rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Damage Prevention...

15 messages from 8 participants · 19 January 2000 – 24 January 2000
original thread on Google Groups

Chris Shorb & Tammy Martin

Ivan Lerth wrote: > > Hello, > > I've some doubts about damage prevention... > > 1. Can multiple copies of the same damage prevention card be used in > the same strike resolution phase? (i.e. 2 Skin of Rock at superior to > prevent 4 damage) > Yes. Any combat card can be played multiple times in a round, unless card text says otherwise; and of course you only have one strike a round, and can only have one source of additional strikes in a round. So you could play 5 skin of rocks in a round, or 3 traps in a round. But you could only play one undead strength, or if you played your one acrobatics, then 2 undead strength. However, LSJ will have to weigh in to tell us ifyou can play 5 Skin of Rock at superior to prevent 10 damage if you only have 4 damage to prevent... The errata on Skin of Steel says that you can only play it if you have damage to prevent - perhaps that helps inform us on whether more SoR can be played than there is damage to prevent. > 2. When is Skin of Steel at superior used when there are additional > strikes?, does it have to be used during the first strike resolution or > can it be played after the last strike? Damage from each strike is resolved before you move onto additional strikes in a round. So if you wanted to prevent the damage from the first strike, you would have to play Skin of Steel in that first damage resolution phase. But if you did not want to prevent the damage (and I can think of a few reasons for that...), but then wanted to prevent later damage, then you would play skin of steel. Note card text of V:TES Skin of Steel: Card Title: Skin of Steel Blood/Pool: 1 blood Clan/Discip.: Fortitude Card Type: Combat Card Text: Prevent all damage from a strike. (S) As above, and prevent all damage from opponent's strikes for the remainder of this round. Artist: Douglas Shuler Rarity: Common It specifically says for the remainder of this round. But as always, we depend on the official word of LSJ. Chris > > Thanks for answering, > > -- > (Fantasy Library) http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/1341/amazon > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. -- NEW e-mail address: shr...@alumni.williams.edu Chris Shorb, Monger of stuff Tammy Martin, Queen of the Eastern Marches, and damn good mom Alexander Shorb, little guy who could Shameless plug: <http://www.graphicnovels.com/>

Ivan Lerth

Hello, I've some doubts about damage prevention... 1. Can multiple copies of the same damage prevention card be used in the same strike resolution phase? (i.e. 2 Skin of Rock at superior to prevent 4 damage) 2. When is Skin of Steel at superior used when there are additional strikes?, does it have to be used during the first strike resolution or can it be played after the last strike? Thanks for answering, [ quoted text not captured ]

Maverick

Hello Chris, I think that only one card of one type can be played at round. example. If a vampire do a skin of rock, this tpy of skin prevent 2 damage , no more, is nonsense that a vampire make on self 2 or more skin of rock... how many skin has him? In every case each card of same type can be played once a round, the next round, it can be replayed, but not the same! Chris Shorb & Tammy Martin ha scritto nel messaggio <38867A74...@alumni.williams.edu>... > > >Ivan Lerth wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> I've some doubts about damage prevention... >> >> 1. Can multiple copies of the same damage prevention card be used in >> the same strike resolution phase? (i.e. 2 Skin of Rock at superior to >> prevent 4 damage) >> > >Yes. Any combat card can be played multiple times in a round, unless >card text says otherwise; and of course you only have one strike a >round, and can only have one source of additional strikes in a round. >So you could play 5 skin of rocks in a round, or 3 traps in a round. >But you could only play one undead strength, or if you played your one >acrobatics, then 2 undead strength. However, LSJ will have to weigh >in to tell us ifyou can play 5 Skin of Rock at superior to prevent 10 >damage if you only have 4 damage to prevent... The errata on Skin of >Steel says that you can only play it if you have damage to prevent - >perhaps that helps inform us on whether more SoR can be played than >there is damage to prevent. > > >> 2. When is Skin of Steel at superior used when there are additional >> strikes?, does it have to be used during the first strike resolution or >> can it be played after the last strike? > >Damage from each strike is resolved before you move onto additional >strikes in a round. So if you wanted to prevent the damage from the >first strike, you would have to play Skin of Steel in that first >damage resolution phase. But if you did not want to prevent the >damage (and I can think of a few reasons for that...), but then wanted >to prevent later damage, then you would play skin of steel. Note card >text of V:TES Skin of Steel: > >Card Title: Skin of Steel >Blood/Pool: 1 blood >Clan/Discip.: Fortitude >Card Type: Combat >Card Text: Prevent all damage from a strike. > (S) As above, and prevent all damage from > opponent's strikes for the remainder of this round. >Artist: Douglas Shuler >Rarity: Common > >It specifically says for the remainder of this round. But as always, >we depend on the official word of LSJ. > >Chris > >> >> Thanks for answering, >> >> -- >> (Fantasy Library) http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/1341/amazon >> >> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >> Before you buy. > [ quoted text not captured ]

