When is V:tes coming out?

yeah, well, you know i was just sort of wondering..... i mean, july was quite a while ago..... thanks.... matt.

[ quoted text not captured ] A friend of mine who knows several distributors says that V:tES is now due in November and DS in December. This will be after Homelands and (more significantly) after Netrunner (which means Netrunner won't be jinxed by the likely commercial failure of V:tES). Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)

In article <4482t3$6...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> curt...@aol.com (CurtAdams) writes: >[...] (which means Netrunner won't be jinxed by >the likely commercial failure of V:tES). What a pity. Players would have loved the new card layout and such, if not for that stupid decision on card backs... I would have supported V:tES (and may even buy some new cards) if they just keep the backs. Sigh. -- "Live Life with Heart." Alan Kwan kw...@cs.cornell.edu

aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes: >CurtAdams <curt...@aol.com> wrote: >>A friend of mine who knows several distributors says that V:tES is now due >>in November and DS in December. This will be after Homelands and (more >>significantly) after Netrunner (which means Netrunner won't be jinxed by >>the likely commercial failure of V:tES). >First, Netrunner is not going to be out until February. Nixes my theory on that. >Second, we don't think that VTES is going to fail. The opinion that it > will is held mainly by people who hate the card back change and > have decided that they are going to do what they can to get > VTES to fail, apparently under the theory that this would cause > us to undo the VTES changes, which is not going to happen. Frankly, it's hard for me to find somebody who DOESN'T hate the change. But, the effects of the change per se on purchases are somewhat unclear. The reason I am sure V:tES will flop (in the commercial sense, not necessarily the play sense) is that it is basically a reprint of a grossly overprinted game. I just saw another mailorder place firesale their Jyhad for $26 plus shipping, and boxes are readily available for 35-40. Who'll pay 60-70 for slightly altered cards? >Third, VTES has not been pushed back deliberately. We would like nothing > more than for it to be on the streets already, but circumstances > have prevented this. I'll accept that, but I maintain that delays are in WotC's interest. In addition to the reprint issue, older players drop out, (to attrition or to disgust with the change) and that will leave fewer active players to object to the change. If you waited 5 years, it'd go off without any such hitches. Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)

CurtAdams <curt...@aol.com> wrote: >A friend of mine who knows several distributors says that V:tES is now due >in November and DS in December. This will be after Homelands and (more >significantly) after Netrunner (which means Netrunner won't be jinxed by >the likely commercial failure of V:tES). First, Netrunner is not going to be out until February. Second, we don't think that VTES is going to fail. The opinion that it will is held mainly by people who hate the card back change and have decided that they are going to do what they can to get VTES to fail, apparently under the theory that this would cause us to undo the VTES changes, which is not going to happen. Third, VTES has not been pushed back deliberately. We would like nothing more than for it to be on the streets already, but circumstances have prevented this. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

In article <44etao$8...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, curt...@aol.com (CurtAdams) writes: >The reason I am sure V:tES will flop (in the commercial sense, not >necessarily the play sense) is that it is basically a reprint of a grossly >overprinted game. I just saw another mailorder place firesale their Jyhad >for $26 plus shipping, and boxes are readily available for 35-40. Who'll >pay 60-70 for slightly altered cards? > This whole DS, VTES thing is very frustrating. Jyhad is never going to be commercially competitive with M:TG, and so will always be sort of an afterthought for WotC. My local card shop is now carrying expansion sets, for Doomtrooper, and Rage. These games can have expansions, yet we have to wait 'til '96 for DS? Unreal. Btw, would you happen to have a phone # for the place firesaling their Jyhad boxes for $26. Thanks, Lee

So, as I've asked before, when can we expect Dark Sovereigns? Sometime after V:TES? The same time as? Please give a best guess. Thank you. - Neil -- nwbe...@unix.amherst.edu, lentus in umbra | nudus ara, sere nudus... in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro

