Orginal Sabbat set is now up

I had mentioned a while back that I would be getting rid of my last set of VTES cards and I saved the best for last. I know some of the people in this group mentioned that they might be interested in the set so I thought I would mention that I listed it on ebay Sunday June 5th. Enjoy! Ebay item number is 5205667730 and my id is Mykbuckley to help you search, although searching for "original sabbat set" will probably get you there the quickest. Thanks! Mike

Mike wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Dude. This is not the place for sales posts. Really. Post on the VTES trade/sales list serve. Or alt.games.jyhad. Not here. Peter D Bakija pd...@lightlink.com http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6 "So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot, easily spilled liquids to naked people." -Brittni Meil

Is that the proper way to address people? Dude? I just some of the folks on here might be interested in a set of the old Sabbat. I am out of the game so I will never have the need to post on here again. I would think you would notice the "last set" comment so it's fairly obvious that I wouldn't have the need to post here again. Thanks for being so nice to me, I will have fond memories of the attitudes of the VTES community.

Mike a écrit : [ quoted text not captured ] Well, it has nothing to do with the VTES community. This newsgroup is not appropriate for posting commercial - business - sales of all sort. Period. Don't take it as a personnal offence. Do you think that the cop telling you not to throw your garbage by the car window is trying to make you feel bad of driving your car again ? May you imagine he, on the contrary, is preventing other people from receiving the garbage in the face ?

Mike wrote: > Is that the proper way to address people? Dude? Yes. Yes it is. > I just some of the folks on here might be interested in a set of the > old Sabbat. I am out of the game so I will never have the need to post > on here again. I would think you would notice the "last set" comment so > it's fairly obvious that I wouldn't have the need to post here again. > Thanks for being so nice to me, I will have fond memories of the > attitudes of the VTES community. It isn't a matter of being nice. The newsgroup has rules. One of the rules is no posts of sales and/or trade posts. You may or may not have known this. But you also didn't bother to find out. And you posted a sales/trade post. So I pointed out that this wasn't the place for it. 'Cause I'm a dick. And I like pointing out when people aren't following the rules. As it helps other people know what the rules are. [ quoted text not captured ]

Peter D Bakija May 29, 12:54 pm Wrote: Just checking in--there are still most of the KMW starter only vampires available from The Lasombra. Yeah, ok, Rabbat, Sewer Goddess is sold out, but she is clearly the chase starter only vampire that you want, like, 8 of to build a deck out of (so it is very likely all of her sold to, like, 1 or 2 people). But other than that, all of the other SO Vampires are still available. Just sticking my nose in where it does'nt belong BUT......Could someone not missread your prior post as commercial for Lasombra's card site? I mean not ME to be sure, but maybe ol' Mike there might have thought it was ok. Eh, whatever, he sure knows now though. ***JediMike***

JediMike wrote: >>Just sticking my nose in where it does'nt belong BUT>> Always a good idea. >>......Could someone not missread your prior post as commercial for Lasombra's card site? >> I'm sure they could if they wanted to and hadn't been paying attention. >> I mean not ME to be sure, but maybe ol' Mike there might have thought it was ok. Eh, whatever, he sure knows now though.>> Yeah, he might have. He also may have thought the lengthy thread from last week about how it was not ok to post trade and sales posts on the newsgroup was an indication that he shouldn't post sales and trade posts on the newsgroup. But I don't think either is the case here. In reference to my own post that you are snarkily bringing up, weeks and weeks ago, there was a lengthy discussion about how starter only vampires were completely unavailable for purchase online, and how that was bad for the player base. I was simply pointing out that, months after KMW came out, the starter only vampires are still available as singles online. Not 'cause I am particularly interested in people actually buying them, but 'cause I am interested in pointing out that they are available. -Peter

I felt this was the best group to post to as it has the highest concentration of players. You should appreciate any activity in this newsgroup, as far as I can tell, participation has been lacking of late. The sales/trading is a huge part of the game, so I'm not sure why it's such a big deal. I am not a store that posts once a day or even once a year. And I am certainly not a spammer that posts something fifty times in a day, everyday. I didn't post any huge card lists, prices or even a link to my ebay auction. I just mentioned there is an auction for a set of original sabbat, simple as that. And only because I had asked a while back about people being interested in buying a set and I had lots of responses here, did I decide to actually mention it to the people in this group in the first place.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Note all the common spammer tactics used by "Mike", a person who I've never seen here before. Mike wrote: | I felt this was the best group to post to as it has the highest | concentration of players. - -- EVADING THE ISSUE; note none of Peter's message was quoted, nor did "Mike" attempt to address the inappropriateness of sales posts in this group. - -- MIS-STATING FACTS; the highest concentration of players who are interested in buying cards are on the "sale" sites, as anyone who spent a moment's thought and/or research would discover. However, the "sale" sites also tend to contain mostly experienced buyers... hmmm... | You should appreciate any activity in this newsgroup, as far as I can | tell, participation has been lacking of late. The sales/trading is a - -- DISTRACTION; conduct false ad hominem attacks against the population of a quite-active newsgroup in order to draw attention away from his own spam. | huge part of the game, so I'm not sure why it's such a big deal. I am - -- MINIMIZATION; try to make light of the issue in an attempt to convince everyone that it's not such a big deal, therefore he's not THAT bad a person, right? | not a store that posts once a day or even once a year. And I am | certainly not a spammer that posts something fifty times in a day, - -- STRAWMAN; hold up examples of fictional "worse" posters and vilify the examples, even though none such exist on this group. | everyday. I didn't post any huge card lists, prices or even a link to | my ebay auction. I just mentioned there is an auction for a set of - -- DISTRACTION; he didn't post an HTML link because those can be auto-filtered by Bayesian (and other) spam catchers if the recipient wishes. What he posted was near-identical: "Ebay item number is [censored to avoid helping spammer]" ... There's not much difference between clicking once and copy-n-pasting the item #. Also revisited his STRAWMAN by mentioning all the evils he "could" have done. | original sabbat, simple as that. And only because I had asked a while | back about people being interested in buying a set and I had lots of | responses here, did I decide to actually mention it to the people in | this group in the first place. - -- The ALREADY OPTED-IN maneuver; somewhere in your spam, claim that people have somehow granted you the right to send them the spam, whether or not they actually have done so. Given the typical response to sales posts in this group, I think we can all draw our own conclusions about the truth of "Mike"'s statement. Remember folks; never buy from spammers, especially unknown ones. It simply encourages people to spam in the first place... and it's also the best way to get scammed, if the spammer happens to be of that category. - -- Derek insert clever quotation here -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32) iD8DBQFCpFc1tQZlu3o7QpERAiFCAJ0TB6BmuTW7kbi1jf2bwcWr0BKI2wCgnuFA iSbhogqXlxxAR3ZScpL5048= =pHSW -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Mike wrote: > felt this was the best group to post to as it has the highest concentration of players. Aw dude. Now this is just turning into a comedy routine. Yes. This does have the highest concentration of players. Which is why it is the perfect place to make sales posts. And which is exactly why they aren't allowed. 'Cause if they were, this place would likely be nothing *but* sales posts. >You should appreciate any activity in this newsgroup, as far as I can >tell, participation has been lacking of late. Based on what, exactly? Clearly, you don't pay attention to this newsgroup that well, as otherwise you'd know that sales and trade posts aren't allowed. This newsgroup has a good deal of regular, on topic traffic. 'Cause the newsgroup is kept on topic. And the newsgroup is not filled with sales posts. Really. Don't show up here, break the rules, and then be like "But it was *good* that I broke the rules..." It's uncouth. >The sales/trading is a huge part of the game, Yes. Yes it is. Which is why there are multiple trading websites, a trade/sales list serve, and going on to e-bay and searching for "VTES", all of which specifically exist to facilitate sales and trading. This newsgroup, however, does not. As much as you think it should. >so I'm not sure why it's such a big deal. It isn't a big deal. It just isn't allowed. 'Cause if it is, the newsgroup likely becomes a cesspool of trade/sales posts, and the ability to actually carry on a conversation about things that aren't sales and trading becomes greatly compromised. >I am not a store that posts once a day or even once a year. Doesn't really matter who you are. >And I am certainly not a spammer that posts something fifty times in a day, >everyday. I didn't post any huge card lists, prices or even a link to >my ebay auction. I just mentioned there is an auction for a set of >original sabbat, simple as that. And also as simple as that--it isn't allowed on this group. It isn't a big deal. No one is going to fire bomb your house or anything. Really. Just don't post sales/trade posts here. As it isn't the appropriate place. There are appropriate places. This just isn't one of them. -Peter

