Card Idea

I'm guessing WotC doesn't take ideas for V:TES either. Even so, they can use this if they want. It's a little idea that came to me while walking uptown today. It probably needs a better name. Throwing Stones Combat POT 1 blood pot: Strike: Use your hand or melee weapon at range. If a weapon is used burn it after use. POT: As above with an optional maneuver. Basically, it allows a vamp with potence to throw something convenient (like a Torn Signpost) at his opponent. -- ________________ "I wish I was a fearsome ______ ___@^^^^\ / \ engine of destruction!" / \ @ \_____/ David Schwartz \__________________________/ > (^^^^^\ _______ ___/ \---\ / \ da...@schwartz.manawatu.gen.nz / \_____________/ \__________________________________/

David Schwartz (da...@schwartz.manawatu.gen.nz) wrote: : I'm guessing WotC doesn't take ideas for V:TES either. Even so, : they can use this if they want. It's a little idea that came to : me while walking uptown today. It probably needs a better name. : Throwing Stones : Combat POT 1 blood : pot: Strike: Use your hand or melee weapon at range. If a : weapon is used burn it after use. : POT: As above with an optional maneuver. : Basically, it allows a vamp with potence to throw something : convenient (like a Torn Signpost) at his opponent. : -- : ________________ "I wish I was a fearsome ______ : ___@^^^^\ / \ engine of destruction!" / \ : @ \_____/ David Schwartz Here's a card I'd like to see Hound of Shaghee Ally. 1 pool Unique Ally with 2 life, 1 damage, 0 bleed. Hound of Shaghee has one optional maneuver each round, and may dodge as a strike. He may not use equipment. As a directed action, Hound may steal a retainer from any minion, provided the retainer is one he could normally employ. If any Methuselah is successfully bled for more than 2 pool, control of the Hound then passes to that Methuselah. (Not inspired by V:tM) John Whelan

>: Throwing Stones >: Combat POT 1 blood >: pot: Strike: Use your hand or melee weapon at range. If a >: weapon is used burn it after use. >: POT: As above with an optional maneuver. >: Basically, it allows a vamp with potence to throw something >: convenient (like a Torn Signpost) at his opponent. >Hound of Shaghee >Ally. 1 pool >Unique Ally with 2 life, 1 damage, 0 bleed. >Hound of Shaghee has one optional maneuver each round, and may dodge as a >strike. He may not use equipment. >As a directed action, Hound may steal a retainer from any minion, >provided the retainer is one he could normally employ. >If any Methuselah is successfully bled for more than 2 pool, control of >the Hound then passes to that Methuselah. Here is some cards I like to see: The Gift Of Eternal Life Picture of an embrace... Requires a ready vampire. +1 stealth action Choose an Ally, that ally is now considered an vampire with 1 capacity. All options aviable for vampires is now aviable for that ally. Go through your library, ash heap, or hand to find a Discipline card for that ally, otherwise, othervise the ally remains at 1 capacity. This new vampire must hunt the turn he or she is created, and is the same clan as the acting vampire. (Embrace the Allies? About the 1 capacity even if the new vampire was a Renegade Garou!? A new vampire shouldn't have more than 1 capacity regardless how tough he is as mortal.) Renew the cycle Picture of a couple of silluettes that raise their arms in the air with a glow of something above them. Master 3 pool Shuffle your ash heap into your library. (I always use 100 card decks... But my friends use 150-200 card decks... my fast decks are ousted very soon from play... so I need something like this =\ ) Survivial instincts Picture of a injured vampire that still go strong. Combat. 2 blood. You play this round as normal, even if some other card prevents you from playing certain cards. In this round of combat you may prevent non-preventable damage. (This work against hidden Lurker, Fast Reactions, Thoughts Betrayed, Immortal Grapple and all not prevenatble cards... To bad its an "anti-other-cards-like-a-magicTG-card".) Ban the damn thing! Picture of the back of a Magic TG card. Master, Out Of Turn 5 pool Only useable when another methusalah play a card. That card is burned and no more of that card may be played in the game. (Just joking =) )

staffan.bengtsson writes: >Here is some cards I like to see: >The Gift Of Eternal Life >Picture of an embrace... >Requires a ready vampire. >+1 stealth action >Choose an Ally, that ally is now considered an vampire with 1 capacity. >All options aviable for vampires is now aviable for that ally. >Go through your library, ash heap, or hand to find a Discipline card for >that ally, otherwise, othervise the ally remains at 1 capacity. >This new vampire must hunt the turn he or she is created, and is the same >clan as the acting vampire. Definitely needed. How 'bout letting you get enough disciplines to make its cap equal it's life, or would that be too powerful? >Renew the cycle >Picture of a couple of silluettes that raise their arms in the air with a >glow of something above them. >Master >3 pool >Shuffle your ash heap into your library. I'd prefer something like Soldevi Digger: Methuselah's Diary Master: Location Pay one pool to put the top card of your ash heap on the bottom of your library. -- ________________ ______ ___@^^^^\ / \ Happy Holidays! / \ [ quoted text not captured ]

