rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Ideas for non-standard tournaments at upcoming USA conventions

23 messages from 14 participants · 06 January 2003 – 20 January 2003
original thread on Google Groups

LSJ

Does anyone have any suggestions for what they'd like to see in the way of non-standard (and unsanctioned) tournaments at the upcoming Gen*Con or Dragon*Con conventions? The Rapid Thought format seemed to draw quite a few participants last year. I'm looking for individual goal play (not team) that doesn't involve clan play/restriction, BTW - I understand that Bernie is planning to do the clan wars again this year. So, more Rapid Thought (or modified Rapid Thought), or something else? BTW, the Rapid Thought format is archived, like many things are, on Lasombra's page: http://www.thelasombra.com, for those of you who missed it last year at Gen*Con. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Joshua Duffin

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3E19B119...@white-wolf.com... > Does anyone have any suggestions for what they'd like to see in the way of > non-standard (and unsanctioned) tournaments at the upcoming Gen*Con or > Dragon*Con conventions? > > The Rapid Thought format seemed to draw quite a few participants last year. It did, and I was one of them on the "preview" night, but not in the "at GenCon" slot. After playing a few games of it, I don't think I like the Rapid Thought format all that much. It could be that the perceived problems (encouraging weenies, Anarch Revolts, etc) could be fixed though metagame evolution, but with most people not playing many games in the format, I don't know how likely that is to actually happen. > I'm looking for individual goal play (not team) that doesn't involve > clan play/restriction, BTW - I understand that Bernie is planning to do > the clan wars again this year. Trey and I were actually talking the other night about weird-format ideas: for example, a draft: like 5 packs of Bloodlines per player, and then after drafting the Bloodlines (probably Elder Drafting it), further packs would be drafted with each participant choosing what set he or she wanted each pack to be from. eg if you've been drafting Harbingers, you might want a Final Nights pack; if you've been drafting Gargoyles, you might want a Camarilla Edition pack. The problem with this is that it requires there to be a supply of all the sets on hand. But it seems like a fun way to get to play Bloodlines in a limited format, more effectively than if everyone has to use Sabbat War or Camarilla Edition (for example) to supplement them. > So, more Rapid Thought (or modified Rapid Thought), or something else? Modified Rapid Thought might be worthwhile. Like, add Anarch Revolt to the banned list, and impose a crypt-average-capacity minimum? I do like the 3-player 70-card 45-minute-round parts. Some version of the Succubus Club format would also be fun, I think. Everybody brings a deck; in preliminary rounds, you don't play your own deck, you play someone else's instead. You score points toward getting into the finals based not only on your performance with other people's decks but also on your deck's performance in other people's hands. In the finals, you would play your own deck. (Or you could have the finalists play each other's decks, which might be even more funny, now that I think of it.) You could do a similar but different thing where every player brings 4 decks and plays a different one (of his/her own) each round. We also came up with a variant of this where (to "enforce" the decks not being all the same) you can't use any one card (by title) in more than one of the decks. This would require a possibly-excessive amount of preparation by participants but could be pretty hilarious. Only one of your decks can have Wakes, only one can have Blood Dolls, etc. And if you play Minion Taps, Blood Dolls, and Tributes to the Master to get into the finals... your finals deck can't have any of them! hee hee. I'd also be interested in playing more games in the 40/40 format that was used for the Bloodlines prerelease - it makes Bloodlines "limited" playable without having to buy tons of cards. Josh brainstorm anyone?

Rawlings family

> I'm looking for individual goal play (not team) that doesn't involve > clan play/restriction, Just a couple off of the top of my head: 1) Hack-o-thon: Play begins with a Tension in the ranks in play. Tension in the ranks cannot be burned. Players receive victory points for burning their prey's vampires equal to half the burned vampires capacity (round up), in addition to the victory points earned from ousting prey and table win. The deal with the tension and rounding up is to dissuade people from using weenie decks. Ousting and winning the table still count for something, but the real points come from burning minions. Possibly grant a pool to the Meth who burns a vampire of their prey. Imagine the joy of multiple contestions, coupled with the down and dirty fighting. 2) Low-blood-o-thon: Play begins with a Strained Vitae Suply in play which cannot be burned. Someone can burn the edge to take control of a hunting ground (generic) card (which is a hunting ground like all the rest, only not clan or bloodline specific). This card can later be stolen by burning the edge. All blood gain is halved (round down, minimum 1) (including pool gain). Start play with 24 pool instead of 30. Play with low resources, and resources are difficult to reattain. Note that these names are extremely arbitrary and can easily be changed to something far more witty than I've picked out ;) Derek

