rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Allies gaining life

14 messages from 7 participants · 20 June 1997 – 30 September 1997
original thread on Google Groups

James B. Floate

Hullo all. LSJ; Since Ancients Hearts release my group has been trying to figure out how to generate life for Ahkenaten and Kherebutu via their card text of 'If a card would give him blood, give him life.' Its simple with Talaq, you just have him theft of vitae, but there doesnt seem to be any way for the mummies to gain life. Soul stealing can only be used in combat at super, so these two cant use it, and they cant diablerise for it. We were wondering if they can play taste of vitae? It seems unlikely, a mummy lapping up vampire blood, but we thought we'd ask. If anyone has a way of gaining them life we would like to hear it. James B.

LSJ (VtES Rep)

[ quoted text not captured ] This is just a case of foresight on the part of the card designers. Any time you allow an ally to play cards that require disciplines (which normally assume that they will be played by vampires), you have to have that text explicitly stating the association of blood to life. That no cards currently exist to fulfill part of that relationship doesn't make the relationship any less valid. -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@regency.wizards.com) Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. (*) - Subject to review by Rules Team

JlB1925

>LSJ; Since Ancients Hearts release my group has been trying to figure >out how to generate life for Ahkenaten and Kherebutu via their card text >of 'If a card would give him blood, give him life.' The situation is probably similar to the situation of that guy that the Pander can get that can use Potence. It says that he can gain life in case they ever make a card in that discipline that would give life. It doesn't necessarily mean there is already a card that will give blood. Planning ahead. --- Liam Burke "The Democrats can't pull it together if we rip them apart." -overheard

James B. Floate

LSJ (VtES Rep) wrote: > That no cards currently exist to fulfill part of that relationship > doesn't make the relationship any less valid. Hit me with your null-set baby. WotC have a good spin doctor LSJ. :) James B.

James Coupe

In article <33AABB...@tpgi.com.au>, "James B. Floate" <jfl...@tpgi.com.au> writes >Hullo all. >LSJ; Since Ancients Hearts release my group has been trying to figure >out how to generate life for Ahkenaten and Kherebutu via their card text >of 'If a card would give him blood, give him life.' Its simple with >Talaq, you just have him theft of vitae, but there doesnt seem to be any >way for the mummies to gain life. Soul stealing can only be used in >combat at super, so these two cant use it, and they cant diablerise for >it. We were wondering if they can play taste of vitae? It seems >unlikely, a mummy lapping up vampire blood, but we thought we'd ask. If >anyone has a way of gaining them life we would like to hear it. > > James B. Just wondering, what about Talaq - he says that he plays those cards as a vampire with a capacity of three - if a vampire with a capacity of three played theft of vitae he would only get a maximum of three blood on him (depending on level and blood before using it). So would Talaq? It seems a little odd. Also, I think that the things with the mummies are just there in case they ever do add the cards that let them - they must have learned from things like threats, bonding and so forth that prohibiting stuff is awkward for later so better to state it now in case they do add stuff. -- James Coupe ***REMOVE the DOTs from my Email address when replying*** "It's not easy having a good time - even smilimg makes my face ache"

LSJ (VtES Rep)

James Coupe wrote: > > In article <33AABB...@tpgi.com.au>, "James B. Floate" > <jfl...@tpgi.com.au> writes > >Hullo all. > >LSJ; Since Ancients Hearts release my group has been trying to figure > >out how to generate life for Ahkenaten and Kherebutu via their card text > >of 'If a card would give him blood, give him life.' Its simple with > >Talaq, you just have him theft of vitae, but there doesnt seem to be any > >way for the mummies to gain life. Soul stealing can only be used in > >combat at super, so these two cant use it, and they cant diablerise for > >it. We were wondering if they can play taste of vitae? It seems > >unlikely, a mummy lapping up vampire blood, but we thought we'd ask. If > >anyone has a way of gaining them life we would like to hear it. > > > > James B. > > Just wondering, what about Talaq - he says that he plays those cards as > a vampire with a capacity of three - if a vampire with a capacity of > three played theft of vitae he would only get a maximum of three blood > on him (depending on level and blood before using it). So would Talaq? It seems as if the answer should be "no", but I can't figure a way to make that work. So "Yes" Talaq ignores blood stolen in excess of his "as if" capacity of three. (*) [ quoted text not captured ]

