tournament packs: contents and availability

I was wondering, are the contents of a tournament pack (or kit?) always the same, or are they randomly sorted like boosters, or are there perhaps different versions available? I was wondering because I found info on a pack containing "old" promos, and a pack containing nothing more than a non-legal storyline deck and 5 copies of the same (legal) promo, but I'm not sure if they were the same "thing" though. Is the only way to get these packs through attending tournaments, or can they be ordered/bought as well? As far as I know, no promo has ever been reprinted in an expansion, right? The main reason I ask this, is because me and my friends are not very keen on competitive play, but we'd love to own some of the promo cards without having to resort to eBay and such. Thanks, Teeka

On 3 Apr 2007 13:45:52 -0700, "Teeka" <teeka_...@hotmail.com> wrote: >I was wondering, are the contents of a tournament pack (or kit?) >always the same, or are they randomly sorted like boosters, or are >there perhaps different versions available? Depending on when they were packaged and sent to the distributor, there have been a variety of tournament kits, that sell for $12 each. The current kits contain 12 of each of the following cards: Botched Move Call the Wild Hunt Crematorium Ensemble Angelo Victor Pelletier (or Kisha Bhimji) Blood Doll Wake with Evening's Freshness and three random sealed booster packs. >I was wondering because I found info on a pack containing "old" >promos, and a pack containing nothing more than a non-legal storyline >deck and 5 copies of the same (legal) promo, but I'm not sure if they >were the same "thing" though. No, they are different articles. The deck you found was the Millenium Cultist Storyline Kit. It sells thru White Wolf's website and no tournament need be run to acquire it. It is 7.49. http://secure1.white-wolf.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=849 >Is the only way to get these packs through attending tournaments, or >can they be ordered/bought as well? The Millenium Cultist Storyline Kit can be purchased without running a tournament or attending one. >As far as I know, no promo has ever been reprinted in an expansion, right? To this point, only promotional vampires have been reprinted in sets. See also: Lucita Fatima Kestrelle Hayes Promotional library cards have not been reprinted in a booster or a starter. >The main reason I ask this, is because me and my friends are not very >keen on competitive play, but we'd love to own some of the promo cards >without having to resort to eBay and such. Run a local event, a multi-deck, multi-judge affair or a storyline event, when the next one comes around and pick up some tournament support then. If you buy your cards from a store, they may also be willing to order a tournament kit for you without requiring that a tournament be run. It has been known to happen in the past. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com/whatsnew.htm Your best online source for information about V:TES. Now also featuring individual card sales and sales of booster and starter box displays.

Thank you very much for the information. Another question: should I find a store that sells them, can I recognize one pack from another, e.g. can I tell if a pack contains the current set of promos, or an earlier set, or non-legal cards? I'd hate to end up buying the same thing ten times, and I don't want any non-legal cards. (plus, I'd love to get my hands on a few Geninas) Sorry about formulating one of my questions incorrectly. By reprinting of promos I meant promos that were not a prerelease card for an upcoming set like Kestrelle, but tournament promos like Angelo and magazine promos like Dan Murdock. Is it WW policy for these cards to forever be promo-rarity? Again I ask because I only play in a "social play"group and we're not that interested in tournaments, but we'd like to "catch them all" nonetheless. Personally, I'm hoping for a new gift-set like 10th Ann., containing reprints of promos... Also, why are Blood Doll and Wake in the packs? Granted, they're amongst the (if not THE) most useful cards in the game, but everyone I know has plenty of them, I mean, they're hard to miss if you buy a few starters and boosters. Are these versions different? Thanks again!

Teeka wrote: > Also, why are Blood Doll and Wake in the packs? Granted, they're > amongst the (if not THE) most useful cards in the game, but everyone I > know has plenty of them, I mean, they're hard to miss if you buy a few > starters and boosters. Are these versions different? They're easy to miss if you buy only boosters. They're in a plenty of starters, true, but they haven't appeared in boosters in a decade.