berni...@attbi.comholdlespam

On Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:01:51 -0500, "Joshua Duffin" <jtdu...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message >news:3E19B119...@white-wolf.com... >> Does anyone have any suggestions for what they'd like to see in the way of >> non-standard (and unsanctioned) tournaments at the upcoming Gen*Con or >> Dragon*Con conventions? >> >> The Rapid Thought format seemed to draw quite a few participants last >year. <Snip: Rapid Thought> Didn't try it, so no opinion on it.. >Some version of the Succubus Club format would also be fun, I think. >Everybody brings a deck; in preliminary rounds, you don't play your >own deck, you play someone else's instead. You score points toward >getting into the finals based not only on your performance with >other people's decks but also on your deck's performance in other >people's hands. In the finals, you would play your own deck. (Or >you could have the finalists play each other's decks, which might >be even more funny, now that I think of it.) Here's the problem we saw with Succubus club decks; If you make your deck too elaborate, then less skilled players get their butts handed to them. The decks that do well (when we tried it) were the cookie cutter Stealth/Bleed, Mega-Vote, weenie Rush. While it was fun sitting and playing with other people's stuff, it didn't exactly spark any creative juices. >You could do a similar but different thing where every player >brings 4 decks and plays a different one (of his/her own) each >round. We also came up with a variant of this where (to "enforce" >the decks not being all the same) you can't use any one card (by >title) in more than one of the decks. This would require a >possibly-excessive amount of preparation by participants but could >be pretty hilarious. Only one of your decks can have Wakes, only >one can have Blood Dolls, etc. And if you play Minion Taps, Blood >Dolls, and Tributes to the Master to get into the finals... your >finals deck can't have any of them! hee hee. Something like this would be cool. Having to bring 3 decks, with a different deck used each round. If you make the finals, then you can use the deck of your choice (from the three you brought).. >I'd also be interested in playing more games in the 40/40 format >that was used for the Bloodlines prerelease - it makes Bloodlines >"limited" playable without having to buy tons of cards. > > >Josh > >brainstorm anyone? People really seem to like Storyline format decks (being clan specific). Why not run an event mirroring the storyline rules? It would be really cool if you had a promo card for PowerBase:Indianapolis. Wouldn't even have to be an official card :-) BernieTime Lansing, Michigan

Peter Muto

"Joshua Duffin" <jtdu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<avccq1$e2dcl$1...@ID-121616.news.dfncis.de>... > "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message > news:3E19B119...@white-wolf.com... > > Does anyone have any suggestions for what they'd like to see in the way of > > non-standard (and unsanctioned) tournaments at the upcoming Gen*Con or > > Dragon*Con conventions? > > > > <snip> > Josh > > brainstorm anyone? What about a kind of Highlander tournament? 1 copy maximum of each vampire in your crypt. And only 1 copy of any card that has unique written on it. I've also really wanted to try a variant where instead of shuffling all your deck, you CHOOSE your starting hand from your library and then shuffle the rest. The same could be done for your crypt. The question then becomes if we ALL get to choose our hands but order is random, do you use a slot of info highway? What if you go 4th and it's already been played? Do you play less common cards then? Or contest like a mad fiend? Or do you just put your killer combat combo in your hand and burn Arika the turn she comes out? Peter Muto VEKN Prince of Toronto

Tobias

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3E19B119...@white-wolf.com>... > Does anyone have any suggestions for what they'd like to see in the way of > non-standard (and unsanctioned) tournaments at the upcoming Gen*Con or > Dragon*Con conventions? > > The Rapid Thought format seemed to draw quite a few participants last year. > > I'm looking for individual goal play (not team) that doesn't involve > clan play/restriction, BTW - I understand that Bernie is planning to do > the clan wars again this year. > > So, more Rapid Thought (or modified Rapid Thought), or something else? > > BTW, the Rapid Thought format is archived, like many things are, on > Lasombra's page: http://www.thelasombra.com, for those of you who > missed it last year at Gen*Con. I'll toss one out, that may start some flamethrowers. Try 2 card challenge. I mentioned it before, but it works as follows: Any card you include in your deck, you MUST include twice. No more, no less. Now, I'm not fan of card limits for VTES, but it might be fun to try for once. Plenty of decks still possible - but malky S&B might be too powerful under this ruleset. Tobias Deventer