CurtAdams <curt...@aol.com> wrote: >The reason I am sure V:tES will flop (in the commercial sense, not >necessarily the play sense) is that it is basically a reprint of a grossly >overprinted game. I just saw another mailorder place firesale their Jyhad >for $26 plus shipping, and boxes are readily available for 35-40. Who'll >pay 60-70 for slightly altered cards? First, keep in mind that the downward spiral has been during a period when there have been no expansions, no PPGs, etc. The marketing has helped (the effects have been seen in some areas), but it's probably going to take full support of the game that's visible on the street (as opposed to net coverage and R&D cycles) to get the game going again. Second, there are several markets that had no clue of Jyhad's existence (or of what it was about), but that planning on carrying V:TES. >>Third, VTES has not been pushed back deliberately. We would like nothing >> more than for it to be on the streets already, but circumstances >> have prevented this. >I'll accept that, but I maintain that delays are in WotC's interest. >In addition to the reprint issue, older players drop out, (to attrition or >to disgust with the change) and that will leave fewer active players to >object to the change. If you waited 5 years, it'd go off without any such >hitches. The people who live with the change are going to drop out no matter when we release the new game/edition, and regardless of how good it is. Losing players to attrition is always a bad thing; while some attrition is inevitable, you don't want it overwhelming the influx of new players. Delays just generate negative interest in the product, and encourage attrition, even among those otherwise inclined to continue playing. (Why wait 6 months for a game's new edition, or an expansion, when you can try a new game today?) These are basically the reasons why the delays are not a good thing. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <44fgvg$g...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, KButter940 <kbutt...@aol.com> wrote: >This whole DS, VTES thing is very frustrating. Jyhad is never going to be >commercially competitive with M:TG, and so will always be sort of an >afterthought for WotC. My local card shop is now carrying expansion sets, >for Doomtrooper, and Rage. These games can have expansions, yet we have to >wait 'til '96 for DS? Unreal. Actually, I think by eagerly anticipating Dark Sovereigns you are eagerly anticipating the destruction of any semblance of game balance in Jyhad. Presumably Dark Sovereigns will include new small vampires with a mix of old and new disciplines...meaning it will be that much easier to fill your crypt with small vampires from a variety of clans all of whom have Auspex, or all of whom have Animalism, or...and so forth. Right now, there is a delicate balance in vampire availability with respect to generation and disciplines. Adding more clans, each with one new discipline and two old ones, will almost certainly screw that to the moon. Unless there is some imiscibility rule for the new clans, which really wouldn't make a lot of sense in Word of Darkness terms, I don't see how the addition of new vampires and clans can fail to munchkinize Jyhad towards weenie single-discipline decks.

aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) wrote: > >CurtAdams <curt...@aol.com> wrote: >>A friend of mine who knows several distributors says that V:tES is now due >>in November and DS in December. This will be after Homelands and (more >>significantly) after Netrunner (which means Netrunner won't be jinxed by >>the likely commercial failure of V:tES). > >First, Netrunner is not going to be out until February. >Second, we don't think that VTES is going to fail. The opinion that it > will is held mainly by people who hate the card back change and > have decided that they are going to do what they can to get > VTES to fail, apparently under the theory that this would cause > us to undo the VTES changes, which is not going to happen. >Third, VTES has not been pushed back deliberately. We would like nothing > more than for it to be on the streets already, but circumstances > have prevented this. > > >Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for >aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc. > Your message implies (no states) that V:tES will have a different back. As a consumer - This, how do I state it politically correct, is terrible (would have loved to say it sucked, but...) I own a whole collection of Jyhad and now your changing the back? STUPID. I stopped buying TSR's blood wars (even though I liked it) because they made the collosal blunder to say that they were stopping support in two years. Now I'm going to stop buying Jyhad or whatever because you guys can't get your act together. I spent too much money to feel good about buying the same exact cards to make sure my deck doesn't stand out with different backed cards. UGH. While I'm at it, I might as well say that the way you've (WOTC) has manipulated the market has made me very disatisfied. I love magic, for the game, but am disgusted when I can't find my first pack of Ice ages (going back in time) and people at the same shop have complete sets. Your distribution schemes are not well thought out and I'm afraid the average player is suffering for it. I've been a player since Antiquties and mourn what has become of magic at the hands of speculators, collectors and your distribution problems. Sincerely Richard J. Radgoski

