the fifteen seconds I just >> spent. >> > > The Unnamed does not have for/FOR, AUS or dom/DOM. In this game that > is a big habdicap for a vampire that big. > It will call the atention of people in the table and make it easier > for the cross table Jost Werner to get TW. You have to pay 1 pool per turn to even untap the guy. So if you bleed once per turn you net gain 1 pool. So you got a 10-cap who gains you 1 per turn for successfully bleeding who can strike for 2R agg with no bounce discipline and no votes. He has PRO which is nice, but no good combination with other vamps and he has DAI which is great. So I would say his special make him playable. Nowhere near to good, I�d take Anneke over him any day.

[ quoted text not captured ] The Unnamed Baali 10-cap CEL DAI OBF PRE PRO can strike for 2r agg for 1 blood. Gain 2 pool if the Unnamed bleeds successfully. Say you get set up reasonably quickly with crypt acceleration, here are some bleed tools at your disposal: Presence bleed actions: Legal Manipulations- bleed at +2 and gain a pool Public Trust- Bleed at +2 and move a blood to your uncontrolled. Propaganda- Bleed at +1, titled vampires can't block, tap one of their minions. Tricky bleed actions: Fleetness- Bleed and untap if successful Cat Burglary- Bleed any methuselah at +1 stealth for no more than 1 Precision- +1 stealth action to force your prey to discard a card from their hand by name, could potentially make them lose a pool (discard a Telepathic Misdirection or Deflection to prepare for a big bleed, or an Archon Investigation). Action Modifiers: Faceless Night Elder Impersonation True Love's Face other misc obf stealth Aire of Elation Psychomachia (more block fails) Sense the Sin (intercept/+2 bleed) Combat: Majesty for untap Earth Meld for untap Form of Mist to continue Does Zubeda have a good reason to be played now? Assamites with presence? pre/PRO bleeders? If you can deplete your prey's minions' blood and force them to block rather than bounce, The Unnamed can burn them in combat with the 2r agg. Just a few ideas. I think that the Unnamed is pretty strong, especially in that it addresses discipline synergy problems within the Baali and the pool loss problem for infernalism. Brandon

**add in there of course the new card, I Am Legion: Action Modifier Cost: 1 blood dai: +1 stealth dai obf: cancel a card that requires auspex as it is played DAI OBF: as dai obf above and/or gain 1 pool of the action is successful. Awesome! Bounce? No. And I get a pool. Eyes of Argus? Nope. Intercept? Forget it.

On 15 Gru, 18:27, brandonsantacruz <brandonsantac...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Fleetness- Bleed and untap if successful > Brandon Fleetness Action Celerity 1 Blood +1 stealth action. [cel] (D) Bleed. [CEL] (D) Enter combat with a tapped minion. This acting vampire gets an optional maneuver during this combat. Perhaps this: Flurry of Action Action Celerity [cel] (D) Bleed. If the bleed is successful, draw two cards (discard afterward). [CEL] (D) Bleed. If the bleed is successful, this vampire untaps.

[ quoted text not captured ] Correct, although Fleetness could still be a good card for him come to think of it. 2r agg is nothing to sneeze at. Monster could be a good source of multi-acting with that agg damage. Maybe some Psyche! too?

So here is a fun what if question. Byzer goes out and finds the Soul Gem, and then is burned by the Archons or in Baltimore of all places (Archon Investigation or Baltimore Purge). He goes to torpor instead of burning as per his special. Do we get to see a free younger vampire with the Soul Gem? I have a guess, but just wanted to put the question out there, as other cards also work around burning vampires.

[ quoted text not captured ] I guess you don't get to have a new vampire, since Soul Gem's text reads "If this vampire is burned,", which should never happen with Byzar.

[ quoted text not captured ] Correct. Like not getting a Trophy for "almost" burning a Red List minion. There are two things here: applying a "burn this thing" effect (which is what Set's Curse and J:CS do) vs. responding to a "that thing is burned" event (which is what Trophies and Soul Gems do).

aaronmiller38 wrote: > So here is a fun what if question. > > Byzer goes out and finds the Soul Gem, and then is burned by the > Archons or in Baltimore of all places (Archon Investigation or > Baltimore Purge). how does Baltimore's Purge burn him? -- salem (replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)

[ quoted text not captured ] Your correct Baltimore's Purge does not actually burn him :P The special just saves you in the ensuing diableries that happen afterwards.

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009, Salem wrote: > aaronmiller38 wrote: >> So here is a fun what if question. >> >> Byzer goes out and finds the Soul Gem, and then is burned by the >> Archons or in Baltimore of all places (Archon Investigation or >> Baltimore Purge). > > how does Baltimore's Purge burn him? Self-diablerie! It's a card from the new set.

[ quoted text not captured ] Let's say Byzar ["If Byzar would be burned, put a burn counter on him and move him to torpor instead."] is in torpor with Fame ["If this vampire goes into torpor, his or her controller burns 3 pool."] and with 0 burn counters. Sandra White ["If Sandra diablerizes an older vampire, the controller of that vampire burns 1 pool."] performs an unblocked action to diablerize him. Does Sandra diablerize him? My guess: yes. The diablerie action triggers Byzar being burned and considers itself successful. analogies: War Ghoul and Impundulu; bleed action and Major Boon Does Byzar's controller burn (an additional) 3 pool for Fame? My guess: no. Byzar does not leave torpor and thus cannot trigger Fame's "goes INTO torpor" requirement. If I guessed wrong, is anything different if Byzar already has 2 burn counters (so the final result of Sandra's action is that he is removed from the game)?

On 12/17/09 10:14 , Malone wrote: > On Dec 16, 11:30 am, LSJ<vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> There are two things here: applying a "burn this thing" effect (which is what >> Set's Curse and J:CS do) vs. responding to a "that thing is burned" event (which >> is what Trophies and Soul Gems do). > > Let's say Byzar ["If Byzar would be burned, put a burn counter on him > and move him to torpor instead."] is in torpor with Fame ["If this > vampire goes into torpor, his or her controller burns 3 pool."] and > with 0 burn counters. Sandra White ["If Sandra diablerizes an older > vampire, the controller of that vampire burns 1 pool."] performs an > unblocked action to diablerize him. > > Does Sandra diablerize him? My guess: yes. The diablerie action > triggers Byzar being burned and considers itself successful. > analogies: War Ghoul and Impundulu; bleed action and Major Boon No. Analogy: Ashes to Ashes. The action is successful (reaches resolution unblocked). The diablerie is not. > Does Byzar's controller burn (an additional) 3 pool for Fame? My > guess: no. Byzar does not leave torpor and thus cannot trigger Fame's > "goes INTO torpor" requirement. Correct. > If I guessed wrong, is anything different if Byzar already has 2 burn > counters (so the final result of Sandra's action is that he is removed > from the game)? No. The diablerie is still thwarted, and Fame never cares about the target being removed from the game.