Jyhad at Origins

Just got back from Origins, and I have to say that the Jyhad action was pretty wack. Granted, I didn't get to play, but still, I was unimpressed. I showed up about an hour and a half late for the tourney as I was in the SFB finals, and wanted to play Jyhad (not to win, just to mangle people), but the guy running it would not let me play. Granted it was a Tournanment (I use the term lightly) and I was late, but in a game like Jyhad, where you really need 5 player tables for the game to work best, and it is hardly has a "Magic Tourney" environment, and I showed up just when a round was going to begin, I thought it was pretty dicky to not let me play. They needed some extra people to make the tables up to 5 each, and I didn't care if I won or not (so it didn't matter that I was behind a round or two), I just wanted to play some Jyhad after driving 500 miles to do it. Sure if it was a Single Elimitation or Swiss Style or whatever tournament, I would have understood, but as it was just a generic bunch of Jyhad games where victory was based on VPs, I fail to see how the tourney would have suffered by letting me and the couple of other players who showed up late play, especially if we helped make up 5 player tables. Pissed me off. Add to this that they were not using the standard DCI rules, but were using some bastardization of the old "Restricted" card list, so you could only have 6 Majesties, Freak Drives, and KRC's, but you could have all the Return to Innocences you wanted. Idiots. It was even run by the DCI (presumably, as it was Origins and it was run by WotC), and they chose to ignore their own tourney rules. Idiots. In the end, the tourney was won by our very own Alex Harmon (Hammond? Something like that. I played plenty of games with him later, but I don't remember his name) with a really, _really_, evil Mind Rape deck backed by Return to Innocence and Tomb of Ramses (surprise, surprise :-). Second place was taken by William Johananburger (or something like that. Sorry about mangling your name) with a pure cheese-o-phone deck that relied on, oddly enough, Return to Innocence. We were all surprised ;-). Both of them fully admitted to the wackness of their decks, and sadly as WotC or the DCI apparently cares not one cent for this game, the run by these busted cards will have no consequenses. I give Alex and William credit for trying, though. You guys wanna post your decks? First prize for winning? A VTES starter and 3 or 4 Sabbat boosters. I (and the rest of the Jyhad crowd) clearly don't play for money, but you'd think that after giving away tens of thousands of dollars at Magic tournies, they could at least foot for a vaguely acceptable prize. Idiots. Basically, I am just all around pissed off by the whole thing. I would have been less pissed if they let me play, the bastards, (although plenty of the players in the tourney were pleased that I was not playing, as they feared the might that is Marty Lechtansi :-), but regardless, WotC/DCI or whomever just came across as, well, Idiots. Peter D Bakija PD...@aol.com "You cannot catch me, for I am Super-Freaky!" -Artie, the Strongest Man in the World

First of all, hi Peter. This is Nick. It was great meeting you at Origins. Second, it should come as a surprise to no one that WotC has screwed up VtES beyond belief. I'm just sorry I couldn't find a _single_game_ underway at any time in the open gaming area. I was about to play in the tourney, but the $5 fee for what was certain to be a jacked-up event kept me away. VtES is a tragedy in the CCG world; an excellent game produced by a squad of dorks that won't give it the support it deserves. There was a brief glimmer of hope that FRPG would buy it; with the merger that's probably gone. Oh, and Peter Adki-what's his head accepting the award for AD&D going into the Hall of Fame was just plain meatheaded. Doesn't the man have a friend who could have told him to stay in his damned seat? A source of perpetual amusement ... Nicholas Cascone You want clever? Send money. I don't work for free.

