rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

And again some (perhaps stupid) questions...

3 messages from 3 participants · 21 July 1997 – 24 July 1997
original thread on Google Groups

Marc René Delhalle

Hi, it愀 me again. 1. Who controls "Charnas the Imp" ? Because a) the _controller_ can choose a new victim and b) if the victim is the controller and a 2nd Charnas is played, can both contested Charnas' being yielded by the victims ? 2. Is it possible to take over a RTI ? Example: A Vampire with capacity 11 starts an RTI. Then another minion, capacity 4, uses Mask of 1000 Faces to get this action. If it works, for how much pool does the new minion now bleed ? 3. Can the damage of Charnas be avoided by using a Succubus Club? (In my untap phase I swap the Vampire with Charnas on it to another Methusalah - before the damage is inflicted- and he puts him back in his untap phase ?) Could make sense, especially by a Malk with Malkavian Network... 4. Flesh of Marble says, the damage is _reduced_. So Strikes which cannot be _prevented_ (Blood Sweat) are still reduced, right ? 5. To play a modifier, it must pe possible to use all effects of that modifier. How about playing a Bonding, superior on an Arson ? Bonding says only, the current _action_ is at +1 stealth and +1 Bleed. So the action does not have to be a bleed action :)) thanks in advance Marc

L. Scott Johnson

Marc René Delhalle (l...@leila.ping.de) wrote> > 1. Who controls "Charnas the Imp" ? > Because a) the _controller_ can choose a new victim > and b) if the victim is the controller and a 2nd Charnas is > played, > can both contested Charnas' being yielded by the > victims ? Charnas is a minion card, so is controlled by the controller of the minion he is on. If contested, the first player can yield (during her untap). The second player will then "win" the contest during her own untap. > 2. Is it possible to take over a RTI ? Example: A Vampire with capacity > 11 > starts an RTI. Then another minion, capacity 4, uses Mask of 1000 > Faces to > get this action. If it works, for how much pool does the new minion > now bleed ? The RTI card states that the bleed is for +X, where X is the capacity of the acting vampire. So, since the acting vampire's capacity is 4, the bleed is at +4. > 3. Can the damage of Charnas be avoided by using a Succubus Club? (In my > untap phase I swap the Vampire with Charnas on it to another Methusalah > - before the damage is inflicted- and he puts him back in his untap > phase ?) Could make sense, especially by a Malk with Malkavian > Network... No. Charnas doesn't deal his damage "during the untap phase". He deals damage "when the minion untaps". Since untapping all of your cards is the first thing that happens during you untap phase, the minion will suffer then (and at any other time that he untaps). > 4. Flesh of Marble says, the damage is _reduced_. So Strikes which > cannot be _prevented_ (Blood Sweat) are still reduced, right ? No, Flesh of Marble uses the verb "prevent". VtES card text: Only usable before range is chosen. If the vampire takes more than 1 damage in a round, excess damage is prevented, although aggravated damage cannot be prevented. This lasts for the duration of the combat. (M) As above, but aggravated damage can be prevented. > 5. To play a modifier, it must pe possible to use all effects of that > modifier. > How about playing a Bonding, superior on an Arson ? Bonding says > only, > the current _action_ is at +1 stealth and +1 Bleed. So the action > does not have to be a bleed action :)) Bleed modifiers can only be played on bleed actions. So Bonding cannot be played on an Arson action. -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@regency.wizards.com) Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. (*) - Subject to review by Rules Team

