Card idea -- Indenture

There are a few cards that centre around votes failing but there are currently no cards that make this a viable strategy in itself. Therefore, I recently came up with the following idea. ============================ Indenture Action Followers of Set - 1 blood (D) Put this card on a younger vampire controlled by your prey. During the acting vampire's controller's next minion phase, if this vampire is ready, he or she must call a vote to burn this card. Burn this card during your next untap phase. ============================ Imagine combining this card with cards like Pulling Strings, Political Backlash, Elder Kindred Network, Dread Gaze, Kindred Coercion, Surprise Influence and Treachery, most of which never seem to make it into decks. This would not only provide a way to use cards that I consider wallpaper, it would also provide a new and interesting way to oust your prey! It would not be a cakewalk however. You would need: --a Setite who is older than at least one of your prey's vampires --untapped minions to play reaction cards --vote control (I imagine the other Methuselahs would *not* be willing to help you most of the time) --a deck that cycles well --a controlled Ventrue if you want to take advantage of Elder Kindred Network --a controlled vampires with DOM if you want to take advantage of Kindred Coercion/Pulling Strings (or someone else with DOM) Thematically, this appeals to me because the Setites, while not a 'votey' clan in the World of Darkness per se, do have a lot of influence and 'favours' that can be cashed in. It seems appropriate to me that they could force a vampire to take actions that are not necessarily in its controller's best interests. This card could also be used, not just for anti-vote potential, but for interception! Force the vampire to take an undirected action which you then proceed to block. Since the Followers of Set are *ahem* not known for their blocking ability (nor would they have a lot of options once they blocked) I don't see this as a huge problem. In fact, it would be kinda fun to see a vampire with Mark of Damnation be blocked while taking this action :) Comments? Suggestions? Cheers, WES [And if it helps at all... I claim no ownership for this idea and would be more than happy to see White Wolf use this card without any compensation or complication etc. Please feel free to use this or something similar if you feel it is a worthwhile idea! Can we come up with some generic legalize that can be used or is this always a complete waste of time? Heh.]

Wes <gh...@NYETSPAMmnsi.net> skrev i diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:ap075...@enews2.newsguy.com... [ quoted text not captured ] I dis this idea only for one reason... Elder kindred network is, combined with kindred coercion way too overpowered... If there are enough votes on the table, this three-card combo could easily do 10-20 damage, and that's simply too much! /henrik

"Henrik Isaksson" <hen...@nissamedia.net> wrote > > I dis this idea only for one reason... Elder kindred network is, combined with kindred coercion way > too overpowered... If there are enough votes on the table, this three-card combo could easily do > 10-20 damage, and that's simply too much! Thank you for responding Henrik. I don't think you'd have that much to fear. --The votes on the table are very unlikely to work with you, especially if they realize what you are doing, which they no doubt would since you just placed this card on your prey's vampire. If anything, they'd make the vote fail unless they had some reason to want your prey to hurt. --You would need a Setite (probably an elder one) and a Ventrue with at least superior DOM for Elder Kindred Network and Kindred Coercion. That's a heavy investment right there. --As normal, you could not cycle cards during the referendum so you'd better have all those reaction cards in your hand at the right time. --You would also have to hope that your grand-prey doesn't block the vote itself, which may be more beneficial to them than having your deck behind them. --Your prey could avoid the effect of the card by forcing their vampire to hunt with a Blood Doll or Minion Tap, thus making the card useless. --Anyone at the table could kill the process with a Delaying Tactics or hell, even a Kindred Coercion of their own (though I'm not sure how the ordering of two Kindred Coercions would work... hmmm). --There is no inherent stealth with this card. Granted, not a big deal when it's a Setite card but that's one more thing you'll need to take care of when playing this card. There are a lot of factors that could go against you and there is quite a lot of set up required. I think a deck featuring this card would likely be a very difficult deck to play... but a fun one! Even the Ventrue Antitribu could get in on the game with their anti-vote abilities. However, you may have a point. Originally I had thought of giving the affected vampire 3 votes to vote *for* burning the card, which would give them a bit of a headstart. Do you think that would be enough? Cheers, WES