Jeff Kuta

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3E19B119...@white-wolf.com>... > Does anyone have any suggestions for what they'd like to see in the way of > non-standard (and unsanctioned) tournaments at the upcoming Gen*Con or > Dragon*Con conventions? I think probably the best received suggestions will end up being those that require the least amount of tweaking from players in order to participate. Sure, some people will have time to optimize for these events, but most will just want to grab a deck and be ready to go. Here are a couple ideas: 1) Reversal of Fortunes: The game starts as if a Reversal of Fortunes was played and Reversal of Fortunes is banned. Prey is still to the left. No one ever plays with this card and it might be fun to try it out for an entire game (or maybe not :)). 2) Power Politics: Any vote cards played by a Methuselah automatically pass (KRC, ConAg, ParityShift banned in this format though). There could be some pretty wacky attempts at using less seen political cards. Might be fun to make a Regaining the Upper Hand/Code of Milan Suspended deck--or maybe not. ;) 3) Honor the Elders: Each player has 11 transfers on their first turn and 4 every turn thereafter. This can give those decks with HUGE vampires a chance to square off with less interference from Weenie hordes. Sure the Horde might begin with 4 vampires, but you might have Lucas Halton in play at turn 0. 4) Send in the Clones! No vampires, library cards or titles contest. However, identically named vampires which enter combat with each other immediately burn. Yes, this means someone could play a crypt of 12 identical vampires. In honor of not-so-great economic times: 5) Location, location, location: All locations cost 1 less to play. 6) Employment assistance: All retainers and Allies cost 1 less to hire/recruit. 7) Pawn shop: All equipment costs 1 less to acquire. Finally.... 8) FOUR CARD LIMIT! (*duck*) Jeff

berni...@attbi.comholdlespam

[ quoted text not captured ] I start with 4 one caps, 4 Kine Resources Contested, 2 computer hacks and an Effective Management Sounds like fun! All kidding aside, your idea has merit if your starting crypt must contain vampires whose total blood = "x". If "x" is 20, you would then be able to avoid some problems. 20 is a pretty good number methinks. Even if you put it in a storyline format, where your crypt is 75% of a clan and your 4 starting vamps must be of that clan unless unable to do so (aka Pander: The Exception). Relegates Scarce Vamps as extras and out of the starting lineup (for the most part). Not sure I'm a fan of picking your opening hand, though it would be cool if each player could start with a unique location in play that thier chosen clan was normally able to play. Ventrue could start with the HQ Setites w/ khobar Towers Hunting Grounds, etc.. For Clans that don't have their own unique location, they may pick from any of the basic Uniques Blood Brothers get Club Zombie (for instance) Could be something workable.. BernieTime Lansing, Michigan

berni...@attbi.comholdlespam

[ quoted text not captured ] Jeff, You're a bad, bad, man.. BernieTime Lansing, Michigan

Talonz

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3E19B119...@white-wolf.com>... > Does anyone have any suggestions for what they'd like to see in the way of > non-standard (and unsanctioned) tournaments at the upcoming Gen*Con or > Dragon*Con conventions? > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=evOJ9.372980%24MGm1.47170%40news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dnew%2Btournament%2Bideas%2Bgroup:rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26selm%3DevOJ9.372980%2524MGm1.47170%2540news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com%26rnum%3D1 I have a feeling that link won't work due to its length, but if you do a search for 'new tournament ideas' the post should come up as the first item in a google search in the newsgroup. T

The Lasombra

[ quoted text not captured ] >http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=evOJ9.372980%24MGm1.47170%40news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dnew%2Btournament%2Bideas%2Bgroup:rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26selm%3DevOJ9.372980%2524MGm1.47170%2540news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com%26rnum%3D1 [ quoted text not captured ] If you find the original article, then click on "View This Article Only" and then on "Original Format", you get a managable link. http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=76d1d5ef.0212111127.32234ae1%40posting.google.com I personally am tiring of the ranking tourneys and even qualifying tourneys. The most popular tourney seem to be the storylines. Wouldn't more tourney types along that idea be beneficial to all then? What if these types were conveniently tied to existing tournament titles we have seen in use so that they actually mean something? Shadowfist uses a similar idea and you can see how they do it here; (go to page 3 and look for 'tournament types') http://www.shadowfist.com/documents/pdf/tournament_formats.pdf I propose the following; "Praxis Seizure/Crusade (your city)" Political decks only. Must have X(30?)cards that call or provide votes in your library. Optional: Everyone starts with a Primogen/Bishop in play. You may call a Praxis Seizure/Crusade(your city) as a +1 stealth political action. First person to hold that title for X turns wins the game. "Fire Dance" Something to do with agg damage?? "Judgement/Regent/Khabar:(your city)" Camarilla/Sabaat/Independent storyline decks only. "Slaughtering the Herd: (city)" Fattie vs Weenie decks! All decks must have a crypt composed of <5 caps or >6 cap vamps. "Bloodbath/Slaughterhouse" Combat decks only. Must have X(30?) combat/equipment cards that affect combat in library. "Blood Siege" Sabaat vs Camarilla. (in this kind of 'versus' tourney, might it be interesting to have all players of a side win as a whole? and/or use an alternating seating order such that X type decks always prey on Y type decks etc.? Probably a real hassle if more X types show up than Y but still doable to a certain degree.) "Agressive Tactics" Bleed decks only. X(20?) cards in deck must be bleed actions/modifiers. Further ideas? Problems? Anything?? I may just use these ideas for weekly games but personally I would love to see something like this fleshed out and given sanction. T

