[LSJ] Tourney Legal use for Proxies?

I had a situation come up at a previous event, where a player had an all Vampire backed deck (no Jyhad) except for one card. The player owned a Jyhad backed Ventrue Justicar Political Action, and asked if he could proxy a Vampire backed Tremere Justicar PA for the event so that his library wouldn't be considered marked. I allowed it, and the other players had no issue. In this instance it was only one card in question, which is another reason there was no real issue and believe it was handled in a sportsmanlike manner. However if the player showed up with multiple "vaild" proxies, I would have been inclined to disallow the deck. Is there something in the VEKN rules that cover this scenario? Regards, BernieTime Lansing, Michigan

[ quoted text not captured ] If someone has a deck like this he should just use non-seethrough sleeves. That solves the problem.

[ quoted text not captured ] VEKN 4.5 (Proxy cards) -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

berni...@attbi.comHOLDLeSPAM schrieb: >I had a situation come up at a previous event, where a player had an all >Vampire backed deck (no Jyhad) except for one card. >The player owned a Jyhad backed Ventrue Justicar Political Action, and >asked if he could proxy a Vampire backed Tremere Justicar PA for the >event so that his library wouldn't be considered marked. hi, the way i see this: before play starts he realises that he has a jyhad backed card in his deck. so he asks another player if he could lend him a vampire backed version of the card in question. the other player agrees. therefore this is not a proxy card, but a legal card. i don't think that posession of a card is a valid point to discern if the card is a proxy. i think most people have borrowed cards for tournaments, and noone has ever claimed it to be a _proxy_. regards Chris.QJ VEKN Prince of Vienna [ quoted text not captured ]

Chris.QJ wrote: > berni...@attbi.comHOLDLeSPAM schrieb: >>The player owned a Jyhad backed Ventrue Justicar Political Action, and >>asked if he could proxy a Vampire backed Tremere Justicar PA for the >>event so that his library wouldn't be considered marked. > > the way i see this: > > before play starts he realises that he has a jyhad backed card in his > deck. so he asks another player if he could lend him a vampire backed > version of the card in question. > > i think most people have borrowed cards for tournaments, and noone has > ever claimed it to be a _proxy_. A card used to represent itself is not a proxy. A card used to represent a different card, as in the case Bernie presents, is a proxy. Note the switch in the case presented - using a Tremere Justicar card to represent a Ventrue Justicar card. [ quoted text not captured ]

Chris.QJ <kut...@gmx.atNOSPAM> wrote in message news:<74ml7vcnvu7342u7f...@4ax.com>... > berni...@attbi.comHOLDLeSPAM schrieb: > > >I had a situation come up at a previous event, where a player had an all > >Vampire backed deck (no Jyhad) except for one card. > >The player owned a Jyhad backed Ventrue Justicar Political Action, and > >asked if he could proxy a Vampire backed Tremere Justicar PA for the > >event so that his library wouldn't be considered marked. > > hi, > > the way i see this: > > before play starts he realises that he has a jyhad backed card in his > deck. so he asks another player if he could lend him a vampire backed > version of the card in question. > the other player agrees. > therefore this is not a proxy card, but a legal card. > i don't think that posession of a card is a valid point to discern if > the card is a proxy. Chris, please re-read the original post: He proxied a Ventrue Justicar with a Tremere Justicar, and did not just swap a Jyhad-backed version with the VTES one. This is covered by the tournament rules (4.5 Proxy Cards), as LSJ indicated. This rule does allow proxies, as long as they are permitted by the judge - so the sceanrio that originally started the thread seams quite legal to me (Judge and all players were informed and consented to use of the proxy card). Hardy Range Prince of Bochum http://www.vekn.de [ quoted text not captured ]

On 21 Mar 2003 05:49:28 -0800, hardy...@gmx.de (Hardy Range) wrote: >Chris, > >please re-read the original post: >He proxied a Ventrue Justicar with a Tremere Justicar, and did not >just swap a Jyhad-backed version with the VTES one. ah, right, sorry *whackshimselfonthehead* better now Chris.QJ