I checked the google stats and it shows that the month of May 2005 was the lowest since back in 2001. Seems like the activity was down, but Google could have been wrong I suppose. I will most definitely lose money on this deal as I have around $300 into this set, so it isn't profit motivated. I just thought someone would enjoy owning this more than me. People who are going to post sales aren't going to research whether it is ok or not. So, isn't this just a fruitless effort? You keep telling me not to post sale/trade posts here. I already explained that this set is my last, so I obviously won't be posting here in that manner again. I obviously have no regard for the rules of this group and I guess I can apologize for that but I can't change the way I feel.

Mike wrote: > checked the google stats and it shows >that the month of May 2005 was >the lowest since back in 2001. Seems like >the activity was down, but >Google could have been wrong I suppose. You went and checked goole stats before you posted, thinking you were somehow doing us a favor? Why, instead, did you not just go and check the group FAQ? >I will most definitely lose money on this >deal as I have around $300 >into this set, so it isn't profit motivated. I >just thought someone >would enjoy owning this more than me. That is very noble of you. It still doesn't make it ok. >People who are going to post sales aren't >going to research whether it >is ok or not. So, isn't this just a fruitless >effort? It is never a fruitless effort to make sure folks know the rules. You might not know the rules. You might not care about the rules. But perhaps somone who might care might see this, and learn. >You keep telling me not to post sale/trade >posts here. I already >explained that this set is my last, so I >obviously won't be posting >here in that manner again. That isn't obvious at all. Who knows what you have or what your motives are. All that is really relevant is that sales and trade posts are not appropriate for this forum. By pointing this out, you are now aware, and others are now aware. >I obviously have no regard for the rules of >this group and I guess I >can apologize for that but I can't change >the way I feel. The only thing anyone is asking you to do is not post trade/sales posts on this group. That is all. -Peter

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Note more spammer tactics. Mike wrote: | I checked the google stats and it shows that the month of May 2005 was | the lowest since back in 2001. Seems like the activity was down, but | Google could have been wrong I suppose. SELECTIVE FACTS: Even if the "google stats" are correct, a single month taken alone proves little; it's spring, people go outside, etc. If March, April, AND May were all down, that would be more of an accurate indicator. However, the real flaw in this is seen below... | I will most definitely lose money on this deal as I have around $300 | into this set, so it isn't profit motivated. I just thought someone | would enjoy owning this more than me. FALSE ALTRUISM: "I'm just doing this to help others!" My ass. | People who are going to post sales aren't going to research whether it | is ok or not. So, isn't this just a fruitless effort? PRECONCEIVED NOTION: "It's useless anyway, why try?" Demonstrably the wrong attitude to take, but one a spammer would really like to see occur... everyone just casually ignoring it. ...and HYPOCRISY: "People posting sales aren't going to research" ... yet he went out and looked at Google Stats? That looks like some pretty key research to me. Of course, people ARE going to do the research as to where their product will sell the best -- and that research would indicate "the trade/sales sites", where there are tons of potential buyers. Not a USENET group, which has tons of potential readers. | You keep telling me not to post sale/trade posts here. I already | explained that this set is my last, so I obviously won't be posting | here in that manner again. EX POST FACTO EXCUSE: "I can't do it again, so just excuse this one time." Of course, we all know how easy it is to say you don't have any more cards, and then suddenly "find" some in the attic. | I obviously have no regard for the rules of this group and I guess I | can apologize for that but I can't change the way I feel. FALSE APOLOGY: Even though the spammer sneaks the words "I apologize" in, you can tell that he isn't really sorry, he just doesn't want to take the heat and hopes that people will sweep it under the rug and give him their money. As always.. if you buy from a spammer, you help perpetuate the practice. ~ Force these guys to put stuff where it belongs -- IGNORE him. Someone will buy his set anyway (he's obviously advertised in more places than just here), but because of the nature of the eBay model, fewer people bidding will effectively still lower his profit. - -- Derek insert clever quotation here -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32) iD8DBQFCpHlYtQZlu3o7QpERAhdkAJ4hPzVeVculkObeGYv5oRJT/cSCmwCgpSPD sRKe73aLaaPVf93Kvy6bKSg= =rYkh -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

pd...@lightlink.com a écrit : > Mike wrote: > >>felt this was the best group to post to as it has the highest > > concentration of players. > > Aw dude. Now this is just turning into a comedy routine. > > Yes. This does have the highest concentration of players. Which is why > it is the perfect place to make sales posts. And which is exactly why > they aren't allowed. 'Cause if they were, this place would likely be > nothing *but* sales posts. You are going pessimistic here. Mike was just selling stuff, and its something which may be valuable in a player's eye (a much sougth after sabbat set, for instance). I understand everyone here is a little nervous, especially after the Ferenci incident. But i know Mike and there is no malignity in his words here. He's just astonished by the level of the epidemic reaction you guys have. He maybe not aware about the previous "incidents" that degenerated in a flame thread up there. Understand that he's a player, and much the critics i read here he does not deserve. If Peter Bakija or Derek Ray decide to stop the game at some point, they may post their decision (alongside with card sale) in this newsgroup, and we would scold them about the faq, for the sake of it but still, not like this. >>so I'm not sure why it's such a big deal. > > It isn't a big deal. It just isn't allowed. 'Cause if it is, the > newsgroup likely becomes a cesspool of trade/sales posts, and the > ability to actually carry on a conversation about things that aren't > sales and trading becomes greatly compromised. I'm pretty sure this will not happen anyway. >>I am not a store that posts once a day or even once a year. > > > Doesn't really matter who you are. In that case, it matters. he's an old timer. plus he sells a collectible item, not a bunch of nosferatu putrescence hoping that someone here would buy crappy stuff because the word jyhad is printed on it.