> David Schwartz wrote: > staffan.bengtsson writes: > >The Gift Of Eternal Life > >Picture of an embrace... > >Requires a ready vampire. > >+1 stealth action > >Choose an Ally, that ally is now considered an vampire with 1 capacity. > >All options aviable for vampires is now aviable for that ally. > >Go through your library, ash heap, or hand to find a Discipline card for > >that ally, otherwise, othervise the ally remains at 1 capacity. > >This new vampire must hunt the turn he or she is created, and is the same > >clan as the acting vampire. Point one-this ally should not keep any of their powers prior to the Embrace. No maneuvers, no presses, nor any damage or special abilities. Is this changed ally the same as another ally of the same name? > Definitely needed. How 'bout letting you get enough disciplines > to make its cap equal it's life, or would that be too powerful? What if I embraced Talaq the Immortal after Talaq had Theft of Vitaed once or twice, let him keep his powers and added four Master:Disciplines to him-say Quietus, Thaumaturgy, Auspex and Celerity? This is a direct upgrade which allows an ally to hunt, gain disciplines, and vote. It costs nothing. (In game-world context, Mages and Changelings do not keep their powers after the Embrace. In other words, their Avatars and Fae souls die.) > >Renew the cycle > >Picture of a couple of silluettes that raise their arms in the air with a > >glow of something above them. > >Master > >3 pool > >Shuffle your ash heap into your library. Timetwister, huh? Timetwister in either Netrunner or MTG allows the reuse of vital resources. As such, it can be abused, since the normal rules of once gone-always gone don't apply. The worst abuses in those two games that I have seen occurred when Timetwister, MIT West Tier and AI CFO were used. > I'd prefer something like Soldevi Digger: > Methuselah's Diary > Master: Location > Pay one pool to put the top card of your ash heap on the bottom > of your library. This one, I have problems with, because I don't see it as powerful enough for its cost, or even worthwhile to play most of the time. Personally, I like the idea of an action which takes a card from someone else's ash heap and sticks it in your hand. (If not for the Golden Rule of Card Ownership...) One Man's Trash... Action D action: Search through another Methuselah's ash heap for a card, and take that card into your hand. Discard to your maximum hand size. Return that card to that Methuselah's ash heap when that card would be burned. -Nathan Harada

> > >The Gift Of Eternal Life > > >Choose an Ally, that ally is now considered an vampire with 1 capacity. > Point one-this ally should not keep any of their powers > prior to the Embrace. No maneuvers, no presses, nor any damage > or special abilities. Is this changed ally the same as another > ally of the same name? I do not agree. This could make for a very, *very* expensive version of The Embrace or 3rd Tradition. They should keep their abilities. I think that the ally that is the recipient of this hypothetical action should also keep their life points as well and not just become a 1 capacity vampire (2 w/skill card). Or else, again, this card would be prohibitively <sp> expensive, in pool and blood. Sorrow -- I don't want to be alone | I hurt, therefore I am anymore |-------------------------------- I don't want to be anyone | "What are you looking at...? anymore | you never seen anyone try to I don't need a reason to kill myself | commit suicide before?" - Anon ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chris Boget (cbo...@apdi.net) wrote: : > > >The Gift Of Eternal Life : > > >Choose an Ally, that ally is now considered an vampire with 1 : capacity. : > Point one-this ally should not keep any of their powers : > prior to the Embrace. No maneuvers, no presses, nor any damage : > or special abilities. Is this changed ally the same as another : > ally of the same name? : I do not agree. This could make for a very, *very* expensive version of : The Embrace or 3rd Tradition. : They should keep their abilities. I think that the ally that is the : recipient of this hypothetical action should also keep their life points as : well and not just become a 1 capacity vampire (2 w/skill card). Or else, : again, this card would be prohibitively <sp> expensive, in pool and blood. Not necessarily expensive, since there are allies with a cost of 1 or 0 pool (Arms Dealer, for instance). Also the card (as written) could be used against another Methuselah's Renegade Garou precisely because that would make it less powerful. : Sorrow [ quoted text not captured ]