Neil Bernstein <nwbe...@news.amherst.edu> wrote: >So, as I've asked before, when can we expect Dark Sovereigns? Sometime >after V:TES? The same time as? Please give a best guess. Thank you. They should both be out before the end of the year. Dark Sovereigns will be out after VTES. [ quoted text not captured ]

k...@cerl.uiuc.edu (K R Maxson) writes: >Actually, I think by eagerly anticipating Dark Sovereigns you are eagerly >anticipating the destruction of any semblance of game balance in Jyhad. >Presumably Dark Sovereigns will include new small vampires with a mix of >old and new disciplines...meaning it will be that much easier to fill >your crypt with small vampires from a variety of clans all of whom have >Auspex, or all of whom have Animalism, or...and so forth. >Right now, there is a delicate balance in vampire availability with respect >to generation and disciplines. Adding more clans, each with one new discipline >and two old ones, will almost certainly screw that to the moon. I think you're overstating the case here. New clans and disciplines certainly perturb the game balance, but I don't think the balances are "delicate". I think they're pretty tough, actually. The only concern I have long-term is that I think the clan hosers will be largely wallpaper if the number of clans doubles from 7 to 13. >Unless there is some imiscibility rule for the new clans, which really >wouldn't make a lot of sense in Word of Darkness terms, I don't see how >the addition of new vampires and clans can fail to munchkinize Jyhad >towards weenie single-discipline decks. Well, there's already two disicipline with three clans. There will be several more with the new clans, but still no discipline will have more than three clans. Mono-discipline decks don't seem to run off with the game; I find that mono-clan decks are generally more robust. Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)

As to your magic woes I would sell them now before the bottom drops, I sold my magic and made a Killing,As far as specking is concerned thats how I have been able to afford cards. Magic made me money to buy Jyhad plus Rage and the rage specking is paying for itself plus some.Plus it paid for Blood Wars but This game is seriously flawed,to bad it had some neat concepts.

On the other hand though if there are to many expansions I feel it would ruin Jyhad. Errol

Before I could do anything to stop it, Errol T wrote: > On the other hand though if there are to many expansions I feel it would > ruin Jyhad. This is an interesting point. How long before Magic collapses under it's own weight? How many expansions can a game endure before it becomes unmanageable? -- "It's at the end of his arm," thought Frito, nervously | Brian shaking it, "it's got to be a hand." | Wilson

In article <459278$1q...@hopi.gate.net>, Brian Wilson <bwi...@news.gate.net> wrote: >This is an interesting point. How long before Magic collapses under it's >own weight? How many expansions can a game endure before it becomes >unmanageable? About 2 less than it has had. Fallen Empires started the general collapse of sane continuity, and Ice Ages is busy finishing the job. I don't even want to THINK about Homelands. gnfnrf

In article <452697$k...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes: > > Errol T <etre...@compusmart.ab.ca> wrote: > >Quite frankly the thing that has hurt Jyhad the most imo is the lack of > >an expansion. > > That and the lack of a PPG, but both of those problems will be fixed by > end of year (cross fingers!), and plans for more expansions next year > are already rolling. > > > Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for > aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc. oh yeah, like Dark Sovereigns is ever REALLY coming out. i think WotC is just giving us something to talk about while they wait for us all to get tired of jyhad and go back to magic.....*smile*..... .

Before I could do anything to stop it, blue gothic wrote: > oh yeah, like Dark Sovereigns is ever REALLY coming out. > i think WotC is just giving us something to talk about while they wait for > us all to get tired of jyhad and go back to magic.....*smile*..... That's almost not funny. I just read the Duellist #7 article with all of the changes to cards and rules, then began to consider the new Vampire card backs issue again, then considered the number of Magic players I saw in the game room last night. It's almost enough to make me put a set of Jyhad cards in sleeve pages, dump the rest, and start buying 4th edition cards just so I can play with someone. Check, there was Dragon Dice, but no Jyhad in the room. Magic is most certainly the Microsoft of card games. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <45dtb6$t...@galaxy.ee.rochester.edu> eisi...@galaxy.ee.rochester.edu (Alan Eisinger) writes: > About 2 less than it has had. Fallen Empires started the general collapse of > sane continuity, and Ice Ages is busy finishing the job. I don't even want to > THINK about Homelands. I agree. I reached critical mass with IA and dumped all 3,000 cards... bought more Jyhad. :-) I saw a bumpersticker at GenCon that may be appropriate: Save gaming--kill a Magic player. Seoman seo...@spiritwalk.com http://www.atw.fullfeed.com/~seoman Sometimes you wake up, and sometimes you die. And sometimes, when you fall... y o u f l y.

