Kindred Most Wanted artwork and layout

I would like to thank White Wolf for letting Christopher Shy take a rest. I did not see any vampires done by him at the pre-release, and with 15 people drafting, we saw just about every vampire. I would like to thrash White Wolf for failing to be consistent on layout, again. Discipline symbols are on different places on every card. Clans required to play cards are on different places on every card. Please hire a professional layout individual and make a professional looking product instead of this amateur/intern inferior product. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com Your best online source for information about V:TES. Now also featuring individual card sales and sales of booster and starter box displays.

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 23:40:08 -0500, The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> scrawled: >I would like to thank White Wolf for letting Christopher Shy take a >rest. I did not see any vampires done by him at the pre-release, and >with 15 people drafting, we saw just about every vampire. > >I would like to thrash White Wolf for failing to be consistent on >layout, again. > >Discipline symbols are on different places on every card. > >Clans required to play cards are on different places on every card. > >Please hire a professional layout individual and make a professional >looking product instead of this amateur/intern inferior product. to be honest, at least the expansion symbol isn't totally overshadowing the rest of the card this time around, which i am happier with. chin up! but.....did anyone else notice that the backs are the other way around to all the other sets? i kept drawing my cards upside down from my library. salem only half honest.

The Lasombra a écrit : > I would like to thank White Wolf for letting Christopher Shy take a > rest. I did not see any vampires done by him at the pre-release, and > with 15 people drafting, we saw just about every vampire. Well, it IS a matter of tastes. As you know lots of players love Shy's art, even if I must admit on vampires he tends to repeat himself (less so in recent extensions). But PLEAAAAAASE WW : don't take any more work from Ken Meyer Jr !!! At best, he makes acceptable drawings when you don't look at them up too close. At worst : he makes pure, intense, absolute shit. 3 times out of four, when I saw an ugly drawing at the pre-release, it was signed by him (although I must admit Steve Ellis's Jane Sims beats them all). Let's see among the ones I have as of now, by artist and then vamp : a + for each picture I like, a - for each dislike, a 0 for an ok picture ; 2 ++ or -- for tremendous like / hate. Steve Ellis : - Benedict Giovanni ; not bad. + - Jane Sims. The ugliest mug of the set. -- - Vardar Vardarian is as caricatural and ugly as his name. - Rick Martin : - Echo. Real nice in ugliness. + Becky Jollensten : - Count Germaine, Adv. Nice and original. + Ken Meyer Jr : - Valerius base : discreet, somewhat stylish, but does not bear well a second look, way too flat. 0 - Ambrogino Giovanni, Adv. Mug nearly ok, weird hand. Could pass. 0 - Tatiana Stepanova is just flat and plain ugly. - Steve Prescott : - Janey Pickman. Nice, and not only the tits. ;) + - Louhi, in the same cartoonish style, is a nice weird old hag, closer to Nosfie than !Malk. + Thomas Denmark : - Mushin Samir. 0 James Stowe : - Joe "Boot" Hill. Right out of a western goen ghoulish nightmare !! + - Elihu is a weird and classy character, in a sick way. + Lawrence Snelly (back to drawing) : - Azaneal, dark and mysterious at first, suffers from close look. 0 Brian LeBlanc : - Amaravati. Nice and characteristic. + Of course I miss many vamps as of now. And these are only personnal impressions, and as I said Ken Meyer's worst isn't here. But Steve Ellis could make a close second (first ?) worst, while some new names come out rather well ! More to come soon... ----------------- Orpheus, Necromonger

I hadnt noticed but you are correct the backs are effectivly on incorectly. What I did notice is that the all of the card are warped - which can only be down to the use of cheap card, which is a little off when the prices have gone up. Piers

Piers wrote: > I hadnt noticed but you are correct the backs are effectivly on > incorectly. Eh? The Word "vampire" goes down (from the top of the card to the bottom) on the same side of the card as the marble stripe on the other side (if your thumb is on the vampire side, it's also on the bar side). At least, on all the cards that I've checked (and I've checked cards from all the sheets). Which cards do you have that are different? -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

> Steve Ellis : > - Jane Sims. The ugliest mug of the set. -- That's the point. She's fantastically ugly.

