Allies deck (using PF)

I threw this up on the VTES-L list already...but this is for those who aren't on it. This is a 6CL deck. The original version had a Memories and a Blood Doll instead of the two Barrens. Also the Laptop Computers were a replacement for more Computer Hacking. The Sport Bikes replaced more another Arson, PF, and 2 Dodges. I've toyed with variations using Ambush or Delaying Tactics (or Surprise Influence). Using pre-7/7 rules, I've had no problem sweeping small tables with this deck since I'm able to concentrate my Memories better and I've had no problem burning vampires with PF. I'm going to try it out on a JOL game since that will be the most adverse conditions for the deck. I'm interested to see how the rest of the text of PF works out. If I hit a vampire down to zero and use PF, they're going to go to torpor as soon as they have to hunt. With enough weenies at my disposal (or Nephandus) burning vampires in torpor should be pretty much risk-free. The deck construction uses the same formula that I use for all my decks: 12 vampire crypt, 90 card library containing 20 master cards. Noal CRYPT Mustafa Rahman-Tremere-2 cap Roreca Quaid-Tremere-2 cap Heinrick Schlempt-Anti Tremere-2 cap Brooke-Anti Tremere-3 cap Horatio-Tzimisce-2 cap Wendy Wade-Tzimisce-3 cap Boy Toy-Anti Malk-2 cap Yorik-Anti Malk-3 cap Mario Giovanni-3 cap Rudolpho Giovanni-3 cap Angel-Brujah-2 cap Vasilis, The Traitor of Don Cruez-Brujah-2 cap LIBRARY Blood Doll-Master Blood Doll-Master Blood Doll-Master Blood Doll-Master Blood Doll-Master Blood Doll-Master Memories of Mortality-Master-1 pool Memories of Mortality-Master-1 pool Memories of Mortality-Master-1 pool Memories of Mortality-Master-1 pool Memories of Mortality-Master-1 pool Memories of Mortality-Master-1 pool Academic Hunting Ground-Tremere-2 pool Institution Hunting Ground-Anti Malk-2 pool Library Hunting Ground-Tzimisce-2 pool Morgue Hunting Ground-Giovanni-2 pool University Hunting Ground-Anti Tremere-2 pool Warzone HuntingGround-Brujah-2 pool The Barrens-Master: Unique Location The Barrens-Master: Unique Location The Knights-Unique Ally-Brujah-1 pool The Slashers-Unique Ally-Brujah-1 pool Loyal Street Gang-Ally-Brujah-1 pool Arms Dealer-Ally-Brujah Arms Dealer-Ally-Brujah Ambrosius, The Ferryman-Unique Ally-Giovanni-3 pool Leonardo, Mortician-Unique Ally-Giovanni-1 pool Leonardo, Mortician-Unique Ally-Giovanni-1 pool Scapelli, The Family "Mechanic"-Unique Ally-Giovanni-3 pool Dauntain Black Magician-Ally-Anti Malk-3 pool Dauntain Black Magician-Ally-Anti Malk-3 pool Escaped Mental Patient-Ally-Anti Malk-2 pool Escaped Mental Patient-Ally-Anti Malk-2 pool Charnas the Imp-Unique Retainer-Tremere-1 blood Outcast Mage-Ally-Tremere-3 pool Outcast Mage-Ally-Tremere-3 pool Thadius Zho-Unique Ally-Tremere-4 pool Nephandus-Ally-Anti Tremere-2 pool Nephandus-Ally-Anti Tremere-2 pool Succubus-Ally-Anti Tremere-4 pool Succubus-Ally-Anti Tremere-4 pool Guardian Ghoul-Ally-Tzimisce-1 pool Guardian Ghoul-Ally-Tzimisce-1 pool Guardian Ghoul-Ally-Tzimisce-1 pool War Ghoul-Ally-Tzimisce-3 pool War Ghoul-Ally-Tzimisce-3 pool Order of Hermes Cabal-Unique Ally-4 pool Ghoul Escort-Retainer Jackie Therman-Unique Retainer J.S. Simmons, Esq.-Unique Retainer J.S. Simmons, Esq.-Unique Retainer Tasha Morgan-Unique Retainer Mr. Winthrop-Unique Retainer Mr. Winthrop-Unique Retainer Computer Hacking-Action Computer Hacking-Action Computer Hacking-Action Computer Hacking-Action Computer Hacking-Action Computer Hacking-Action Dodge-Combat-DNR Dodge-Combat-DNR Dodge-Combat-DNR Dodge-Combat-DNR Dodge-Combat-DNR Dodge-Combat-DNR Fake Out-Combat-DNR Fake Out-Combat-DNR Fake Out-Combat-DNR Fake Out-Combat-DNR Fake Out-Combat-DNR Fake Out-Combat-DNR Pulled Fangs-Combat Pulled Fangs-Combat Pulled Fangs-Combat Pulled Fangs-Combat Pulled Fangs-Combat Pulled Fangs-Combat Arson-Action-DNR Arson-Action-DNR Arson-Action-DNR Laptop Computer-Equipment-1 pool Laptop Computer-Equipment-1 pool Laptop Computer-Equipment-1 pool Laptop Computer-Equipment-1 pool Laptop Computer-Equipment-1 pool Sport Bike-Equipment-1 pool Sport Bike-Equipment-1 pool Sport Bike-Equipment-1 pool Sport Bike-Equipment-1 pool -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

In article <6vidrf$ic7$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Dhar...@yahoo.com writes >I threw this up on the VTES-L list already...but this is for those who aren't >on it. This is a 6CL deck. Please, for God's sake learn to print "* 6" rather than 6 copies of the card text. Please! ;) -- James Coupe (Prince of Mercia, England) Vampire: Elder Kindred Network http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net