James Coupe

In message <df76291d.03010...@posting.google.com>, Peter Muto <megatr...@yahoo.com> writes: >I've also really wanted to try a variant where instead of shuffling >all your deck, you CHOOSE your starting hand from your library and >then shuffle the rest. The same could be done for your crypt. Played that, regularly. Since, for most intents and purposes, getting your uncontrolled region out *is* your crypt (not to all decks, but to many), we dropped that to one. It's really, really not worth it, in my experience. Everyone just tries to play the perfect combo, or put in all the Sudden Reversals, and so on. Half the time, they're balanced by the fact that you have to screw your deck up to get them going, including multiple copies. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 Hi! I'm Nancy Drew! You must be the Hardy Boys! 13D7E668C3695D623D5D

Rawlings family

My newfangled idea: Prepare a series of envelopes. In each envelope place a piece of paper which explains a mechanical change to the game. On each player's turn they roll a 10 sided die. If they roll a 1, draw an envelope at random, and apply the effect to the current game. For instance, a card might read: "Until the predator of this Methuselah does his discard phase all vampires are considered to have +1 strength" "Until someone takes a master phase action and burns two master cards, all vampires have 1 less vote" "Choose a vampire you control, that vampire burns three blood. If after they have burned that blood they have no blood on them, burn that vampire" "Whoever ousts the next Methuselah earns 9 pool instead of the ordinary 6" The possibilities are virtually endless. Such effects will be introduced infrequently (on a 5 player table there is a 50% chance per round that an envelope will be introduced), and as the table becomes less cluttered, the odds of an effect occuring become gradually less frequent (down to 20% per turn with only 2 players).

Joshua Duffin

"Peter Muto" <megatr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:df76291d.03010...@posting.google.com... > What about a kind of Highlander tournament? > 1 copy maximum of each vampire in your crypt. And only 1 copy of any > card that has unique written on it. I don't really see the point of only limiting Uniques to one per library - a lot of decks, you wouldn't have put in more than one anyway. But I do think it might be fun to play total-Highlander- VTES, ie only one copy of each vamp in the crypt and only one copy of each card in the library. 1CL might actually be enough different from the regular game to be interesting. As a variant, of course. :-) > I've also really wanted to try a variant where instead of shuffling > all your deck, you CHOOSE your starting hand from your library and > then shuffle the rest. The same could be done for your crypt. > The question then becomes if we ALL get to choose our hands but order > is random, do you use a slot of info highway? What if you go 4th and > it's already been played? Do you play less common cards then? Or > contest like a mad fiend? > Or do you just put your killer combat combo in your hand and burn > Arika the turn she comes out? Probably some kind of killer combo, yes. I don't know if it'd be a fun variant or not - some combos might be excessively rude. Maybe you should try it at home and report back? :-) Josh holy wack unlyrical lyrics, andre!

Joshua Duffin

<berni...@attbi.comHOLDLeSPAM> wrote in message news:3e1a616d....@netnews.attbi.com... > Here's the problem we saw with Succubus club decks; > If you make your deck too elaborate, then less skilled players > get their butts handed to them. The decks that do well (when we > tried it) were the cookie cutter Stealth/Bleed, Mega-Vote, weenie > Rush. Well, sure. The last time we tried it, I asked people to bring decklists and suggestions for how-to-play. Since your score is based on how other people do with your deck too, it's sort of in your interest for them to play it well. Nothing wrong with traditional archetypes, either, I think. Even if it's something fairly standard, just using someone else's build can be interesting. [the "bring all your own decks, switching each round" idea] > Something like this would be cool. > Having to bring 3 decks, with a different deck used each round. > If you make the finals, then you can use the deck of your choice (from > the three you brought).. It might be more fun to have the finalists use a fourth new deck instead of one of the earlier three - none of the earlier ones have any obvious claim on being the one that should go in the finals, and while you would be able to try to guess which of the three prelim decks the other finalists will be choosing... if you saw any of their prelim decks... the fact that not everyone will know all of the other finalists' decks suggests to me that it might be more equitable for no one to have any idea what the other finalists will be playing. If that sentence was followable. :-) > People really seem to like Storyline format decks (being clan specific). > Why not run an event mirroring the storyline rules? It would be really > cool if you had a promo card for PowerBase:Indianapolis. > Wouldn't even have to be an official card :-) Well, LSJ asked for non-clan-based variant rules, and since the Storylines are clan-based... plus, there are already kind of a ton of Storyline tournaments. :-) Josh pb: Indy would still be cool, though...