: > > >The Gift Of Eternal Life : > > >Choose an Ally, that ally is now considered an vampire with 1capacity. > : This could make for a very, *very* expensive version of The Embrace or 3rd Tradition. > : > : They should keep their abilities. I think that the ally that is the > : recipient of this hypothetical action should also keep their life points as > : well and not just become a 1 capacity vampire (2 w/skill card). Or else, > : again, this card would be prohibitively <sp> expensive, in pool and blood. > > Not necessarily expensive, since there are allies with a cost of 1 or 0 > pool (Arms Dealer, for instance). <in terms of your own controlled allies> True, but why bother with a 2 card combo when you can just use The Embrace or 3rd tradition? And why would you want to make your Arms Dealer a vampire when you would lose the ally's special? Especially because it is that special that made you put him in your deck in the first place. You lose a minion that would allow you to pull a weapon from your deck to get a one capacity vampire. Great trade off... > Also the card (as written) could be used against another Methuselah's Renegade Garou precisely > because that would make it less powerful. <in terms of allies controlled by other meths> This would be really lame. In my opinion, it is worse than any of the actions that allow you to steal an ally. It would be like a huge slap in the face. They lose a 5 pool ally to gain a one capacity vampire. This really rubs me the wrong way. Again, this is just my opinion. [ quoted text not captured ]

staffan.bengtsson wrote: > > Here is some cards I like to see: > > The Gift Of Eternal Life > Picture of an embrace... > Requires a ready vampire. > +1 stealth action > Choose an Ally, that ally is now considered an vampire with 1 capacity. > All options aviable for vampires is now aviable for that ally. > Go through your library, ash heap, or hand to find a Discipline card for > that ally, otherwise, othervise the ally remains at 1 capacity. > This new vampire must hunt the turn he or she is created, and is the same > clan as the acting vampire. > > (Embrace the Allies? About the 1 capacity even if the new vampire was a > Renegade Garou!? A new vampire shouldn't have more than 1 capacity regardless > how tough he is as mortal.) Problems...... Your Garou is now an ABOMINATION...degenerating into uncontrollable madness, soon he will no be your ally (or anyone's). Your saytr...well, nothing I've read even says a Fey's allowed to be Embraced. Most of what I have read says nope..it just dies. I had thought it would be a cool idea....but Can you imagine Malkavian one..the Vampire Hunter...... 4 damage First STRIKE!...he's put the hurt on ANYTHING if you gave him potance or celerity. Just deadly! When that was pointed out to me....Embracing allies didn't seam like such a good idea anymore. Happy New Year. Monica

>In article <01bbf36b$67708c20$0758...@Chris.apdi.net>, "Chris Boget" <cbo...@apdi.net> wrote: > > > > >The Gift Of Eternal Life > > > >Choose an Ally, that ally is now considered an vampire with 1 > capacity. > > Point one-this ally should not keep any of their powers > > prior to the Embrace. No maneuvers, no presses, nor any damage > > or special abilities. Is this changed ally the same as another > > ally of the same name? > > I do not agree. This could make for a very, *very* expensive version of > The Embrace or 3rd Tradition. > They should keep their abilities. I think that the ally that is the > recipient of this hypothetical action should also keep their life points as > well and not just become a 1 capacity vampire (2 w/skill card). Or else, > again, this card would be prohibitively <sp> expensive, in pool and blood. I do not like the idea of certain allies keeping their powers. The Shadow Court Satyr, Gypsies, Renegade Garou, and Succubus pop immediately into my mind, and those are just a few of the allies which could be abused. This immediately bestows all the abilities of a vampire upon the ally, and the ally also begins with a number of special abilities which Progeny do not have. Frankly, I just don't like this card idea. This can be abused horribly by creating a legion of Gypsy Muaziz'zes, or a First Strike Malkavian Vampire Hunter, or a Mummyvamp with +2 hand damage (aggs. vs. Setites) and +1 bleed and who can burn himself to burn a Setite and gets shuffled back into the _library_, or a +1 hand damage regenerating double maneuvering one automatic additional strike each round Gangrel Abomination. If the ally doesn't keep any powers, using The Gift of Eternal Life is worthless, and if the ally does, then it is overpowered. I also think that adjudicating this card would give L. Scott Johnson a headache. Sorry, Sorrow, staffan...you know we'd all have to chip in to pay for Rulemonger's Extra Strength Tylenol. -Nathan Harada

