rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Hmmmm...

8 messages from 6 participants · 21 November 1995 – 04 December 1995
original thread on Google Groups

Andrea Williams

Anyone else think it's funny (not ha-ha funny, but that weird kind of funny like deja vu) that WoTC changes the name of Jyhad to "not offend the Middle East" among other reasons, and then comes up with two new clans playing off stereotypes of Egyptians and Arabs (the Followers of Set and the Assamite). I don't mean to sound offended, but how is portraying Middle Eastern vamps as the terrorists and asassins of the gothic world going to help anything? Why, that would be like portraying Italian vampires as mobsters (the Giovanni and their "corporate interests"...I'm sure they're all legitimae businessmen)... Andrea, Vecchia del Giovanni Welcome to the New World Order...please check your mind at the door

Biomech8

In article <48tdvf$8...@sun.lclark.edu>, a...@sun.lclark.edu (Andrea Williams) writes: >Anyone else think it's funny (not ha-ha funny, but that weird kind of >funny like deja vu) that WoTC changes the name of Jyhad to "not offend >the Middle East" among other reasons, and then comes up with two new >clans playing off stereotypes of Egyptians and Arabs I think they changed the name because "Jyhad" didn't sound like a game about vampires and they wanted to up the sales of their product. It sure is working well (sarcasm). Stereo types exist, and making politically correct clans doesn't seem all that important if they are not offensive. ~Biomechanoid of Clan Gangrel (militant tree huggers)

Thomas R Wylie

Andrea Williams <a...@sun.lclark.edu> wrote: >Anyone else think it's funny (not ha-ha funny, but that weird kind of >funny like deja vu) that WoTC changes the name of Jyhad to "not offend >the Middle East" among other reasons, and then comes up with two new >clans playing off stereotypes of Egyptians and Arabs (the Followers of >Set and the Assamite). I don't mean to sound offended, but how is >portraying Middle Eastern vamps as the terrorists and asassins of the >gothic world going to help anything? Why, that would be like portraying >Italian vampires as mobsters (the Giovanni and their "corporate >interests"...I'm sure they're all legitimae businessmen)... We did not come up with Assamites or Followers of Set; those are clans created by White Wolf for the Masquerade, the game VTES is based off of. The existence of Assamites is not really "portraying Middle Eastern vamps as the terrorists and assassins of the Gothic world", as there are many Middle Eastern vamps in other clans, and there are non-Middle Eastern vamps in the Assamites. The Assamites are largely Middle Eastern for historical reasons. Also, I don't see Followers of Set as playing on any stereotype of Egyptians; White Wolf simply picked an Egyptian god to base the clan on. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

L. Scott Johnson

aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes: >Andrea Williams <a...@sun.lclark.edu> wrote: >>Anyone else think it's funny (not ha-ha funny, but that weird kind of >>funny like deja vu) that WoTC changes the name of Jyhad to "not offend >>the Middle East" among other reasons, and then comes up with two new >>clans playing off stereotypes of Egyptians and Arabs (the Followers of >>Set and the Assamite). >We did not come up with Assamites or Followers of Set; those are clans >created by White Wolf for the Masquerade, the game VTES is based off of. I believe the term 'Jyhad' was also created (coined) by WW for V:tM. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | These opinions are mine and http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | are subject to card text. Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |

CurtAdams

In article <48tdvf$8...@sun.lclark.edu>, a...@sun.lclark.edu (Andrea Williams) writes: >Anyone else think it's funny (not ha-ha funny, but that weird kind of >funny like deja vu) that WoTC changes the name of Jyhad to "not offend >the Middle East" among other reasons, and then comes up with two new >clans playing off stereotypes of Egyptians and Arabs (the Followers of >Set and the Assamite). There have been numerous prior indications that "Jyhad" being offensive had little or nothing to do with the name change. Some examples: Calling their Israeli distributor the "Middle Eastern" distributor. Implying that the aforementioned distributor had been offended - but never actually saying they were (makes you wonder). Giving away vast numbers of supposedly "offensive" cards. Just add this to the list.

The Corrupter

In article <49hknq$h...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) wrote: > I believe the term 'Jyhad' was also created (coined) by WW for V:tM. Yes. As well all play, we can look in our rulebooks for a definition. To those who ascribe negotive connotations, I guess I have to say this: It is you who have the problem, and not the word. Wish I could give credit to who wrote this (Brian somebody) on rec.games.frp.storyteller in a thread on Etymology of words. [Basicly Jihad=Holy War and religious excuses for terrorism.] :Thank you, oh so much for your religious ethnocentrism. "Jihad" is Arabic :(classical) for "struggle". It is NOT a "holy war". Ascribing the meaning :"holy war" willy-nilly to "jihad" is the height of ignorance. A "holy war" is :but one type of "jihad". Anyway, Mohammed (PBUH) stated that the most :important jihad is the jihad within, not an external war. Jihad's connotation is not offensive. The people who connote it to mean wanton slaughter of innocents for a righteous cause are offensive. Disagree? Please, blast away. :) "I can send and receive e-mail even over the Internet"-aol commercial @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$ # Adrian Sullivan sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu Spoutingly yours 8^) # $ GAT/CS/O/WS R+++* tv&--- b++(+++)&+ t X++&-- 5->? e+*>++++ PS+&-+ @ # PE&++&- C(+++)$ UX+>+++$ N++(+) K+>++++ w---$>? M++$ r(+) y*+? 3.1# @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$

Thomas R Wylie

CurtAdams <curt...@aol.com> wrote: >There have been numerous prior indications that "Jyhad" being offensive >had little or nothing to do with the name change. Some examples: > >Calling their Israeli distributor the "Middle Eastern" distributor. Would you have preferred that I used "Mediterranean", or something? >Implying that the aforementioned distributor had been offended - but never >actually saying they were (makes you wonder). First, I'm not sure if the distributor was personally offended or not. Second, did it occur to you that the distributor probably doesn't have any interest in being publicly cited as one of the causes of a change such as this? Insisting that the distributor be made public makes *me* wonder if the person insisting cares about others' privacy at all. >Giving away vast numbers of supposedly "offensive" cards. To a forum that is not particularly international, and thus does not particularly overlap with the area that caused the concern in the first place. [ quoted text not captured ]

CurtAdams

In article <49mlj8$p...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes: >CurtAdams <curt...@aol.com> wrote: >>There have been numerous prior indications that "Jyhad" being offensive >>had little or nothing to do with the name change. Some examples: >> >>Calling their Israeli distributor the "Middle Eastern" distributor. > >Would you have preferred that I used "Mediterranean", or something? If they distribute to Italy, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, and Tunisia (or large subset) as well, sure. Do they? >>Implying that the aforementioned distributor had been offended - but never >>actually saying they were (makes you wonder). >First, I'm not sure if the distributor was personally offended or not. >Second, did it occur to you that the distributor probably doesn't have >any interest in being publicly cited as one of the causes of a change >such as this? Insisting that the distributor be made public makes *me* >wonder if the person insisting cares about others' privacy at all. Many people consider it narrowminded or bigoted for people to object to the use of words in public, *particularly* when they are words from other religions. My first post made it seem as if the Isreali distributor actually felt this way, and I got a very reasonable email which pointed out that they might be as broadminded and tolerant as anyone. So I'm just being careful not to accuse them of anything they didn't actually do. >>Giving away vast numbers of supposedly "offensive" cards. >To a forum that is not particularly international, and thus does not >particularly overlap with the area that caused the concern in the first place. So "Jyhad" is not a problem in the US, then?