On 16 Oct 1995, Neil Bernstein wrote: > Brian Wilson (bwi...@news.gate.net) wrote: > : That's almost not funny. I just read the Duellist #7 article with all of > : the changes to cards and rules, then began to consider the new Vampire > : card backs issue again, then considered the number of Magic players I saw > : in the game room last night. It's almost enough to make me put a set of > : Jyhad cards in sleeve pages, dump the rest, and start buying 4th edition > : cards just so I can play with someone. Check, there was Dragon Dice, but > : no Jyhad in the room. > > Teach people. I have taught fourteen people how to play in the last month > and a half. Guess what? I can always find a game of Jyhad on Saturday. > Of course, it usually involves lending people decks, but that's no problem > for me. > > If you care about your Jyhad, don't depend on WotC's rulebook; teach your > friends, spread the disease. > > - Neil > -- > nwbe...@unix.amherst.edu, lentus in umbra | nudus ara, sere nudus... > in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro > > Hi Neil, I agree. I have had a Thursday Jyhad game at my house for over a year now (well, it used to be Sunday) and still have no shortage of players, even though I am the only original player left. I owe my success to Ed Baine's incredibly cheap prices for bulk common cards. I occasionly order a thousand and sell them to the new players for cost (that way they don't want card limits.) Algustas ***** +1 stealth. Prince or Justicar. A vampire controlled by any Methuselah gains enough blood from the blood bank to bring it to full capacity. ***** The Fifth Tradition: Hospitality (Jyhad)

Brian Wilson (bwi...@news.gate.net) wrote: : Before I could do anything to stop it, Neil Bernstein wrote: : > Teach people. I have taught fourteen people how to play in the last month : > and a half. Guess what? I can always find a game of Jyhad on Saturday. : > Of course, it usually involves lending people decks, but that's no problem : > for me. : This is a good idea. Lord knows I have enough cards to supply 14 people : in one game myself <g>. I have a couple of teaching decks which I carry with me whenever I play Jyhad, in case I have to lend. I keep, for example, a Toreador/Brujah rush/gun/additional strike deck built up for the use of the newest newbie. It's got four basic cards: guns, Bum's Rushes, Blurs and Acrobatics. It's also got simple masters like Short Term Investment, Blood Doll, and Effective Management. That way the newbie sees a LOT of combat (and since most of the newbies I've taught are familiar with M:tG this makes more sense to them than a Malkavian deck) and learns about stealth and intercept from other players. Then they usually graduate to the Malkavian sneak/bleed deck after they've played "The Bad and the Beautiful" a few times, and by then they're usually ready to build their own decks from my cards. And <gasp> my teaching games have actually prompted a few people to go out and buy cards... [ quoted text not captured ]

bwi...@news.gate.net (Brian Wilson) wrote: >That's almost not funny. I just read the Duellist #7 article with all of >the changes to cards and rules, then began to consider the new Vampire >card backs issue again, then considered the number of Magic players I saw >in the game room last night. It's almost enough to make me put a set of >Jyhad cards in sleeve pages, dump the rest, and start buying 4th edition >cards just so I can play with someone. Check, there was Dragon Dice, but >no Jyhad in the room. I know the feeling. I play in multiple MtG right now. Several times a week, plus a tournament. I play in one Jyhad game a week. And I have yet to see people playing Jyhad at the game room. >Magic is most certainly the Microsoft of card games. Yep... and with about the same number of bugs. CT -- Charles T. Schwope | Every man is a spark in the darkness. By the aka CT | time he is noticed, he is gone forever, a sch...@infrared.csc.ti.com | retinal afterimage that fades, and is obscured c-sc...@ti.com | by newer, brighter lights.