Chris Boget writes: >I do not agree. This could make for a very, *very* expensive version of >The Embrace or 3rd Tradition. >They should keep their abilities. I think that the ally that is the >recipient of this hypothetical action should also keep their life points as >well and not just become a 1 capacity vampire (2 w/skill card). Or else, >again, this card would be prohibitively <sp> expensive, in pool and blood. What if they kept all their abilities, gained capacity equal to their life (total, not current), but didn't get any new disciplines? Only a few have disciplines anyway. It's a shame there isn't some designator as to the "type" of ally it is. Like something to differentiate humans from Garou, from Demons, from Mages, etc. You could do some variable minion cards for allies if their were some designators. Eg: Banality Action Modifier/Reaction (Human) This ally gains either +1 stealth or +1 intercept. Basically, I can't see a Demon or Gargoyle being banal. Designators would make it so you can only "embrace" mortals. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Sat, 28 Dec 96 20:06:36 +1200, da...@schwartz.manawatu.gen.nz (David Schwartz) wrote: >Chris Boget writes: >>I do not agree. This could make for a very, *very* expensive version of >>The Embrace or 3rd Tradition. >>They should keep their abilities. I think that the ally that is the >>recipient of this hypothetical action should also keep their life points as >>well and not just become a 1 capacity vampire (2 w/skill card). Or else, >>again, this card would be prohibitively <sp> expensive, in pool and blood. Uh, no. What this card would do is make allies, which already have their advantages in many cases, almost unkillable. What would burn them as allies or give another player control of them has no effect if they are vampires; they go to torpor instead of the ash heap, and can be rescued and reused. Can you imagine a Renegade Garou who not only has a built in additional strike, an inherent hunting ground, and the attack action and manuver, but goes to torpor instead of being burned, and has potence or protean? Maybe animalism if you want to get uglier with the untaps. That would be _very_ broken. >What if they kept all their abilities, gained capacity equal >to their life (total, not current), but didn't get any new >disciplines? Only a few have disciplines anyway. Even so, the fact that they can't be killed or stolen as easily would make it unbalanced/overpowered. The Renegade Garou, the Muddled vampire hunter, and others, would be disgusting very quickly. Oh, did I forget the War Ghoul, Shadow Court Satyr, and The Bruisers, as well as the Dauntain black magician? What happens to those allies who had no bleed; do they gain the basic 1 bleed that all vampires have, in addition to their special abilities and the security of being a vampire? Sorry, guys, but this card is just bad news. It could be fixed, but it's not worth the huge amound of effort,errata, and complex card text it would take. >It's a shame there isn't some designator as to the "type" >of ally it is. Like something to differentiate humans from >Garou, from Demons, from Mages, etc. You could do some >variable minion cards for allies if their were some designators. >Eg: All the other supernaturals are clearly labeled as such on their cards, with the exception of the succubus, who isn't listed as a demon(not that it matters all that much). Actually, the Black Spiral Buddy might not be either. But I really don't think that such "restrictions" should be made on cards; they would either make the card useless wallpaper if a person doesn't use allies of the righ type, or would make the ally deck too powerful. >Banality >Action Modifier/Reaction (Human) >This ally gains either +1 stealth or +1 intercept. Ow! Think Political Ally, and I believe you can see how this could be broken.... >Basically, I can't see a Demon or Gargoyle being banal. >Designators would make it so you can only "embrace" >mortals. Too complicated, unless you want to have the cards have _really_ small print... Alec Chang

Nathan Harada wrote: > > > > > >The Gift Of Eternal Life > > > > >Choose an Ally, that ally is now considered an vampire with 1 > > capacity. > I do not like the idea of certain allies keeping their powers. > The Shadow Court Satyr, Gypsies, Renegade Garou, and Succubus pop > immediately into my mind, and those are just a few of the allies > which could be abused. This immediately bestows all the abilities > of a vampire upon the ally, and the ally also begins with a number > of special abilities which Progeny do not have. > Frankly, I just don't like this card idea. This can be abused > horribly by creating a legion of Gypsy Muaziz'zes, or a First Strike > Malkavian Vampire Hunter, or a Mummyvamp with +2 hand damage > (aggs. vs. Setites) and +1 bleed and who can burn himself to burn > a Setite and gets shuffled back into the _library_, or a +1 > hand damage regenerating double maneuvering one automatic additional > strike each round Gangrel Abomination. If the ally doesn't keep > any powers, using The Gift of Eternal Life is worthless, and if the > ally does, then it is overpowered. > I also think that adjudicating this card would give L. Scott > Johnson a headache. Sorry, Sorrow, staffan...you know we'd all > have to chip in to pay for Rulemonger's Extra Strength Tylenol. > > -Nathan Harada Luckily, noone from WotC reads this newsgroup, so we don't have to worry about them implementing this idea! ;) -- "...But when the blast of war blows in our ears, | Rob Bush Then imitate the action of the tiger: | (Zam...@moose.erie.net) Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood." | Aspiring Animator, Henry V, Act iii. Sc. 1. | Edinboro U. of PA