carlos_...@my-deja.com

In article <866gho$8fd$1...@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>, "Maverick" <ma...@cerinf.it> wrote: > Hello Chris, > I think that only one card of one type can be played at round. > example. If a vampire do a skin of rock, this tpy of skin prevent 2 > damage , no more, is nonsense that a vampire make on self 2 or more skin of > rock... how many skin has him? > > In every case each card of same type can be played once a round, the next > round, it can be replayed, but not the same! Well, you are wrong here. You can play as many combat cards of the same type as you like, as long as you are allowed to do so. This means you can play 10 Traps at the start of the combat, 10 Carrion Crows, 10 Drawing out the Beast, or 10 Immortal Grapple before strikes are chosen. You cannot play 2 or more Flash in a row, only if the opponent plays a maneuver, too. Same goes for Presses. You can only ever play 1 strike card for your strike, only 1 card that gives you additional strikes. And you can play as many copies of, say, Unflinching persistence, provided, you *have damage to prevent*. You can play 2 Skin of Rock at inferior to prevent 2 damage, instead of using it at superior. But you can only play a damage-prevention card when you have some unprevented damage left. Obviously, you can play only one "prevent all damage this round" type card, as all damage is already prevented. You could however play e.g. 2 Skin of Rock to prevent 4 of your, say, 5 damage you recieve, and then play a skin of steel to prevent the rest, but not the other way round. Hope that all is correct what I said (LSJ?) and it has been of some help. Carl [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ

Chris Shorb & Tammy Martin wrote: > Ivan Lerth wrote: > > 1. Can multiple copies of the same damage prevention card be used in > > the same strike resolution phase? (i.e. 2 Skin of Rock at superior to > > prevent 4 damage) > > Yes. Any combat card can be played multiple times in a round, unless > card text says otherwise; and of course you only have one strike a > round, and can only have one source of additional strikes in a round. > So you could play 5 skin of rocks in a round, or 3 traps in a round. > But you could only play one undead strength, or if you played your one > acrobatics, then 2 undead strength. However, LSJ will have to weigh > in to tell us ifyou can play 5 Skin of Rock at superior to prevent 10 > damage if you only have 4 damage to prevent... The errata on Skin of No: "damage prevention cards are played one at a time until all the damage is prevented" [6.4.6] > Steel says that you can only play it if you have damage to prevent - Skin of Steel has no errata. It has a clarification on what "prevent all damage from a strike" means when coupled with the existsing concept that you cannot prevent damage if you have no damage to prevent: Skin of Steel - Combat (for) (1) * Cannot be played except when damaged by a strike. [TOM 19960109] http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=134721061 > > 2. When is Skin of Steel at superior used when there are additional > > strikes?, does it have to be used during the first strike resolution or > > can it be played after the last strike? > > Damage from each strike is resolved before you move onto additional > strikes in a round. So if you wanted to prevent the damage from the > first strike, you would have to play Skin of Steel in that first > damage resolution phase. But if you did not want to prevent the > damage (and I can think of a few reasons for that...), but then wanted > to prevent later damage, then you would play skin of steel. Note card Correct. > text of V:TES Skin of Steel: > > Card Title: Skin of Steel > Blood/Pool: 1 blood > Clan/Discip.: Fortitude > Card Type: Combat > Card Text: Prevent all damage from a strike. > (S) As above, and prevent all damage from > opponent's strikes for the remainder of this round. > Artist: Douglas Shuler > Rarity: Common > > It specifically says for the remainder of this round. But as always, > we depend on the official word of LSJ. Correct. It prevents all damage from the current strike ("as above") and for future strikes this round, but does not retroactively prevent damage from previous strikes this round. -- LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) V:TES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/rules.asp

LSJ

Maverick wrote: > > Hello Chris, > I think that only one card of one type can be played at round. No, there is no by-name limit on combat cards in general - only on additional-strike-gaining (and the inherent limit on striking). See Carrion Crows, Song of Serenity, or superior Sideslip for an indication that this is true. > example. If a vampire do a skin of rock, this tpy of skin prevent 2 > damage , no more, is nonsense that a vampire make on self 2 or more skin of > rock... how many skin has him? One skin. Its just doubly rocky. :-) But really, its a card game - it isn't always able to yield to common sense or "real world" arguments. For instance, a minion with two IR Goggles gets two optional maneuvers per combat, even though the idea of wearing IR goggles over IR goggles is pretty clearly not useful. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ

carlos_...@my-deja.com wrote: > You can play as many combat cards of the same > type as you like, as long as you are allowed to do so. This means you > can play 10 Traps at the start of the combat, 10 Carrion Crows, 10 > Drawing out the Beast, or 10 Immortal Grapple before strikes are > chosen. Carrion Crows should not be on the list: "A vampire can only play one Carrion Crows each combat." > You cannot play 2 or more Flash in a row, only if the opponent plays a > maneuver, too. Same goes for Presses. You can only ever play 1 strike > card for your strike, only 1 card that gives you additional strikes. > And you can play as many copies of, say, Unflinching persistence, > provided, you *have damage to prevent*. You can play 2 Skin of Rock at > inferior to prevent 2 damage, instead of using it at superior. But you > can only play a damage-prevention card when you have some unprevented > damage left. > Obviously, you can play only one "prevent all damage this round" type > card, as all damage is already prevented. You could however play e.g. 2 > Skin of Rock to prevent 4 of your, say, 5 damage you recieve, and then > play a skin of steel to prevent the rest, but not the other way round. > > Hope that all is correct what I said (LSJ?) and it has been of some > help. Except for the Carrion Crows, it looks good. [ quoted text not captured ]

