rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Clan and Sect Questions

6 messages from 6 participants · 08 August 1997 – 13 August 1997
original thread on Google Groups

John Whelan

I have a few questions regarding the relationship between clan and sect in Jyhad. There are currently 3 sects: (Camarilla, Sabbat, and Independent). Of the 10 Sabbat clans, 8 are counterparts of the 7 camarilla clans plus the clanless caitiff. The existence of these "counterpart" clans within the Sabbat suggests that clan is not independent of sect. The "Nosferatu antitribu" clan seems essentially identical to the "Nosferatu" clan in all respects except that they are Sabbat instead of Camarilla. One is tempted to conclude that this is what defines the difference between them, but is this official? Does one automatically change clans whenever one changes sects? If a Nosferatu Antitribu gains a Writ of Acceptance, is he then considered to be a regular Nosferatu, or rather is he a Nos-Antitribu who just happens to be Camarilla? Can one belong to two sects simultaneously? Is a Sabbat vampire with a Writ of Acceptance BOTH Sabbat and Camarilla? Does "antitribu" necessarily mean Sabbat? Does changing ones clan cause one's sect to change? If Olivia (Nos-Antitribu) uses clan impersonation to impersonate a regular Nosferatu, is she now considered a Camarilla Vampire, or does she still need a Writ of Acceptance for that? If a Pander gets a Writ of Acceptance, is he now a clanless caitiff? Can Lucretia play Clan Impersonation to pretend to be a Pander, then gain a Writ of Acceptance to become a Caitiff, then have Dimple play Revelation of the Sire on her to raise her capacity to 11? If a Lasombra gains a Writ of Acceptance, is he now considered a member of a new clan called "Camarilla Lasombra"? Can he no longer use cards that are specific to the "Sabbat" Lasombra? What about independents? Is an independent Vampire who gains a Writ of Acceptance still considered to be of his original clan, or is he now a new clan (Camarilla Settites, Camarilla Ravnos, etc)? Do cards like "Ravnos Acceptance" essentially turn all "Ravnos" cards into "Camarilla Ravnos" cards"? Does Non-camarilla necessarily mean Independent, or does that only apply to Vampires? Can cards from Ancient Hearts and Dark Sovriegns thta target "Non-Camarila" vampires be targetted against Sabbat as well? Thanks in advance John W.

Alan Flesch

John Whelan wrote: > > I have a few questions regarding the relationship between clan and sect in > Jyhad. There are currently 3 sects: (Camarilla, Sabbat, and > Independent). Cards which refer to 'non-Camarilla vampires' would include Sabbat, Ravnos, FoS, Assamites, and Giovanni. Cards which refer to 'non-Sabbat' Vampires would include Camarilla, Ravnos, FoS, Assamites, and Giovanni. There are currently no cards which refer to non-Camarilla, non-Sabbat vampires i.e. there is no 'Independent' Sect. > Of the 10 Sabbat clans, 8 are counterparts of the 7 > camarilla clans plus the clanless caitiff. Correct > The existence of these "counterpart" clans within the Sabbat suggests that > clan is not independent of sect. The "Nosferatu antitribu" clan seems > essentially identical to the "Nosferatu" clan in all respects except that > they are Sabbat instead of Camarilla. One is tempted to conclude that > this is what defines the difference between them, but is this official? The token which specifies clan identifies sect. (round blood circle=Camarilla, splattered blood circle = Sabbat.) IIRC there's also a trait in the box listing with 'Sabbat' written in it. > Does one automatically change clans whenever one changes sects? No. (The opposite is true, however : if you change clans, you change sects.) > If a Nosferatu Antitribu gains a Writ of Acceptance, is he then considered > to be a regular Nosferatu, or rather is he a Nos-Antitribu who just > happens to be Camarilla? Anti-Nosferatu who is a Camarilla vampire. > Can one belong to two sects simultaneously? > Is a Sabbat vampire with a Writ of Acceptance BOTH Sabbat and Camarilla? No. > Does "antitribu" necessarily mean Sabbat? No. Lasombra and Tzimice both lack the 'anti-tribu' stat. In the WoD, Lasombra Antitribu is Camarilla. (Not that it matters for Jyhad game terms). But, more telling, an AntiNos with a Writ is a Camarilla AntiNos. > Does changing ones clan cause one's sect to change? If Olivia > (Nos-Antitribu) uses clan impersonation to impersonate a regular > Nosferatu, is she now considered a Camarilla Vampire, or does she still > need a Writ of Acceptance for that? She's a Camarilla vampire. > If a Pander gets a Writ of Acceptance, is he now a clanless caitiff? No. He's a Pander who is a Camarilla Vampire. > Can Lucretia play Clan Impersonation to pretend to be a Pander, then gain > a Writ of Acceptance to become a Caitiff, then have Dimple play Revelation > of the Sire on her to raise her capacity to 11? No, but it's amusing to think of. > If a Lasombra gains a Writ of Acceptance, is he now considered a member of > a new clan called "Camarilla Lasombra"? Can he no longer use cards that > are specific to the "Sabbat" Lasombra? Clan-specific cards do not consider sect. > What about independents? Is an independent Vampire who gains a Writ of > Acceptance still considered to be of his original clan, or is he now a new > clan (Camarilla Settites, Camarilla Ravnos, etc)? Clan and Sect are not necessarily connected; changing sect does not change clan, but changing clan changes sect. > Do cards like "Ravnos Acceptance" essentially turn all "Ravnos" cards into > "Camarilla Ravnos" cards"? They would lose the 'Non-Camarilla' trait in their box. > Does Non-camarilla necessarily mean Independent, or does that only apply > to Vampires? Can cards from Ancient Hearts and Dark Sovriegns thta target > "Non-Camarila" vampires be targetted against Sabbat as well? See above. > Thanks in advance Someone more official will come on shortly... :) > John W. Alan (aj)