Redya wrote: >You are going pessimistic here. Nope. Just being realistic. >Mike was just selling stuff, and its something which may be valuable in >a player's eye (a much sougth after sabbat set, for instance). Sure. And there are plenty of other places to announce such things. >I understand everyone here is a little nervous, especially after the >Ferenci incident. Nervous? No one is nervous. I'm just pointing out that sales and trade posts are not appropriate for this forum. 'Cause they aren't. >But i know Mike and there is no malignity in his words here. Who is doing it is irrelevant. When The Lasombra did the same thing, we said "Hey--don't do that" too. >He's just astonished by the level of the epidemic reaction you guys have. Indicating even more that he hasn't been paying attention. >He maybe not aware about the previous "incidents" that degenerated in a >flame thread up there. He is now. >Understand that he's a player, and much the critics i read here he does >not deserve. He broke the rules. I pointed out that he was breaking the rules. It could have stopped there. But it didn't. He came back to defend how he thought it was ok that he was breaking the rules. And so here we are. >If Peter Bakija or Derek Ray decide to stop the game at some point, they >may post their decision (alongside with card sale) in this newsgroup, >and we would scold them about the faq, for the sake of it but still, not >like this. When I post a sales/trade post on the newsgroup, I expect to be assailed just like this. Especially if I come back and explain how I think it is ok that I do it. >I'm pretty sure this will not happen anyway. You can be sure all you want. The newsgroup charter disagrees with you. So do I. >In that case, it matters. >he's an old timer. >plus he sells a collectible item, not a bunch of nosferatu putrescence >hoping that someone here would buy crappy stuff because the word jyhad >is printed on it. And again, this is irrelevant. This group is not the place for sales/trade posts. He posted a sales/trade post. There ya go. -Peter

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 reyda wrote: | But i know Mike and there is no malignity in his words here. | He's just astonished by the level of the epidemic reaction you guys have. Well, he's pretty much admitted openly he doesn't care about the newsgroup or the rules thereof, he thinks this newsgroup is dead anyway, and he just wants to sell his cards. That's fine. But by the same token, I don't care about Mike's feelings, because he can't be bothered to even TRY. I figure he and I are dead even, there. | He maybe not aware about the previous "incidents" that degenerated in a | flame thread up there. Obviously he never bothers to read the group, so of course he wouldn't be aware. I don't personally take kindly to people who are only posting here because they want to sell something. It strikes me as particularly mercenary and spammy; the sort of impersonal crud disguised as "caring" that infests our world today. So I call it out for what it is; it's sales-spam. It's not the worst I've ever seen, no. But it is what it is. | Understand that he's a player, and much the critics i read here he does | not deserve. | If Peter Bakija or Derek Ray decide to stop the game at some point, they | may post their decision (alongside with card sale) in this newsgroup, No, I wouldn't. =) I'm not a big fan of big tear-jerker "ONE LAST PILE OF ATTENTION" farewells. (plus, I'd probably just give my cards away, honestly) - -- Derek insert clever quotation here -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32) iD8DBQFCpIOHtQZlu3o7QpERAuC9AKCHka7MXaOGIaGXEbgpLC4q56yjlACg8wmJ tkI6opE1wLbIG2r8xdMJ5s8= =mE9P -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

FALSE ALTRUISM: "I'm just doing this to help others!" My ass. It's actually true that I will lose money. Didn't say it will help anyone, just thought they would enjoy it more than me. SELECTIVE FACTS: Even if the "google stats" are correct, a single month taken alone proves little; it's spring, people go outside, etc. If March, April, AND May were all down, that would be more of an accurate No, you are wrong again there. The posts from 2002 to 2003 are down 7% and then from 2003 to 2004 another 7% down in posts. Posts are down about 1,300 this year from last(from Jan-May). Derek, didn't I buy some of the cards to complete my set from you? Can't remember, it's been so long since I have bought. I am sure many people in this group contributed to the completetion of this set. Give yourselves a pat on tha back if you sold cards to me over the years! I don't think I fit any official definition of spammer, if there is one, but whatever you say Derek. Anyone who wants to check my ebay feedback rating should feel pretty comfortable knowing I am not a scammer in any way, shape or form.

> > Aw dude. Now this is just turning into a comedy routine. > Thank god! If we have to have these posts, we might as well make it entertaining. Look Mike, PLEASE just don't post sale or trade articles, because it is not appropriate. In the nicest way this is all I'm trying to say. ***JediMike***

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Mike wrote: | FALSE ALTRUISM: "I'm just doing this to help others!" My ass. | | It's actually true that I will lose money. Didn't say it will help | anyone, just thought they would enjoy it more than me. It is not actually true... YET. You could easily make more than $300 (your investment claim) via the auction. Your only means of doing so is to spread the word as far and wide as you possibly can; hence the spam. | SELECTIVE FACTS: Even if the "google stats" are correct, a single | month | taken alone proves little; it's spring, people go outside, etc. If | March, April, AND May were all down, that would be more of an accurate | | No, you are wrong again there. The posts from 2002 to 2003 are down 7% No, I am absolutely correct in my statement that a single month proves little. Note how the spammer begins ad hominem attacks against issues that are irrelevant to his own spamming activity, in order to distract from the issue. | and then from 2003 to 2004 another 7% down in posts. Posts are down | about 1,300 this year from last(from Jan-May). That's it? And from this, you were able to determine: "You should appreciate any activity in this newsgroup"?? That's an awfully blanket statement to make for only a 7% drop. I'd expect that people who have experienced a 75% drop might be grateful for any activity -- but just 7%? Not even close, and more indicative of your offhand attitude towards your prospective customers. It looks as though you could care less about any of the population here, except as far as their wallet's concerned. Oh boy, that's the kind of guy *I* want to buy stuff from... NOT. | Derek, didn't I buy some of the cards to complete my set from you? You did not, actually. I do not, and never have, sold any cards via the Internet. I have made exactly one purchase, from a person I already knew and had met in-person in North Carolina (hi Jordan). Note more ad hominem distractions and falsifications coming from the spammer. He knows he's never purchased cards from me; he's simply trying to draw attention away from his own spam. | Can't remember, it's been so long since I have bought. I am sure many | people in this group contributed to the completetion of this set. Give | yourselves a pat on tha back if you sold cards to me over the years! More "You deserved this! You helped me!" in an attempt to justify the spam. | I don't think I fit any official definition of spammer, if there is I'm sure all spammers would say the same thing. | one, but whatever you say Derek. Anyone who wants to check my ebay | feedback rating should feel pretty comfortable knowing I am not a | scammer in any way, shape or form. Perhaps you're not a scammer, but many spammers are. In any case, it still is worth remembering for everyone else: BUYING FROM SPAMMERS ENCOURAGES THE SPAM. DO YOUR PART. DON'T BUY FROM SPAMMED LINKS. - -- Derek insert clever quotation here -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32) iD8DBQFCpImItQZlu3o7QpERAs/8AKChS95RwVgMM5/ODxpDCsZx0MBiyQCfR9Cq A4O4re4me7jTziD1cfO+7+E= =MOJM -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

"Look Mike, PLEASE just don't post sale or trade articles, because it is not appropriate. In the nicest way this is all I'm trying to say. " Now see, that's all it needed. Well put. I appreciate this kind of courtesy and it goes a long way opposed to irritating me. If I am irritated, I am less likely to respond positively, hence I will post again (although I don't have any more cards to sell, sniff). However, when told in this fashion, I will say, "I don't want to ruffle any of these nice peeps feathers, so I will post elsewhere." Farewell cruel world of darkness!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Mike wrote: | "Look Mike, PLEASE just don't post sale or trade articles, because it | is | not appropriate. In the nicest way this is all I'm trying to say. " | | Now see, that's all it needed. Well put. I appreciate this kind of | courtesy and it goes a long way opposed to irritating me. If I am And that's all that Peter's original post was. "Dude. This is not the place for sales posts. Really. Post on the VTES trade/sales list serve. Or alt.games.jyhad. Not here." I call LIAR on you, Mike. What are you trying to hide with all this smoke and mirrors? | irritated, I am less likely to respond positively, hence I will post | again (although I don't have any more cards to sell, sniff). However, Dude, you'd post again no matter what. Don't try to pass off any of that "If I had been asked nicely, I wouldn't do it again" crap. It's obvious you couldn't care less. | when told in this fashion, I will say, "I don't want to ruffle any of | these nice peeps feathers, so I will post elsewhere." Good riddance. Door, ass, way out, etc.; you know the drill. - -- Derek insert clever quotation here -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32) iD8DBQFCpI9ktQZlu3o7QpERAtu2AJ9pmF4IDO+p9QVFpLeA1fOt1zigagCgmwKK jSJD4Y0o2RpxrzKxNLzDSpo= =E3Ph -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