David Schwartz <da...@schwartz.manawatu.gen.nz> wrote in article <5a4adq$5...@nr1.vancouver.istar.net>... > What if they kept all their abilities, gained capacity equal > to their life (total, not current), but didn't get any new > disciplines? Only a few have disciplines anyway. This would be fair. I wasn't so much concerned about the ally getting any disciplines as I was concerned about them keeping their abilities. > Banality > Action Modifier/Reaction (Human) > This ally gains either +1 stealth or +1 intercept. A card like this would be nice. One of the most annoying aspects about allies is that very few have special abilities that they can perform at stealth. And because of this, you can just about guarantee that the ally will get blocked. Unless you have an obfuscate deck that has some Cloaks, an ally will never get stealth. [ quoted text not captured ]

Alec Chang writes: >>What if they kept all their abilities, gained capacity equal >>to their life (total, not current), but didn't get any new >>disciplines? Only a few have disciplines anyway. >Even so, the fact that they can't be killed or stolen as easily would >make it unbalanced/overpowered. The Renegade Garou, the Muddled >vampire hunter, and others, would be disgusting very quickly. Oh, did >I forget the War Ghoul, Shadow Court Satyr, and The Bruisers, as well >as the Dauntain black magician? What happens to those allies who had >no bleed; do they gain the basic 1 bleed that all vampires have, in >addition to their special abilities and the security of being a >vampire? Nope. Basically, if I making this card, I'd just make it so the Ally stays pretty much the same, except that he's now a vampire. Same bleed; Same strike; Cap would be equal to the Ally's base life; No disciplines (yet) except those they had in life. How to balance it out? Well, I wouldn't restrict it to titled vampires -- the Assamite, in particular, only embrace trusted allies. Stealth I'd leave at +1, no logical reason to change that. A pool cost should do the job. Add that to the high cost of most Allies and that should balance it out. Reality check: I'd make one restriction: Not usable on other undead. Eg Wraiths and Mummies. They tend to be the high end of Allies anyway. I'd add Demon to this list, if it were designated. Mages should technically lose their spells, but since they're represented by disciplines anyway, we'll just assume the spells are replaced by those disciplines. Garou would become Abominations, if it matters. In short: Gift of Eternal Life Action 1 pool +1 stealth Choose an ally you control. This ally cannot be a Demon, Mummy, or Wraith, and must have less base life than the acting vampire's capacity. This Ally becomes a vampire. This new vampire is of the same clan as the acting vampire and has capacity equal to its base life. The new vampire has no blood (or life) and must hunt as its next action. I think I've covered everything. -- >>Banality >>Action Modifier/Reaction (Human) >>This ally gains either +1 stealth or +1 intercept. Here's my 'fixed' version: Banality Act Mod/Reaction This ally gains either +1 stealth or +1 intercept. An Ally may only use one Banality per action. >Ow! Think Political Ally, and I believe you can see how this could be >broken.... With the fix, I don't see a problem. If you don't have intercept, you deserve to be bleed. (Or you could use rush, and make Political Pancakes.) [ quoted text not captured ]

>What if they kept all their abilities, gained capacity equal >to their life (total, not current), but didn't get any new >disciplines? Only a few have disciplines anyway. >It's a shame there isn't some designator as to the "type" >of ally it is. Like something to differentiate humans from >Garou, from Demons, from Mages, etc. You could do some >variable minion cards for allies if their were some designators. >Eg: >Banality >Action Modifier/Reaction (Human) >This ally gains either +1 stealth or +1 intercept. >Basically, I can't see a Demon or Gargoyle being banal. >Designators would make it so you can only "embrace" >mortals. I do miss this... in RAGE many cards have a short description on them telling what they are. This give RAGE more conections to Werewolf than Jyhad is to Vampire. It also gives the gameplay something more than just a cardgame that says +1 stealth +1 power or -1/+2. Manling pendant - rage card "The bearer of the manling pendant carries a reminder of man's injustice to womankind. She may discard the pendant in combat with a male opponent and immiedetly enter frenzy. This frenzy may not be canceled, nor may it be prevented by any circumstance (like a new moon). The frenzy ends normally". Also there are many cards that only affects spirits, changelings, vampires, mages and so on.

