rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Chantry-Leave Torpor at Stealth?

16 messages from 10 participants · 06 April 1995 – 12 April 1995
original thread on Google Groups

CurtAdams

oma...@convex.com (Patrick M. O'Malley) >My group has always played it as an optional effect. But I believe the >wording on the card supports a mandatory interpretation. What does >everyone else think? Mandatory. The card is phrased that way. It fits in with the extremely close nature of the Tremere clan too. Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)

Murphy Christopher J

When a torpored Tremere "leaves torpor during your Master phase", does it just happen (like a Master effect)? Or is it an actual event with some associated Stealth value (which could be blocked)? I thought it was the former for 8 months until today.

Stephen Beaulieu

In article <3m1cf5$2...@knot.queensu.ca>, 3cj...@qlink.queensu.ca (Murphy Christopher J) wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] And for 8 months you were correct. A Tremere leaves torpor during it's Meth's master phase if that Meth own the Chantry. There is no stealth, there is no chance of blocking. It is a master phase effect. A question still arises as to whether it is required. For example, blood must come off another Tremere or from the pool. If you have 3 pool left, and your only 3 tremere are in torpor, and you have the Chantry, do you _have_ to pay the 3 pool to bring your vamps out of torpor, thereby outing yourself in the Master phase, or is bringing out a vamp optional? My group has always played it as an optional effect. But I believe the wording on the card supports a mandatory interpretation. What does everyone else think? stephen

Joseph Cochran

In article <3m1cf5$2...@knot.queensu.ca>, Murphy Christopher J <3cj...@qlink.queensu.ca> wrote: >When a torpored Tremere "leaves torpor during your Master phase", does it >just happen (like a Master effect)? Or is it an actual event with some >associated Stealth value (which could be blocked)? > I thought it was the former for 8 months until today. It just happens. What made you change your mind to think that it's an action? | If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--* | PC game, call the announce line at | js...@vt.edu | ** csi...@discus.ise.vt.edu ** | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------- "Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK

Patrick M. O'Malley

In <hippo-06049...@gill.hrc.utexas.edu> hi...@mail.utexas.edu (Stephen Beaulieu) writes: >And for 8 months you were correct. A Tremere leaves torpor during it's >Meth's master phase if that Meth own the Chantry. There is no stealth, >there is no chance of blocking. It is a master phase effect. >A question still arises as to whether it is required. For example, blood >must come off another Tremere or from the pool. If you have 3 pool left, >and your only 3 tremere are in torpor, and you have the Chantry, do you >_have_ to pay the 3 pool to bring your vamps out of torpor, thereby outing >yourself in the Master phase, or is bringing out a vamp optional? >My group has always played it as an optional effect. But I believe the >wording on the card supports a mandatory interpretation. What does >everyone else think? My group considers the use of the Chantry mandatory. However, Chantry reads "A Tremere leaves torpor during your master phase ... " I interpret that to mean ONE tremere in torpor, not ALL tremeres in torpor. Besides, if 3 of your vampires are in torpor and you have only 3 blood left in your pool, you're in serious trouble anyway. Pat

Intimate apperal

On 6 Apr 1995, Murphy Christopher J wrote: > When a torpored Tremere "leaves torpor during your Master phase", does it > just happen (like a Master effect)? Or is it an actual event with some > associated Stealth value (which could be blocked)? > I thought it was the former for 8 months until today. > > My unofficial ruling would be that since it is not an action, it cannot be blocked - it just happens. This is however, UNOFFICIAL( wouldn't want to upset the elders, now would we ?) -tony, Prince of Iowa City

CurtAdams

Intimate apperal <abr...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> writes: >> When a torpored Tremere "leaves torpor during your Master phase", does it >> just happen (like a Master effect)? Or is it an actual event with some >> associated Stealth value (which could be blocked)? >> I thought it was the former for 8 months until today. > > >My unofficial ruling would be that since it is not an action, it cannot >be blocked - it just happens. This is however, UNOFFICIAL( wouldn't want >to upset the elders, now would we ?) The so-called "net elders" can't issue official rules fixes, if you're speaking of them. WotC "elders" can, but don't seem to care much what anybody says. In response to the question; you can only block actions. The Chantry rescuing a vampire is not an action, even though an action exists for similar effect. -tony, Prince of Iowa City Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)