PDB6 (pd...@aol.com) inscribed in fleeting electrons: : ... : Basically, I am just all around pissed off by the whole thing. I would : have been less pissed if they let me play, the bastards, (although plenty : of the players in the tourney were pleased that I was not playing, as they : feared the might that is Marty Lechtansi :-), but regardless, WotC/DCI or : whomever just came across as, well, Idiots. so here's my chorus response to Peter Bakija's vitriolic, but reasoned, crit of the Jyhad action at Origins. Well, I'm the originator of the phrase "I drove five hundred miles to play Jyhad, and by God, I'm gonna play" (last year at Origins, tourney run by the ineffable Shawn F. Carnes). And I played (last year) despite being about an hour late to the tourney. This year, the magic incantation did not work. This year, those who ran the V:TES tournament were post-abortional masses of shit, undifferentiated from slime molds in flexibility and gaming spirit. So, I (along with Pete Bakija) who went to Origins to play SFB and Jyhad, arrived once again an hour late to get into the tourney. Like Peter, I was just interested in playing, not in winning, and the brain-dead seven foot tall troglodyte who was running the tourney in the back of the great Magic:the Apocalypse ballroom (behind all of the other games, all of them) said, and I quote: "We cannot let you play because that would be unfair to the players who have started playing already." So, naturally, having a temper with a fuze about as stable as that of a gallon of fuminate of mercury in a milk carton on a freeway roadbed in California, I proceeded to explode at the guy. I told him, in no uncertain terms, precisely what I thought of his ancestry, and, demonstrating my extreme frustration with having wasted sixty gallons of gas in getting to Origins to be denied, carefully noted his name and badge number. I'm a vindictive son of a bitch. I wrote a three page letter of complaint to Andon Unlimited and buttonholed the manager of the con with it in hand. I demanded my money back. I demanded that the brainless fuck who was running the tournament be sent back to the complaints mailroom. Most importantly, I busted about three quarts of adrenalin and measureably shortened my life. so what. I *did* drive five hundred miles to play Jyhad. The tournament was not DCI sanctioned rules, despite the shit-eating freaks who were running it being big wheels in the Magic DC. The abuse of the game by WOTC is quite evident, with the prize for the tourney being something not precisely described as overwhelming, and the lack of appropriate management of the tourney, well, just making me blow my top. This newsgroup is about Jyhad. That tourney was *not* about jyhad. (where are the secret helicopters) Dave G. -- Ohhh... Mmmhmmm... sweet, nourishing gruel...

I was at Origins and participated in the "Vampire" tourney and I was also disappointed and disturbed when they didn't allow you to play. LSJ, I brought up several of the rulings that you had posted from the "Rules Team" and the individuals that adjudicated the tourney stated, in no certain terms, that you can not trust the "newsgroups" or anyone who posts a "ruling clarification." The dispute I was disagreeing on was the Second Tradition and most people remember my post concerning this issue. There were two other people that used YOUR posts as the basis for their arguement. Needless to say they were overruled by WOTC Reps stating that you had no power of interpretation. I don't want anyone to get their shirts in a tussle but this begs the question. What the HELL or Who the HELL has precidence? That's the problem. Those who were running the "tourney" stated that DCI doesn't support Vampire any longer. Well what the HELL does that mean? How can you expect to attract new "blood" to the game when WOTC or DCI or whoever doesn't even support the DAMN game. We, the followers of this newsgroup, trust you, LSJ, and take your word/rulings/posts as the final arbiter in any rules clarification. But, when a member of the WOTC (I don't know his name and I don't think I would post it but he knows who I am talking about) basically tells everyone at the "tourney" that you have no credibility, then you begin to wonder. It's ironic, Richard Garfield was there and I just wanted walk up to him ask him where was his F**king head. I don't know about you guys (members of the newsgroups) but I love the game of Vampire; I enjoy the friendships that are created and the Loyalty of those who play it. I am sick of the lack of support the game gets from its OWN publisher and angers me when we don't know who to trust. WOTC better get their act together. Like I said before this is not an attack on LSJ, I do trust your rulings but I hope "people" would pay a little bit more credence and respect in your postings. What you, LSJ, can do is go back to WOTC and clear this problem up. -- Respectfully, Demos Ventrue Elder