Wraith's Hand

"Rawlings family" <raw...@telus.net> wrote in message news:<ppwT9.5169$GA.1...@news2.telusplanet.net>... > My newfangled idea: > > Prepare a series of envelopes. In each envelope place a piece of paper > which explains a mechanical change to the game. On each player's turn they > roll a 10 sided die. If they roll a 1, draw an envelope at random, and > apply the effect to the current game. I like this idea, but when I read this post I was reminded of the "Mission Cards" for Risk. So perhaps instead of a new card about every turn, how about one card that gives a player an opitional way to oust their prey. An examble of a mission card could be, "Recruit 2 Allies and the Combined Cost has to be Greater Than or Equal to 3." Another thought is perhaps the player's pool fluctuates from turn to turn. The way I would go about doing this is every turn a player rolls a d6. If the result is odd the player gains as much pool as the roll, if it is even, they lose pool instead. Under this variation the fluctuation cannot make the player go below 1 pool. The roll would drop them down to one instead ousted the player. A variation on this idea of a fluctuating amount of pool is that the roll is optional, but if they do go below 1 pool they are ousted.

Wraith's Hand

If it was not clear before, with the first variation I suggested, the new objective should only be used once. After they have completed it, they will either have to oust their prey the old fashion way, or, if it makes the game more interesting, receive a new objective each time they oust their prey.