James B. Floate

LSJ (VtES Rep) wrote: > > James Coupe wrote: > > Just wondering, what about Talaq - he says that he plays those cards as > > a vampire with a capacity of three - if a vampire with a capacity of > > three played theft of vitae he would only get a maximum of three blood > > on him (depending on level and blood before using it). So would Talaq? > > It seems as if the answer should be "no", but I can't figure a way to > make that work. > > So "Yes" Talaq ignores blood stolen in excess of his "as if" capacity > of three. (*) Hmmn, LSJ, seems like you're 'rounding down' not in the players favour there. We play Talaq so that he gains the blood, esp in light of the Sabbat allies which have very definite blood gain capabilities. And despite your post I am going to keep playing him that way (surprised myself there). I looked for a while at Talaq, I looked at the other allies, and then at various thaumaturgy cards and wondered if he was unbalanced by gaining life above three. I still am unsure, but am willing to keep playing him that way until someone in my group decides to push the issue, which I think unlikely, in fact, I might build a deck to try and exploit him myself and see what happens. Still listening, James B.

LSJ (VtES Rep)

James B. Floate wrote: > LSJ (VtES Rep) wrote: > > James Coupe wrote: > > > > Just wondering, what about Talaq - he says that he plays those cards as > > > a vampire with a capacity of three - if a vampire with a capacity of > > > three played theft of vitae he would only get a maximum of three blood > > > on him (depending on level and blood before using it). So would Talaq? > > > > It seems as if the answer should be "no", but I can't figure a way to > > make that work. > > > > So "Yes" Talaq ignores blood stolen in excess of his "as if" capacity > > of three. (*) > > Hmmn, LSJ, seems like you're 'rounding down' not in the players favour > there. Just interpretting the rules. A "no" answer (which seems to be the way the card was intended to work) would require errata. And I'm not empowered to make errata - only to interpret the rules. And errata is no longer being issued based soley on a card's intentions (cf. Code of Milan Suspended). If you can offer an explanation of why Talaq would be allowed to ignore the rule on stealing blood in excess of capacity without introducing errata, I'd love to hear it. I'd prefer to make the "no" ruling, but am bound by my Job Description to offer just the facts, not to change the facts. [ quoted text not captured ]

L. Scott Johnson

LSJ (VtES Rep) wrote: > James B. Floate wrote: > > LSJ (VtES Rep) wrote: > > > James Coupe wrote: > > > > Just wondering, what about Talaq - he says that he plays those cards as > > > > a vampire with a capacity of three - if a vampire with a capacity of > > > > three played theft of vitae he would only get a maximum of three blood > > > > on him (depending on level and blood before using it). So would Talaq? > > > > > > So "Yes" Talaq ignores blood stolen in excess of his "as if" capacity > > > of three. (*) > > > > Hmmn, LSJ, seems like you're 'rounding down' not in the players favour > > there. > > If you can offer an explanation of why Talaq would be allowed to > ignore the rule on stealing blood in excess of capacity without > introducing errata, I'd love to hear it. I'd prefer to make the "no" > ruling, but am bound by my Job Description to offer just the facts, > not to change the facts. The rules team has offered such an explanation: The bit about stolen blood in excess of capacity being moved to the blood bank is: 1. reminder text of the normal fate of blood in excess of capacity 2. subsequent to the actual gaining of blood (i.e., the blood is gained, then excess is moved from the thief to the blood bank - not simply moved directly to the blood bank from the victim). The result: Talaq gains life (since he converts the blood gain to life gain). Then, when the blood in excess of capacity would drain off, he keeps his life since (1) it's life, not blood and (2) he doesn't have a capacity of three anymore. [ quoted text not captured ]