Peter, et. al.: Please accept my apologies for any shortcomings you experienced at Origins. I'm checking with WotC to find out what happened, and (more importantly) to find out what can be done to ensure that these things get fixed. -- To All: Although I couldn't be at Origins, I will be at Gen*Con this year. So, please, if anyone experiences any problems with V:tES at Gen*Con, let me know so I can help straighten it out. I won't address any problems arising from tardies, since that's under the discretion of the judge running the tournament (and rightly so). But if anyone experiences rules and/or format violations that they feel aren't being handled properly, I'll try to help sort things out. -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@regency.wizards.com) Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. (*) - Subject to review by Rules Team

Excuse me where is GenCon going to be held [ quoted text not captured ]

Demos wrote: > > Excuse me where is GenCon going to be held The Wisconsin Center, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. See the web page: http://www.tsrinc.com/gencon/GenCon97.html [ quoted text not captured ]

This is what Eric Cagle posted to CompuServe on the same subject: *-*-*-*-* First of all, I want to extend my apologies to those players who went to Origins and received a less than perfect experience as far as V:TES was concerned. Just a reminder, I wasn't able to attend Origins this year and only know what happened second-hand. I haven't had much of a chance to talk to anybody about the tournament, as most people still haven't gotten back (or are taking an extra day off). First things first, I'm going to lend some weight to the judges, for their sake. I DID attend Origins last year and could tell you that we were stretched THIN for the amount of work that needed to be done. I personally helped with three tournaments a day on top of assisting the Juniors Pro Tour Championships..and I had a LIGHT load! It comes to no surprise that the judge who ran the tournament for you was jumping back and forth between tournaments and couldn't give 100% of his attention to V:TES. I ask one request: don't blame the judge, I'm sure that he was busting his hump....and did anyone catch his name? However, I'm very glad that you brought up all the issues that you mentioned...yes, this is the kind of feedback that we need and DO LISTEN TO. I'm amazed at hearing the numbers that showed up for the tournaments, however, and that's powerful ammunition to be used against the powers that be for getting these tournaments more recognition. Now, before anyone jumps me, please remember the following: · I wasn't there, so this is all anecdotal · I don't know why the tournament prizes were so small...but know that it bothers me. I've run V:TES tournaments before and loaded EVERYONE down with product just for showing up to play. The winner walked away with a Prince's Bounty. · I don't know why the tournament was switched to a Sealed Deck at the last moment and the Rochester format was ignored. I can see why that would be annoying. · There's a very good reason why we don't try to teach people how to play V:TES at conventions: it's very difficult to do! V:TES is a multiplayer game...it's hard to get more than one person at a time who is interested in learning to sit down for an hour-plus to learn it. We would LOVE to be able to, however, but it's a matter of time, space, and interest. I always bring my decks along just in case, however ;) · I'm going to bring all of this up with the pertinent folks to make sure that this does NOT happen with GenCon. I'm also going to be really gunning to make it this year and make sure that a lot of these things don't happen. At the VERY LEAST, everyone who plays will get V:TES Promo cards and hopefully a booster of Sabbat. Prizes will be opulent if I have my way. I also talked to Jason Carl, Head O' The DCI, who also expressed his disappointment and offered compensation in terms of product to those who were unhappy with the way that things operated. He can be contacted at vin...@wizards.com. Please pass along your thoughts and comments (in a civilized manner, please) to him. Thanks! Eric Cagle **Ye Keeper of Knowledge and Loyal Toadie** Player Reponse Team/Customer Service Wizards of the Coast