All is good, but this guy has been given more bits than he's worth and gotten the thread pushed to the top 20 odd times now. Jeff

"I call LIAR on you, Mike. What are you trying to hide with all this smoke and mirrors? " I believe the original post was a little more aggitating than necessary for my likes. You can't call someone a liar based on my opinion of what I consider to be irritating. Get real. "Dude, you'd post again no matter what. Don't try to pass off any of that "If I had been asked nicely, I wouldn't do it again" crap. It's obvious you couldn't care less. " I was ready to walk away and not post again, so you come back and try to attack me some more? You don't know me, so you can't surmise what I would or wouldn't do anyway. Let it go and get on with your life.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Mike wrote: | "I call LIAR on you, Mike. What are you trying to hide with all this | smoke and mirrors? " | | I believe the original post was a little more aggitating than necessary | for my likes. You can't call someone a liar based on my opinion of what | I consider to be irritating. Get real. I am being real. You, on the other hand, seem determined to conceal something. What is it, I wonder? (although if you honestly found that original post irritating, you need to pull the bowling ball out of your ass; it's clearly causing you some discomfort) | "Dude, you'd post again no matter what. Don't try to pass off any of | that "If I had been asked nicely, I wouldn't do it again" crap. It's | obvious you couldn't care less. " | | I was ready to walk away and not post again, so you come back and try | to attack me some more? You don't know me, so you can't surmise what I | would or wouldn't do anyway. Let it go and get on with your life. But I thought you claimed I DID know you? Here we go again, more obfuscation. All I figure is, every time you post I get to show everyone what you're REALLY like... and how all your original claims were just subterfuge to cover up your spam and make excuses for it. Remember, readers: Buying from spammers encourages the spammer. Look at Mike's posts (including this one); do you really think he was just trying to be nice and altruistic, or was it all about the $$? Let it go yourself, pot; don't just call the kettle black, eh? - -- Derek insert clever quotation here -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32) iD8DBQFCpKI9tQZlu3o7QpERApp8AKCacRiCwftI3wrDKpU8+I5NOiae1gCdHB3b 9N0yAjgNtTdpKBVQTneRvG4= =QqRV -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

"reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:42a47eaa$0$24300$79c1...@nan-newsreader-05.noos.net... > pd...@lightlink.com a écrit : >> Yes. This does have the highest concentration of players. Which is why >> it is the perfect place to make sales posts. And which is exactly why >> they aren't allowed. 'Cause if they were, this place would likely be >> nothing *but* sales posts. > > You are going pessimistic here. > Mike was just selling stuff, and its something which may be valuable in a player's eye (a much sougth after sabbat set, for > instance). > > I understand everyone here is a little nervous, especially after the Ferenci incident. > > But i know Mike and there is no malignity in his words here. > He's just astonished by the level of the epidemic reaction you guys have. There's some reasons for that which can be predicted if one would take the time to use a little common sense. You also have to understand that each newsgroup has a charter and that charter defines the expectation readers have of poster topicality. That may be a thing which frequently causes astonishment in guys like Mike and people should take it into account when they respond to such an incident. Still, once Mike knows that it exists, he should be able to predict the rest of the reaction. Peter is right: the fact that the newsgroup contains a concentration of players is precisely the point. Yes, such an audience would obviously have more in a post like that ON AVERAGE than, say, a random audience. But what pisses people off is that it's a CAPTIVE audience for commercial posters. The charter is how a newsgroup defines whether it does or does not expect to tolerate commerical postings and it should be consulted before making one. In fact, if nothing is said in the newsgroup charter, age-old Usenet tradition states that commercial posts are off-topic for a given newsgroup. Usenet newsgroups were originally invented and intended for intellectual discussion, not to facilitate buyers and sellers finding each other. Obviously, they can be used for that purpose as well but the character of such newsgroup traffic is completely different. Either way, upon learning the expectation, there needs to be no further debate about it. Certainly the attitude that, "I'm gonna do it and I don't care what anyone says." will tend to provoke others. This is a surprise? How? > He maybe not aware about the previous "incidents" that degenerated in a flame thread up there. He didn't have to be. The previously incident is not directly germaine to why Mike is now getting flamed. See above. > Understand that he's a player, and much the critics i read here he does not deserve. I think many people have good and bad attitudes about many different aspects of their lives. You might think me a total jerk about one thing (clearing out an early Pentex Subversion my predator stuck on my grand-predator, for instance ;-) ) yet a pretty reasonable guy where most other things are concerned. I imagine Mike falls into that category and I'm glad to hear it. The subject of THIS discussion, however, is his attitude about sales posts. Fred

jeff...@pacbell.net wrote: > All is good, but this guy has been given more bits than he's worth and > gotten the thread pushed to the top 20 odd times now. Ahh, see--more reason to get a good newsreader program! There is no thread bumping! Either the thread exists or doesn't on the page, and if you look at the basic page with colapsed threads, you don't even see the 30 extra posts in a given thread, unless, ya know, you want to. [ quoted text not captured ]

not having any idea what the previous "situation" described was all about, I would not dare to comment on that. However. The entire preceding conversation is one of the most snot level ones I've ever had the misfortune of coming across. From the amount of text generated between the two protagonists, and the fact that this thread has now hit top 20 more than once, could it not be possible that both parties were involved in the sale, and using a highly acrimonios conversation to boost attention levels to this thread? Now while I know that very likely my theory above is wholly incorrect, I still fell the need to say something real simple to the two baning away at each other like a pair of old boxers: GROW UP! Discuss things politely, but try not to descend into a mudslinging competition. If he truly is a spammer, then neotrace his IP, and babywhale his box. If he's not, CHILL! Please? :)

<sand...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1118100558.2...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... > From the amount of text generated > between the two protagonists, and the fact that this thread has now hit > top 20 more than once, could it not be possible that both parties were > involved in the sale, and using a highly acrimonios conversation to > boost attention levels to this thread? No, it's not. You should probably hang around in a newsgroup for a while before making a wild-assed guesses like that. Had you, you'd know who Peter is. > Now while I know that very likely my theory above is wholly incorrect, Then why post it? As an attention-grabbing device for a piece of writing, frankly, it doesn't work. But... > I still fell the need to say something real simple to the two baning > away at each other like a pair of old boxers: GROW UP! ...this is more what I expected: a hidden agenda involving an attempt to equate both sides of the issue. Not all the posts criticising Mike were completely eloquent and diplomatic but the issue does not reduce down to, "Both sides should grow up." > Discuss things politely, but try not to descend into a mudslinging > competition. If he truly is a spammer, then neotrace his IP, and > babywhale his box. If he's not, CHILL! Please? I think you're completely missing the point. The issue isn't the sales post at this point. As is often the situation in cases like this, the issue that extended the thread out all haywire like this is the original poster taking offense at being chastised and reacting in a loud and confrontational way and the predictable clusterfuck unfolded from there. So please take the right lesson from it. Fred

Derek Ray a écrit : > | He maybe not aware about the previous "incidents" that degenerated in a > | flame thread up there. > > Obviously he never bothers to read the group, so of course he wouldn't > be aware. on his defense i must say i don't read all the threads, some are not interesting or too "private joke-esque" for me to stop on them. simple : when i see Frederick the weak in the title, i skip :) > I don't personally take kindly to people who are only posting here > because they want to sell something. It strikes me as particularly > mercenary and spammy; the sort of impersonal crud disguised as "caring" > that infests our world today. So I call it out for what it is; it's > sales-spam. It's not the worst I've ever seen, no. But it is what it is. you are right on this one, i must admit. > | Understand that he's a player, and much the critics i read here he does > | not deserve. > | If Peter Bakija or Derek Ray decide to stop the game at some point, they > | may post their decision (alongside with card sale) in this newsgroup, > > No, I wouldn't. =) I'm not a big fan of big tear-jerker "ONE LAST PILE > OF ATTENTION" farewells. Come on ! Every methuselah is an attention whore ;) > (plus, I'd probably just give my cards away, honestly) I'm still hesitating on this, you know. But i would frustrate some people and create jealousy. You know, the "why did reyda give his cards to xxx and not me ? " reaction. Yes, i may well be that nevrosed :)