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 20:37:56 -0500, LSJ <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> scrawled: >Piers wrote: >> I hadnt noticed but you are correct the backs are effectivly on >> incorectly. > >Eh? The Word "vampire" goes down (from the top of the card to the >bottom) on the same side of the card as the marble stripe on the >other side (if your thumb is on the vampire side, it's also on the >bar side). um, yeah. i was just trying to freak people out with my post. i gave a hint in my sig...where i said i was only half honest. i haven't actually noticed any back reversals. :) salem http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm (replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 21:55:20 -0500, Gregory Stuart Pettigrew <ethe...@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> scrawled: >> Steve Ellis : >> - Jane Sims. The ugliest mug of the set. -- > >That's the point. She's fantastically ugly. i found lorrie dunsirn to be a bad drawing of an ugly person. [ quoted text not captured ]

I don´t know if this has been discussed already alot, but I kind of want to know. A new font, and more space between lines, was introduced in 10th Anniversary, and also appear in KMW - why? The old text was nothing wrong with, and why the inconsistency? Thanks for any reply.

[ quoted text not captured ] Whoever made Tariq-ADV and Petaniqua the Malk. Thou shalt not make shitty pics of The Baldington!

> > would like to thank White Wolf for letting Christopher Shy take a rest. I did not see any vampires done by him at the pre-release, and with 15 people drafting, we saw just about every vampire. > Well, it IS a matter of tastes. As you know lots of players love Shy's art, even if I must admit on vampires he tends to repeat himself (less so in recent extensions). But PLEAAAAAASE WW : don't take any more work from Ken Meyer Jr !!! interesting... art is always a matter of taste (in the cas eof ken meyer jr. as in christopher shys). i like both in some way... in my eyes the highlights of the set are: james stowe with: joe 'boot' hill and elihu. both are brilliant... alejandro colucci: skidmark. this is how nos should look... and rik martin with: true loves face. well...fuck me... the worst are: jim dibartolo: the setite and baali pictures look rather flat and plastic... richard thomas: rabbat. i so was looking forward to that one and then...that...guess i wont even try to make it useful in some way just because of the shity artwork... david day: black annis. this is a joke right? i mean my nine years old niece could draw a scarier vampire that this one... but as i said. its all just a matter of taste...

Otto Koskinen wrote: > Whoever made Tariq-ADV and Petaniqua the Malk. > Thou shalt not make shitty pics of The Baldington! Personally I prefer Petaniqua the Malk over Petaniqua the Baali, even though the former looks like Watenda's sister after being beaten on with the ugly stick. The Baali version is some sort of weird and evil Marvel-esque dog-cow-woman -hybrid. Ewwww. On the other hand, lots of good vamp pics in the set as well. I was especially surprised to see that David Day has produced some decent art for a change. See Janni for an example of GOOD, but Maureen the Vulcan Priestess for an example of not so good, but not as bad as some of his god-awful scribblings in Dark Ages: Fae. This time the "Best Vampire Portraits In Expansion" award goes to Rik Martin. All his pics so far look very very good. Honourable mention to Monte Moore for Marion French. :) --CV

Hmmm is possible i shouldnt post in the middle of the night - when ive not really had any sleep, it seems to leave me easily lead :) Yeah the backs seem fine to me in the light of day :) I have to say I really like Ken Meyer Jr's art work & I was very glad to see some more examples of his stuff in the new set - especially given that he di most/all of the art for the KMW book. Id just like some more Tim Bradstreet then id be happy. Piers

In message <8dcf8be2.0502...@posting.google.com>, Piers <Monst...@gmail.com> writes: >Id just like some more Tim Bradstreet then id be happy. Given that Tim is a seriously good artist, I'm not sure you'd like the amount of money that White Wolf would likely need to throw at him and then extract from the rest of us. -- James Coupe "Why do so many talented people turn out to be sexual PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D deviants? Why can't they just be normal like me and EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 look at internet pictures of men's cocks all day?" 13D7E668C3695D623D5D -- www.livejournal.com/users/scarletdemon/