LSJ wrote: "I won't address any problems arising from tardies, since that's under the discretion of the judge running the tournament (and rightly so). But if anyone experiences rules and/or format violations that they feel aren't being handled properly, I'll try to help sort things out." Thank you for the understanding and effort. The lateness and lack of getting to play was unfortunate (and my fault) and the guys running the show could have let me play, but they didn't, so what can you do? My biggest beef with that was that considering the small (yet fanatical) following this game has, they are really in their best intrest to keep the few players they have happy (if for no other reason than to get the residual Jyhad/VTES/Sabbat cards out of distributer stocks, so the distributers aren't sore at WotC...), especially if it takes as little effort as letting a late guy play, and certainly when they need a fifth guy for the table anyway, but again, this is not my main problem with the situation. The main problem was the way the tournies were run. Rules were changed in the middle of the games (for the Draft tourney), and the apparent DCI/WotC people running the show chose to ignore the current DCI tourney rules and fall back on the six of each restricted list deal, which was confusing as all the advertisment said "Standard tournamnet rules apply..." (from the on site book). Last year the Origins tourney was perfectly acceptable (and great fun) and had about 50 people. This year the tourney was wack, and only had about 30 people. Sad. That and they apparently maligned you as a source of appropriate rulings, which I found completely preposterous. You are the official WotC Net Rep for this game. That sounds pretty appropriate to me. I have mailed a letter of complaint to Jason Carl, head of the DCI, and will see what happens from there. Keep up the good work, LSJ, and I hope everything goes well at Gen Con (and I am sad I cannot attend, as I have great faith that things will go well with you in attendance :-). Thanks, Peter D Bakija PD...@aol.com "It's the kind of wooly headed liberal thinking that leads to getting eaten." -Principal Snyder