Justin Fang

In article <5prflq$3...@news.wizards.com>, L. Scott Johnson <vte...@wizards.com> wrote: [Talaq stealing blood] >The result: Talaq gains life (since he converts the blood gain to >life gain). Then, when the blood in excess of capacity would drain >off, he keeps his life since (1) it's life, not blood and (2) he >doesn't have a capacity of three anymore. I assume this also applies if one of the mummies uses Soul Stealing? Does this apply to all allies? That is, if an ally has some method of gaining life (ie Succubus) without an explicit maximum then it can exceed its original life? Also, what happens if Talaq uses Infernal Retainer? -- Justin Fang (jus...@ugcs.caltech.edu) This space intentionally left blank.

Justin Fang

In article <5prflq$3...@news.wizards.com>, L. Scott Johnson <vte...@wizards.com> wrote: [Talaq stealing blood] >The result: Talaq gains life (since he converts the blood gain to >life gain). Then, when the blood in excess of capacity would drain >off, he keeps his life since (1) it's life, not blood and (2) he >doesn't have a capacity of three anymore. I assume this also applies if one of the mummies uses Soul Stealing? Does this apply to all allies? That is, if an ally has some method of gaining life (ie Succubus) without an explicit maximum then it can exceed its original life? Also, what happens if Talaq uses Infernal Familiar? [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ (VtES Rep)

Justin Fang wrote: > > In article <5prflq$3...@news.wizards.com>, > L. Scott Johnson <vte...@wizards.com> wrote: > > [Talaq stealing blood] > > >The result: Talaq gains life (since he converts the blood gain to > >life gain). Then, when the blood in excess of capacity would drain > >off, he keeps his life since (1) it's life, not blood and (2) he > >doesn't have a capacity of three anymore. > > I assume this also applies if one of the mummies uses Soul Stealing? This doesn't apply, since it is addressing the "Steal Blood" issue of exactly when stolen blood in excess of capacity is diverted to the blood bank. But, yes, a Mummy gaining blood (hence, Life) from Soul Stealing would not be subject to any of the acquired Life draining off. > Does > this apply to all allies? That is, if an ally has some method of gaining > life (ie Succubus) without an explicit maximum then it can exceed its > original life? Yes. Allies have no maximum life limitations. > Also, what happens if Talaq uses Infernal Retainer? Nothing, except that Talaq is less lonely. He employs the Retainer just fine (as a vampire of capacity 3). Once employed, however, the retainer allows its *vampire* employer to use cards that blah blah blah. (Card text) Since Talaq is not a vampire, he doesn't benefit. [ quoted text not captured ]

James B. Floate

LSJ (VtES Rep) wrote: > > Justin Fang wrote: > > I assume this also applies if one of the mummies uses Soul Stealing? > > This doesn't apply, since it is addressing the "Steal Blood" issue > of exactly when stolen blood in excess of capacity is diverted to > the blood bank. > > But, yes, a Mummy gaining blood (hence, Life) from Soul Stealing > would not be subject to any of the acquired Life draining off. A big thumbs up for Talaq and the rules team. I just thought I would remind Justin that the mummies cant play soul stealing unfortunately. It has been errated to make it playable in combat for super necro, and the mummies cant take diablerise actions- so they cant play it. James B.

Justin Grace

In article <5q2tfk$s...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, Justin Fang <jus...@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes >Also, what happens if Talaq uses Infernal Familiar? I think the appropriate phrase would be: ohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshit That is just WAY too frightening. I shall have to try it :-) -- Justin Grace (Note Spam-proof Email address) *---------------------------------------------------------* | "Slowly, gently, night unfurls its splendour... | | Grasp it, sense it - tremulous and tender... | | Turn your face away from the garish light of day... | | Turn your thoughts away from cold, unfeeling light..." | *---------------------------------------------------------*