James Coupe

In article <33D3B6D2...@leila.ping.de>, =?iso-8859-1?q?Marc_Ren=E9 _Delhalle?= <l...@leila.ping.de> writes >Hi, it愀 me again. > >1. Who controls "Charnas the Imp" ? > Because a) the _controller_ can choose a new victim > and b) if the victim is the controller and a 2nd Charnas is >played, > can both contested Charnas' being yielded by the >victims ? > No, see the sequence of untap play for your other Charnas question. In your untap phase, you yield cards you control - other people don't get the option so, unless both Charnas' were controlled by the same person, they couldn't yield them simultaneously because if I controlled one and you controlled one, I could yield one on my turn but when it got to your turn your Charnas would be uncontested and you couldn't yield him. However, I don't know who controls Charnas. I would have thought that the controller of the vampire Charnas was on would control it as opposed to the person who employed it. Having a virtually invulnerable retainer who kills vampires in one thing; having it so I always control it and can just have him wipe out my prey's active region is another. >2. Is it possible to take over a RTI ? Example: A Vampire with capacity >11 > starts an RTI. Then another minion, capacity 4, uses Mask of 1000 >Faces to > get this action. If it works, for how much pool does the new minion >now bleed ? > Mask of 1000 Faces - Action Modifier (ob): Ignore any skill or "type of minion" requirement of attempting the action. [RTR 970630] !NEW! Masking a "leave Torpor" action results in neither Vampire leaving Torpor and no blood cost being paid. If the action is blocked, the blocking minion cannot commit diablerie, and combat does not result. [RTR] The Mask cannot be used to allow a vampire to take over an action he is explicitly prohibited from taking. [RTR] All action modifiers remain in effect, but inherent modifiers (a minion's inherent +1 bleed, e.g.) do not. Effects applied to a minion (e.g., Backways) also do not carry over to the new (masking) vampire. [RTR] The Mask may not be used to take over an inherent action - one that could only be performed by the acting minion (e.g., Thadius Zho's special action, or the Muddled Vampire Hunter's special action). [RTR] Note the first errata "Ignore any.. "type of minion" requirement. I interpret this as meaning ignore any capacity requirements (assuming the blood cost can still be paid). As far as I'm concerned, you can do it. The bleed would be at +4 though (or whatever based on the minion you transferred it to). >3. Can the damage of Charnas be avoided by using a Succubus Club? (In my >untap phase I swap the Vampire with Charnas on it to another Methusalah >- before the damage is inflicted- and he puts him back in his untap >phase ?) Could make sense, especially by a Malk with Malkavian >Network... No. From the last complete rules reference: A. UNTAP PHASE (6.1) [12.1] NOTE: If, on your prior turn, you announced your intention to Withdraw, and have successfully fulfilled all requirements, you Withdraw. (10.1) [18.2] See section VII for details. [SAB] 1. Untap all cards. (6.1) Paralyzed Vampires do not untap. (22.1) [15.3] 2. If you have a contested card which all other Methuselahs have yielded, it becomes uncontested (controlled) and is untapped. (15) 3. Take the following steps in any order. (6.1) [12.1] a. (optional) If you have the Edge, add one blood to your pool from the blood bank. (6.1) [12.1] b. Contest or Yield your contested cards and titles. (16) [12.1] i. Pay one pool for each unique card that you are Contesting. (16) [8] ii. Pay one vampire blood for any title that the vampire is Contesting. A Vampire may choose to go to Torpor if he has no blood to pay. Vampires in Torpor must yield. (15.1) [17.2] A Contested Vampire holding a Contested Title must yield the Title. [TOM] iii. Burn any card that you are yielding, along with any other cards or blood on that yielded card. (15) [8] c. Resolve card effects that occur during the Untap Phase. (6.1) [12.1] d. (Optional) Announce your intention to Withdraw. (10.1) [18.2] 4. Any vampire in torpor still contesting a title yields. (15.1.3) [17.2] The first thing in the untap phase is untapping your cards (point 1) at which point Charnas resolves (he deals damage as the vampire untaps, not in the untap phase IIRC). This occurs before point 3c which is the resolving of effects which occur during the untap phase (eg Succubus club, Hunting Grounds etc) > >4. Flesh of Marble says, the damage is _reduced_. So Strikes which >cannot be _prevented_ (Blood Sweat) are still reduced, right ? > You play Jyhad and only Jyhad don't you. V:TES card text: Card Title: Flesh of Marble Blood/Pool: n/a Clan/Discip.: Protean Card Type: Combat Card Text: Only usable before range is chosen. If the vampire takes more than 1 damage in a round, excess damage is prevented, although aggravated damage cannot be prevented. This lasts for the duration of the combat. (S) As above, but aggravated damage can be prevented. Artist: Pete Venters Rarity: Rare The damage is prevented with this text (and new texts are retroactive to old versions of the card) so you can't prevent damage from Blood Sweat with a Flesh of Marble precisely because Flesh of Marble does prevent damage. >5. To play a modifier, it must pe possible to use all effects of that >modifier. > How about playing a Bonding, superior on an Arson ? Bonding says >only, > the current _action_ is at +1 stealth and +1 Bleed. So the action >does not have to be a bleed action :)) No, no, no, no, no. I don't care whether it is legally possible but it is a stupid thing to do. We addressed something similar a while back with the idea of using an Undead Strength on a Rowan Ring (damage modifiers on a non-damage dealing strike) and the answer was no so, as far as I'm concerned, you cannot play a modifier without the basic action allowing for it eg no bleed modifiers on calling a vote. Anyway, again from the complete rules reference: NOTE: Action Modifiers may be played only by the Acting Vampire at any time in the above sequence as allowed by the card. Any cost for playing the modifier is paid immediately. (:6.3.2.1) The same Minion may not use the same Action Modifier twice. (3.2.2) [7.2.2] Only Action Modifiers appropriate to the Action may be played. e.g., you may not use Bonding on a non-Bleed Action. [RTR] Action Modifiers may only be played on your own turn. (3.2.2) Note that you cannot use bonding on a non-bleed action. > >thanks in advance >Marc > -- James Coupe (remove .nospam to reply) Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see, one chants out between two worlds, `Fire walk with me`