On Apr 4, 9:23 am, "Teeka" <teeka_dra...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Thank you very much for the information. > Another question: should I find a store that sells them, can I > recognize one pack from another, e.g. can I tell if a pack contains > the current set of promos, or an earlier set, or non-legal cards? >From the exterior, no, you cannot tell the difference between the older promo kits and the newer ones. The oldest ones also had a package of counters inside, so you might be able to tell by that. The only non-legal cards are the two storyline decks: Millennium Cultist and Nergal. >I'd hate to end up buying the same thing ten times, and I don't want any > non-legal cards. (plus, I'd love to get my hands on a few Geninas) Genina has not yet appeared in any of the tournament kits that have passed thru my store. > Sorry about formulating one of my questions incorrectly. By reprinting > of promos I meant promos that were not a prerelease card for an > upcoming set like Kestrelle, but tournament promos like Angelo and > magazine promos like Dan Murdock. Is it WW policy for these cards to > forever be promo-rarity? Seems that way. They have no announced policy on the matter. > Again I ask because I only play in a "social play"group and we're not > that interested in tournaments, but we'd like to "catch them all" > nonetheless. Personally, I'm hoping for a new gift-set like 10th Ann., > containing reprints of promos... That might be a good idea. I think they took too long to sell out with 10th Anniversary Tins, but only White Wolf will be making that decision to reprint something similar. > Also, why are Blood Doll and Wake in the packs? Granted, they're > amongst the (if not THE) most useful cards in the game, but everyone I > know has plenty of them, I mean, they're hard to miss if you buy a few > starters and boosters. Are these versions different? They are not different. Scott answered the rest of this in his reply.

[ quoted text not captured ] Why aren't you fond of tournaments? What better opportunity to meet some other players and get some new ideas about the game? ;) I think your perception of what tournaments are like is a a bit skewed :) I'm sure you'd have a perfectly fun day, at the very least. Cheers, Bram

On 5 apr, 15:48, "Bram Vink" <jja.v...@hccnet.nl> wrote: > Why aren't you fond of tournaments? Bad experiences. While playing MtG, we came across too many people who weren't that fun or comfortable to be around. And not just at tourneys, at game fairs and stores as well. We found (at least in the places we visited, of course I can't generalize the whole of the card gaming populus) the stereotype of "socially inept game-geek" to be true far too often. Kinda like what was said in that other thread about etiquette: lots of verbal fighting, impatience with people less familiar with the game, shouting, people giving others the impression to be looking down on them by verbal and physical expressions, etc (not too mention some people's BO.. gasp.). Me and my friends are all people who try to win, but never at the expense of having a good time. Meaning, we don't do any psychological warfare, we help others out for sake of keeping the game going (for instance when we see that their game might crumble because of a small oversight), and we deliberately play decks that are not killer-good, but as good as they get while still in the grey area of "fun to play with and against", if you get what I mean. Practically everyone we met back then, played strictly to win through whatever means though, which in MtG terms (of a couple of years back, mind) meant mono-red, blue-white lock, decks packed with 30-dollars-a- piece-power-rares etc. We were never any match for those decks and frankly, people expressed frequence annoyance with us for wasting their time playing less than killer decks, while at the same time we saw no fun in playing against the same decks over and over (and getting a frown and a "tsk" to boot). Another thing was, some of us are female, which was apparently enough reason for lots of guys to act like total idiots and not give people enough personal space, if you get my meaning. So after a while, we decided to just play socially amongst ourselves. Also, when some of us first started learning VTES some years back, we again only played with people who were not able and/or willing to relate to new players and just kicked our asses from the word go instead of trying to help us. This put us off this game entirely, and if it hadn't been for my personal addiction to games with expansion sets and the fact that MtG's change of lay-out and constant rules-changes put us off buying new cards for that game after the Invasion set, we might not have been playing VTES at all now. So, yeah I reckon lots of people out there are cool and we just never met them, but because of our experiences we just got into this attitude where we just want to play amongst ourselves and have fun. I guess in our case, the proverbial rotten apples ruined it for the rest. What better opportunity to meet > some other players and get some new ideas about the game? ;) That's why I frequent this forum! I'm learning lots of things from all of you and passing that knowledge on.. > I think your perception of what tournaments are like is a a bit > skewed :) > Very likely. It's just hard to shake off bad experiences sometimes. > I'm sure you'd have a perfectly fun day, at the very least. > When we get comfortable enough with the rules and flow of the game, we might try and leave our secluded cave behind the waterfall to see if we can find another group of people who we feel comfortable around. We'll see.

"Teeka" <teeka_...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1175784564.894794.326500 @w1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: > On 5 apr, 15:48, "Bram Vink" <jja.v...@hccnet.nl> wrote: >> Why aren't you fond of tournaments? > > Bad experiences. > >snip bad experiences Yeah, in VTES tournaments, the "socially inept geek" is usually the rarity, as social skills help so tremendously much with successful VTES play. Still, there are the few exceptions... You shouldn't let that hinder your group from participation in the wider VTES scene. By and large, they're an incredibly decent and friendly community of people. That said, you know there's nothing keeping you from running a non- sanctioned tournament to your own goals and standards, for your own group. In the past I've done plenty of "odd" things, like offering prizes for sportsmanship, prizes for last place (they need more resources!!), etc. You don't need to be a Prince, and you don't need to be running a sanctioned event to buy, and use, a tourney pack. Regards DZ AW