In article <19970724003...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, PDB6 <pd...@aol.com> writes [ quoted text not captured ] Completely agree with that. What needs to be done is for Duelist to publish these rulings and announce them as "Official" so that you can screw the wankers who sit there spouting shit. The way 2nd Tradition has been ruled by the various netreps in the errata is fine with me. It says it is used by a tapped prince/justicar so they have to be tapped. It gives you intercept, which you can't get in excess of what is necessary so you can't just use it as a wake replacement. WotC really need to pull their fingers out of their arses. I knew the situation was pretty bad but, having spoken to various people who are not impressed with WotC today, I feel it is safe to say they are lying wankers. They categorically stated, for instance, that Magic was just a fad and that they were going to put the the profits from it back into their role-playing products. They then subsequently dropped *all* of their role-playing products. WotC needs to give some support to it's less well known and bloody craply supported card games. There is a definite atmosphere in the role-playing scene at the moment that WotC are money-grabbing bastards who will just screw you over everything if they can. Another example is called for. My local game shop is Dungeons and Starships in Birmingham. It is a shop which does quite good trade and has a good reputation. This month, and only this month, there was a slight mix-up with the date the cheque for a supplier had to be sent off - the supplier was the WotC supplier. The shop is now out of Sabbat, Dark Sovereigns and V:TES boosters and has 2 V:TES starters in the entire shop. Similar things exist in Magic (2 Mirage starters, no Portal starters and so forth). If this had been any other supplier they would have supplied first and asked for payment second. No, not WotC. You have to pay them first. This is the RPG/CCG market. It does not have a huge amount of money to start with. Paying in advance for products virtually wipes out a shop which is being run on a shoe string budget. The stupid fuckwits at WotC think that that's fine because they can just keep on churning out Magic expansion after Magic expansion and people will buy it. Magic will stop being successful. When that happens WotC will stop being successful. I, for one, will happily dance on their grave. WotC know jack shit about anything other than how to churn Magic expansions out one after the other. They don't know how to make a playable game - have you ever tried understanding the timing rules in Magic. They don't know how to support a game - they give us fuck all support in Duelist which they don't seem to care about. They can't be arsed to even properly support it on the net. LSJ himself does incredibly well with what he's given but WotC don't give him enough support - he *needs* to be given broader powers to make rulings. There are many times I have seen LSJ have to make a ruling which was then over-turned by the RT because LSJ was having to strictly interpret the card. LSJ knows more about Jyhad than the RT because the RT (and the Design team) didn't think that Return to Innocence was broken, nor was Tomb of Ramses according to them (even though it makes you a profit on it's first turn in play if you have four transfers). LSJ does a fine job in interpreting cards, but he needs to be given powers to make proper rulings on cards. LSJ also needs to be supported by WotC in terms of getting what he says out there. In the above example of Origins, you have these jumped up wankers who think "hee hee, we can run a Jyhad tournament" sitting there saying, "everything on the net is wrong, even though the rulings are posted by an official WotC representative" WotC need to put stuff in Duelist about Jyhad - and Netrunner, Roborally, Battletech - hell, even Great Dalmuti. I mean proper stuff, not just some shit from Wolfgang Baur about how to add combat to a game. I mean, I can't remember the last time I saw rules variants in Duelist for Magic. They have deck clinics, news on tourneys, interviews with card designers, interesting card combos, previews of cards, quizzes, puzzles and so on. We have to make do with a couple of complete no- brainers who think that we need to be told that intercept is a viable deck strategy (we all knew that anyway), that combat should occur more between the Camarilla and the Sabbat (which, if they knew anything about the RPG, they would know is not as common as you would think - Washington D.C. is a city which runs on a knife edge and only barely keeps the Masquerade because conflict is stamped out - the Camarilla tends to work around the Sabbat, not against it) and that we need a three page article on how to playtest an expansion and then a two page list of cards - with very little mention of what any of the cards do, good uses for old cards, new cards that put a twist on old cards and so on which would be good to see because no matter how many odd combinations I can think of, there are plenty out there that other people use that I would never think of (try combining Dementation with Potence for a coma-decapitate combo - some of you out there probably haven't thought of doing that (though many will have)). The reason that WotC won't support the games is that they don't make a tremendous profit - just enough to keep them afloat but nothing like Magic. What they don't seem to realise is that when Magic stops being popular - ie when the general populace realises that WotC are just money grabbing bastards - then it will also go down that road. When they try and say, "But look - we've got some other games you can look at - erm, Jyhad, and Netrunner are good - Battletechs great as well" people will just turn round and say, "well, if they're so great, why haven't you supported them for the past X years" I don't hold any of this against Richard Garfield. Christ, heaven forbid, most of us would kill to have the break he's had. The people I do blame are WotC who think any game which doesn't make vast sums of money isn't worth anything. If that was the case, then WotC wouldn't be here and they know that. It wasn't that long ago that WotC were a two- bit company operating out of a couple of rooms producing some moderately popular role-playing games and producing a few supplements. If they hadn't supported those, they wouldn't be here today. WotC - Wankerus Maximus, Dickheadus Giganticus Money grabbing bastards who can't see further than the next Magic supplement. -- James Coupe (remove .nospam to reply) Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see, one chants out between two worlds, `Fire walk with me`

PDB6 (pd...@aol.com) wrote: : Just got back from Origins, and I have to say that the Jyhad action was : pretty wack. : In the end, the tourney was won by our very own Alex Harmon (Hammond? : Something like that. I played plenty of games with him later, but I don't : remember his name) with a really, _really_, evil Mind Rape deck backed by : Return to Innocence and Tomb of Ramses (surprise, surprise :-). Second Yup, you got my name right. I had a blast playing with you and all the other Jyhad players over at Origins. I agree, it was a pretty wack "tourney" but it was the first time I was able to get a game with 5+ people so I enjoyed it. Yes, my deck that I constructed, with the help of my friends and fellow posters to this newsgroup (Lev Steshenko, Yousef Master and Greg Saybolt), was evil. (Note: it only, haha _only_ had 2 Tombs and 1 RTI) Bernard in another thread somewhere called it a "bastardized Vote-Bleed" deck LOL...he's right. I'll try to post it sometime soon so others can see for themselves the true power Mind Rape offers (trump card? yes..). I wrote someone at Wizards and gave them my take on the whole thing. The guy running the "tourney", the weak prizes, the rulings questions/problems, and everything else surrounding the "tourney" really sucked big time. I had just as much fun playing those pick up games in the gaming areas with you and the others. Hopefully things will get better in the future. Alex P.S. Peter- Marty will be fondly remembered ;)