> >I threw this up on the VTES-L list already...but this is for those who aren't > >on it. This is a 6CL deck. > > Please, for God's sake learn to print "* 6" rather than 6 copies of the > card text. Please! ;) In a word...suffer. I save my decks in JOL format since that is what I copy them to a file for. Besides...any person that has the intelligence to play Jyahd should also have the intelligence to count to six. Now I think I better go get my coffee before I get any more irritable this morning. Noal McDonald IRA Terrorist of Westland, MI [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <6vl0ev$41b$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Dhar...@yahoo.com writes > >> >I threw this up on the VTES-L list already...but this is for those who >aren't >> >on it. This is a 6CL deck. >> >> Please, for God's sake learn to print "* 6" rather than 6 copies of the >> card text. Please! ;) > >In a word...suffer. > I'd get the money back on that copy of "How to make friends and influence people". >I save my decks in JOL format since that is what I copy them to a file for. >Besides...any person that has the intelligence to play Jyahd should also >have the intelligence to count to six. People can count to six. Do you think they should have to suffer downloading six copies of each text line? If any person who has the intelligence to play Jyhad also has the intelligence to count to six, could you please demonstrate that you have that intelligence and not waste fuck loads of space on the group by filling it up with unnecessary text. Some people out there are on slow modems, you know. Also, the standard of printing 6 * Computer Hacking or simply 6 Computer Hacking has been on this group for quite a while, with all respected players using it. It's also the way Jyhad decks are archived on the various sites. How JOL requires you to submit a deck has nothing to do with how you should submit a deck to the group if you actually expect people to pay you any attention. How about if JOL forced you to submit it as a binary? Would you post that to the group? [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <6vl0ev$41b$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, <Dhar...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> Please, for God's sake learn to print "* 6" rather than 6 copies of the >> card text. Please! ;) > >In a word...suffer. > >I save my decks in JOL format since that is what I copy them to a file for. >Besides...any person that has the intelligence to play Jyahd should also >have the intelligence to count to six. Lame excuse for an overly lengthy post and lack of nettiquete. There is a reason that people like terse and to the point posts... I know I didn't even bother to look at your deck. -- /\ Jasper Phillips /VVVVVVVVVVVVVV|~"~"~"~"~"~"----------........____ jaz j^^^^^^^^^^^^^\/"~"~"~"~-----------........._____ ~"~--. * http://www.engr.orst.edu/~philljas/ "~"~'--`

> I'd get the money back on that copy of "How to make friends and > influence people". I'm not too worried about making friends with people that bitch about nonsense like that...esp. first thing in the morning...and most esp. an Englishman to boot. *gives you a winning Irish-American smile* However, my videotape of "John Cleese on How to Irritate People" has apparently been well worth the money. <a lot of profanity and angry retorts skipped over for all our sakes> In short, either settle down and take your medication or take it to e-mail. This is isn't the place for it. Next time, you might try a private, polite request rather than flipping out like a mental patient. You'll find I respond in a nicer manner. As for future deck postings, I'll keep that in mind. And for future reference do try not to guilt trip me with references to "respected players". You'll find I don't give a bloody damn. We're all gamer dorks here. Noal McDonald Irish Flag Wavin' Anarch of Westland, MI [ quoted text not captured ]

Noal wrote: "I'm not too worried about making friends with people that bitch about nonsense like that...esp. first thing in the morning...and most esp. an Englishman to boot. *gives you a winning Irish-American smile*" The main point at hand is that if you want folks to look over your decks and generate useful and/or interesting discussion out of them, you need to post them in a manner that people are willing to read. If you are really happy posting them the way you do, by all means, go ahead. I just suspect that few, if any one, will read them over and reply with comments. You'll notice that this entire thread is in regards to netiquite, and not your deck... Peter D Bakija PD...@aol.com "If we can focus, keep discipline, and not have quite as many mysterious deaths, Sunnydale is gonna _RULE_!" -Bobby

> The main point at hand is that if you want folks to look over your decks and > generate useful and/or interesting discussion out of them, you need to post > them in a manner that people are willing to read. If you are really happy > posting them the way you do, by all means, go ahead. I just suspect that few, > if any one, will read them over and reply with comments. That's fair. My point is that I prefer (and expect) a courteous and professional comment, such as yours, Peter, rather than an inflammatory "For god's sake!" I doubt the Christian deity cares what format I post my decks in. As I said previously, I will post my decks in the preferred format in the future. > You'll notice that this entire thread is in regards to netiquite, and not > your deck... I also notice that this entire thread thus far should have been in e-mail rather than in a public forum. I'm sure others have little interest in it. At this point, I wonder if anyone has any interest in the deck itself. *shrug* If anyone does, I'll gladly repost in the preferred format. If you want to see it played out, I'm playing it in jol88. Either way, Peter, after meeting you at Origins (and being the only other combat deck in the finals) I know what kind of player you are and I respect your input. I was going to post the deck I played at Origins, but I don't have a copy on file and I tore the deck apart afterwards. I'm sure someone in the Michigan Jyhad League still has a copy from my e-mail to the group. Anyway...my apologies to those of you that have been subjected to all this nonsense. Noal [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <6vluhg$kb0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Dhar...@yahoo.com writes >I'm not too worried about making friends with people that bitch about >nonsense like that Yes. Filling up the internet with unnecessary text is nonsense, especially when you could cut it down and in the process lose *no meaning at all*. I must admit, all my friends who are news admins and sys admins must be completely wrong about trying to keep the newsgroups running properly by slimming down the content (eg no html, no binaries except in allowed groups). >...esp. first thing in the morning So you think that just because you read an article first thing in the morning that that is when it was written. You may note that the internet is global, and bear that in mind when coming up with "reasoning" like this in the future. >...and most esp. an >Englishman to boot. And this has precisely what to do with anything? As an internet user, I'm perfectly capable of following established principles on a newsgroup. As a Jyhad player, I can critique a deck and offer advice. My nationality comes into it how, exactly? [ quoted text not captured ]

My apologies to those I irritated with the long form of the deck. I wasn't aware it was a big deal prior to posting it. We can all safely assume I know better now. Let's try this again and see if we can all (including me) act a little more mature than Magic players. > I threw this up on the VTES-L list already...but this is for those who aren't > on it. This is a 6CL deck. The original version had a Memories and a > Blood Doll instead of the two Barrens. Also the Laptop Computers were > a replacement for more Computer Hacking. The Sport Bikes replaced more > another Arson, PF, and 2 Dodges. I've toyed with variations using Ambush > or Delaying Tactics (or Surprise Influence). > > The deck construction uses the same formula that I use for all my decks: > 12 vampire crypt, 90 card library containing 20 master cards. > > Noal CRYPT Mustafa Rahman-Tremere-2 cap Roreca Quaid-Tremere-2 cap Heinrick Schlempt-Anti Tremere-2 cap Brooke-Anti Tremere-3 cap Horatio-Tzimisce-2 cap Wendy Wade-Tzimisce-3 cap Boy Toy-Anti Malk-2 cap Yorik-Anti Malk-3 cap Mario Giovanni-3 cap Rudolpho Giovanni-3 cap Angel-Brujah-2 cap Vasilis, The Traitor of Don Cruez-Brujah-2 cap LIBRARY #Master Cards (6) Blood Doll (6) Memories of Mortality Academic Hunting Ground Institution Hunting Ground Library Hunting Ground Morgue Hunting Ground University Hunting Ground Warzone HuntingGround (2) The Barrens #Allies The Knights The Slashers Loyal Street Gang (2) Arms Dealer Ambrosius, The Ferryman (2) Leonardo, Mortician Scapelli, The Family "Mechanic" (2) Dauntain Black Magician (2) Escaped Mental Patient (2) Outcast Mage Thadius Zho (2) Nephandus (2) Succubus (3) Guardian Ghoul (2) War Ghoul Order of Hermes Cabal #Retainers Charnas the Imp Ghoul Escort Jackie Therman (2) J.S. Simmons, Esq. Tasha Morgan (2) Mr. Winthrop #Actions (6) Computer Hacking (3) Arson #Combat (6) Dodge (6) Fake Out (6) Pulled Fangs #Equipment (5) Laptop Computer (4) Sport Bike [ quoted text not captured ]