On 5 apr, 17:16, atomweaver <atomwea...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Yeah, in VTES tournaments, the "socially inept geek" is usually the > rarity, as social skills help so tremendously much with successful VTES > play. That's good to know. Perhaps the bad things in CCG-land are all just MtG's fault, huh? ;) You don't need to be a Prince, and you don't need to > be running a sanctioned event to buy, and use, a tourney pack. > Ahh.. riiiiight! See, that's exactly why I started this thread in the first place. I thought you had to be a Prince. Thanks for clearing that up! (without me actually asking about it.. duh me.) -Teeka

"Teeka" <teeka_...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1175787435.586792.168670 @l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com: > On 5 apr, 17:16, atomweaver <atomwea...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> Yeah, in VTES tournaments, the "socially inept geek" is usually the >> rarity, as social skills help so tremendously much with successful VTES >> play. > > That's good to know. Perhaps the bad things in CCG-land are all just > MtG's fault, huh? ;) > Well, true or not (YuGiOh is probably another bad apple) we all should _never_ hesitate to lay the blame at their feet. ;-) > You don't need to be a Prince, and you don't need to >> be running a sanctioned event to buy, and use, a tourney pack. >> > > Ahh.. riiiiight! See, that's exactly why I started this thread in the > first place. I thought you had to be a Prince. Thanks for clearing > that up! (without me actually asking about it.. duh me.) > No problem... DZ AW

On 5 apr, 16:49, "Teeka" <teeka_dra...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On 5 apr, 15:48, "Bram Vink" <jja.v...@hccnet.nl> wrote: > > > Why aren't you fond of tournaments? > > Bad experiences. > > While playing MtG, we came across too many people who weren't that fun > or comfortable to be around. And not just at tourneys, at game fairs > and stores as well. I agree. There's definately sometimes people on game fairs, and, true enough, also in games stores sometimes, that I dont want to be around. Luck has it no dutch vtes players qualify for that ;) > We found (at least in the places we visited, of course I can't > generalize the whole of the card gaming populus) the stereotype of > "socially inept game-geek" to be true far too often. Kinda like what > was said in that other thread about etiquette: lots of verbal > fighting, impatience with people less familiar with the game, > shouting, people giving others the impression to be looking down on > them by verbal and physical expressions, etc (not too mention some > people's BO.. gasp.). There's no shouting, etiquette problems, BO problems as far as I know. There might be deals made, etc. that are less fun for some players, I think that's inescapable in competetive v:tes. > Me and my friends are all people who try to win, but never at the > expense of having a good time. That's a given ;) > Meaning, we don't do any psychological > warfare, we help others out for sake of keeping the game going (for > instance when we see that their game might crumble because of a small > oversight), and we deliberately play decks that are not killer-good, > but as good as they get while still in the grey area of "fun to play > with and against", if you get what I mean. I get what you mean, mostly I try to build my decks as good as possible, but if a game becomes solitaire, that's just boring. I dont think, however, that a deck that's very good, is per definition boring ;) > Practically everyone we met back then, played strictly to win through > whatever means though, which in MtG terms (of a couple of years back, > mind) meant mono-red, blue-white lock, decks packed with 30-dollars-a- > piece-power-rares etc. We were never any match for those decks and > frankly, people expressed frequence annoyance with us for wasting > their time playing less than killer decks, while at the same time we > saw no fun in playing against the same decks over and over (and > getting a frown and a "tsk" to boot). This isn't an issue in v:tes, really. Also, there's no frowning/tsking unless you truly bring a deck which doesnt intend to win games. A looong time ago, for instance, there were two people who had brought decks which featured aroundabout 40 bleed reduction/redirection cards, with no intention of winning the game. If you end up preying on such a deck that basically spoils your fun, so that could get a frown, but you're free to play whatever you like, and there's definately people showing up with just fun decks. > Another thing was, some of us are female, which was apparently enough > reason for lots of guys to act like total idiots and not give people > enough personal space, if you get my meaning. As far as I know most utrecht based players are in relationships ;) I wouldnt know about the other players, but I'm pretty sure that won't be a problem. > So after a while, we decided to just play socially amongst ourselves. So would I when faced with such tournaments ;) > Also, when some of us first started learning VTES some years back, we > again only played with people who were not able and/or willing to > relate to new players and just kicked our asses from the word go > instead of trying to help us. Who'd you play with? ;) > This put us off this game entirely, and if it hadn't been for my > personal addiction to games with expansion sets and the fact that > MtG's change of lay-out and constant rules-changes put us off buying > new cards for that game after the Invasion set, we might not have been > playing VTES at all now. Sounds like a pity. I think we take pretty good care of our newer players, deck advice, and so on. However, on a tournament everyone will be playing to win, of course. ;) > So, yeah I reckon lots of people out there are cool and we just never > met them, but because of our experiences we just got into this > attitude where we just want to play amongst ourselves and have fun. I > guess in our case, the proverbial rotten apples ruined it for the > rest. I'm fairly sure there's not a single antisocial reject dutch player ;) > What better opportunity to meet > > > some other players and get some new ideas about the game? ;) > > That's why I frequent this forum! I'm learning lots of things from all > of you and passing that knowledge on.. Good plan. Since I have to selfpromote, ill point you to an piece archived by thelasombra on deckbuilding I wrote: http://www.thelasombra.com/deckbuilding-by-bram-vink.txt A notable addition there: The combat there should do those things with 3 cards per combo or fewer. > > I think your perception of what tournaments are like is a a bit > > skewed :) > > Very likely. It's just hard to shake off bad experiences sometimes. That's a pity. > > I'm sure you'd have a perfectly fun day, at the very least. > > When we get comfortable enough with the rules and flow of the game, we > might try and leave our secluded cave behind the waterfall to see if > we can find another group of people who we feel comfortable around. > We'll see. Sounds like a good idea. I remember playing in my first tournament and spending weeks with my friends preparing decks and tuning them ;) I enjoyed that. ;) None of the things you mention are any problem whatsoever concerning the dutch players, at least. ;) There's no socially inept geeks in it, as far as I know, anyway. And there's good and not so good players participating. As long as you bring a deck which is built with the intention of having fun and trying to win, I'm sure noone will whine about it. Cheers and hope to see you around someday, Bram