"Wes" <gh...@NYETSPAMmnsi.net> wrote in message news:<ap075...@enews2.newsguy.com>... > There are a few cards that centre around votes failing but there are > currently no cards that make this a viable strategy in itself. Therefore, I > recently came up with the following idea. > > ============================ > Indenture > Action > Followers of Set - 1 blood > (D) Put this card on a younger vampire controlled by your prey. During the > acting vampire's controller's next minion phase, if this vampire is ready, > he or she must call a vote to burn this card. Burn this card during your > next untap phase. > ============================ I think in general PAs are less focused on. There's only so many decent PAs (out of 110, only about 20 of them see consistant play) and so many decent PA modifiers (Awe BOs a few Melpomonee one's Telepathic Vote Counting). I don't know if this is just players choice, or if its because most PAs suck... I think more PA cards would be a welcome addition. Make more cards killable by PA, make more PA mods, more reason to include PA reactions, and add some oddball PAs callable by a more diverse group. If any set should include PAs it shoulda' been Camerilla, but thinking about it, Anarchs would be a good place for some odd ball PAs. ~SV

> "Henrik Isaksson" <hen...@nissamedia.net> wrote > > > > I dis this idea only for one reason... Elder kindred network is, combined > with kindred coercion way > > too overpowered... If there are enough votes on the table, this three-card > combo could easily do > > 10-20 damage, and that's simply too much! > > Thank you for responding Henrik. You're welcome Wes! > > I don't think you'd have that much to fear. > > --The votes on the table are very unlikely to work with you, especially if > they realize what you are doing, which they no doubt would since you just > placed this card on your prey's vampire. If anything, they'd make the vote > fail unless they had some reason to want your prey to hurt. With kindred coercion, it doesn't matter how they vote. > --You would need a Setite (probably an elder one) and a Ventrue with at > least superior DOM for Elder Kindred Network and Kindred Coercion. That's a > heavy investment right there. sure.. although you could play with say nefertiti or khay'tall and a weenie ventrue or even clan impersonate either way... > --As normal, you could not cycle cards during the referendum so you'd better > have all those reaction cards in your hand at the right time. well, this would be a case for those storage annexes! =) > --You would also have to hope that your grand-prey doesn't block the vote > itself, which may be more beneficial to them than having your deck behind > them. Perhaps play with daughters and that tricky stealth location? =) > --Your prey could avoid the effect of the card by forcing their vampire to > hunt with a Blood Doll or Minion Tap, thus making the card useless. That would be very evil of the prey, wouldn't it? Ruining your deck and all... > However, you may have a point. Originally I had thought of giving the > affected vampire 3 votes to vote *for* burning the card, which would give > them a bit of a headstart. Do you think that would be enough? That would actually only worsen the problem, as that would result in another 3 votes in damage for the Coercion! Let's assume this setup: Arika and Celine Chevalier in your team. Perhaps a priscus and 3 vampires out with 2 votes each. Celine plays Indenture with stealth. Arika plays kindred coercion, dread gaze and elder kindred network. Prey looses 15 pool. And that's not hard enough to achieve for that huge loss of pool. Compare with return to innocense! /henrik

> There are a few cards that centre around votes failing but there are > currently no cards that make this a viable strategy in itself. Therefore, I > recently came up with the following idea. yes - you're right on this point. i like the concept, however i see this card as extremely overpowered, never mind having a ready ventrue or 2 to play EKN. It;s like a 2 card combo to cause your prey to lose say... 15-20 pool. (sounds like a Setite card to me :p) It's like a Brujah card that forces a vampire controlled by your prey to attack a ready Brujah that you controlled. but really, do the snakes need more really good cards? i don't see any other clans using Free States - not to say it's a "Setite card" but it was MADE for them... burn blood, temptation, form of corruption.... damn how much more synergy could those cards have? a thought did come to mind - and it's the same concept as the no modifiers clause that is on the Blood Siege card: no action modifiers may be played during or after this referendum. but simply add, no reaction cards either. btw, did anyone read the new rulebook that came with CE? in section 6, it states that if a single minion has 2 or more mandatory actions to take, then they are "stuck" and cannot act. when did this ruling occur? it's very cool - makes lunatic's soooo much more powerful... he he Admittedly, there are so many vote related cards that currently are close to or are wallpaper. too bad. jds [ quoted text not captured ]

freakdrivr wrote: > btw, did anyone read the new rulebook that came with CE? in section I did. :-) > 6, it states that if a single minion has 2 or more mandatory actions > to take, then they are "stuck" and cannot act. when did this ruling > occur? it's very cool - makes lunatic's soooo much more powerful... > he he Lunatic's rush is only mandatory if the minion doesn't have to hunt. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"Henrik Isaksson" <hen...@nissamedia.net> wrote in message news:<ap1bev$qi36q$1...@ID-135400.news.dfncis.de>... > > With kindred coercion, it doesn't matter how they vote. > It matters if they choose to vote or not. And if they're not voting, which they probably won't do after you've played your combo the first time, you don't have to much to do with your cards. /Henrik