On 21 Jul 1997 18:33:30 GMT, pd...@aol.com (PDB6) wrote: >Just got back from Origins, and I have to say that the Jyhad action was >pretty wack. Well, I managed to play a number of games during my free time, just by sitting down and finding people who played; but I have to admit, my overall impression of the support was underwhelming, to say the least. >Granted, I didn't get to play, but still, I was unimpressed. I showed up >about an hour and a half late for the tourney as I was in the SFB finals, >and wanted to play Jyhad (not to win, just to mangle people), but the guy >running it would not let me play. I got there half an hour late because I overslept, and he wouldn't let me play either. Adrian Sullivan, who was hanging around in the area, told me that I was probably lucky that I didn't get to play, given the abomination that they made of the tournament rules, and frankly, I was inclined to agree with him. I got to talk to him for about an hour or so, and that was probably better than any participation in the damn tourney would have been. To reiterate the points that have been made by others about what was wrong with the tournament: -Although it claimed that it would be played by current DCI Rules in all the promotional and informational material, the actual rules used on site were a bastardization of the old 6-Cl on restricted cards tournament rules. Tables consisted of 4 players each, and there was no copy of the current DCI rules, or any acknowledgement that they even existed by the staff. -Rulings were not consistent with what has been freely available on the internet through LSJ. In fact, the interpretations of many rules and cards varied so widely between players from different playgroups that the judge had to be called over on at least a couple of occasions; then the judge gave "rulings" (I use the word in its loosest sense) which were totally inconsistent with what I've previously heard from LSJ and the rules team. -The tournament was, and I quote, "Not sanctioned by the DCI." In fact, the judge went on to say that "V:tES is no longer supported by WotC; It's a damn shame, but its true. We no longer sanction or support this game in any way." Then he went on about how Shawn Carnes should be worshipped for his efforts to save the game. Overall, I was distinctly underwhelmed by the support and honesty of the presentation of the tournament. My deck would have been illegal in the tournament anyway, as it contained 15 forms of mist, but even if I had been able to play, I would have chosen not to, the attitude of the people who were in charge was so bad. >Granted it was a Tournanment (I use the >term lightly) and I was late, but in a game like Jyhad, where you really >need 5 player tables for the game to work best, and it is hardly has a >"Magic Tourney" environment, and I showed up just when a round was going >to begin, I thought it was pretty dicky to not let me play. They needed >some extra people to make the tables up to 5 each, and I didn't care if I >won or not (so it didn't matter that I was behind a round or two), I just >wanted to play some Jyhad after driving 500 miles to do it. Heck, I flew some 5,000 miles or so to play Jyhad, from Hawaii to Ohio. I won't say I was totally disappointed in the trip, but the good parts of it were entirely derived from free demonstrations and conversations with people. Every event I paid money for, well, sucked. Every demo I was involved in was great. I enjoyed every pickup game I played. Says something there, doesn't it? > Sure if it >was a Single Elimitation or Swiss Style or whatever tournament, I would >have understood, but as it was just a generic bunch of Jyhad games where >victory was based on VPs, I fail to see how the tourney would have >suffered by letting me and the couple of other players who showed up late >play, especially if we helped make up 5 player tables. Pissed me off. Me too. At the time that I came, some tables hadn't even managed to get all the way around once, either! At least I got a refund, but just being told "they've started, you can't play" was very frustrating. >Add to this that they were not using the standard DCI rules, but were >using some bastardization of the old "Restricted" card list, so you could >only have 6 Majesties, Freak Drives, and KRC's, but you could have all the >Return to Innocences you wanted. Idiots. It was even run by the DCI >(presumably, as it was Origins and it was run by WotC), and they chose to >ignore their own tourney rules. Idiots. As I noted above, it wasn't DCI. WotC no longer sanctions V:tES tournaments, or at least that's what I was told. <snip winners> >First prize for winning? A VTES starter and 3 or 4 Sabbat boosters. I >(and the rest of the Jyhad crowd) clearly don't play for money, but you'd >think that after giving away tens of thousands of dollars at Magic >tournies, they could at least foot for a vaguely acceptable prize. >Idiots. Hell, I got half of that just wasting time on WotC's stupid Game Show in the exhibition hall. ( A V:tES starter, that is) Crummy, no? Shows how little they care. Oh, and the game they had for Vampire: the Eternal Struggle was a complete farce. I don't even want to go into what it consisted of. I was sickened. >Basically, I am just all around pissed off by the whole thing. I would >have been less pissed if they let me play, the bastards, (although plenty >of the players in the tourney were pleased that I was not playing, as they >feared the might that is Marty Lechtansi :-), but regardless, WotC/DCI or >whomever just came across as, well, Idiots. That they did. If I go next year, I'll probably try to run my own damn tournament (given that WotC won't sanction their own tournament, it'll be as official as theirs....) just to show them what a real V:tES tourney should be run like. With real rules and meaningful advertising, this time. Anyone else think that we should make our own organization, given the total lack of respect which WotC has shown the game, other than letting LSJ be netrep (and then ignoring him!!??@!!) ? Alec Chang, Seriously ticked off gamer.