Frederick Scott a écrit : > I think many people have good and bad attitudes about many different aspects > of their lives. You might think me a total jerk about one thing (clearing > out an early Pentex Subversion my predator stuck on my grand-predator, for > instance ;-) ) excellent reference ! this action just costed me a net 5 pool but i knew that since i helped Paul to build his deck the previous day ;) don't worry, you made choice and that's it, that game was over and forgotten the minute i began a new game :)

Fred, maybe you misunderstand my intention with the first part of the post. It was not to criticise any single person, but to try and highlight how ridculously out-of-proportion the thread had gotten. Do you honestly think that getting into a lengthy argument with a spammer, giving them greater free public exposure is helping? As Peter quite rightly said, the best way to kill spammers, is to ignore them(short of baby-whale). all i was trying to point out is that maybe he should have paid attention to the valuable advice he handed out?...

sand...@gmail.com wrote: > not having any idea what the previous "situation" described was all > about, I would not dare to comment on that. Being as I'm involved in the discussion and I don't know what a previous "situation" is either, you got me. It might be a reference to a similar thread from last week, but who knows? > However. The entire > preceding conversation is one of the most snot level ones I've ever had > the misfortune of coming across. You must be new to usenet? > From the amount of text generated > between the two protagonists, and the fact that this thread has now hit > top 20 more than once, Yeah, see, again, with a nice newsreader program, this isn't an issue. > could it not be possible that both parties were > involved in the sale, and using a highly acrimonios conversation to > boost attention levels to this thread? Not even remotely. I'm not quite sure who you are considering as the two main protagonists are--clearly Mike is one. Derek or myself is likely the other. Mike is new. Derek and I are always here. Neither of us are involved in any such deal. > Now while I know that very likely my theory above is wholly incorrect, > I still fell the need to say something real simple to the two baning > away at each other like a pair of old boxers: GROW UP! Uh, dude? This is usenet. This is how the place works. Jumping into the middle of a conversation and telling folks to grow up (especially in all caps...) is likely just to get you flamed as well. I'm not saying I'll be doing any flaming, but, ya know, just pointing it out. > Discuss things politely, but try not to descend into a mudslinging > competition. Uh, yeah. No one ever thought of that before... [ quoted text not captured ]

sand...@gmail.com wrote: > Fred, maybe you misunderstand my intention with the first part of the > post. It was not to criticise any single person, but to try and > highlight how ridculously out-of-proportion the thread had gotten. We are all well aware of how ridiculously out of proportion the thread has gotten. But again, that is how things work in these situations. The thread could have gone like this: Post A: "I'm selling stuff!' Post B: "Don't do that." Post C: "Oh. Ok." And that would have been the end of it. But it didn't. And here we are. As that is how usenet works. And trying to circumvent how usenet works by virtue of saying "Hey! Cut that out!", especially when one is a up till now uninterested party, never works. Really. >Do > you honestly think that getting into a lengthy argument with a spammer, > giving them greater free public exposure is helping? Helping what? Helping him decide not to post more sales posts to avoid the hassle? Maybe. Helping other people decide not to make sales posts? Probably. > As Peter quite > rightly said, the best way to kill spammers, is to ignore them(short of > baby-whale). Yeah, that was Derek. I was just saying that this is an inappropriate place for sales and trade posts. 'Cause it is. > all i was trying to point out is that maybe he should have > paid attention to the valuable advice he handed out?... No one is ever surprised by the irony of their own situation. Not Derek. Not me. No one. [ quoted text not captured ]

" Mike is new" Not totally new, the post below is from me back in my college days. Changed email when I left campus (May 2000). I didn't come back on here until early 2003, with this email address. Of course, you couldn't possibly have known that. Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad From: "Cult Fiction Comics" <bh90...@semovm.semo.edu> - Find messages by this author Date: 1999/10/29 Subject: Tomb of Ramses Question Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse I quit playing a long time ago and just started back up so what exactly does Tomb of Ramses do now? From the new card text it looks like it just gets a vampire out for half price and not the 2 for 1 like we used to use(abuse) it for. Mike

"Mike" <mykbu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1118073091....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > I obviously have no regard for the rules of this group and I guess I > can apologize for that but I can't change the way I feel. > Well if you have no regard for the rules of the group, I sure as hell have no regard for you. Its a dog eat dog world out there and if you want help, pissing people off is the wrong way to going about it. Raille

Mike wrote: >Not totally new, the post below is from me back in my college days. >Changed email when I left campus (May 2000). I didn't come back on here >until early 2003, with this email address. Of course, you couldn't >possibly have known that. Huh. The bh90 e-mail looks vaguely familiar. What do ya know? It kind of cracks me up, however, that you are willing to do so much research for this particular discussion, but somehow either never read the newsgroup FAQ (posted aproximately monthly) or, ya know, did and didn't care (about, ya know, the "don't post sales and trade posts here" part). -Peter

"willing to do so much research " Didn't take but a second to type in my old email address and grab an earlier post. When in Google, when you select a newsgroup you can hit "about this newsgroup" and it will give you all kinds of stats like top poster of all time, top poster of the month and monthly posting stats. Mike

Mike wrote: >Didn't take but a second to type in my old email address and grab an >earlier post. Sure. I wouldn't have taken any more effort to find the FAQ... -Peter

I wrote: >Sure. I wouldn't have taken any more effort to find the FAQ... Clearly, that should have been: "Sure. *It* wouldn't..." Oh, the typos. -Peter

<sand...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1118107512.2...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > Do you honestly think that getting into a lengthy argument with a spammer, > giving them greater free public exposure is helping? In Mike's place, quite possibly. Though I admit getting over-critical can be counter-productive. I'm regretting my reference to his responses as "loud and confontrontational here". Actually, they weren't that provocotive, all things considered. But the reason you argue with someone making those kinds of responses is not just to bring him into the fold (which you may or may not succeed at doing) but to also reinforce expectations for any other newer readers who may be seeing this issue dealt with for the first time. Fred

If you will recall, you replied to one of my posts in August 2004 with a copy of the FAQ. No, I did not read the whole thing. In all actuality I have made about four sale/trade posts within the last year. Out of those four, I received two notices that it was not allowed. I figure four per year is acceptable, and these are under my guidelines of acceptable, obviously not yours. I believe that the Usenet has a fine self-governing system and I self-govern myself to not contribute to the "cesspool" of repeated and otherwise ignored posts. I don't like to see the same post day after day and off-topic stuff like "how to make my penis longer while consolidating my bills and watching someones skank-cam", more than anyone else. I didn't think my post fell into that camp but I can see some people are of a different opinion. While I know it would be cumbersome for you to track who posts what and how often but wouldn't it be nice to keep ALL the Jyhad/VTES activity under one hood? You could regulate them to only so many posts per a given time period. Now, maybe someone who posts sales once every 3 months should be placing a reasonable amount of productive posts, as I have not of late, I would be guilty on that charge. However, guys like The Lasombra contribute much to the VTES community and should be offered some concessions as someone had mentioned. Maybe if these threads are popping up too often (and I honestly didn't see the "previous" incident), the FAQ needs to be revisited. There is no real deterrence other than a collective boycott and/or some berating. I at least came back to see if I had any replies, whereas a real spammer would never look back and hence the reply and FAQ are worthless in those instances. So you are virtually responding only to people who read here. Just some thoughts.