Mike Wood

Alan Flesch <afl...@calvin.usc.edu> wrote in article <33EB73...@calvin.usc.edu>... > > Does "antitribu" necessarily mean Sabbat? > > No. Lasombra and Tzimice both lack the 'anti-tribu' stat. In the WoD, > Lasombra Antitribu is Camarilla. (Not that it matters for Jyhad > game terms). But, more telling, an AntiNos with a Writ is a > Camarilla AntiNos. This isn't quite true. The Tzimisce have no "antitribu". The non-Sabbat Tzimisce are called Old Clan Tzimisce. The Lasombra antitribu are not necessarily members of the Camarilla. Generally, they are independent. They are called antitribu to signify that they are separate and distinct from the Sabbat Lasombra. Ba'alzemon d%#n typos! balz...@hcol.net http://www.hcol.net/~balzemon

Demos

I guess my question is directed at LSJ, can a Sabbat vampire become a Camarilla vis-a-vis Writ of Acceptance (as if we want those vile vermin in the Camarilla)? I would think not because Sabbat is clearly stated at the bottom of the vampire. But, I am known to be wrong... -- Respectfully, Demos Ventrue Elder

LSJ (VtES Rep)

Demos wrote: > > I guess my question is directed at LSJ, can a Sabbat vampire become a > Camarilla vis-a-vis Writ of Acceptance (as if we want those vile vermin in > the Camarilla)? I would think not because Sabbat is clearly stated at the > bottom of the vampire. Yes. Card text on the Writ changes the sect of the vampire (while the vampire has the Writ). -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@regency.wizards.com) Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. (*) - Subject to review by Rules Team

James Coupe

In article <01bca642$983cb920$986c...@ttaggarts.nisca.acs.ohio- state.edu>, Demos <tagg...@osu.edu> writes >I guess my question is directed at LSJ, can a Sabbat vampire become a >Camarilla vis-a-vis Writ of Acceptance (as if we want those vile vermin in >the Camarilla)? I would think not because Sabbat is clearly stated at the >bottom of the vampire. Well, I see LSJ's replied but at the bottom of the Giovanni and stuff like that it says Non-Camarilla, so then it would be used by no-one (Camarilla don't need it, Sabbat say Sabbat and Giovanni say non- camarilla). However, it does seem odd that Sabbat vampires can become Camarilla, and retain their former clan, but that's the way it goes. Anyway, just wondering if people had an thoughts on a card that converted people to join the Sabbat (which does happen - the Brujah antitribu convert people a lot, if memory serves - doesn't really matter cos it does happen anyway, whoever does it). Any ideas for how such a card would work (equipment, action, master or whatever, who played it and so on). -- James Coupe (remove .nospam to reply by e-mail) I think I saw another ship in the sky today. A big white one. I've never seen a big white one. Only six small black ones. Perhaps six small black ones can look like one big white one. Perhaps I would like a glass of whisky. Yes, that seems more likely.