[ quoted text not captured ] New art director. She felt like changing it. That's what she told me. Kevin M., Prince of Henderson, NV (USA) "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier

[ quoted text not captured ] As for the "new font" I had big problems with the old one. Look at the Path of Lilith, for example. The font needed to have more meat to it. I like this one better. -Robert

> Given that Tim is a seriously good artist, I'm not sure you'd like the > amount of money that White Wolf would likely need to throw at him and > then extract from the rest of us. Im pretty sure the amount of money we spend on little bits of card would easily pay for anyone to do the art work.... Piers

[ quoted text not captured ] Really? I'm curious. How much do you think each artist gets paid for each piece of card art? -Robert

In message <1109106259....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] Or how much money is actually left over once printers, distributors, material, shipping, packaging and the like are paid for, and prize support, promos, White Wolf staff wages etc. There's a reason a lot of card games fail. That they're cheap to make and easy to make a profit on doesn't seem to be a likely reason for that. [ quoted text not captured ]

Orpheus wrote: > But PLEAAAAAASE WW : don't take any more work from Ken Meyer Jr !!! At > best, he makes acceptable drawings when you don't look at them up too > close. At worst : he makes pure, intense, absolute shit. 3 times out of > four, when I saw an ugly drawing at the pre-release, it was signed by > him (although I must admit Steve Ellis's Jane Sims beats them all). > For me KMJ is one of the best artists in VtES. Think of the fantastic Succubus, Elysian Fields or the Shadow Court Satyr. Great. I'm curious about his new pictures. Valerius isn't that great I have to admit. What do you all think of Monte Moore? I like the few vampires I saw of him.

On 23 Feb 2005 00:05:10 -0800, Joscha <joscha...@gmx.de> wrote: > For me KMJ is one of the best artists in VtES. Think of the fantastic > Succubus, Elysian Fields or the Shadow Court Satyr. Great. Agreed. He is one of the better artists. I haven't checked his KMW art yet, but his former work for VTES was satisfactory. -- Bye, Daneel

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 00:39:50 +0000, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: >> Really? I'm curious. How much do you think each artist gets paid for >> each piece of card art? > > Or how much money is actually left over once printers, distributors, > material, shipping, packaging and the like are paid for, and prize > support, promos, White Wolf staff wages etc. > > There's a reason a lot of card games fail. That they're cheap to make > and easy to make a profit on doesn't seem to be a likely reason for > that. I'm curious when WW will start worrying about the salary I get. I mean, they should do everything to help me get a higher salary, else my financial status will not be sufficient to keep up playing the game as new expansions come out. It should be their top priority to even give me a lot of money, so that I can use some of that money to purchase more VTES (and the rest to live a more luxurious life). Hmm. Maybe it would be best to let WW worry about their side and me worry about mine. I'll make sure my salary is OK and they make sure they stay afloat and produce a quality product. Sounds like a fair deal to me. If they flunk it, I draw the line; until then, I'm happily wasting my hard-earned cash on their cards (and happily bitching about how this-and-that is so-and-so). -- Bye, Daneel

Daneel <dan...@eposta.hu> wrote in message news:<opsmna3j...@news.chello.hu>... [ quoted text not captured ] I like KMJ a lot too. To be honest, I don't care that much if a pic is great or not (although I highly appreciate it when one is), as long as it gives the vampire a look different from the rest. Like any other card really, I think vampires should be immideately recognizable by their pic. Therefor I don't like the paintshopped photo-with-some-grey-overlaying pics at all (Chris Shy, Lawrence Snelly, Max Fellwalker). Especially if it is clearly a photo of a real person, which IMHO takes some of the "fantasy-world" flavor out of the game. I own a lot of "old" WotC VTES cards and I really wish Kaja Foglio, Mark Tedin and Anson Maddocks should be hired for art by WW... Teeka