Mike wrote: > wouldn't it be nice to keep ALL the Jyhad/VTES activity > under one hood? If you wish to change the newsgroup charter, there are established procedures for doing so. -- LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply) Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"Mike" <mykbu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1118178513.1...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > I figure > four per year is acceptable, and these are under my guidelines of > acceptable, obviously not yours. The point is, they are not acceptable under the newsgroup charter. > I believe that the Usenet has a fine self-governing system It does: it's called, "Observing the charter so you don't cause a bunch of flame wars." If you don't do that, you cause long, annoying flame wars when people bicker about *THEIR* notion of "acceptable" vs. "yours". Somewhere you seem to have arrived at the conclusion that "self- governing" refers to each poster being the sole authority of what is acceptable about their own postings. The trouble with that conclusion is that other people have to wade through the stuff you post (no, filters and hitting the next key don't fix this problem beyond a certain point). Since each poster has a different opinion of what they'd like to post and read on a group, your system would shift the flow of traffic from being what *MOST* people would want to see - as expressed in the charter - to whatever the most lenient person would want to see. That system doesn't work. And it's not how Usenet works in general. > While I know it would be cumbersome for you to track who posts what and > how often but wouldn't it be nice to keep ALL the Jyhad/VTES activity > under one hood? It's debatable. Some people think so. Others would rather see only discussion and NOT sales posts. The question was resolved when the newsgroup charter was written and approved. If you think the wrong decision was made, your responsibility is to go find out how to alter a charter and attempt to do so. Not to simply declare your right to ignore it. Fred

Mike wrote: > Out of > those four, I received two notices that it was not allowed. I figure > four per year is acceptable, and these are under my guidelines of > acceptable, obviously not yours. I only sabotage four E-bay auctions a year by creating a fake account, bidding it up the wazoo with a last-hour bot and then scramming. I figure four times a year is acceptable, under my guidelines of acceptable, obviously not yours. > There is no real > deterrence other than a collective boycott and/or some berating. Good luck selling them cards.

"only sabotage four E-bay auctions a year by creating a fake account, bidding it up the wazoo with a last-hour bot and then scramming. I figure four times a year is acceptable, under my guidelines of acceptable, obviously not yours. " What you are talking about is fraud and that is actually punishable by law. Those are the government guidelines. If you are implying I do such acts, I would think again. "Good luck selling them cards. " Thanks

OK I take it all back. Anarchist behaviour is all well and fine, but by the definition of "Ordnung" this means that you accept a higher order withtin yourdelf. Derek, Peter, my sincere apologies. Mike, what is there to say, really? I frequent most of the sales sites, and their traffic is way high enough that it is completely unnecessary to post sales post here. So please adhere to that old saying: "When in Rome..." If you can't, go see your local hobby shop, or whatever works. Just don't aggravate this situation any further. Please.

Mike wrote: > If you will recall, you replied to one of my posts in August 2004 with > a copy of the FAQ. Seems likely. > No, I did not read the whole thing. You probably should have. It could have avoided all of this absurdity. >In all actuality I have made about four sale/trade posts within the last year. That is 4 too many. > Out of those four, I received two notices that it was not allowed. And yet here you are again. > I figure four per year is acceptable, You are incorrect. > and these are under my guidelines of acceptable, obviously not yours. *My* guidelines are irrelevant. The guidelines of the newsgroup, as established by the charter, when the newsgroup was invented, are the guidelines that are relevant here. > I believe that the Usenet has a fine > self-governing system and I self-govern myself to not contribute to the > "cesspool" of repeated and otherwise ignored posts. It does. Newsgroups have charters. When people choose to ignore them, they are reminded to do so. >I don't like to see > the same post day after day and off-topic stuff like "how to make my > penis longer while consolidating my bills and watching someones > skank-cam", more than anyone else. I didn't think my post fell into > that camp but I can see some people are of a different opinion. They fell under the camp of "sales/tarde" posts. Which are not allowed by group charter. If you want to change the charter, go nuts. There are steps to follow. > While I know it would be cumbersome for you to track who posts what and > how often but wouldn't it be nice to keep ALL the Jyhad/VTES activity > under one hood? Not if doing so meant that this newsgroup, which currently works just fine for what it is for, became the central hub for trade/sales activity. As it would make reading the newsgroup for actual discussion difficult. And annoying. > You could regulate them to only so many posts per a > given time period. Much, much harder to regulate than "no sales/trade posts". > Now, maybe someone who posts sales once every 3 > months should be placing a reasonable amount of productive posts, as I > have not of late, I would be guilty on that charge. However, guys like > The Lasombra contribute much to the VTES community and should be > offered some concessions as someone had mentioned. And again, if you want to change the charter, go to town. > Maybe if these > threads are popping up too often (and I honestly didn't see the > "previous" incident), the FAQ needs to be revisited. There is no real > deterrence other than a collective boycott and/or some berating. I at > least came back to see if I had any replies, whereas a real spammer > would never look back and hence the reply and FAQ are worthless in > those instances. So you are virtually responding only to people who > read here. Just some thoughts. For one, I am unconcerend with "spammers". They tend to not so much post in these parts (although they occasionally do). The people who tend to do so, however, are people who read the newsgroup but simply ignore the rules. I can't do anything about spammers. I can do something about people who read the newsgroup but choose to ignore the rules. This is now, officially, a really stupid discussion. Hows about you simply not post any more sales/trade posts, and rather than spending the effort trying to justify why it is ok, you just don't post any more? I mean, like, again, if you really want to change the group charter, there are ways to do that. Please feel free to begin the procedure. [ quoted text not captured ]

<subject line> Well, now that it's up, what does it want for breakfast?