Rawlings family

Errol and Chris and the rest of the Vancouver crew are going to give this format a playtest on Wednesday. I'll post any interesting results. Here are the 50 events we'll be using: a.. The Methuselah with the most pool distributes 1 pool to each other Methuselah. b.. The Methuselah with the least pool collects 1 pool from each other Methuselah. c.. All titled vampires are considered to have 1 less vote. Any Methuselah may use a master phase action to add 1 counter to this card. If the number of counters on this card is equal to the number of Methuselahs in the game burn this card. d.. All vampires are considered to have +1 strength until the untap phase of the current Methuselah's next turn. e.. Whenever a Methuselah calls an unsuccessful referendum she burns 2 pool. f.. Any Methuselah may play a master card as an out-of-turn master phase action to cancel the effects of another Methuselah's master phase action. This card may be burned with a vote called at +1 stealth. g.. Whenever a Methuselah would gain pool instead put a number of counters on this card equal to the amount of pool that would be gained. Any vampire may take a D action (that any Methuselah can block) to place all of the counters from this card onto the acting minion. Any Methuselah may burn this card by using a master phase action to discard two master cards. h.. Put 10 counters on this card. The cost of rescuing vampires from torpor may be paid by removing counters from this card. Burn this card if no counters remain on it. i.. Master cards cost 1 additional pool to play. Any minion may take a +1 stealth action to add a counter to this card. If the number of counters on this card is equal to the number of Methuselahs in the game burn this card. j.. All Methuselahs may make 2 additional transfer phase actions during their transfer phase. Any Methuselah may spend 6 transfer phase actions and 1 pool to burn this card. k.. All vampires gain one additional blood when hunting. Any vampire may take a D action (that any Methuselah can block) to burn this card. l.. All Camarilla vampires gain 1 additional vote. Burn this card if a Camarilla vampire enters torpor. m.. All combats have a mandatory press that is only usable to continue combat. Burn this card if a vampire is burned as a result of combat. n.. Sabbat vampires may not have blood hunts called upon them until the untap phase of the current Methuselah's next turn. o.. Each minion gets +1 strength for each round beyond the first that combat lasts. Burn this card when a Methuselah is ousted. p.. The next Methuselah to be ousted is worth 9 pool, rather than the regular 6. q.. The next Methuselah to be ousted is worth 3 pool, rather than the regular 6. r.. All Sabbat vampires may attack Camarilla vampires as a D action, and all Camarilla vampires may attack Sabbat vampires as a D action. Each time a vampire is torpored add a counter to this card. If the number of counters on this card is equal to the number of Methuselahs in the game burn this card. s.. No minion may bleed for more than two (ignore excess) until the untap phase of the current Methuselah's next turn. t.. Whenever a Methuselah loses pool, put it on this card. Any vampire may take a D action (that any Methuselah can block) to move one counter to his Methuselah's pool. If this card is reduced to 0 counters in this way burn it. u.. Any Methuselah may attempt to block any bleed action taken by any other Methuselah. Burn this card if a Methuselah is ousted. v.. Each Methuselah draws 2 vampires from their crypt and places them in their uncontrolled region. w.. At the end of Methuselah's discard phase they may untap a vampire that they control. If they do not untap a vampire in this fashion add a counter to this card. If the number of counters on this card is equal to the number of Methuselahs in the game burn this card. x.. Unless a Methuselah takes a master phase and burns a pool they may not declare a bleed action in there turn. y.. Each Methuselah burns the top card of their crypt. The Methuselah burned the vampire with the greatest capacity gains an amount of pool equal to the burned vampire with the least pool. If two or more vampires have the identical greatest capacity, divide the pool gain equally between those Methuselahs (round down). z.. During each Methuselah's master phase choose a minion in play. That minion burns a blood or life. Burn this card when the next event card is drawn. aa.. All weapons inflict +2 damage. Burn this card if a weapon is burned. ab.. Put 5 counters on this card, each time a minion equips, he may draw 1 counter from this card to pay the cost of the equipment. Burn this card if no counters remain. ac.. Put 2 counters on this card per Methuselah. Methuselahs may use counters from this card to pay for non-transfer pool cards. Burn this card if no counters remain. ad.. Each Methuselah chooses an event card in play. Burn that event card. ae.. During each Methuselah's turn their hand size is considered 2 larger. A player may spend a master phase action to burn 5 cards to burn this card. af.. Each Methuselah may gain an additional master phase action if they skip the discard phase of their turn. A Methuselah may skip their turn to burn this card. ag.. All current Methuselahs must chip in enough money to buy the event card designer 1 drink. A Methuselah may choose not to contribute by burning 2 pool. ah.. A Methuselah may direct bleed actions towards their predator if they burn a blood from the acting minion. Burn this card if a Methuselah is ousted in this fashion. ai.. Burn all locations. A Methuselah may maintain control of a location by burning one pool for each location they intend to keep. aj.. Each Methuselah chooses a ready minion during their master phase, that minion cannot be the target of D actions until the beginning of the choosing Methuselahs next turn. Burn this card if any of the selected minions is put into torpor or burnt. ak.. Each Methuselah burns a vampire in their uncontrolled region. al.. Each Methuselah burns the top 5 cards of their library. For each card that requires a title or specific clan that that Methuselah currently controls gain 2 pool. am.. Each Methuselah plays with an open hand. Burn this card if a Methuselah possesses no ready minions. an.. Methuselahs may only replace cards during each Methuselah's untap phase. If a Methuselah ever has 1 card in hand, burn this card. ao.. All combat cards require an extra blood or life to play. Each time a combat card is played put a counter on this card. If there are a number of counters equal to or greater than 4 multiplied by the number of Methuselahs burn this card. ap.. A blocking minion may set the range of a combat before combat begins by burning a blood. Burn this card if a blocking minion used this ability and was sent to torpor. aq.. Whenever a Methuselah is successfully bled put half the blood (round up) to the side. During that Methuselah's master phase she may transfer 1 of those blood to a ready minion she controls. ar.. Once per action an acting minion may burn 1 blood to cancel a 'untap' or 'act as is untapped' reaction card. Any vampire may take a D action (that any Methuselah can block) to burn this card. as.. Each Methuselah gains 1 pool for every vampire above 8 capacity, and loses 1 pool for every vampire below 4 capacity. at.. Vampires with a capacity above 8 may not block vampires with a capacity below 4 until the untap phase of the current Methuselah's next turn. au.. Reaction cards that change the target of bleed actions cost an additional pool to play. Burn this card if a bleed action result in the loss of more than 3 pool. av.. Strike: combat ends cards cost an additional pool to play. Burn this card if an acting minion ends combat as a strike but still performs a successful action this turn. aw.. When declaring an action, a vampire may burn a blood to have either +1 bleed or +2 strength for the duration of the action. If a vampire under the effect of either bonus goes to torpor burn this card. ax.. Whenever a Methuselah plays a card they may draw an additional card (and discard back to their regular hand size). Burn this card if a player takes a master phase action to discard 5 cards. Derek Rawlings

Derek Ray

In message <ppwT9.5169$GA.1...@news2.telusplanet.net>, "Rawlings family" <raw...@telus.net> mumbled something about: >Prepare a series of envelopes. In each envelope place a piece of paper >which explains a mechanical change to the game. On each player's turn they >roll a 10 sided die. If they roll a 1, draw an envelope at random, and >apply the effect to the current game. *snip* >The possibilities are virtually endless. Such effects will be introduced >infrequently (on a 5 player table there is a 50% chance per round that an >envelope will be introduced), and as the table becomes less cluttered, the That's a lot, by the way. How many times have you flipped a coin and had it come up heads? If every new turn something else random happens, it pretty much tosses all strategy aside, and a lot of complex decks become no longer viable in its wake. A strong player's expectation is already not much more than 20% in any single game. Adding the kind of variance that the above brings might make it quicker (yet less painless) just to roll a die and see who wins... =/ Worse, the list of events must be painstakingly balanced. If I can read the list... say... the list you just posted... and determine that +strength happens a lot more often than -strength, and anti-vote happens a lot more than positive-vote, then I can ditch my vote defense, load up on Celerity, and "beat the odds". Which I would do, after reading your list -- almost nothing happens in there to weaken combat except that one "rescue-for-free" card, and a lot of things happen to strengthen it. It's a neat idea and all, but I think it'll need a lot more tuning than appears at first glance to make it viable. -- "There's no gray. There's just white that's got grubby." -- T.P.