"Wes" <gh...@NYETSPAMmnsi.net> wrote in message news:<ap075...@enews2.newsguy.com>... > ============================ > Indenture > Action > Followers of Set - 1 blood > (D) Put this card on a younger vampire controlled by your prey. During the > acting vampire's controller's next minion phase, if this vampire is ready, > he or she must call a vote to burn this card. Burn this card during your > next untap phase. > ============================ Is the card to be burned "during your next untap phase" wether the vote is succesful or not? If so, the card looks kinda much like mindnumb, which the setites already can play... /Henrik

"henrik ericsson" <sg3kmb6...@death-star.com> wrote > > Is the card to be burned "during your next untap phase" wether the > vote is succesful or not? Yes, that is what happens. The forced vote only has a one round duration, so the vampire either votes it away on its controller's turn or it goes away *anyway* during your next untap phase. So you basically have a fairly narrow window of opportunity to take advantage of this card. > If so, the card looks kinda much like > mindnumb, which the setites already can play... I suppose Mind Numb is a little bit similar but Mind Numb only taps the vampire... it doesn't force them to take an action. For the record, I was thinking about Mind Rape and Baltimore Purge when I designed this card. Lunatic Eruption, mentioned by Dave (Freakdrivr) is probably a better comparison but honestly that card never crossed my mind. Cheers, WES

"freakdrivr" <freak...@ponymail.com> wrote in message news:fc6a5b20.0210...@posting.google.com... > > yes - you're right on this point. i like the concept, however i see > this card as extremely overpowered, never mind having a ready ventrue > or 2 to play EKN. It;s like a 2 card combo to cause your prey to lose > say... 15-20 pool. (sounds like a Setite card to me :p) It's like a > Brujah card that forces a vampire controlled by your prey to attack a > ready Brujah that you controlled. > > but really, do the snakes need more really good cards? i don't see > any other clans using Free States - not to say it's a "Setite card" > but it was MADE for them... burn blood, temptation, form of > corruption.... damn how much more synergy could those cards have? Thanks for your input Dave. It doesn't have to be a Setite card of course. Originally I was thinking it sounded more DOM thematically. And then of course I thought, yeah, like DOM needs more power than it already has--I don't think so! :) I don't really see my card having much synergy with other Serpentis/FoS cards actually. I think my previously mentioned Mark of Damnation idea would be fun but difficult to make work. Free States Rant (which I consider to be a FoS card :) might have some synergy I suppose, if only because you would presumably have some amount of vote control (though mostly reactionary votes). Do the Setites need more really good cards? I think they could use some yeah. Form of Corruption is great. Temptation is allright (though not as good as I used to think). Enticement is fun, though I haven't seen too many successful Enticement decks (though we've *all* tried hehe). But I find a lot of their cards don't really work well together. I'd love to see Serpentis approach more what it is like in the RPG. It's actually more of a combat discipline of course. For V:tES it has become something entirely different but cards like Skin of the Adder and Tongue of the Serpent are closer to what it should be than Temptation of Form of Corruption. The concept of 'corruption' where the snakes are concerned has little to do with the Serpentis discipline per se... it's just something the clan itself is good at. But I digress... > a thought did come to mind - and it's the same concept as the no > modifiers clause that is on the Blood Siege card: no action modifiers > may be played during or after this referendum. but simply add, no > reaction cards either. Could also make it similar to Free States Rant. If titles were worth one less vote, it would be harder to rack up a lot of pool damage out of this card. The damage should be more than say a KRC since you're doing a lot more work, but less than 10-20 pool as you and Henrik rightly noticed. I think losing 6-7 pool for a card like this is about right. For the work you're doing to make it happen, that seems about right to me. > btw, did anyone read the new rulebook that came with CE? in section > 6, it states that if a single minion has 2 or more mandatory actions > to take, then they are "stuck" and cannot act. when did this ruling > occur? it's very cool - makes lunatic's soooo much more powerful... > he he Hasn't this been the case for a while? > Admittedly, there are so many vote related cards that currently are > close to or are wallpaper. too bad. Yeah. It's kinda funny to hear you and Henrik complaining about how broken Elder Kindred Network would be with this card. How many times has anyone actually used that card??? And one designer card by Wes and you all cry about how broken it is hehe. Cheers, WES