Card Text:
Mortal with 1 life, 1 strength, 0 bleed.
Arms dealer may take a +1 stealth action to allow you to search your library
for a weapon and move it to your hand. Discard to your hand size and shuffle
your library afterward.
When the Arms Dealer uses is capacity, is the player forced to reveal the
weapon he retrieves to all players ?
Or can he hide the weapon he retrieves, thus playing the Arms Dealer's
capacity in a trustful manner ?
How can the other players be sure that the card retrieved *is* a weapon ?
Miller Delmardigan
Sabbat Priscus
[ quoted text not captured ]
Whenever we play that you look for something, then you must reveal to
all
players, to ensure that it is correct, unless specified.
One exception to this is moving blood to a younger uncontrolled vampire,
but you could always call a judge to ensure this is OK.
--
Andy "Slytherin" Brown
VEKN Setite Ruler of Cambridge
SET awakens, watch out all non-believers
> Whenever we play that you look for something, then you must reveal to
> all
> players, to ensure that it is correct, unless specified.
>
> One exception to this is moving blood to a younger uncontrolled vampire,
> but you could always call a judge to ensure this is OK.
I thought this was not always the case at all. Honesty is meant to be the
rule in Jyhad - and if a judge catches you cheating then you pay the price
for your crimes.
And if you ever catch someone doing that (by entering combat with a Malk
Madness Network before they've had a chance to change their hand in the
discard phase, then playing an Aura Reading to look at their hand) then you
should kick their ass to the curb and not let them sit at your table again.
Thalles
Miller Delmardigan wrote:
>
> Card Text:
>
> Mortal with 1 life, 1 strength, 0 bleed.
>
> Arms dealer may take a +1 stealth action to allow you to search your library
> for a weapon and move it to your hand. Discard to your hand size and shuffle
> your library afterward.
>
> When the Arms Dealer uses is capacity, is the player forced to reveal the
> weapon he retrieves to all players ?
No.
> Or can he hide the weapon he retrieves, thus playing the Arms Dealer's
> capacity in a trustful manner ?
This.
> How can the other players be sure that the card retrieved *is* a weapon ?
Call the judge over to verify.
If you don't have a judge, then you must be playing a friendly game,
so play nice. :-)
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
[ quoted text not captured ]
I assume this is the same for anything along these lines then. I.E. The
Summoning, where the only person you would have to prove a card type to
would be the judge.
I was basing my previous answer on how we play the game in Cambridge.
My guys will have a field day with this answer.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Andy Brown wrote:
> LSJ wrote:
> > Miller Delmardigan wrote:
> > > When the Arms Dealer uses is capacity, is the player forced to reveal the
> > > weapon he retrieves to all players ?> > > How can the other players be sure that the card retrieved *is* a weapon ?
> >
> > Call the judge over to verify.
> >
> > If you don't have a judge, then you must be playing a friendly game,
> > so play nice. :-)
> >> I was basing my previous answer on how we play the game in Cambridge.
> My guys will have a field day with this answer.
How so "a field day"? I could only see this being "a field day" sort of
answer to people who cheat.
Do "your guys" use Eco Terrorists to put counters on a Gangrel antitribu?
Do "your guys" use Govern the Unaligned to move counters to an older
uncontrolled vampire?
Do "your guys" also have to count the cards in each other's crypts to make
sure that someone's not playing with 11 cards?
Do "your guys" intentionally redraw cards that are not replaced until later
and then say "oops" and "return" a different card from their hand to the
library to gain an advantage?
[ quoted text not captured ]
LSJ wrote:
>
> Andy Brown wrote:
> > LSJ wrote:
> > > Miller Delmardigan wrote:
> > > > When the Arms Dealer uses is capacity, is the player forced to reveal the
> > > > weapon he retrieves to all players ?
> > > > How can the other players be sure that the card retrieved *is* a weapon ?
> > >
> > > Call the judge over to verify.
> > >
> > > If you don't have a judge, then you must be playing a friendly game,
> > > so play nice. :-)
> > >
> > I was basing my previous answer on how we play the game in Cambridge.