Halcyan 2

One non-standard tournament that I'd be really interested in seeing is one that lifts the Group restriction. Wouldn't it be fun if Jaroslav and Don Cruez could team up in the same deck? Or Ulugh and Anastasz? In addition, by analyzing the top decks, we might gain some further insights on how effective or necessary the Grouping mechanic really is. After quite some time to digest it, I've pretty much learned to accept the Grouping rule and I will admit that it has its advantages. However it might be amusing to have a tourney where you could relax such a rule and see just how bad or abusive the alleged crypt min/maxing will be... Halcyan 2

Sacha

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3E19B119...@white-wolf.com>... > Does anyone have any suggestions for what they'd like to see in the way of > non-standard (and unsanctioned) tournaments at the upcoming Gen*Con or > Dragon*Con conventions? > > The Rapid Thought format seemed to draw quite a few participants last year. > > I'm looking for individual goal play (not team) that doesn't involve > clan play/restriction, BTW - I understand that Bernie is planning to do > the clan wars again this year. > > So, more Rapid Thought (or modified Rapid Thought), or something else? > > BTW, the Rapid Thought format is archived, like many things are, on > Lasombra's page: http://www.thelasombra.com, for those of you who > missed it last year at Gen*Con. Why not try using somthing like: The final night. Use Damens (or make em up as needed) templates for the Antidaluvians. Each player is assighned a specifice clan, and are provided a copie of the Antideluvian card, then let all hell break loose. Pc.

Tobias

"Rawlings family" <raw...@telus.net> wrote in message news:<zMNW9.33150$Ui4.1...@news1.telusplanet.net>... > Errol and Chris and the rest of the Vancouver crew are going to give this > format a playtest on Wednesday. I'll post any interesting results. Just a few questions that the players might have at that time. A general comment is that you might have to add 'put this card into play' to a number of them, or add it as a general rule: > Here are the 50 events we'll be using: > > a.. The Methuselah with the most pool distributes 1 pool to each other > Methuselah. Ousts possible this way? > b.. The Methuselah with the least pool collects 1 pool from each other > Methuselah. Ousts possible this way? > c.. All titled vampires are considered to have 1 less vote. Any > Methuselah may use a master phase action to add 1 counter to this card. If > the number of counters on this card is equal to the number of Methuselahs in > the game burn this card. Make sure you know all the rules about which vampires are considered to be titled. > d.. All vampires are considered to have +1 strength until the untap phase > of the current Methuselah's next turn. > e.. Whenever a Methuselah calls an unsuccessful referendum she burns 2 > pool. > f.. Any Methuselah may play a master card as an out-of-turn master phase > action to cancel the effects of another Methuselah's master phase action. > This card may be burned with a vote called at +1 stealth. 'play' or 'discard'? > g.. Whenever a Methuselah would gain pool instead put a number of counters > on this card equal to the amount of pool that would be gained. Any vampire > may take a D action (that any Methuselah can block) to place all of the > counters from this card onto the acting minion. Any Methuselah may burn > this card by using a master phase action to discard two master cards. I would suggest changing the wording so that the counters on the acting vampire become blood (defining their function). I would also like to suggest that a vampire may only take enough counters to fill up to capacity - any counters in surplus stay on the card. > h.. Put 10 counters on this card. The cost of rescuing vampires from > torpor may be paid by removing counters from this card. Burn this card if > no counters remain on it. > i.. Master cards cost 1 additional pool to play. Any minion may take a +1 > stealth action to add a counter to this card. If the number of counters on > this card is equal to the number of Methuselahs in the game burn this card. > j.. All Methuselahs may make 2 additional transfer phase actions during > their transfer phase. Any Methuselah may spend 6 transfer phase actions and > 1 pool to burn this card. > k.. All vampires gain one additional blood when hunting. Any vampire may > take a D action (that any Methuselah can block) to burn this card. > l.. All Camarilla vampires gain 1 additional vote. Burn this card if a > Camarilla vampire enters torpor. > m.. All combats have a mandatory press that is only usable to continue > combat. Burn this card if a vampire is burned as a result of combat. > n.. Sabbat vampires may not have blood hunts called upon them until the > untap phase of the current Methuselah's next turn. > o.. Each minion gets +1 strength for each round beyond the first that > combat lasts. Burn this card when a Methuselah is ousted. So that's cumulative per round? Nasty. [ quoted text not captured ] add 'action', change 'and burns' to 'to burn', change 'there' to 'their' > y.. Each Methuselah burns the top card of their crypt. The Methuselah > burned the vampire with the greatest capacity gains an amount of pool equal > to the burned vampire with the least pool. If two or more vampires have the > identical greatest capacity, divide the pool gain equally between those > Methuselahs (round down). > z.. During each Methuselah's master phase choose a minion in play. That > minion burns a blood or life. Burn this card when the next event card is > drawn. Add which methuselah does the choosing. > aa.. All weapons inflict +2 damage. Burn this card if a weapon is burned. > ab.. Put 5 counters on this card, each time a minion equips, he may draw 1 > counter from this card to pay the cost of the equipment. Burn this card if > no counters remain. Completely pay the cost, or reduce the cost by 1? > ac.. Put 2 counters on this card per Methuselah. Methuselahs may use > counters from this card to pay for non-transfer pool cards. Burn this card > if no counters remain. What's a 'non-transfer pool card'? > ad.. Each Methuselah chooses an event card in play. Burn that event card. So burn up to 5 event cards, or burn the one most selected? > ae.. During each Methuselah's turn their hand size is considered 2 larger. > A player may spend a master phase action to burn 5 cards to burn this card. Remove 'considered' > af.. Each Methuselah may gain an additional master phase action if they > skip the discard phase of their turn. A Methuselah may skip their turn to > burn this card. > ag.. All current Methuselahs must chip in enough money to buy the event > card designer 1 drink. A Methuselah may choose not to contribute by burning > 2 pool. Don't. I understand and find it funny, but it adds player solvability as a criterion for being able to win. [ quoted text not captured ] Have fun! Tobias Deventer