[ quoted text not captured ] ><subject line> [ quoted text not captured ] Coffee! Good to the Last Drop: The Coffee Deck by Art Martella <amart...@attila.stevens-tech.edu> This is the story of an undefeated deck. (In the only game it has ever been used in, the other two players took each other out in combat, but that's not the point.) This is the story of... The Coffee Deck. You are Forced Awake. With your massive Force of Will, you somehow manage to pull yourself out of bed. Your Primal Instincts tell you that you need coffee. You nearly suffer Rotschreck as you remember: you don't have a coffee maker (the old one burned down the house in an Unnatural Disaster after you left it on all night). So now it's seven a.m., and you don't have a coffee maker, which is okay, since you don't have any coffee, either. What to do? You must go out, Daring The Dawn, to get coffee. You check all of the usual places to get coffee- the local Palatial Estate, that nice little coffee house where that guy bites his finger off (they have great muffins!). Getting desperate, you fly over to Europe. You check out Pere Lachaise, France (you heard the coffee there is good enough to raise the dead!), but you get Confused when they ask if you want a triple latte decaf halfcaf expressocinno. Then you head over to Inbase Discotek, Frankfurt, but they don't open until noon. You hear a rumor that Juan Cali and his trusty goat will be at Festivo dello Estinto (Spanish for "Festival of Coffee"), so you head off to South America. It's obvious that there's a Strained Coffee Supply here. During this Day Operation, you feel your Mind Numb. As you slip into the depths of Depravity, you feel your Mind playing Tricks on you. You think you have found some coffee at the Society Hunting Ground, but you feel that your Soul has been Jarred as you are Faked Out by a Malkavian Prank: you have been Misdirected by the Folger's Switch (tm). This must be some Trick of Danya. Your Soul is Tormented as you scream Up Yours! at the Propaganda on television; all the Media Influence the coffee companies have still hasn't gotten you any coffee. You slip into a Coma, and in this Sensory Deprived state, you hear voices from the past. These spirits tell you that the Assamites may have a solution: the Ritual of the Bitter Coffee. With barely the Mind of a Child, you stumble towards Alamut. It is there that you learn of the Creation Rites for really good coffee. After performing the Theft of Vitae, turn the Blood to Water and mix with the Burnt Offerings. Drain the Essence of this Concoction of Vitality; then it can be Swallowed by the Night. This coffee truly forms the Heartblood of the Clan. The ritual completed, you taste the coffee. Your Soul Burns with a Burning Wrath at the very first sip, and you move like a Blur, at the Speed of Thought, with Quickness normally only attainable by an Escaped Mental Patient. Then, a Song of Serenity washes over you, and you feel an Aire of Elation about you. Then you remember: there's no milk. And now; the Coffee Deck! Vampires (13): Yong-Sun, Harmonist Imogen Makarios, The Seducer (do-it-yourself Taster's Choice couples!) Ian Forestal (he likes EVERY brand of coffee) Blaise Beast, the Leatherface of Detroit Joaquina Amaya Kalinda Artemis Muriel Foucade Victoria Juan Cali Zoe. Library Wake-up Stuff: Forced Awakening, Force of Will, Antediluvian Awakening, Wake with Evening's Freshness, Primal Instincts, Daring the Dawn, Dawn Operation, Day Operation; Unnatural Disaster Places with good coffee: Inbase Discotek, Frankfurt; Pere Lachaise, France; The First Tradition: The Masquerade (oh, THAT coffee shop...); Palatial Estate; Society Hunting Ground; University Hunting Ground; Festivo dello Estinto No coffee: Confusion; Torment the Soul; Mind of a Child; Mind Tricks; Depravity; Mind Numb; Strained Vitae Supply; Rotschreck; Sensory Deprivation; Coma; Up Yours! Folger's Switch: Malkavian Prank; Fake Out; Misdirection; The Trick of Danya; Jar the Soul (Decaf?) Coffee Companies: Media Influence; Propaganda; Short Term Investment; Secret Horde (so THAT's where they keep the coffee!) Coffee Creation: Ritual of the Bitter Rose; Creation Rites; Theft of Vitae; Blood to Water; Burnt Offerings; Drain Essence; Swallowed by the Night Good Coffee: Soul Burn; Burning Wrath; Blur; Quickness; Speed of Thought; Hidden Strength; Escaped Mental Patient; Song of Serenity; Aire of Elation Coffee Mugs: Blood Tears of Kephran; Concoction of Vitality; Vial of Elder Vitae; Vial of Garou Vitae; Heartblood of the Clan; Ascendance (swimmin' in coffee!) Other Stuff: Blood Bond (Bond over coffee!); Blood Doll (she's a coffee achiever); Ancient Influence (really old coffee) Skills req'd to make coffee: Thaumaturgy; Fortitude; Necromancy; Presence Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com Your best online source for information about V:TES. Now also featuring individual card sales and sales of booster and starter box displays.

"The Lasombra" <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:sqsca1lvrrcso368q...@4ax.com... > On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:09:54 -0500, "UniqueMaster" > <sh...@removethistexas.net> wrote: > >><subject line> > >>Well, now that it's up, what does it want for breakfast? > > > Coffee! > > > Good to the Last Drop: The Coffee Deck by Art Martella > <amart...@attila.stevens-tech.edu> [snip crazy narrative] > And now; the Coffee Deck! > > Vampires (13): > Yong-Sun, Harmonist > Imogen > Makarios, The Seducer (do-it-yourself Taster's Choice couples!) > Ian Forestal (he likes EVERY brand of coffee) > Blaise > Beast, the Leatherface of Detroit > Joaquina Amaya > Kalinda > Artemis > Muriel Foucade > Victoria > Juan Cali > Zoe. I'd drop Makarios, Blaise, Victoria (where Madness Network?) and replace with March Halcyon, Samson, Royce, Mustafa, and Ohanna. > Library > Wake-up Stuff: Forced Awakening, Force of Will, Antediluvian > Awakening, Wake with Evening's Freshness, Primal Instincts, Daring > the Dawn, Dawn Operation, Day Operation; Unnatural Disaster Gonna need at least 15 Wakes. > Places with good coffee: Inbase Discotek, Frankfurt; Pere Lachaise, > France; The First Tradition: The Masquerade (oh, THAT coffee shop...); > Palatial Estate; Society Hunting Ground; University Hunting Ground; > Festivo dello Estinto No prince in the crypt, so keep First Tradition? Drop Pere Lachaise & Hunting Grounds, add Powerbase: Montreal, The Barrens, and Fragment of the Book of Nod. > No coffee: Confusion; Torment the Soul; Mind of a Child; Mind Tricks; > Depravity; Mind Numb; Strained Vitae Supply; Rotschreck; Sensory > Deprivation; Coma; Up Yours! Need to add a Flamethrower to set up the {March Halcyon w/FT gets diablerized so you can play Up Yours!} combo. Or drop FT and UY and add more Wakes. > Folger's Switch: Malkavian Prank; Fake Out; Misdirection; The Trick of > Danya; Jar the Soul (Decaf?) Misdirection is wallpaper now, since they neutered it after 5 weenie presence decks made it to the finals. Drop it and add Deal with the Devil so that a milling deck can get upset when they Slaughterhouse it. > Coffee Companies: Media Influence; Propaganda; Short Term Investment; > Secret Horde (so THAT's where they keep the coffee!) You're never gonna profit off the Short Term Investments with all these Master cards, so add Malkavian Time Auctions to sell them off. Better yet, replace with more Deal with the Devil. > Coffee Creation: Ritual of the Bitter Rose; Creation Rites; Theft of > Vitae; Blood to Water; Burnt Offerings; Drain Essence; Swallowed by > the Night Now this actually looks like a Yong Sun module. > Good Coffee: Soul Burn; Burning Wrath; Blur; Quickness; Speed of > Thought; Hidden Strength; Escaped Mental Patient; Song of Serenity; > Aire of Elation Beast can't play Speed of Thought, and it's not at stealth (stupid misprint), so drop it and add 9 Conditionings. > Coffee Mugs: Blood Tears of Kephran; Concoction of Vitality; Vial of > Elder Vitae; Vial of Garou Vitae; Heartblood of the Clan; Ascendance > (swimmin' in coffee!) You'll need to add Powder of Rigidity or this deck will get fucked by werewolves. Good thing it's not unique. Add 8. > Other Stuff: Blood Bond (Bond over coffee!); Blood Doll (she's a > coffee achiever); Ancient Influence (really old coffee) Beast can't play Blood Bond, so drop it and add 9 Conditionings, and that Goblin guy, and Gregory Winter. > Skills req'd to make coffee: Thaumaturgy; Fortitude; Necromancy; > Presence Too many masters, so drop these and add 4 Trophy: Discipline. > Carpe noctem. > > Lasombra > > http://www.TheLasombra.com > Your best online source for information about V:TES. > Now also featuring individual card sales and sales > of booster and starter box displays. Cards me please! -- Mike Ooi "You have left the world. Click to continue."