>Uh, no. What this card would do is make allies, which already have >their advantages in many cases, almost unkillable. What would burn >them as allies or give another player control of them has no effect if >they are vampires; they go to torpor instead of the ash heap, and can >be rescued and reused. Can you imagine a Renegade Garou who not only >has a built in additional strike, an inherent hunting ground, and the >attack action and manuver, but goes to torpor instead of being burned, >and has potence or protean? Maybe animalism if you want to get uglier >with the untaps. That would be _very_ broken. If you look at the vampires you see that "capacity points" give special abilities. Renegade Garou have no disciplines and have 1 capacity and have sppecial abilities of 5 pool. Also, if you add the disciplines afterwards it would take some time to get him real good. Compare this with Watenda in a Assamite deck... - I dodge - NOT! - Haha majesty - NOT! He take some time to get powerful, you have to give him sup celerity and quitus, but his special ability make him very powerful. >Even so, the fact that they can't be killed or stolen as easily would >make it unbalanced/overpowered. The Renegade Garou, the Muddled >vampire hunter, and others, would be disgusting very quickly. Oh, did >I forget the War Ghoul, Shadow Court Satyr, and The Bruisers, as well >as the Dauntain black magician? What happens to those allies who had >no bleed; do they gain the basic 1 bleed that all vampires have, in >addition to their special abilities and the security of being a >vampire? No ally should get capacity equal to their lives. All new vampires regardless of their mortal powers have a blood capacity at 1. (Or in the roleplaying game, if you are embraced by a 9 generation vampire you will be a 10 generation vampire, regardless if you are Bill Gates or Arnold Swarzenegger). Malkavian Muddled Vampirehunter would be placed inot a malkavian deck, and then he would only get obfuscate, dominate and auspex. Ofcourse you cazn put him in another deck, but you could put make cards into other decks to make decks more powerful. Like fortitide in a malkavian deck. >Sorry, guys, but this card is just bad news. It could be fixed, but >it's not worth the huge amound of effort,errata, and complex card text >it would take. It can be done. With some thinking it SHOULD be possible. >All the other supernaturals are clearly labeled as such on their >cards, with the exception of the succubus, who isn't listed as a >demon(not that it matters all that much). Actually, the Black Spiral >Buddy might not be either. But I really don't think that such >"restrictions" should be made on cards; they would either make the >card useless wallpaper if a person doesn't use allies of the righ >type, or would make the ally deck too powerful. Ally decks is already to powerful. Have you seen a weenie gangrel - malkav deck, voting for Autarkis Percecution, bringing out some muddld vampire hunters and some renegade Garous and then starts the beating on people with Memories Of Mortality. I have, and god I dont want to meet such decks again. >Ow! Think Political Ally, and I believe you can see how this could be >broken.... Political Ally have still 1 life and costs 3 blood.

>Not necessarily expensive, since there are allies with a cost of 1 or 0 >pool (Arms Dealer, for instance). Also the card (as written) could be >used against another Methuselah's Renegade Garou precisely because that >would make it less powerful. LESS powerful? He lose one life, so WHAT!? He cant die normaly nomore... He can use disciplines, vampire cards, vote, become prince and so on, he also gains one blood each untap phase if life is counted as blood.

>I do not agree. This could make for a very, *very* expensive version of >The Embrace or 3rd Tradition. >They should keep their abilities. I think that the ally that is the >recipient of this hypothetical action should also keep their life points as >well and not just become a 1 capacity vampire (2 w/skill card). Or else, >again, this card would be prohibitively <sp> expensive, in pool and blood. They should not keep their original life. There is no difference if Arnold Swarzenegger or Bill Gates gets embraced, they are both at 1 capacity. Its the vampire blood, not the muscles, that do a vampire. The card is more powerful than you think. If you embrace the correct allys, then it would be very powerful. Try to embrace renegade Garou. The garou could get fortitude... Great, you now have a vampire that have a free bums rush, +1 hand damage, 1 manouver each combat and one adittional strike each combat that ALSO may prevent and ALSO (if we count life as blood now days) have a built in hunting ground. give him protean and he can do aggrevated hand damage... How about Ambtosius The Ferry Man... Combine him with puleld fangs.... GREAT... He could onoly be hurt of aggrevated damage, and when he takes no damage RIP, the opposing vampire have no teeth anymore.