Dhar...@yahoo.com wrote: : My apologies to those I irritated with the long form of the deck. : I wasn't aware it was a big deal prior to posting it. We can all : safely assume I know better now. Let's try this again and see : if we can all (including me) act a little more mature than Magic : players. : CRYPT : Mustafa Rahman-Tremere-2 cap : Roreca Quaid-Tremere-2 cap : Heinrick Schlempt-Anti Tremere-2 cap : Brooke-Anti Tremere-3 cap : Horatio-Tzimisce-2 cap : Wendy Wade-Tzimisce-3 cap : Boy Toy-Anti Malk-2 cap : Yorik-Anti Malk-3 cap : Mario Giovanni-3 cap : Rudolpho Giovanni-3 cap : Angel-Brujah-2 cap : Vasilis, The Traitor of Don Cruez-Brujah-2 cap : LIBRARY : #Master Cards : (6) Blood Doll : (6) Memories of Mortality : Academic Hunting Ground : Institution Hunting Ground : Library Hunting Ground : Morgue Hunting Ground : University Hunting Ground : Warzone HuntingGround Whoo, now that's a lot of Hunting Grounds. These are probably all good though; the HG/Blood Doll madness could work out well. : (2) The Barrens Love that cycling. Some Effective Managements (or Info Highway) might go well in this deck too. : #Allies : The Knights : The Slashers : Loyal Street Gang : (2) Arms Dealer : Ambrosius, The Ferryman : (2) Leonardo, Mortician : Scapelli, The Family "Mechanic" : (2) Dauntain Black Magician : (2) Escaped Mental Patient : (2) Outcast Mage : Thadius Zho : (2) Nephandus : (2) Succubus : (3) Guardian Ghoul : (2) War Ghoul : Order of Hermes Cabal I don't know if I'd really use the Knights or the Slashers here (or especially the Loyal Street Gang). Allies that cost pool but have neither a built in Rush nor a built in bleed strike me as a little sketchy compared to vampires of the same cost. Arms Dealers are good, but clearly you should have a Talbot's Chainsaw in here for them to fetch when Ambrosius comes up. ;-) The rest are all pretty good I think. I quite like the Renegade Garou and Muddled Vampire Hunter in this kind of deck as well. (I was waiting to comment on this deck until today because I was going to try out my own take on an ally-abuse deck last night... which I did but unfortunately I never got off the ground so my playtesting hasn't been very helpful yet.) My version has more Giovanni though, so as to use (in theory) Compel the Spirit to retrieve my expensive allies after they get killed. : #Retainers : Charnas the Imp : Ghoul Escort : Jackie Therman : (2) J.S. Simmons, Esq. : Tasha Morgan : (2) Mr. Winthrop I like all of these, although I'm not sure how useful Jackie Therman is when you're not playing any ranged strikes. (Unless you're playing that allies can recruit retainers? It had never even occurred to me that they might be able to until the recent discussion here.) : #Actions : (6) Computer Hacking : (3) Arson I already mentioned Compel the Spirit; I would also recommend some Clan Impersonations here - that way you don't have to rely solely on getting out the right vampires to be able to recruit and play hunting grounds. : #Combat : (6) Dodge : (6) Fake Out : (6) Pulled Fangs Always good choices, especially with the abusive old Pulled Fangs. ;-) : #Equipment : (5) Laptop Computer : (4) Sport Bike Also good. Again, I think you're required by law in 39 states to use a Talbot's Chainsaw if you have Ambrosius. And if you do go for the Garou angle, you must also add an RPG Launcher and a Hawg. Josh 'some of them want to be abused...'

> Whoo, now that's a lot of Hunting Grounds. These are probably all good > though; the HG/Blood Doll madness could work out well. Yep. Allies are expensive...gotta pay for them. > Love that cycling. Some Effective Managements (or Info Highway) might go > well in this deck too. Agreed. But you have to make choices. > I don't know if I'd really use the Knights or the Slashers here (or > especially the Loyal Street Gang). Allies that cost pool but have neither > a built in Rush nor a built in bleed strike me as a little sketchy compared > to vampires of the same cost. Arms Dealers are good, but clearly you > should have a Talbot's Chainsaw in here for them to fetch when Ambrosius > comes up. ;-) They're cheap and they make great blockers and bleeders (with Laptops and Computer Hacking) > The rest are all pretty good I think. I quite like the Renegade Garou > and Muddled Vampire Hunter in this kind of deck as well. Problem is that the Garou is too expensive. I can do better with War Ghoul at 3 pool. And Muddles is unique. I can't justify putting Malks in just for him. You gotta make the tough calls. > My version has more Giovanni though, so as to use (in theory) Compel > the Spirit to retrieve my expensive allies after they get killed. *nods* Not a bad idea. I'm just not sure if I could fit them in. > I like all of these, although I'm not sure how useful Jackie Therman is > when you're not playing any ranged strikes. (Unless you're playing that > allies can recruit retainers? It had never even occurred to me that they > might be able to until the recent discussion here.) She makes a great War Ghoul if you know what I mean. *grin* Not to mention a maneuver can often keep your vampires out of trouble. > I already mentioned Compel the Spirit; I would also recommend some Clan > Impersonations here - that way you don't have to rely solely on getting > out the right vampires to be able to recruit and play hunting grounds. *nods* Not a bad idea...but there's little room for them. Some of the fun is that the deck is entirely unpredictable. Not a tournament winning deck, but one that's fun to play among friends. > : #Combat > : (6) Dodge > : (6) Fake Out > : (6) Pulled Fangs > > Always good choices, especially with the abusive old Pulled Fangs. ;-) Esp. with Memories out.... > : #Equipment > : (5) Laptop Computer > : (4) Sport Bike > > Also good. Again, I think you're required by law in 39 states to use a > Talbot's Chainsaw if you have Ambrosius. And if you do go for the Garou > angle, you must also add an RPG Launcher and a Hawg. Not a bad idea. I could replace a Laptop with Talbot's. As for the Garou, I tried a variation with Gangrel...but they're way too expensive. I ended up replacing them with Brujah. It worked out _much_ better. Thanks for the input. I'd like to see your version, sometime. Noal [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <7059l2$7kr$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Dhar...@yahoo.com wrote: > > Love that cycling. Some Effective Managements (or Info Highway) might go > > well in this deck too. > > Agreed. But you have to make choices. If you used all 2 capacity vampires, one from each clan, and then use Recruitment to draw out the ones you want if need be. I made a deck similar to this pre-Sabbat that used only Giovanni but a bunch of Clan Impersonations. It worked pretty well. Mike -- Mike Bohlmann, MAIP - Prince of Urbana-Champaign Rules Survey - http://www.shout.net/~mbohlman/vekn/ [ quoted text not captured ]