Rawlings family

Thanks for the advice. Most all of your suggestions have been implemented. > > a.. The Methuselah with the most pool distributes 1 pool to each other > > Methuselah. > Ousts possible this way? Before the game has begun, the players are fully aware of what the cards do, thus they must strategize according. If they stay at a dangerously low level of pool and are ousted as a result, it is a risk that failed on their part. > > g.. Whenever a Methuselah would gain pool instead put a number of counters > > on this card equal to the amount of pool that would be gained. Any vampire > > may take a D action (that any Methuselah can block) to place all of the > > counters from this card onto the acting minion. Any Methuselah may burn > > this card by using a master phase action to discard two master cards. > I would suggest changing the wording so that the counters on the > acting vampire become blood (defining their function). I would also > like to suggest that a vampire may only take enough counters to fill > up to capacity - any counters in surplus stay on the card. a.. Whenever a Methuselah would gain pool instead put a number of counters on this card equal to the amount of pool that would be gained. Any vampire may take a D action (that any Methuselah can block) to place as many counters as would fill him to his maximum capacity from this card onto the acting minion as blood. Any Methuselah may burn this card by using a master phase action to discard two master cards. > > o.. Each minion gets +1 strength for each round beyond the first that > > combat lasts. Burn this card when a Methuselah is ousted. > So that's cumulative per round? Nasty. Isn't it though? Beware Undead Persistence! > > aa.. All weapons inflict +2 damage. Burn this card if a weapon is burned. > > ab.. Put 5 counters on this card, each time a minion equips, he may draw 1 > > counter from this card to pay the cost of the equipment. Burn this card if > > no counters remain. > Completely pay the cost, or reduce the cost by 1? a.. Put 5 counters on this card, each time a minion equips, he may use 1 counter from this card to reduce the cost of this equipment by 1. Burn this card if no counters remain. > > ac.. Put 2 counters on this card per Methuselah. Methuselahs may use > > counters from this card to pay for non-transfer pool cards. Burn this card > > if no counters remain. > What's a 'non-transfer pool card'? Completely reworded: a.. Put 2 counters on this card per Methuselah. Methuselahs may use counters from this card on a 1 to 1 basis to pay the cost of master cards and equipment. Burn this card if no counters remain. > > ad.. Each Methuselah chooses an event card in play. Burn that event card. > So burn up to 5 event cards, or burn the one most selected? a.. Each Methuselah chooses an event card in play. Burn those selected event cards. > > ag.. All current Methuselahs must chip in enough money to buy the event > > card designer 1 drink. A Methuselah may choose not to contribute by burning > > 2 pool. > Don't. I understand and find it funny, but it adds player solvability > as a criterion for being able to win. True... Reworked entirely to address Derek Ray's pro-combat concern. a.. Acting minions may not play strikes in the first round of combat. A Methuselah may burn 4 vampires from their uncontrolled region to burn this card. I'll tell y'all how it goes. Derek Rawlings