Infernal Familiar
Type: Retainer
Requires: Thaumaturgy
Cost: 2 blood
Demon with 2 life.
[tha] The vampire with this retainer can play a card that requires a
Discipline he or she does not have as if he or she had the basic level
of that Discipline; if he or she does so, place an investment counter
on the Infernal Familiar. If the number of investment counters on the
Familiar is greater than this vampire's capacity, burn this vampire.
Haven Affinity
Type: Master
Requires: Tzimisce
Cost: 1 pool
Unique master.
Put this card on a Tzimisce. When this Tzimisce blocks, he or she may
play combat cards in the resulting combat as if all of his or her
Disciplines were at the superior level.
How do these two interact? Can Sascha Vyckos with a Infernal Familiar
and a Haven Affinity play Thanatosis cards at the superior level when
she/he/it blocks?
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
[ quoted text not captured ]
I would suggest you google your old posts, like "Haven Affinity Ian" to
see you answer yourself in a similar question :P
"Jay Kristoff" <j...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:hsTI8.76748$G%3.314...@typhoon.columbus.rr.com...
> vermillian wrote:
> >Ian CIs to a Tzimisce. Gets a Haven Affinity. Does he now >play all
> disciplines at superior when blocking?> Ian's text says: " Ian can play cards of any Discipline as though he has
the
> basic level of that Discipline."> Haven Affinity says: "Put this card on a Tzimisce. When this Tzimisce> blocks, he or she may play combat cards in the resulting combat as if all
of
> his or her Disciplines were at the superior level."
I can tell you that it is a definative no. Read the card. Ian doesn't
have
the disciplines so it doesn't affect those given by his special.
I tried to break it too. :)
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr.
[ quoted text not captured ]
> I would suggest you google your old posts, like "Haven Affinity Ian" to
> see you answer yourself in a similar question :P
I tried to break Ian Forrestal in the Sabbat War playtest as well.
The difference in the wording is why I am asking.
Ian Forestal
Clan: Tremere antitribu (group 2)
Capacity: 8
Disciplines: AUS DOM THA
Sabbat: Ian may play cards that require a Discipline **as though** he
has the basic level of that Discipline. Each Master: Discipline card
placed on him gives him the superior level of that Discipline.
Infernal Familiar
Type: Retainer
Requires: Thaumaturgy
Cost: 2 blood
Demon with 2 life.
[tha] The vampire with this retainer can play a card ***that requires a
Discipline he or she does not have as if he or she had the basic level
of that Discipline****; if he or she does so, place an investment
counter on the Infernal Familiar. If the number of investment counters
on the Familiar is greater than this vampire's capacity, burn this
vampire.
Haven Affinity
Type: Master
Requires: Tzimisce
Cost: 1 pool
Unique master.
Put this card on a Tzimisce. When this Tzimisce blocks, he or she may
play combat cards in the resulting combat as ***if all of his or her
Disciplines were at the superior level.***
It is a judgement call, but I see it going either way.
Mechanically, as I see it.
Sascha Vyckos has an infernal familiar and a haven uncovered.
He blocks Smudge the Ignored.
No manuever
No pre-strike
Smudge declares hands
Sascha wants to play the withering. The Withering requires Thanitosis.
The Withering checks Sascha Vyckos for Thanitosis. The infernal
familiar activates and acts as if Sascha Vycos has the basic level of
thanitosis.
At this point in time, Sascha Vyckos then choses which level he or she
is going to play it. Haven Uncovered sees the Infernal Familiar's
effect of temporraily granting him the basic level of thanitosis and
allows him to play it at superior.
[ quoted text not captured ]
On Dec 7, 6:12 pm, "XZealot" <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
> > I would suggest you google your old posts, like "Haven Affinity Ian" to
> > see you answer yourself in a similar question :P
> I tried to break Ian Forrestal in the Sabbat War playtest as well.
>
> The difference in the wording is why I am asking.
I would focus on the wording as such:
Ian Forestal
Clan: Tremere antitribu (group 2)
Capacity: 8
Disciplines: AUS DOM THA
Sabbat: Ian may play cards that require a Discipline ***as though he
has the basic level of that Discipline***. Each Master: Discipline card
placed on him gives him the superior level of that Discipline.
Infernal Familiar
Type: Retainer
Requires: Thaumaturgy
Cost: 2 blood
Demon with 2 life.
[tha] The vampire with this retainer can play a card that requires a
Discipline he or she does not have ***as if he or she had the basic
level
of that Discipline***; if he or she does so, place an investment
counter on the Infernal Familiar. If the number of investment counters
on the Familiar is greater than this vampire's capacity, burn this
vampire.
Seems perfectly parallel to me, unless you want to make "though" vs.
"if" do a lot of heavy lifting.
> Sascha wants to play the withering. The Withering requires Thanitosis.
> The Withering checks Sascha Vyckos for Thanitosis. The infernal
> familiar activates and acts as if Sascha Vycos has the basic level of
> thanitosis.
>
> At this point in time, Sascha Vyckos then choses which level he or she
> is going to play it. Haven Uncovered sees the Infernal Familiar's
> effect of temporraily granting him the basic level of thanitosis and
> allows him to play it at superior.
Interesting theory, although I'd wager it looks at what disciplines he
or she "has" as opposed to which ones he can "play cards as if/though
he has." Which you knew already from your own Ian posting.
[ quoted text not captured ]
[ quoted text not captured ]
Uh, no. There's no two distinct timing phases of playing the card. When
he tries to play the Withering, he declares if it is being played at
superior or basic as he plays it. There's no '1) can i play the card at
all? 2) What level do I play it at?' staging.
The withering doesn't 'check sasha for Thanatosis' and _then_ look for
the level being attempted; either the play is a legal one or it isn't
from the get-go.
> Haven Uncovered sees the Infernal Familiar's
> effect of temporraily granting him the basic level of thanitosis and
> allows him to play it at superior.
In this case, the Superior Withering looks for Superior Thanatosis on
Sasha. The Infernal Familiar doesn't allow you to play Superior cards,
so is ignored; Haven Affinity doesn't see Thanatosis on Sasha and
likewise has no effect, making it an illegal play.
Also: Infernal Familiar does not grant the basic level of Thanatosis,
period. The InFam allows you to play cards despite _not having_ a
discipline ('as if she had it') - it has no text saying that you get
the discipline for the duration (check the language of any of several
effects that do grant you the discipline for a counter-example,
including the Vitae Slave, Vial of Elder Vitae, etc.)
The Haven Affinity lets you play cards as if all the Vampires'
disciplines are at superior; however they don't actually get those
disciplines from Ian or an Infernal Familiar (as has been ruled several
times in different threads by LSJ), so the Affinity never comes into
effect on those InFam plays.
> Comments Welcome,
> Norman S. Brown, Jr
> XZealot
> Archon of the Swamp
-John Flournoy
[ quoted text not captured ]
Correct.
>> Sascha wants to play the withering. The Withering requires Thanitosis.
>> The Withering checks Sascha Vyckos for Thanitosis. The infernal
>> familiar activates and acts as if Sascha Vycos has the basic level of
>> thanitosis.
>>
>> At this point in time, Sascha Vyckos then choses which level he or she
>> is going to play it. Haven Uncovered sees the Infernal Familiar's
>> effect of temporraily granting him the basic level of thanitosis and
>> allows him to play it at superior.>
> Interesting theory, although I'd wager it looks at what disciplines he
> or she "has" as opposed to which ones he can "play cards as if/though
> he has." Which you knew already from your own Ian posting.
Correct.