> If you used all 2 capacity vampires, one from each clan, and then use > Recruitment to draw out the ones you want if need be. I made a deck > similar to this pre-Sabbat that used only Giovanni but a bunch of > Clan Impersonations. It worked pretty well. Hrm. It seems like Recruitment would get expensive pretty quickly at 2 pool a pop. Allies already cost plenty. It might get hard to manage the pool under those circumstances. Also the 6 Blood Dolls, 6 Hunting Grounds and 6 Memories of Mortality doesn't leave much room for other master cards. If I were to go the route of Recruitment, I'd prolly go into Effective Management instead. I try to be careful about relying on any one vampire. It can get you into trouble....esp. if someone wants to contest. Noal [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <7059l2$7kr$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Dhar...@yahoo.com wrote: >> Whoo, now that's a lot of Hunting Grounds. These are probably all good >> though; the HG/Blood Doll madness could work out well. > >Yep. Allies are expensive...gotta pay for them. You will get back the pool, trust me. Dan Hollis <Daniel....@Dartmouth.EDU> has a great HG/Blood Doll pool gain machine going on in JOL 67. It was essentially a weenie vote deck with pool gain, but boy is it hard to bleed that guy. He gets back more pool than I can take out of him each turn, and I have two Pulsed minions! I must say though that he does use a lot more Blood Dolls than you do, but 6 would still be pretty effective. Just remember though, if you want to go with pool gain and allies, try and get some Autarkis Persecutions to pass. It does count all those lovely allies you got under your control. It would be hard to pass though, especially as your predator wouldn't like to see you get back some 20 or 40 pool a turn. If you do put in APs, you'll need some Bewitching Orations, and Bribes might not be such a bad idea, after all, everyone will be getting some pool anyway. Maybe a few Anarch Revolts could fit into the deck too. Whether or not you put in the votes, you have the Blood Dolls to survive when the Anarchs come back your way. >> My version has more Giovanni though, so as to use (in theory) Compel >> the Spirit to retrieve my expensive allies after they get killed. > >*nods* Not a bad idea. I'm just not sure if I could fit them in. Well, in that case you just make your first deck, and once your playgroup has learned what it can do, go with the suggestions and things that didn't go in the first deck. Keep them guessing and wondering, that's the main trick. Same old strategy, but whole new fearsome look. >> I like all of these, although I'm not sure how useful Jackie Therman is >> when you're not playing any ranged strikes. (Unless you're playing that >> allies can recruit retainers? It had never even occurred to me that they >> might be able to until the recent discussion here.) > >She makes a great War Ghoul if you know what I mean. *grin* >Not to mention a maneuver can often keep your vampires out >of trouble. If you want to give your vamps some maneuvers, give them Deer Rifles. It might only stings, but it still stings. And it's hard to destroy with a ranged strike. >> I already mentioned Compel the Spirit; I would also recommend some Clan >> Impersonations here - that way you don't have to rely solely on getting >> out the right vampires to be able to recruit and play hunting grounds. > >*nods* Not a bad idea...but there's little room for them. Some of the fun >is that the deck is entirely unpredictable. Not a tournament winning deck, >but one that's fun to play among friends. Definitively in deck #2 then. With those Giovanni turned whatever you need. >> : (6) Pulled Fangs >> >> Always good choices, especially with the abusive old Pulled Fangs. ;-) > >Esp. with Memories out.... Yep yep yep. I always liked that card, just didn't find the deck to play it. Your only real worry would be Corruption and other steal ally/retainer cards. Unfortunately, the clans making best use of these have obfuscate. Maybe a KRCG wouldn't be too bad, as you can only have one Sport Bike on a minion. Or maybe use Auspex and Psychic Projection to give everyone +1 intercept and watch your predator squirm. It needs superior Auspex though, so could only be used by Isabel de Leon or 4cap vamps. Yep, deck #3 there, making use of Auspex weenies. You have good allies with the malks, toreadors, tremere and tzimisces. Of course, that includes both tribu and antitribu versions. Never underestimate an Escaped Mental Patient. The use of his ability doesn't burn him until the end of the fight. One day they'll run out of dodges, as long as your Trap is working. It also gives you bounce possibilities. >> Also good. Again, I think you're required by law in 39 states to use a >> Talbot's Chainsaw if you have Ambrosius. And if you do go for the Garou >> angle, you must also add an RPG Launcher and a Hawg. Yeah, but if you use Talbot's Chainsaw, you'll need some more copies of Ambrosius to make sure some other minion doesn't have to take the 3 damage while Ambro is impatiently waiting near the bottom of your deck. >Not a bad idea. I could replace a Laptop with Talbot's. As for the Garou, I >tried a variation with Gangrel...but they're way too expensive. I ended up >replacing them with Brujah. It worked out _much_ better. > >Thanks for the input. I'd like to see your version, sometime. I might make one myself. If I can find a particularly annoying version, of course. Hi Legbiter. Bleu

> >Yep. Allies are expensive...gotta pay for them. > > You will get back the pool, trust me. > Dan Hollis <Daniel....@Dartmouth.EDU> has a great HG/Blood Doll pool > gain machine going on in JOL 67. It was essentially a weenie vote deck with > pool gain, but boy is it hard to bleed that guy. He gets back more pool > than I can take out of him each turn, and I have two Pulsed minions! I must > say though that he does use a lot more Blood Dolls than you do, but 6 would > still be pretty effective. Weenie vote decks are a completely different animal that ally decks. Because the cost of allies can be quite high, pool management is more difficult. Since I use a 6CL when I build a deck (which is what our group prefers) I have to be careful when I play a high overhead deck such as this. > Just remember though, if you want to go with pool gain and allies, try and > get some Autarkis Persecutions to pass. Getting Autarkis Persecution to pass is a pipe dream. There's no way I can get the votes to push it through...and nobody in their right mind would vote for it. > Maybe a few Anarch Revolts could fit into the deck too. Whether or not you > put in the votes, you have the Blood Dolls to survive when the Anarchs come > back your way. The pool management is hard enough as it is. Besides there's no way I could defend it if someone wanted to vote it down and there's no way I can get rid of it if I get in trouble. > Well, in that case you just make your first deck, and once your playgroup > has learned what it can do, go with the suggestions and things that didn't > go in the first deck. Keep them guessing and wondering, that's the main > trick. Same old strategy, but whole new fearsome look. *grin* By the time I re-tweak this deck, I'll be bored with playing it. When I get bored with a deck or play it a tournament, I completely tear it apart and try something new....keeps the game fresh. As it is, I have 6 decks currently built: This allies deck The Gangrel/!Gangrel "Kill everything that moves" deck The "Uriah Winter, Trojan Horse of the Giovanni" deck (which I haven't tried yet) A Malkavian/!Nosferatu "Madness Network/Using the Advantage" deck A Ravnos "Trap/Apparition/Crimson Sentinel" deck & A Malkavian/Toreador/Ventrue aus-dom-pre political deck. > >> I like all of these, although I'm not sure how useful Jackie Therman is > >> when you're not playing any ranged strikes. (Unless you're playing that > >> allies can recruit retainers? It had never even occurred to me that they > >> might be able to until the recent discussion here.) > > > >She makes a great War Ghoul if you know what I mean. *grin* > >Not to mention a maneuver can often keep your vampires out > >of trouble. > > If you want to give your vamps some maneuvers, give them Deer Rifles. It > might only stings, but it still stings. And it's hard to destroy with a > ranged strike. If I was only using Jackie Thurman for the maneuver, I would agree. However, her primary purpose is a free retainer that serves a useful function that I can sacrifice to make a War Ghoul. > Yep, deck #3 there, making use of Auspex weenies. You have good allies with > the malks, toreadors, tremere and tzimisces. *nods* I did a Weenies with Presence deck. I've got two versions....one that's all bleed and one with political defense. I'll post them later. > Yeah, but if you use Talbot's Chainsaw, you'll need some more copies of > Ambrosius to make sure some other minion doesn't have to take the 3 damage > while Ambro is impatiently waiting near the bottom of your deck. *nods* With 2 Giovanni in a crypt of 12 and only 1 Ambrosius in the deck, its a lot of odds to buck to use Talbot's Chainsaw. But I can always replace the extra Leonardo with Ambrosius...and with 2 Arms Dealers, it would be more likely to be useful. Noal -- "DISCUSSION, n. A method of confirming others in their errors." -Ambrose Bierce. [ quoted text not captured ]