staffan....@mailbox.swipnet.se (staffan.bengtsson) writes: >The Gift Of Eternal Life >Picture of an embrace... >Requires a ready vampire. >+1 stealth action >Choose an Ally, that ally is now considered an vampire with 1 capacity. >All options aviable for vampires is now aviable for that ally. >Go through your library, ash heap, or hand to find a Discipline card for >that ally, otherwise, othervise the ally remains at 1 capacity. >This new vampire must hunt the turn he or she is created, and is the same >clan as the acting vampire. >(Embrace the Allies? About the 1 capacity even if the new vampire was a >Renegade Garou!? A new vampire shouldn't have more than 1 capacity regardless >how tough he is as mortal.) Should have explicit text to remove the life counters from the Ally when embraced. Then the hunt becomes inherently mandatory. >Renew the cycle >Picture of a couple of silluettes that raise their arms in the air with a >glow of something above them. >Master >3 pool >Shuffle your ash heap into your library. >(I always use 100 card decks... But my friends use 150-200 card decks... >my fast decks are ousted very soon from play... so I need something like this >=\ ) You play 16-player games? Or you just ignore the deck size restrictions? Three pool for a Timetwister/MIT West Tier is a little extreme (And you should have text removing the "Renew the Cycle" card from the game when played). >Survivial instincts >Picture of a injured vampire that still go strong. >Combat. 2 blood. >You play this round as normal, even if some other card prevents you from >playing certain cards. >In this round of combat you may prevent non-preventable damage. >(This work against hidden Lurker, Fast Reactions, Thoughts Betrayed, >Immortal Grapple and all not prevenatble cards... To bad its an >"anti-other-cards-like-a-magicTG-card".) It doesn't work against TB. TB is a "as combat is entered" card, and beats all other combat cards. It probably doesn't overcome the "unpreventable damage" movdifiers of certain effects (and rightfully so). >Ban the damn thing! >Picture of the back of a Magic TG card. >Master, Out Of Turn 5 pool >Only useable when another methusalah play a card. That card is burned and >no more of that card may be played in the game. >(Just joking =) ) :-) Add a "That card is physically destroyed" (ripped to shreds), and it might be worth the cost. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Neurotic: http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | Self-taut person. Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |

>>Survivial instincts >>Picture of a injured vampire that still go strong. >>Combat. 2 blood. >>You play this round as normal, even if some other card prevents you from >>playing certain cards. >>In this round of combat you may prevent non-preventable damage. >>(This work against hidden Lurker, Fast Reactions, Thoughts Betrayed, >>Immortal Grapple and all not prevenatble cards... To bad its an >>"anti-other-cards-like-a-magicTG-card".) >It doesn't work against TB. TB is a "as combat is entered" card, >and beats all other combat cards. >It probably doesn't overcome the "unpreventable damage" movdifiers >of certain effects (and rightfully so). Add " This card is always playable, under any circumstances.".