Orpheus wrote: > The Lasombra a écrit : > > I would like to thank White Wolf for letting Christopher Shy take a > > rest. I did not see any vampires done by him at the pre-release, and > > with 15 people drafting, we saw just about every vampire. > > Well, it IS a matter of tastes. As you know lots of players love Shy's > art, even if I must admit on vampires he tends to repeat himself (less > so in recent extensions). > > But PLEAAAAAASE WW : don't take any more work from Ken Meyer Jr !!! At > best, he makes acceptable drawings when you don't look at them up too > close. At worst : he makes pure, intense, absolute shit. Heeeeyyy. No way man. KMJ does great work. We've purchased a bunch of them. > Let's see among the ones I have as of now, by artist and then vamp : a + > for each picture I like, a - for each dislike, a 0 for an ok picture ; 2 > ++ or -- for tremendous like / hate. > > Steve Ellis : > - Benedict Giovanni ; not bad. + > - Jane Sims. The ugliest mug of the set. -- That was a good pic, IMO. I think Ellis usually does great work. I also liked his Mercy for Seth from KMW. > - Vardar Vardarian is as caricatural and ugly as his name. - yeah, not his best. > Becky Jollensten : > - Count Germaine, Adv. Nice and original. + Becky did good work, IMO. Like her library cards too. Wish she'd spent more time aligning clan icons and less time painting, however. > Steve Prescott : > - Janey Pickman. Nice, and not only the tits. ;) + > - Louhi, in the same cartoonish style, is a nice weird old hag, closer > to Nosfie than !Malk. + Another talented Steve. Janey Pickman is fantastic. > James Stowe : > - Joe "Boot" Hill. Right out of a western goen ghoulish nightmare !! + > - Elihu is a weird and classy character, in a sick way. + Yeah, good stuff! Other comments... Steve Edison.... bleck. Avery Butterworth(sp?)....bleck bleck bleck. (I think Avery did at least 5 library cards and they just looked bland to me). Mark Poole's Ferraille even makes a simple door look interesting. He did good work in this set! John Bridges! I really liked his stuff. He goes waaay back too! Did a bunch of classic work in Jyhad. IIRC, he did Undue Influence and a couple of others in this set. (If that wasn't John then I also like whoever did Undue Influence) Monte Moore always does great quality work but something about his style just bugs me. Maybe it'd fit better in a D&D setting. Maybe it just seems too formulaic...(step 1. use female character. step 2. add highlights to tight black pleather clothing. step 3...) I thought it worked better as a portrait than the library cards. However, I'm sure that's just me, though. He's skilled and probably well-liked. -Robert

"Robert Goudie" <rob...@vtesinla.org> wrote in news:1109176974.1...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: > Heeeeyyy. No way man. KMJ does great work. We've purchased a bunch of > them. KMJ _has done_ great work in the past, but some of his modern stuff over the last 2-3 expansions is kind of lacking, I have to say. >> Steve Ellis : >> - Benedict Giovanni ; not bad. + >> - Jane Sims. The ugliest mug of the set. -- > > That was a good pic, IMO. I think Ellis usually does great work. I also > liked his Mercy for Seth from KMW. Yeah, I think Orpheus kind of missed the point of Ellis' style there. He had a similar angle-icious bit of art for a CE Malk (6cap? 7cap? I forget), and I liked that one too. >> James Stowe : >> - Joe "Boot" Hill. Right out of a western goen ghoulish nightmare !! > + >> - Elihu is a weird and classy character, in a sick way. + > > Yeah, good stuff! See, I found both of them kind of cartoony. Hill in particular didn't project the kind of grim menace I expect from an Assamite. Elihu was just kind of cartoony, and not in a cool way. Well-executed art, yes, but a little 'meh' for their settings. I think I'd like his stuff on Malks or Nos. I miss Durwin Talon, the Becky Cloonan who did The Wildebeest (but not the one who did Jeremy MacNeil), Alan Rabinowitz, and Rebecca Guay (though, to be fair, we got plenty of RG in Cam Ed, and my glances through a few Kamigawa-block cards seem to indicate WotC is borrowing her at the moment). I wouldn't mind seeing some new pieces by Drew Tucker and Harold MacNeill either, for the old-skool value. pe