Dhar...@yahoo.com wrote: : > I don't know if I'd really use the Knights or the Slashers here (or : > especially the Loyal Street Gang). Allies that cost pool but have neither : > a built in Rush nor a built in bleed strike me as a little sketchy compared : > to vampires of the same cost. Arms Dealers are good, but clearly you : > should have a Talbot's Chainsaw in here for them to fetch when Ambrosius : > comes up. ;-) : They're cheap and they make great blockers and bleeders (with Laptops : and Computer Hacking) Yeah, but not cheap *enough*. For the same 1 pool, you can get a Caitiff who will generally have a discipline and doesn't get burned after being in 2-3 fights (and has an innate bleed). Generally I like allies that have some strong built-in abilities that can help make them worth the pool outlay - if a vampire would be more effective even without playing any additional cards for it, the ally probably sucks. : Problem is that the Garou is too expensive. I can do better with War Ghoul : at 3 pool. And Muddles is unique. I can't justify putting Malks in just for : him. You gotta make the tough calls. Yes, War Ghoul is fairly amazing. ;-) : > Also good. Again, I think you're required by law in 39 states to use a : > Talbot's Chainsaw if you have Ambrosius. And if you do go for the Garou : > angle, you must also add an RPG Launcher and a Hawg. : Not a bad idea. I could replace a Laptop with Talbot's. As for the Garou, I : tried a variation with Gangrel...but they're way too expensive. I ended up : replacing them with Brujah. It worked out _much_ better. : Thanks for the input. I'd like to see your version, sometime. I'll post it sometime. (Don't have it with me now...) If I'm lucky, maybe it'll have had a more successful game by that time. ahem. Josh sure talbot's can be bad if you play it without ambrosius... that's why you don't play if if you don't have ambrosius :-)

> Yeah, but not cheap *enough*. For the same 1 pool, you can get a Caitiff > who will generally have a discipline and doesn't get burned after being in > 2-3 fights (and has an innate bleed). Generally I like allies that have > some strong built-in abilities that can help make them worth the pool > outlay - if a vampire would be more effective even without playing any > additional cards for it, the ally probably sucks. Keep in mind that this is an Allies deck. The Brujah were a replacement for the more expensive Gangrel allies. With Memories of Mortality, the cheap Brujah allies can't be blocked and they can't be damaged. Caitiff don't get that protection. The problem with allies with stonger abilities is that they cost more. Other than that, I would tend to agree with you....I just like the variety. Noal [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <7087rh$gmd$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Dhar...@yahoo.com writes >Keep in mind that this is an Allies deck. I think the point being made here isn't that you could make a much, much better allies deck, but that, in general, allies decks don't do so well and that you would be more competitive with a weenie deck. Of course, if you're not going for competitive that doesn't matter but, in general, a 2 or 3 capacity vampire is going to help you a lot more than a 2 or 3 pool ally (who you've already had to pay for a vampire for to get out in any case). Problems with allies: 1) They (generally) only use Disciplineless cards which are normally poor and very simple 2) They cannot heal life (generally) 3) When they lose life, they are burned - a vampire needs other actions to be taken, or a much more difficult set of conditions to be reached (Decap/Amaranth with Blood Hunt vote problems/Gangrel Conspiracy/Diablerie and to hell with it). On the plus side, you can get cool special abilities and a lot better hand damage. Renegade Garou rocks, in my opinion, especially with a source of aggravated damage. Hit a vampire with two blood on them once with his 2 damage, then once with his two damage and a Wooden Stake and they're burned (2 damage to 0 blood, 3rd normal damage wounds him and so 4th point of damage - aggro - requires him to burn a blood to prevent destruction since he is already wounded). Lovely against weenies and cool anyway. However, since you *are* playing an ally deck, these are secondary points. The major problems with this deck, as I see them, are the pool cost and the spread of clans. For any given ally, you have to get out a vampire and then the ally - effectively doubling their cost if you concentrate on allies. However, this would not be a problem so much if you were, say, playing a Brujah ally deck. Get out Lupo and run with her only. The problem with this deck is it has too many clans. You can't really afford Clan Impersonation with these vamps - it would slow things down unbearably. However, you need it because of the spread of the clans - 6 in total. My advice would be: 1) Add some more pool gain if you can - Blood Dolls don't cost a Master Phase Action once you've played them, so toy with that. 2) Slim down the clans. This might allow you to toy with the master slots freed up by losing the Hunting Grounds for 1 although you may like to double up on the other ones. 3) In the process of slimming down, try and focus a little more on one area. By doing bleed, combat and intercept, the deck becomes a bit "mushy". Jack of all trades, master of none and all that jazz. Maybe throw out the Brujah allies and build up on the good bleeders, or go the other way round. How you choose here is up to you. [ quoted text not captured ]