Joseph Cochran

In article <1995Apr1...@omega.ntu.ac.sg>, Damian Chang <740926...@omega.ntu.ac.sg> wrote: >:> Mandatory. The card is phrased that way. It fits in with the extremely >:> close nature of the Tremere clan too. > >You of course realize that this means the Talbot's Chainsaw's attack is also >mandatory. How? TC is equipment, Chantry is a master card. They don't relate. [ quoted text not captured ]

L. Scott Johnson

js...@discus.ise.vt.edu (Joseph Cochran) writes: >In article <1995Apr1...@omega.ntu.ac.sg>, >Damian Chang <740926...@omega.ntu.ac.sg> wrote: >>:> Mandatory. The card is phrased that way. It fits in with the extremely >>:> close nature of the Tremere clan too. >> >>You of course realize that this means the Talbot's Chainsaw's attack is also >>mandatory. > How? TC is equipment, Chantry is a master card. They don't >relate. Because both say "Something happens" If one means that it is mandatory, so does the other. (I'm just clarifying the logic - I'm not taking any kind of position here).

Damian Chang

:In article <3m28cr$4...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, curt...@aol.com (CurtAdams) writes: :> oma...@convex.com (Patrick M. O'Malley) :> :>>My group has always played it as an optional effect. But I believe the :>>wording on the card supports a mandatory interpretation. What does :>>everyone else think? :> :> Mandatory. The card is phrased that way. It fits in with the extremely :> close nature of the Tremere clan too. :> Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com) [ quoted text not captured ]

CurtAdams

740926...@omega.ntu.ac.sg (Damian Chang) writes: >(CurtAdams) writes: (Re: is the Chantry mandatory) :> Mandatory. The card is phrased that way. It fits in with the extremely :> close nature of the Tremere clan too. :> Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com) :You of course realize that this means the Talbot's Chainsaw's attack is also :mandatory. Yes, and we play it that way. I am aware of the DTR rulings to the contrary on both cards, but that's what the card says. Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)

Joseph Cochran

In article <3mbtld$e...@redwood.cs.scarolina.edu>, L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote: >>>:> Mandatory. The card is phrased that way. It fits in with the extremely >>>:> close nature of the Tremere clan too. >>> >>>You of course realize that this means the Talbot's Chainsaw's attack is also >>>mandatory. > >> How? TC is equipment, Chantry is a master card. They don't >>relate. > >Because both say "Something happens" >If one means that it is mandatory, so does the other. But both are completely different cards, defined completely separately. You're trying to compare apples and oranges. You can't say "because they're both round they both tase good." The characteristics of a master card are completely different from those of a minion card, and comparing a superficial characteristic of the cards is like making the comparison above. Finally, for whatever value you place on these things, in the DTR for 12/22/94, question 17 was "Is using the Chantry optional?" Answer: Yes. And we've all seen Tom's ruling that equipment is optional. It happens to match that both were ruled the same way, anyway. Optional. But if they were different, I'd still stick to my guns... [ quoted text not captured ]

Thomas R Wylie

Talbot's Chainsaw implicitly says that using it to attack is mandatory. I can see the argument that Chantry also implicitly says that using it is mandatory, so I will bring it up again, but I don't expect the answer (that using it is optional) to change. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Joseph Cochran

In article <3mgcvk$a...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, Thomas R Wylie <aa...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote: > >Talbot's Chainsaw implicitly says that using it to attack is mandatory. You mean that this is an exception to the "equipment is optional" rule? Why? [ quoted text not captured ]

gomi no sensei

In article <3mgosi$1...@solaris.cc.vt.edu>, Joseph Cochran <js...@discus.ise.vt.edu> wrote: >In article <3mgcvk$a...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, >Thomas R Wylie <aa...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote: >>Talbot's Chainsaw implicitly says that using it to attack is mandatory. > You mean that this is an exception to the "equipment is optional" >rule? Why? i might be going out on a limb here, but i'm guessing it might have something to do with it saying so on the card. heckler golden rule, and all that -- "A global village is NOT supposed to be an anarchic tyranny of the discourteous!" pers...@athena.mit.edu, vox clamans

L. Scott Johnson

In article <3mgosi$1...@solaris.cc.vt.edu>, Joseph Cochran <js...@discus.ise.vt.edu> wrote: >In article <3mgcvk$a...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, >Thomas R Wylie <aa...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote: >> >>Talbot's Chainsaw implicitly says that using it to attack is mandatory. > > You mean that this is an exception to the "equipment is optional" >rule? Why? He meant "explicitly" - Not that that improves his argument for equipment.