> staffan.bengtsson wrote: > I do miss this... in RAGE many cards have a short description on them telling > what they are. > This give RAGE more conections to Werewolf than Jyhad is to Vampire. > It also gives the gameplay something more than just a cardgame that says > +1 stealth +1 power or -1/+2. > Manling pendant - rage card > "The bearer of the manling pendant carries a reminder of man's injustice to > womankind. She may discard the pendant in combat with a male opponent and > immiedetly enter frenzy. This frenzy may not be canceled, nor may it be > prevented by any circumstance (like a new moon). The frenzy ends normally". > Also there are many cards that only affects spirits, changelings, vampires, > mages and so on. Okay. Point one: Rage is totally unfair. There is more of a connection to the WoD: Werewolf the Apocalypse, but that is because both those games are flawed. There is no reason why a card like Mangle should be printed, yet the people at White Wolf thought that there should be a card which totally incapacitates an opposing werewolf because you should be able to do it in W:tA by beating the hell out of the other guy. Oh, and look, I have a Klaive. Now unless you can use a card that heals aggravated damage, you can never play combat cards with that werewolf again. Drawing connections between certain established parts of the WoD is a quick and easy way to make broken cards. For example, there should be a Society of Leopold, meant to hunt down vampires. The Society of Leopold in Jyhad, however, is able to burn a vampire with no blood or to completely incapacitate a vampire with one blood. This card is unfair, and the WoD precedence of the Society of Leopold doesn't make it any better. Second point: Allies are less powerful in Jyhad than in Rage. Cards which affect allies, such as Far Mastery and Release the Shackled Soul, are less important. Cards which would affect only a few select types of allies, such as Changelings or Mages, would be even less useful. There are _two_ changelings, six mages, two Garou, at least eight human-types (including Gypsies) and an assortment of everything else. A card which affected only Mages would probably be wallpaper, or either a Tremere/antitribu hoser or a boon. Cards do not need WoD precedence or connections, IMO, because those cards which have appeared with WoD connections have ignored boundaries of taste and common sense. I submit Francois Villon...Chantry...Society of Leopold...War Ghoul... -Nathan Harada _______________________________________________________________ I am going to burn down the world I am going to tear down everything that cannot stand alone I am going to turn ideals to shit I am going to shove hope up your ass I am going to reduce everything that stands to rubble And then I am going to burn the rubble And then I am going to scatter the ashes And then maybe SOMEONE will be able to see SOMETHING as it really is WATCH OUT -- Mel Lyman _____________________________________________________________

[ quoted text not captured ] Not to get picky, but then you could play the card even if you didn't have the two blood to pay for it. It gets pretty messy when your goal is to circumvent a card that breaks a basic pardigm (And TB breaks the most basic paradigm - cards are meant to be played). I'm all for playing the card are you intend, but getting the card worded properly so that it works explicitly is going to be a headache. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | * - Tribble http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | (-*-) - Darth Tribble in his Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | TIE Fighter

Im sorry for bringing RAGE inot this Vampire meeting. > Okay. Point one: Rage is totally unfair. There is more of a >connection to the WoD: Werewolf the Apocalypse, but that is because >both those games are flawed. There is no reason why a card like >Mangle should be printed, yet the people at White Wolf thought that >there should be a card which totally incapacitates an opposing >werewolf because you should be able to do it in W:tA by beating the >hell out of the other guy. Oh, and look, I have a Klaive. Now >unless you can use a card that heals aggravated damage, you can >never play combat cards with that werewolf again. We have fixed up much of the cards, and many other cards have arrived to fix old broken cards... Ok, I dont really like that idea: "ok, a card is broken, we do one more broken card to make that up" but the new cards in RAGE actually worked. Aggrevated Mangle isnt fun, but there are multiple ways to heal that wound now. > Drawing connections between certain established parts of >the WoD is a quick and easy way to make broken cards. For example, >there should be a Society of Leopold, meant to hunt down vampires. >The Society of Leopold in Jyhad, however, is able to burn a vampire >with no blood or to completely incapacitate a vampire with one blood. >This card is unfair, and the WoD precedence of the Society of >Leopold doesn't make it any better. Thats correct. Society Of Leopold is one more of this "Burn a vampire with one card" in V:Tes, vampire have becomed a lesser powerful version of Magic TG. What more can I say? > Second point: Allies are less powerful in Jyhad than in >Rage. Cards which affect allies, such as Far Mastery and Release >the Shackled Soul, are less important. Cards which would affect >only a few select types of allies, such as Changelings or Mages, >would be even less useful. There are _two_ changelings, six >mages, two Garou, at least eight human-types (including Gypsies) >and an assortment of everything else. A card which affected only >Mages would probably be wallpaper, or either a Tremere/antitribu >hoser or a boon. in fact, there are two garou and a garou pack... But I Agree. You have much more use of Anti-mage cards in Rage than in Vampire. > Cards do not need WoD precedence or connections, IMO, >because those cards which have appeared with WoD connections >have ignored boundaries of taste and common sense. I submit >Francois Villon...Chantry...Society of Leopold...War Ghoul... The point with vampire, the reason why I first started to play the game, is that its was a game that was built on my favorite roleplaying game - Vampire TM. Now there have arrived multiple cards that have nothing to do with Vampire at all that make the gameplay more boring. Vampire was also a game based on more strategy than Magic TG, you could feel a friendship with your vampires rather than "I have one more 1/2 goblin", You could say that "Crusher is really cool" or "Democritius rule you all", And its a fact that Vampire is more Magic TG now than ever, with Counterspells, "Bury Target Creature", deal X damage to target player... and so on.