> > My guys will have a field day with this answer.
>
> How so "a field day"? I could only see this being "a field day" sort of
> answer to people who cheat.
>
> Do "your guys" use Eco Terrorists to put counters on a Gangrel antitribu?
>
> Do "your guys" use Govern the Unaligned to move counters to an older
> uncontrolled vampire?
>
> Do "your guys" also have to count the cards in each other's crypts to make
> sure that someone's not playing with 11 cards?
>
> Do "your guys" intentionally redraw cards that are not replaced until later
> and then say "oops" and "return" a different card from their hand to the
> library to gain an advantage?
>
Actually meant that they would as they wouldn't need to reveal the card
they get (thus giving opponents some advantage). I always said they had
to, so most likely they will have a field day kicking my butt next time
we play with all the weapons they wouldn't previously put in their hands
with my knowledge.
But of course, could be construed the other way. I'll have to hope that
no-one is unscra... unscrupolo... a cheating bastard in my playroup.
Sometimes I really wonder why I opted to be Prince of the City. I'm
shit, and I don't appear to know all the many rules, although most
of them. Oh yeah, I remember, no-one else wanted to do it. I sometimes
wonder how close the cross-over really is between the RPG, VTES and
real life!
[ quoted text not captured ]
Andy Brown wrote:
> LSJ wrote:> > Andy Brown wrote:
> > > I was basing my previous answer on how we play the game in Cambridge.
> > > My guys will have a field day with this answer.
> >
> > How so "a field day"? I could only see this being "a field day" sort of
> > answer to people who cheat.> Actually meant that they would as they wouldn't need to reveal the card> they get (thus giving opponents some advantage). I always said they had
> to, so most likely they will have a field day kicking my butt next time
> we play with all the weapons they wouldn't previously put in their hands
> with my knowledge.
>
> But of course, could be construed the other way. I'll have to hope that
> no-one is unscra... unscrupolo... a cheating bastard in my playroup.
Ah. Good to hear (not that your butt's in danger, just that your guys
aren't the cheatin' kind).
[ quoted text not captured ]
LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3DAC1CE5...@white-wolf.com>...
> Ah. Good to hear (not that your butt's in danger, just that your guys
> aren't the cheatin' kind).
I know as the game designer you wouldn't like hearing something like
this, but... its not cheating if you don't get caught...
not that I've ever cheated... intentionally.
~SV
Andy Brown wrote:
>
> LSJ wrote:
> >
> > Miller Delmardigan wrote:
> > >
> > > Card Text:
...
> > > Arms dealer may take a +1 stealth action to allow you to search your library
> > > for a weapon and move it to your hand. Discard to your hand size and shuffle
> > > your library afterward.
> > >
> > > When the Arms Dealer uses is capacity, is the player forced to reveal the
> > > weapon he retrieves to all players ?
> >
> > No.
...
> > > How can the other players be sure that the card retrieved *is* a weapon ?
> >
> > Call the judge over to verify.
> >
> > If you don't have a judge, then you must be playing a friendly game,
> > so play nice. :-)
>> I assume this is the same for anything along these lines then.
If no card text to the contrary, true. General rule: do not assume rules or
procedures that are not printed in the rules or on a card. Since there's neither
a rule nor card text to state that the weapon fetched must be displayed for the
other players, then don't assume it.
> I.E. The Summoning, where the only person you would have to prove a card type to
> would be the judge.
Card text quote from The Summoning (inferior presence text):
"Search your library for an ally or retainer. Show it to all players and put it in
your hand..."
(Using the superior version obviates this need to resolve this issue anyway.)
It's uncertain whether "proving" the card's type was ever the reason for this rule.
If it were, one would expect that the text of Arms Dealer would have been updated
to bring it into line with some of the other cards that have functions of this type,
like The Summoning. Assuming no dishonesty issues, the one *concrete* effect of
the extra text in cards like The Summoning is that your opponents are allowed to
see exactly what card you've brought into your hand. That point seems more likely
to explain the difference between the two cards.
Fred