Jeffrey Moore

Skin of Steel question here. This always bugged me. Say your superior fortitude vampire with 1 blood on him takes 2 points of damage. Can you still play skin of steel even though it costs 1 blood , not go to torpor and be at 0 blood? Answers welcome.

Derek S. Ray

[ quoted text not captured ] of course. zero blood vampires don't have to go to torpor - they just have to hunt. And since he spent his 1 blood to prevent all the damage, he takes zero damage and therefore has to burn no blood to heal his wounds. it'll suck if his opponent presses to a second round though. -- Derek Deafness never kept composers from hearing the music. It only stopped them hearing the distractions.

James Coupe

On Sat, 22 Jan 2000, Derek S. Ray wrote: > it'll suck if his opponent presses to a second round though. Maybe. maybe. But I've made him 'waste' a press (though he could be getting the advantage of card cycling), in order to torporise me. Swings and roundabouts, and all that sort of thing. -- James Coupe

Jeffrey Moore

Im not sure you got my angle, Derek. I'm saying that you take damage BEFORE you get to use skin of steel, right? So if you don't have any blood, how can you pay for it? After studying the rules again, it doesn't say which happens first in the "check damage" phase, so I assume it is fine to use skin of steel before the damage is dealt. Coolness, Back to the game. Jeff Prince of Cleveland

James Coupe

On Sun, 23 Jan 2000, Jeffrey Moore wrote: > Im not sure you got my angle, Derek. I'm saying that you take damage > BEFORE you get to use skin of steel, right? So if you don't have any > blood, how can you pay for it? After studying the rules again, it > doesn't say which happens first in the "check damage" phase, so I assume > it is fine to use skin of steel before the damage is dealt. You use it *after* the damage is dealt, but before you have to burn blood for the damage. Combat (damage resolution) goes, roughly: 1) Work out the results of strikes - how much damage etc. 2) Do things which *aren't* based around damage - e.g. steal blood, destroy equipment 3) at this point, play damage prevention cards 4) then burn enough blood etc. for any unprevented damage -- James Coupe

Derek S. Ray

On Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:38:01 -0500 (EST), Trut...@webtv.net (Jeffrey Moore) wrote: >Im not sure you got my angle, Derek. I'm saying that you take damage >BEFORE you get to use skin of steel, right? So if you don't have any >blood, how can you pay for it? After studying the rules again, it >doesn't say which happens first in the "check damage" phase, so I assume >it is fine to use skin of steel before the damage is dealt. Coolness, >Back to the game. brief combat overview: - beginning of round and other early stuff happens. - strikes are chosen. - strikes resolve, and damage is applied appropriately. - damage may now be prevented. - for any unprevented normal damage, a vampire must burn a blood to heal each point of normal damage. if a vampire runs out of blood and still has normal damage to heal, he is wounded and will go to torpor later. - for any unprevented aggravated damage, which may not be healed: - if a vampire is unwounded, one point of the damage wounds him. - if a vampire is wounded, he must burn one blood for every point of damage in order to prevent destruction. if he runs out of blood and still has aggravated damage left, he burns. poof! - any wounded vampires are sent to torpor. - additional strikes may be generated for this round if both combatants are still standing. so, you prevent the damage before you have to heal the damage. note that you could also choose to use inferior skin of steel to selectively prevent aggravated damage, as if a vampire punched with hands for one, while his Ghoul Retainer used a Flamethrower for 2 agg. other interpretations would render Fortitude largely useless, yes? since if you take damage before you can prevent...? [ quoted text not captured ]

carlos_...@my-deja.com

> > so, you prevent the damage before you have to heal the damage. note > that you could also choose to use inferior skin of steel to > selectively prevent aggravated damage, as if a vampire punched with > hands for one, while his Ghoul Retainer used a Flamethrower for 2 agg. You cannot use Skin of Steel in this case, cause the Ghoul Retainer just inflicts damage, but doesn't do so as a strike. However, you could use Skin of Rock or similar cards which just say "prevent x damage". [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ

carlos_...@my-deja.com wrote: > > > > > so, you prevent the damage before you have to heal the damage. note > > that you could also choose to use inferior skin of steel to > > selectively prevent aggravated damage, as if a vampire punched with > > hands for one, while his Ghoul Retainer used a Flamethrower for 2 agg. > > You cannot use Skin of Steel in this case, cause the Ghoul Retainer just > inflicts damage, but doesn't do so as a strike. However, you could use > Skin of Rock or similar cards which just say "prevent x damage". Correct. [ quoted text not captured ]