Gomi no Sensei wrote: > "Robert Goudie" <rob...@vtesinla.org> wrote in > news:1109176974.1...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: > >> James Stowe : > >> - Joe "Boot" Hill. Right out of a western goen ghoulish nightmare !! > > + > >> - Elihu is a weird and classy character, in a sick way. + > > > > Yeah, good stuff! > > See, I found both of them kind of cartoony. Stowe usually has a slight tinge of cartoony I think. > I miss Durwin Talon, the Becky Cloonan who did The Wildebeest (but not > the one who did Jeremy MacNeil), Alan Rabinowitz, and Rebecca Guay > (though, to be fair, we got plenty of RG in Cam Ed, and my glances > through a few Kamigawa-block cards seem to indicate WotC is borrowing her > at the moment). Could be a borrowing issue. I dunno. However, they do try to pick artists whose styles fit with the set themes. The blood and gore of my favorite guy, Clint Langley, aren't appropriate for a Cam set, for example, and RG may be good for a Cam set but may be a bad choice for a bloody Sabbat set and so on. Hey, I just realized we didn't get any (that I'm aware of) Leif Jones (another sometimes cartoony guy). > I wouldn't mind seeing some new pieces by Drew Tucker and Harold MacNeill > either, for the old-skool value. I always thought Harold's stuff was at least unique. I inquired about purchasing some originals at one point and he was asking >$1k for 'em. That's just silly. Unfortunately, I can never escape thinking about that price tag whenever I view his work now. :) -Robert

"Daneel" <dan...@eposta.hu> wrote in message news:opsmnewe...@news.chello.hu... > I'm curious when WW will start worrying about the salary I get. I mean, > they should do everything to help me get a higher salary, else my > financial status will not be sufficient to keep up playing the game as > new expansions come out. It should be their top priority to even give > me a lot of money, so that I can use some of that money to purchase > more VTES (and the rest to live a more luxurious life). > LOL! Spoken like a truer than reality Euro-socialist... Alas, WW lives in the swim-or-drown reality of American-brand Capitalism. > Hmm. > > Maybe it would be best to let WW worry about their side and me worry > about mine. I'll make sure my salary is OK and they make sure they > stay afloat and produce a quality product. Sounds like a fair deal to > me. If they flunk it, I draw the line; until then, I'm happily wasting > my hard-earned cash on their cards (and happily bitching about how > this-and-that is so-and-so). Very good! It seems regardless of whether the State takes you from cradle to grave, or shoves you into the deep end of the capitalist pig sty, it is a given that we'll all be complaining until Death pries those last seven library cards from our cold hands! :-) DZ AW

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 20:31:33 GMT, David Zopf <david...@snetx.net> wrote: > It seems regardless of whether the State takes you from cradle > to grave, or shoves you into the deep end of the capitalist pig sty, it > is a > given that we'll all be complaining until Death pries those last seven > library cards from our cold hands! Very good... Last seven library cards! You made me laugh... ;) -- Bye, Daneel

On 23 Feb 2005 11:15:01 -0800, "Robert Goudie" <rob...@vtesinla.org> scrawled: >> I wouldn't mind seeing some new pieces by Drew Tucker and Harold >MacNeill >> either, for the old-skool value. > >I always thought Harold's stuff was at least unique. I inquired about >purchasing some originals at one point and he was asking >$1k for 'em. >That's just silly. Unfortunately, I can never escape thinking about >that price tag whenever I view his work now. :) i think macneill is my favourite vtes artist. but, yeah, >$1k is silly. and some of his work is complete shite. but the good stuff is GREAT. [ quoted text not captured ]