Alec, I can't agree with you any more than what I have said in my previous post. The tourney was a travesty!!! As for you running your own tourney, Hey, I will participate in it. I feel bad that you flew 5000 miles and for not. I hope you will be heading to GenCon in Milwaukee. I will be there too... [ quoted text not captured ]

Alex Harmon wrote: "Yup, you got my name right. I had a blast playing with you and all the other Jyhad players over at Origins. I agree, it was a pretty wack "tourney" but it was the first time I was able to get a game with 5+ people so I enjoyed it." Too bad you don't have more players. Now that you are a tourney winner, you have the clout to drum up more. More I say! Anyway, regardless of the wack rules, I would have been happy to play just to meet other players and have a good time. Oh well. The pick up games we played were great, though. and: "Yes, my deck that I constructed, with the help of my friends and fellow posters to this newsgroup (Lev Steshenko, Yousef Master and Greg Saybolt), was evil." Yes indeed. Evil it was. "Mind Raped Marty uses his superior Dominate to Mind Rape Judah now..." Ewwww. That was a cool game, though :-) I fully encourage you to post the deck. as well as: "I wrote someone at Wizards and gave them my take on the whole thing. The guy running the "tourney", the weak prizes, the rulings questions/problems, and everything else surrounding the "tourney" really sucked big time. I had just as much fun playing those pick up games in the gaming areas with you and the others. Hopefully things will get better in the future." We can only hope. Did you get a response from anyone you wrote to yet? I am yet to hear from Jason Carl, head of DCI, but apparently the DCI may very well have had nothing to do with the whole thing. So are you have you built a good strong mighty Rush deck with which to pummel your play circle yet? Kill, kill, kill, I always say. Even with a CL, you can build a good rush deck now with all the Sabbat redundancy (like Ambush, Pushing the Limit, and all the cool new Celerity cards). Good luck! Peter D Bakija PD...@aol.com "The one boy that's really liked me, and he's a Demon Robot. What does that say about me?" -Willow