On Apr 4, 6:23 am, "Teeka" <teeka_dra...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Also, why are Blood Doll and Wake in the packs? Granted, they're > amongst the (if not THE) most useful cards in the game, but everyone I > know has plenty of them, I mean, they're hard to miss if you buy a few > starters and boosters. Are these versions different? > I for one love the fact that Blood Doll and Wake are in the kit. I like to make many decks from crap/funny to competitive/tournament in nature. So after so many decks I run out of those staple cards.

Teeka <teeka_...@hotmail.com> wrote: > I was wondering, are the contents of a tournament pack (or kit?) > always the same, or are they randomly sorted like boosters, or are > there perhaps different versions available? [snip rest of msg] Oscar, this question gets asked so often that perhaps it is time to create a link from white-wolf.com/vtes (perhaps under *Event Information*) with the contents of the current Tournament Kits, updated by you when they change? That way, you can just point someone towards it every time they ask this same question. :) Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier

On 7 apr, 03:09, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: That way, you can just point someone towards it every time they > ask this same question. :) FYI, I did a search on this on this forum as well as the WW site before asking. Just so you know I don't just ask some type of "that same question" if I can look it up.

[ quoted text not captured ] Hmm, sorry if that last comment came off as rude, I just meant to say I really tried to get an answer by myself first. Anyway, thanks again for everyone's replies and also for Bram's kind words of welcome. I just got a tournament pack from a store and we're all very happy with the promo's, as well as the extra Wakes and Blood Dolls (good point about needing lots of them if you build more than one deck). We'll be doing our own my-first-little-tourney soon. Should be fun now, Botched Move is ultra strong in our current limited collections/precon-environment... :) -Teeka, off to build his first Blood Brothers deck

On 9 apr, 16:58, "Teeka" <teeka_dra...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On 8 apr, 11:23, "Teeka" <teeka_dra...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > On 7 apr, 03:09, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: > > That way, you can just point someone towards it every time they > > > > ask this same question. :) > > > FYI, I did a search on this on this forum as well as the WW site > > before asking. Just so you know I don't just ask some type of "that > > same question" if I can look it up. > > Hmm, sorry if that last comment came off as rude, I just meant to say > I really tried to get an answer by myself first. I think that was clear ;) > Anyway, thanks again for everyone's replies and also for Bram's kind > words of welcome. I just got a tournament pack from a store and we're > all very happy with the promo's, as well as the extra Wakes and Blood > Dolls (good point about needing lots of them if you build more than > one deck). We'll be doing our own my-first-little-tourney soon. Should > be fun now, Botched Move is ultra strong in our current limited > collections/precon-environment... :) I'd love to visit and participate if you'd have room and predilection towards allowing visitors ;) Or just meet you people and judge for you at the cost of lunch ;) > -Teeka, off to build his first Blood Brothers deck Good luck with that ;) Cheers, Bram (bram...@firstfourlettersofphilosophy.uu.nl)