Right off the bat, I'd like to thank James for his constructive input. I know I've been an ass to you in the past. My apologies. Hopefully, we can get past that nonsense. > I think the point being made here isn't that you could make a much, much > better allies deck, but that, in general, allies decks don't do so well > and that you would be more competitive with a weenie deck. *nods* But we've all seen weenie decks. They're easy to build. I try to do innovative things. It keeps the game interesting. > 3) When they lose life, they are burned - a vampire needs other actions > to be taken, or a much more difficult set of conditions to be reached > (Decap/Amaranth with Blood Hunt vote problems/Gangrel > Conspiracy/Diablerie and to hell with it). *nods* But with the Memories of Mortality, it's much harder to damage them. > My advice would be: > > 1) Add some more pool gain if you can - Blood Dolls don't cost a Master > Phase Action once you've played them, so toy with that. Got six of them in the deck. > 2) Slim down the clans. This might allow you to toy with the master > slots freed up by losing the Hunting Grounds for 1 although you may like > to double up on the other ones. Not a bad idea. The Malk Antitribu would be a good choice to cut. Which others would you suggest? > 3) In the process of slimming down, try and focus a little more on one > area. By doing bleed, combat and intercept, the deck becomes a bit > "mushy". Jack of all trades, master of none and all that jazz. Maybe > throw out the Brujah allies and build up on the good bleeders, or go the > other way round. How you choose here is up to you. Good point. I'll take a closer look at the allies. Thanks, [ quoted text not captured ]

So here's my take on the Ally-deck concept, both as I played it on Wednesday and Saturday, and also with the changes I made after that... whoops. forgot to write down the crypt. I think it was: 2x Rudolpho Giovanni (3 NEC) 3x Carlotta Giovanni (7 NEC dom obf) 1x Regina Giovanni (10 NEC DOM) 2x Normal (2 obf) 1x Ohanna (2 dom) 2x Vliam Andor (2) 1x Giuliano Vincenzi (2) which was changed to 2x Giuliano, 0x Regina. masters: Vast Wealth (to get Hawg, RPG Launcher, etc.) The Barrens (cycling was always good) 3x Blood Doll (pool gain good) 2x Dominate 2x Obfuscate 2x Sudden Reversal (didn't have any other good master ideas at the time) 1x KRCG News Radio (light intercept is often handy) 1x Morgue Hunting Ground (pool/blood gain) 1x Powerbase Chicago (pool gain) 3x Memories of Mortality (didn't think this was crucial enough to play lots..) minions: 2x Clan Impersonation (sounded better than it worked) 3x Whispers from the Dead (card recycling - Carlotta's probably enough) 8x Compel the Spirit (hard to get the right balance) 3x Grave Robbing (good in theory though often blocked) Spectral Divination (probably not worth the 1 blood) 5x Cloak the Gathering (try to get the recruit/compels through) 2x Conditioning (a little extra bleed power) 5x Deflection (bounce can be handy; didn't see much heavy bleed though) 4x Wake with Evening's Freshness (to go with the Deflections) 7x Fake Out (allies need maneuvers) 3x Dodge (for allies and vamps) 3x Dead End Alley (presses for the Garou mostly) 6x Spiritual Intervention (combat defense for the Giovanni) 3x IR Goggles (more manuevers - possibly excessive) Hawg (the Garou thing) RPG Launcher (Garou again) Talbot's Chainsaw (requisite Ambrosius combo; hasn't come up yet) 2x Guiseppe Gravedigger (not good enough) 5x Renegade Garou (too many, probably) Gypsies (not bad but not amazing) Leonardo Mortician (not great but not expensive either) Scapelli Mechanic (hard to say, haven't actually played him) 3x Muddled Vampire Hunter (good when he shows up) Ambrosius Ferryman (also hasn't shown up) Order of Hermes Cabal (and neither have they) --- changes made since then: removed: Vast Wealth, 2 Sudden Reversal, 1 Dead End Alley, 2 Clan Impersonation, 3 Whispers from the Dead, 1 Compel the Spirit, 1 Spectral Divination, 1 IR Goggles, 1 Hawg, 1 RPG Launcher, 1 Guiseppe Gravedigger, 1 Powerbase Chicago, 1 Renegade Garou. added: 2 Blood Doll (5), 1 Obfuscate (3), 1 Grave Robbing (4), 4 Cloak the Gathering (9), 2 Dodge (5), 3 Trap (3), 1 Ivory Bow (1), 1 Possession (1), 1 Zoo Hunting Ground (1), 1 Asylum Hunting Ground (1). --- My experience was that stacking up stuff onto the allies took way too much time. My Garou needed to be killing stuff *now*, not going out and buying himself a Hawg and an RPG launcher so he can kick more ass later. For the same reason, Clan Impersonations are too slow (and not very reliable). The added Cloaks are partly paranoia from having two Compels blocked in a row (by an Assamite no less). 5 Garou looks like just being too much - I kept discarding Garous. So I added a little pool gain (like the multiple Hunting Ground idea), reduced the equipment, and hopefully it'll play a little better now. (So far, in four games, I think I've gotten one or two VPs total. It's just not been working out very well. In most cases, I just wound up slain before I could get my allies on the road. I'm not sure what exactly to do about that. Maybe some Effective Managements would help in terms of being more able to get the right clans up quickly enough, but I'm not sure what I would cut for them.) Josh love that garou though...

In article <70fc7d$ptq$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Dhar...@yahoo.com writes >> My advice would be: >> >> 1) Add some more pool gain if you can - Blood Dolls don't cost a Master >> Phase Action once you've played them, so toy with that. > >Got six of them in the deck. > I expressed my point badly. Once the Blood Dolls are in play, they're there. You don't need Master Phase Actions for them, so maybe try adding a few pool gain cards which *do* require Master Phase actions. Maybe a couple of Short Term Investments (the best value for the card slottage, in my opinion, versus, say, Ascendance, Protracted and Secret). >> 2) Slim down the clans. This might allow you to toy with the master >> slots freed up by losing the Hunting Grounds for 1 although you may like >> to double up on the other ones. > >Not a bad idea. The Malk Antitribu would be a good choice to cut. >Which others would you suggest? It's difficult to say. If you wanted to play combat allies, I would have to say go with the Tzimisce, Gangrel and Brujah (War Ghoul, Renegade, Werewolf Pack (?), the Brujah allies). Maybe keep the anti- Malks for Escaped Mental Patient.... Or how about the Anti-Gangrel for Black Spiral Buddy. A Gangrel/Anti-Gangrel/Brujah deck would be fun. This, of course, involves adding the (Anti-)Gangrel in. For bleed, Ventrue are better for Political Ally, perhaps, but then you have the problem of stealth... a couple of weenies with OBF for the Cloaks would be a possibility. Thadius Zho, also, IIRC. Again, you need to add Ventrue. [ quoted text not captured ]