Alec Chang wrote: "Well, I managed to play a number of games during my free time, just by sitting down and finding people who played; but I have to admit, my overall impression of the support was underwhelming, to say the least." Yeah, I played a bunch of pick up games with Alex Harmon and others that were great fun. There weren't many people playing in general, though, otherwise I would have played even more. And: "I got there half an hour late because I overslept, and he wouldn't let me play either. Adrian Sullivan, who was hanging around in the area, told me that I was probably lucky that I didn't get to play, given the abomination that they made of the tournament rules, and frankly, I was inclined to agree with him." Bummer. I am sorry I missed you guys. It would have been nice to meet you, let alone play some games. I suppose next year we should organize better... and also: "To reiterate the points that have been made by others about what was wrong with the tournament: (snip)" Yeah, I wrote a lengthy yet civil e-mail to Jason Carl, the head of the DCI, regarding the whole subject, but I am yet to get a response. I was under the impression that the VTES games were run by WotC and consequently under (in some fashion) the auspices of the DCI (from what I gathered in the Origins book). If it turns out, that in fact, the DCI had nothing to do with it, let alone WotC, then I suppose my official protest was in vain. We shall see. as well as: "Overall, I was distinctly underwhelmed by the support and honesty of the presentation of the tournament. My deck would have been illegal in the tournament anyway, as it contained 15 forms of mist, but even if I had been able to play, I would have chosen not to, the attitude of the people who were in charge was so bad." And what was up with the "restricted" list? That was extremely lame. I suppose that they were using the pre-expansion list (as that was when those rules were made), and thus had Majesty and Freak Drive restricted but not RTI. Wack. and: "Heck, I flew some 5,000 miles or so to play Jyhad, from Hawaii to Ohio. " Five thousand, huh? You got me beat :-). In reality, I go Origins every year to compete in the Star Fleet Battles national championships, and did really well this year, but the only other game I ever register for is Jyhad. And finally: "That they did. If I go next year, I'll probably try to run my own damn tournament (given that WotC won't sanction their own tournament, it'll be as official as theirs....) just to show them what a real V:tES tourney should be run like. With real rules and meaningful advertising, this time." Amen brother! Last years tourney (run by Shawn Carnes) was well run and a good time. The year before was also well run. Hopefully, next year will be well run as well, WotC be damned. [ quoted text not captured ]

Alec Chang wrote: > -The tournament was, and I quote, "Not sanctioned by the DCI." In > fact, the judge went on to say that "V:tES is no longer supported by > WotC; It's a damn shame, but its true. We no longer sanction or > support this game in any way." The judge's statement is false. The tournament at Gen Con (the constructed deck tournament) is a DCI sanctioned event. > Then he went on about how Shawn Carnes > should be worshipped for his efforts to save the game. I'm not sure where you're heading with this statement, but allow me to say: Shawn emphatically supports this game inside WotC (to my limited perception of the inner workings of WotC). He has a job to do (R&D) that frequently requires that his attention and resources be allocated elsewhere, but he still promotes this game whenever he can. I am personally grateful to Shawn for all the support he has given to this game (and to me). [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ, What do you mean by saying "Gen Con is a DCI sanctioned" tourney? Does that mean 6 of the restricted cards per deck? IE Majesty, Kine resources, Earth meld, whatever that Protean card that is Strike: Combat Ends untap this vam; et. all. If SO, where is the rules or list of these cards?? I will be at Gen Con on Friday and Saturday for the Vampire Tourney so I am looking forward and meeting you. [ quoted text not captured ]

Demos wrote: > > LSJ, > > What do you mean by saying "Gen Con is a DCI sanctioned" tourney? It is sanctioned by the DCI. It has successfully completed the sanctioning process. > Does that mean 6 of the restricted cards per deck? IE Majesty, Kine > resources, Earth meld, whatever that Protean card that is Strike: Combat > Ends untap this vam; et. all. > > If SO, where is the rules or list of these cards?? No. It means all DCI rules (including special floor rules: "No repeat actions" and "PAs burned for votes aren't replaced until the end of the current turn") are to be enforced. And it means that no spurious house rules are to be introduced (so we won't see anyone allowed to play 2nd tradition if they don't need the intercept, and we won't see anyone forced to burn Fame when the target vampire leaves Torpor). Complete DCI rules are available at the wizards site: http://www.wizards.com/Leagues_and_Tournaments/DCI/VTES_Rules.html > I will be at Gen Con on Friday and Saturday for the Vampire Tourney so I am > looking forward and meeting you. The more, the merrier. [ quoted text not captured ]