On 6 Jun 2005 05:56:39 -0700, Mike <mykbu...@yahoo.com> wrote: > I felt this was the best group to post to as it has the highest > concentration of players. This group has the highest concentration of players partially because sales posts are not allowed. People who come here are interested in the game itself, not buying/selling (well, at least theoretically). The only way to retain that high concentration of players is to keep sales posts AWAY. -- Bye, Daneel

"The Lasombra" <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:sqsca1lvrrcso368q...@4ax.com... > And now; the Coffee Deck! ... And here it is, organized by ELDB (for people curious enough to want to see what it looks like split out by card type, etc): Deck Name: Coffee Deck Created By: Art Martella Description: Good to the Last Drop. Crypt: (13 cards, Min: 16, Max: 35, Avg: 6.38) ---------------------------------------------- 1 Kalinda CEL OBF tha 6, Assamite:2 1 Blaise ANI CEL obf vic 7, Gangrel antitribu:2 1 Artemis aus cel DEM for OBF 6, Malkavian antitribu:2 1 Imogen AUS DEM obf pro vic 9, Malkavian antitribu:2, Archbishop 1 Muriel Foucade aus DEM 5, Malkavian antitribu:2 1 Victoria AUS cel obf 5, Malkavian:2 1 Zoe AUS cel obf 3, Malkavian:2 1 Beast ani cel OBF POT 7, Nosferatu antitribu:2 1 Yong-Sun ANI aus OBF POT THA 10, Nosferatu antitribu:2, Cardinal 1 Joaquina Amaya ANI CHI FOR 6, Ravnos:2 1 Makarios AUS dom PRE SER 8, Toreador:2 1 Ian Forestal AUS DOM THA 8, Tremere antitribu:2 1 Juan Cali aus for 3, Ventrue antitribu:2 Library: (65 cards) ------------------- Master (21 cards) 1 Antediluvian Awakening 1 Ascendance 1 Blood Doll 1 Depravity 1 Festivo dello Estinto 1 Fortitude 1 Heartblood of the Clan 1 Inbase Discotek, Frankfurt 1 Malkavian Prank 1 Misdirection 1 Necromancy 1 Pere Lachaise, France 1 Presence 1 Rotschreck 1 Secret Horde 1 Short-Term Investment 1 Society Hunting Ground 1 Strained Vitae Supply 1 Thaumaturgy 1 University Hunting Ground 1 Unnatural Disaster Action (11 cards) 1 Blood Bond 1 Creation Rites 1 Force of Will 1 Jar the Soul 1 Media Influence 1 Mind Numb 1 Mind of a Child 1 Propaganda 1 Sensory Deprivation 1 Speed of Thought 1 Trick of the Danya, The Action Modifier (6 cards) 1 Aire of Elation 1 Confusion 1 Daring the Dawn 1 Dawn Operation 1 Day Operation 1 Mind Tricks Political Action (2 cards) 1 Ancient Influence 1 First Tradition: The Masquerade, The Reaction (3 cards) 1 Burnt Offerings 1 Forced Awakening 1 Wake with Evening's Freshness Combat (14 cards) 1 Blood to Water 1 Blur 1 Burning Wrath 1 Coma 1 Drain Essence 1 Fake Out 1 Hidden Strength 1 Primal Instincts 1 Quickness 1 Song of Serenity 1 Soul Burn 1 Theft of Vitae 1 Torment the Soul 1 Up Yours! Ally (1 cards) 1 Escaped Mental Patient Equipment (5 cards) 1 Blood Tears of Kephran 1 Concoction of Vitality 1 Palatial Estate 1 Vial of Elder Vitae 1 Vial of Garou Blood Combo (2 cards) 1 Ritual of the Bitter Rose 1 Swallowed by the Night This deck was last saved at 1:27:49 AM on 6/8/2005

And fred gets the vtes award for the world's most subtle change of topic!!! :) Way to go bra, never mind defuse the situation, step left and walk backwards around it. Sure you haven't got any malky vitae coursing thru those veins...?

"Blooded Sand" <sand...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1118283672.3...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Hmmm??? With no quote for context but an apparent threading to my ELDB version of The Lasombra's post about Art Martella's coffee deck (phew!), I assume you're referring to the right turn UniqueMaster started and Jeff completed. Yea, agreed, that was good. But it wasn't mine. F

"Frederick Scott" <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> wrote in message news:kzQpe.8774$qr.7967@fed1read06... [ quoted text not captured ] If a bad thread won't go away, thread-jack it... DaveZ Atom Weaver

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 16:12:03 GMT, David Zopf <david...@snetx.net> wrote: > If a bad thread won't go away, thread-jack it... > > DaveZ > Atom Weaver Agreed. Here's a quickie: I've read about a quick 7-card combat duel format last year. I'm planning on trying out the format, and I'm curious about what experience people have with the stuff (like, what rules work best, what cards need to be banned, etc.). Could anyone please post (or point out) the latest version of the game? -- Bye, Daneel

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 18:50:12 +0200, Daneel <dan...@eposta.hu> wrote: >Here's a quickie: I've read about a quick 7-card combat duel format last > year. I'm planning on trying out the format, and I'm curious about what > experience people have with the stuff (like, what rules work best, what > cards need to be banned, etc.). >Could anyone please post (or point out) the latest version of the game? You will want to ask for "Battle Arena" on the UK Forums. http://membres.lycos.fr/britvtes/forum/ They were playing with this variant in one of their forum subsets for a quite a while. The mastermind involved was once known as TPOTH and he posted Tzimisce newsletters. [ quoted text not captured ]

The Lasombra wrote: > On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 18:50:12 +0200, Daneel <dan...@eposta.hu> wrote: > > >Here's a quickie: I've read about a quick 7-card combat duel format last > > year. I'm planning on trying out the format, and I'm curious about what > > experience people have with the stuff (like, what rules work best, what > > cards need to be banned, etc.). > > >Could anyone please post (or point out) the latest version of the game? > > You will want to ask for "Battle Arena" on the UK Forums. > > http://membres.lycos.fr/britvtes/forum/ > > They were playing with this variant in one of their forum subsets for > a quite a while. The mastermind involved was once known as TPOTH and > he posted Tzimisce newsletters. > I've run it at one of my tournaments. You'll want to have a long hard look at Terror Frenzy Superior. You also probably don't want too high a capacity.

[ quoted text not captured ] I've also run it and played it on the Forum. I couldn't find the rules on their again as the section has been closed, butit runs something like this: Each player chooses a 5 cap vampire (you could change this if you want). They also choose a 7 card "hand" with which to fight. Vampires do not contest. Undead Persitance was banned. You'll see why. If you want, you could have a weapon/equipment if you use Disguised/Concealed Weapon to bring it out. The cost+1 of this is paid by the blood on the vampire (i.e. .44 Magnum cost 3 blood - reductions (like Black cat) have an affect on this). The weapon card and CW/DW card must be part of your hand. Decide randomly who is the Acting Methuselah, put your vampire on the table, without knowing your opponents (hence no contesting), and play a combat. There is automatically a press to continue to the next round. All combat steps are adhered to, including when resolution takes place. Anyone either S:CE or pressing to end loses unless they can restart the combat (i.e. Psyche or Telepathic Tracking) as running away is conceding. This even applies to superior Catatonic Fear if the damage would torporise, as you ran away first. The winner is the first to torporise/burn their opponent (Hence Undead Persistance being banned). A draw if both go to torpor/burnt at the same time. Aside from weapons, only combat cards are allowed. Blood must be spent if required. Once played, a card is gone (unless permanent) so you will exhaust your hand and cards cannot be retrieved from the ash heap. A real life game tends only to last a few minutes, but it is a great way of showing newbies how combat works. When I ran it live, we each had 3 vampires and hands. You chose the order that you wanted to play your vampires without seeing who the other Methuselah had chosen and then play a duel of three "rounds". Each could only be played once in a duel. Randomise who would be acting Methuselah first and 3rd round, and then the other is acting Methuselah 2nd round. It was a nice fill in whilst waiting for rounds in a normal tourney to end. I might have missed something in the rules/explanation, but I'm sure Pierre or someone else could fill in the rest. I think an errata had to be done to one or two combat cards, but I can't remember which ones or what was done. Cheers Andy VEKN Setite Ruler of Cambridge