> 2x Rudolpho Giovanni (3 NEC) > 3x Carlotta Giovanni (7 NEC dom obf) > 1x Regina Giovanni (10 NEC DOM) > 2x Normal (2 obf) > 1x Ohanna (2 dom) > 2x Vliam Andor (2) > 1x Giuliano Vincenzi (2) > > which was changed to 2x Giuliano, 0x Regina. The biggest problem with Giovanni allies is that most of them are unique. Same with Muddles. Garou are nice but are too expensive. I'd recommend Tzimisce War Ghouls instead of Gangrel Garous. Carlotta is nice, but she's too expensive for an allies deck. You need to spend pool on allies...not big vampires. > 3x Blood Doll (pool gain good) You went up to 5, I'd recommend going to 6. > 3x Memories of Mortality (didn't think this was crucial enough to play lots..) If you're going to play an allies deck , there isn't a better card. It keeps the allies alive longer. You can also use it for Pulled Fangs. > 2x Guiseppe Gravedigger (not good enough) agreed. > 5x Renegade Garou (too many, probably) expensive. > Gypsies (not bad but not amazing) expensive. You can use Memories to prevent your prey from being able to block. The +1 stealth would be moot. > Leonardo Mortician (not great but not expensive either) Think of him as a cheap hunting ground. > Scapelli Mechanic (hard to say, haven't actually played him) Imagine the look on a players face when his vampire gets jacked up by Scapelli....*grin* > added: 2 Blood Doll (5), 1 Obfuscate (3), 1 Grave Robbing (4), 4 Cloak the > Gathering (9), 2 Dodge (5), 3 Trap (3), 1 Ivory Bow (1), 1 Possession (1), > 1 Zoo Hunting Ground (1), 1 Asylum Hunting Ground (1). Possession? Can that help you with Allies? Trap and Memories? Heh. That would be funny to watch Muddles eat an IC for lunch. *takes notes* I might use that idea in my allies deck. > My experience was that stacking up stuff onto the allies took way too much > time. Absolutely. Keep equipment minimal. You're already shelling out pool for allies...no need to make it worse. > (So far, in four games, I think I've gotten one or two VPs total. It's > just not been working out very well. In most cases, I just wound up > slain before I could get my allies on the road. I'm not sure what > exactly to do about that. My recommendation is to use small cap vampires that do nothing more than bring out allies and hunt for Blood Doll....and maybe the occasional bleed. > in terms of being more able to get the right clans up quickly enough, > but I'm not sure what I would cut for them.) Take a look at your percentages of vampires vs. your allies. Make sure they are approx equal. Noal McDonald -- "DISCUSSION, n. A method of confirming others in their errors." -Ambrose Bierce. -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <aEiCVFAg...@obeah.demon.co.uk>, James Coupe <ve...@obeah.demon.co.uk> wrote: > In article <70fc7d$ptq$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Dhar...@yahoo.com writes > >> My advice would be: [snip all the *good* advice] > For bleed, Ventrue are better for Political Ally, perhaps, but then you > have the problem of stealth... a couple of weenies with OBF for the > Cloaks would be a possibility. Thadius Zho, also, IIRC. Again, you > need to add Ventrue. No no no! We need to keep him *away* from the Ventrue...bad Noal...no Ventrue! Hehe. Anyway, do Thadius and the Ventrue really belong in the same sentence? Were you thinking Tremere, or am I missing something? Xian -- now less content! "you can just ignore it....and let hand jam sort them out." -Jasper Phillips [ quoted text not captured ]

I remember another question I wanted to ask this morning, but forgot. The 3 links on this page: http://deckserver.net/cgi-deckserver/rulemonger.cgi/rulings are *all* the Rulings, Errata and Clarifications? I could have sworn that there was more... a0 [ quoted text not captured ]

Dhar...@yahoo.com wrote: : > 2x Rudolpho Giovanni (3 NEC) : > 3x Carlotta Giovanni (7 NEC dom obf) : > 1x Regina Giovanni (10 NEC DOM) : > 2x Normal (2 obf) : > 1x Ohanna (2 dom) : > 2x Vliam Andor (2) : > 1x Giuliano Vincenzi (2) : > : > which was changed to 2x Giuliano, 0x Regina. : The biggest problem with Giovanni allies is that most of them : are unique. Same with Muddles. Garou are nice but are too : expensive. I'd recommend Tzimisce War Ghouls instead of : Gangrel Garous. Yeah, it's a problem. My theory on Muddles is that he is liable to get killed, so I might as well play 3 to try and keep up the chances of drawing at least one, and if he dies maybe I'll draw another one. Garou are indeed awfully expensive. However, I don't own any War Ghouls, and if I recall correctly they're relatively expensive as singles. I might like to try it anyway at some point, but I've always liked the Garou (and he's never been complained about like the War Ghoul was) so I'm sticking with Gangrel for now. : Carlotta is nice, but she's too expensive for an allies deck. : You need to spend pool on allies...not big vampires. Essentially yes. However, Carlotta's built in ability (trade a card from ash heap for a card in hand) could potentially be very useful in getting a Compel the Spirit when you need one, etc., which is why I'm using her. Plus she has both dom and obf. : > 3x Blood Doll (pool gain good) : You went up to 5, I'd recommend going to 6. Might be okay, but I would probably never want to draw 6 in the deck as it stands, since typically I'm only getting out 3-4 vamps. : > 3x Memories of Mortality (didn't think this was crucial enough to play lots..) : If you're going to play an allies deck , there isn't a better card. It keeps : the allies alive longer. You can also use it for Pulled Fangs. Well, my group is planing to switch to 7/7 rules pretty soon, so the Pulled Fangs will not be all that great. Memories is very nice and all, but it seems to me that you can't play it on *all* the vamps on the table... still, it might be a good idea to put a couple more in, just to keep my allies from dying as easily. : > Gypsies (not bad but not amazing) : expensive. You can use Memories to prevent your : prey from being able to block. The +1 stealth would : be moot. Memories isn't going to make it impossible for my prey to block; I'm certainly not going to go up to 10+ of them. And even if it did, relatively few allies have a bleed >0 built in (and I don't want to play with Laptops etc). : > Leonardo Mortician (not great but not expensive either) : Think of him as a cheap hunting ground. That's why I'm still playing with him. ;-) Haven't played him in an actual game yet though. : > added: 2 Blood Doll (5), 1 Obfuscate (3), 1 Grave Robbing (4), 4 Cloak the : > Gathering (9), 2 Dodge (5), 3 Trap (3), 1 Ivory Bow (1), 1 Possession (1), : > 1 Zoo Hunting Ground (1), 1 Asylum Hunting Ground (1). : Possession? Can that help you with Allies? No, Possession brings back a vampire from your ash heap. I put it in as a prayer card after seeing my vamps burned on a couple occasions. Compel the Spirit is the one that brings back an ally which was burned since your last turn. : Trap and Memories? Heh. That would be funny to watch Muddles : eat an IC for lunch. *takes notes* I might use that idea in my allies deck. Trap was intended mostly for letting the Garou get to multiple rounds of combat without having to play multiple Dead End Alleys, but I like the Muddles/Memories idea too. : > My experience was that stacking up stuff onto the allies took way too much : > time. : Absolutely. Keep equipment minimal. You're already shelling out pool : for allies...no need to make it worse. Yeah, and it's not just the pool cost, it's that it slows down the deck as well - instead of taking Rush actions, the allies are sitting around buying stuff. It's not very helpful. : > (So far, in four games, I think I've gotten one or two VPs total. It's : > just not been working out very well. In most cases, I just wound up : > slain before I could get my allies on the road. I'm not sure what : > exactly to do about that. : My recommendation is to use small cap vampires that do nothing more : than bring out allies and hunt for Blood Doll....and maybe the occasional : bleed. Well, my idea is to try and deal with the problem that allies Cost Too Much by recycling them via Compel the Spirit - that's the basic impetus for the deck. If I wanted to do that with weenies, only Rudolpho has sup NEC, and I would rather not have to play with Nec skill cards as well... : > in terms of being more able to get the right clans up quickly enough, : > but I'm not sure what I would cut for them.) : Take a look at your percentages of vampires vs. your allies. Make sure : they are approx equal. Doesn't help with bad shuffles though - which are easy to get in multi-clan decks, in my experience. Josh or maybe I just need 'better shuffling techniques' :-)

