Betrayer Deck of Ultimate Evil [variant]

From discussion with Noal and LSJ it appears i underestimated the Power of the Betrayer. Here's the true skinny, if i understand correctly: Betrayer cards go into play, but you do NOT place them on inactive vampires [my mistake, and sorry jol105 guys]. The victim now has to guess which of his/her vamps is coming back [with their tights in ribbons and lipstick all smudged] from visiting their sick aunt by the LONG route, the one that leads by Legbiter's crypt. This means that if you have two vamps out, and i recruit BOTH of them, i can do the following HORRID trick: Play a Betrayer. You guess that it is vamp [a] or [b] I say, o BAAAD Luck!!!! It is NOT vamp a [or b]!!! [so now you know it is b [or a], but you have to pay 2 pool in the end to get rid of that card, and it does you for a further 2 pool in the meantime]. Get the horrid, horrid picture??? Amn't i STINKY??????? And the same is true for EVERY Betrayer i play! Each one has to be burned individually! And your first guess is always wrong! So is your second, if i have 3 of your vamps recruited! so is your (n-1)th guess, in the general case where n is the number of your vamps i have recruited!! Anyway, i think this means that there may be a viable all-masters deck. Betrayer Parthenon Recruitment Direct Intervention SR Protected Resources Maybe a few Delaying tactics, Computer hacks. Crypt of all the vamps plus a surfeit of weenies [for opportunistic bleeds, if your prey manages to get rid of all his/her vamps - otherwise quite a good defence against Betrayer decks]. The thing that buggers up Betrayer decks is cross-table stuff, you see, especially votes. You need to be able to do something about votes. Various possibilities include: Vote yourself [basically have half a weenie vote deck stuck onto the Betrayer core]. This version is archived on James Coupe's site. Intercept everything voty [multiple Alephs and Isabella de Leons, Eagles' Sight and Enhanced Senses]. Or, as above, Delaying Tactics or DI on absolutely EVERYTHING voty. Delaying Tactic is probably better, i think, since you need the master phases for Betrayer PAIN. i'm thinking that the ultimate betrayer killer deck may be be with multiple nosferatu/FoS weenies. Kindred Intelligence and Summon the Serpent for a weenie horde sorta thing. -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

legb...@my-dejanews.com wrote: > From discussion with Noal and LSJ it appears i underestimated the Power of the > Betrayer. Here's the true skinny, if i understand correctly: > > Betrayer cards go into play, but you do NOT place them on inactive vampires > [my mistake, and sorry jol105 guys]. The victim now has to guess which of > his/her vamps is coming back [with their tights in ribbons and lipstick all > smudged] from visiting their sick aunt by the LONG route, the one that leads > by Legbiter's crypt. While not being placed "on" an uncontrolled vampire, the Betrayer still chooses an uncontrolled vampire, obviously. (See also: the Rack). Unless allowed by card text, you cannot change which vampire has been chosen. > This means that if you have two vamps out, and i recruit BOTH of them, i can > do the following HORRID trick: > > Play a Betrayer. > > You guess that it is vamp [a] or [b] I say, o BAAAD Luck!!!! It is NOT vamp a > [or b]!!! [so now you know it is b [or a], but you have to pay 2 pool in the > end to get rid of that card, and it does you for a further 2 pool in the > meantime]. > > Get the horrid, horrid picture??? Amn't i STINKY??????? Doesn't work. Your would have to have one of the vampires in your uncontrolled region (which you do). But that involves choosing to which vampire Betrayer's card text is referring. One of them allows you to play the Betrayer card. The other is just a card in your uncontrolled region. If you say "o BAAAD Luck!!!!" if they guess the vampire that had allowed you to play Betrayer, then you would be cheating. -- LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html [ quoted text not captured ]

legb...@my-dejanews.com wrote: > From discussion with Noal and LSJ it appears i underestimated the Power of the > Betrayer. Here's the true skinny, if i understand correctly: > > Betrayer cards go into play, but you do NOT place them on inactive vampires Correct. > This means that if you have two vamps out, and i recruit BOTH of them, i can > do the following HORRID trick: Keep in mind that Recruitment shows the vampires. > Play a Betrayer. At this point, you must select _one_ of the vampires that this Betrayer is on. Let's assume that you select vamp [a]. > You guess that it is vamp [a] or [b] I say, o BAAAD Luck!!!! It is NOT vamp a > [or b]!!! If they guess vamp [a] and you say, "o BAAAD Luck!!!!" you are cheating since they guessed corectly. While the Betrayer isn't played on a specific vampire, it does reference one. It is because of that nuance that people generally place the card on the uncontrolled vampire to keep track of which one it does reference. In other words, you have to keep track of which specific vampire each Betrayer played references. The assumption that their first guess is always wrong is false. Noal -- "The time for action is past! Now is the time for senseless bickering!" -Ashleigh Brilliant [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <7ffhcm$dj3$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] Well OF COURSE i would be cheating. But how would you, or anyone, know? The specific situation i have in mind is having TWO vampires in my uncontrolled, both of which my prey controls. i put the Betrayer in play. S/he guesses one of the two names, i assert it is the other. The only way to stop me cheating is to rule either that Betrayer IS played ON, or adjacent to, an uncontrolled vampire [to which that particular copy of the Betrayer then refers], or to rule that i have to secretly note the name of the betrayer. Quite honestly i would be happier if one of these two options was followed. Lead us not into temptation sorta thing, doncha know? [ quoted text not captured ]

legb...@my-dejanews.com wrote: > [naughty naughty, I snipped all the stuff about the not letting on which uncontrolled vampire was being pointed too] > > > Well OF COURSE i would be cheating. But how would you, or anyone, know? > > The specific situation i have in mind is having TWO vampires in my > uncontrolled, both of which my prey controls. i put the Betrayer in play. > S/he guesses one of the two names, i assert it is the other. > > The only way to stop me cheating is to rule either that Betrayer IS played ON, > or adjacent to, an uncontrolled vampire [to which that particular copy of the > Betrayer then refers], or to rule that i have to secretly note the name of the > betrayer. Quite honestly i would be happier if one of these two options was > followed. Lead us not into temptation sorta thing, doncha know? > Someone suggested that (although it is not an official rule) you should take a piece of paper and write the name of the Betraying vampire on it and place it under the Betrayer card. This way there is no squirreling. If I was playing in a game wherein Betrayer was played, I would ask for that kind of record keeping. But it is not mandated in the rules. Peace - Chris Chris Shorb, Rivers '84 Reunion Chairbot, by default Tammy Martin, Queen of the Eastern Marches, and damn good mom Alexander Shorb, little guy who could