In article <70g98d$5n9$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, xi...@waste.org writes >No no no! We need to keep him *away* from the Ventrue...bad Noal...no >Ventrue! > >Hehe. Anyway, do Thadius and the Ventrue really belong in the same sentence? >Were you thinking Tremere, or am I missing something? I was thinking of the Tremere because he already had them in his deck. I was suggesting a Tremere-Ventrue bleed deck, perhaps. With a little Malkavian too. *mmmm* All that Dominate with some Obfuscate too. Mmmm.... pert. [ quoted text not captured ]

> xi...@waste.org wrote: > > No no no! We need to keep him *away* from the Ventrue...bad Noal...no > Ventrue! *laughs hard* For those of you not in on the joke, Xian is in jol76 where I have solid political control of the table and will, in all probability, win the table. Noal -- "DISCUSSION, n. A method of confirming others in their errors." -Ambrose Bierce. -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- [ quoted text not captured ]

agen...@my-dejanews.com wrote: > I remember another question I wanted to ask this morning, but > forgot. > > The 3 links on this page: > http://deckserver.net/cgi-deckserver/rulemonger.cgi/rulings > > are *all* the Rulings, Errata and Clarifications? I could > have sworn that there was more... Yeah, that's all the lists. Some clarifications don't make it into the list because their inclusion isn't warranted (and including a clarification of every card and combination would make the list useless). -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <70i0n0$duk$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Dhar...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > xi...@waste.org wrote: > > > > No no no! We need to keep him *away* from the Ventrue...bad Noal...no > > Ventrue! > > *laughs hard* > For those of you not in on the joke, Xian is in jol76 where I have > solid political control of the table and will, in all probability, win > the table. Yeah, and now that I'm his predator, he doesn't have the good grace to be scared of my "Evil Petting Zoo" Tremere tha/cel/ani (<--ani!!!) rush deck. Admittedly, this game is the testing ground from which it will be tuned, but I think it's pretty nasty...and I'll post it in the future, sometime... In all seriousness, replying to the crypt selection, I admit that I have seen Michael Beer's proficiency in deck building online here, and have recieved a bunch of good advice from him (lots about Assamites, I believe...), but I have to agree with Noal that the larger vampires are valid selections. I've seen this deck prey, and it was hostile-voted down on the...4th or 5th turn, I think, by a grand or grand-grand prey ( where was Sorrow relative to you Noal?) before he could get any farther. With using the whaddyacallem's for the 2 blood to a younger uncontrolled vampire (especially with the Marijava Ghouls), he doesn't really have to worry about pool much, and it's nice to have a couple of older vampires...oh, and I think that adding in Auspex would dilute the deck too much...I don't agree with Michael that he should have a little for emergencies. All the deck needs is the presence...admittedly, it's single-minded, but it's quite scary. The vampires are small enough in general to not have to worry about losing them, and you can just bleed and bleed and bleed. And the vote defense is handy. As I understand it, JOL is typically a high-vote environment, but I have only seen a couple of votes that couldn't have gone either way with a Dread Gaze thrown in. As I've seen, most vote decks either rely on titled vampires *or* lots of Bewitching Oration, etc. and not both. (Note: I said *rely* on, not use...most decks seem to try to use both...)...and most of those votes came later in the game, after voting dominance had been clearly established...Like Sorrow with his 80 million votes... Oh yeah, Go Fun Decks!!! Once I've got the Smudge gets 7 Hand Damage deck right, I'll post it again...I know at least a couple people were interested...and if anyone wants to send me (or trade) extra Gangrel Revels and Art of Pain (and Raptors), I'm looking for them, and I should just start another post, but I'm too lazy...I'm still looking for @ 6 cards from Sabbat...Hidden Pathways, Mind Rape, Succubus, Twisting the Knife, Gang Territory, and Gangrel Conspiracy...got all sets (few V:TES) to trade, and 70+ Sabbat rares... Xian "you can just ignore it....and let hand jam sort them out." -Jasper Phillips -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <70jvhe$p9q$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, <xi...@waste.org> wrote: >In article <70i0n0$duk$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, > Dhar...@yahoo.com wrote: >> > xi...@waste.org wrote: >> > No no no! We need to keep him *away* from the Ventrue...bad Noal...no >> > Ventrue! >> >> *laughs hard* >> For those of you not in on the joke, Xian is in jol76 where I have >> solid political control of the table and will, in all probability, win >> the table. > >Yeah, and now that I'm his predator, he doesn't have the good grace to be >scared of my "Evil Petting Zoo" Tremere tha/cel/ani (<--ani!!!) rush deck. >Admittedly, this game is the testing ground from which it will be tuned, but >I think it's pretty nasty...and I'll post it in the future, sometime... Now _that_ I'd like to see. :-) I imagine you could have some pretty sick fun with Terror Frenzy, extra strikes, drain, burn, then Minion Tap. Hoses other combat decks, deals with fortitude, and gets your hoards of pool... It'd be pretty damn hard to get it to work off line though, since you'd need a hoard of Terror Frenzy. Not to mention I imagine the vampire selection blows -- just who are you using anyway? Of course, this is all complete speculation... is this the approach you were taking? >Oh yeah, Go Fun Decks!!! Once I've got the Smudge gets 7 Hand Damage deck Now if only I can get enough Body Flare for my "Wynn, the Sun King" deck. I was originally going to go with Body of Sun (much cooler), except that that has the annoying habit of killing off the Guard Dogs. :-( My favorite that was posted recently was a Potence, Obfuscate, Serpentis Deck. Looks like it works much better than it sounds like too. -- /\ Jasper Phillips /VVVVVVVVVVVVVV|~"~"~"~"~"~"----------........____ jaz j^^^^^^^^^^^^^\/"~"~"~"~-----------........._____ ~"~--. * http://www.engr.orst.edu/~philljas/ "~"~'--`