-
Superior Disguised Weapon is also "usable when choosing a strike". I
always assumed that "when" means "just before" in this context, but could
it also mean "just after"?
Example: During her strike phase, Lucretia has a DW in her hand, but no
weapon. She plays Undead Strength, and replaces it. The next card is a
weapon. Can she now equip with that weapon?
-
Suppose Lucretia "chose" her strike earlier during the Maneuver Phase by
playing Aid from Bats. Does she play DW during the "choose strike" phase,
or during the maneuver phase at the same time as she played Aid from Bats.
-
Can she burn DW to equip with a Zip Gun?
(This is not completely irrelevant, as I have always used Zip Guns in my
DW decks as a precaution against DW hand jam. I know that Zip Gun is not
considered "equipment" until brought into play (by card text), but its
status as a "weapon" card seems pretty unambiguous, as evidenced by the
words "Weapon: Gun" in bold print at the top of the card.)
--
Lupus Australis
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__\ __ /__
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In article <slrn6isp2c....@amanda.dorsai.org>,
John Whelan <jbwh...@dorsai.org> wrote:
>Superior Disguised Weapon is also "usable when choosing a strike". I
>always assumed that "when" means "just before" in this context, but could
>it also mean "just after"?
I don't believe so (see below examples)
>Example: During her strike phase, Lucretia has a DW in her hand, but no
>weapon. She plays Undead Strength, and replaces it. The next card is a
>weapon. Can she now equip with that weapon?
Having already chosen a strike (Undead Strength), she is no longer 'choosing
a strike,' hence cannot play DW.
>Suppose Lucretia "chose" her strike earlier during the Maneuver Phase by
>playing Aid from Bats. Does she play DW during the "choose strike" phase,
>or during the maneuver phase at the same time as she played Aid from Bats.
Having committed herself to choosing a particular strike during the Maneuver
phase (Aid from Bats), she may choose no other. Since DW doesn't force
you to strike with the DW'd weapon, it could be argued that it could
be used in this instance. But it's pretty murky. LSJ, doubtless, will
enlighten us.
>Can she burn DW to equip with a Zip Gun?
>(This is not completely irrelevant, as I have always used Zip Guns in my
>DW decks as a precaution against DW hand jam. I know that Zip Gun is not
>considered "equipment" until brought into play (by card text), but its
>status as a "weapon" card seems pretty unambiguous, as evidenced by the
>words "Weapon: Gun" in bold print at the top of the card.)
Well, you couldn't use superior (as it's prohibited by Zip Gun's card text),
and it's murky as to whether you could use the inferior, as it says to
'equip' the vampire with the weapon, and one cannot 'equip' the zip gun
(i.e., take the 'equip' action to bring it into play). But that could be
hairsplitting.
LSJ?
gomi
--
kono sora wo daite kagayaku,
shounen yo shinwa ni nare.
In article <6gn6ca$dho$1...@shell3.ba.best.com>, Gomi no Sensei wrote:
>John Whelan <jbwh...@dorsai.org> wrote:
>>>Superior Disguised Weapon is also "usable when choosing a strike". I
>>always assumed that "when" means "just before" in this context, but could
>>it also mean "just after"?>
>I don't believe so (see below examples)
>>>Example: During her strike phase, Lucretia has a DW in her hand, but no
>>weapon. She plays Undead Strength, and replaces it. The next card is a
>>weapon. Can she now equip with that weapon?>
>Having already chosen a strike (Undead Strength), she is no longer 'choosing
>a strike,' hence cannot play DW.
"When", in normal English and in Jyhad, is often used to mean "right
after" or "in immediate response to". Thus, due to the vagueness of the
term, your logic does not hold. A clarification is needed.
>>Suppose Lucretia "chose" her strike earlier during the Maneuver Phase by
>>playing Aid from Bats. Does she play DW during the "choose strike" phase,
>>or during the maneuver phase at the same time as she played Aid from Bats.>
>Having committed herself to choosing a particular strike during the Maneuver
>phase (Aid from Bats), she may choose no other. Since DW doesn't force
>you to strike with the DW'd weapon, it could be argued that it could
>be used in this instance. But it's pretty murky. LSJ, doubtless, will
>enlighten us.
>>>Can she burn DW to equip with a Zip Gun?
>>(This is not completely irrelevant, as I have always used Zip Guns in my
>>DW decks as a precaution against DW hand jam. I know that Zip Gun is not
>>considered "equipment" until brought into play (by card text), but its
>>status as a "weapon" card seems pretty unambiguous, as evidenced by the
>>words "Weapon: Gun" in bold print at the top of the card.)>
>Well, you couldn't use superior (as it's prohibited by Zip Gun's card text),
That does not seem very relevant. Zip Guns card text was intended to
enable, not to restrict. It would not contradict what another card
enabled you to do.
>and it's murky as to whether you could use the inferior, as it says to
>'equip' the vampire with the weapon, and one cannot 'equip' the zip gun
>(i.e., take the 'equip' action to bring it into play). But that could be
>hairsplitting.
Ah. That's the catch, I suspect. One can only equip with equipment, and
Zip Gun is not equipment until in play.
However, such logic should have no effect on Arms Dealer's special action,
since the concept of equipping or equipment is in no way involved. One is
only required to find a weapon, and it would seem that Zip Gun clearly
qualifies.
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <slrn6iv2ji....@amanda.dorsai.org>,
John Whelan <jbwh...@dorsai.org> wrote:
>In article <6gn6ca$dho$1...@shell3.ba.best.com>, Gomi no Sensei wrote:>>John Whelan <jbwh...@dorsai.org> wrote:>>>Superior Disguised Weapon is also "usable when choosing a strike". I
>>>always assumed that "when" means "just before" in this context, but could
>>>it also mean "just after"?>>>Example: During her strike phase, Lucretia has a DW in her hand, but no>>>weapon. She plays Undead Strength, and replaces it. The next card is a
>>>weapon. Can she now equip with that weapon?>>Having already chosen a strike (Undead Strength), she is no longer 'choosing
>>a strike,' hence cannot play DW.>"When", in normal English and in Jyhad, is often used to mean "right
>after" or "in immediate response to". Thus, due to the vagueness of the
>term, your logic does not hold. A clarification is needed.
I feel that the critical term here is not 'when,' but 'choosing,' i.e.,
that it adds the option of striking with the DW'd weapon to your other legal
strike options. After a strike has been chosen, you are no longer 'choosing'
a strike -- indeed, it could be argued that the 'choose strike' phase ends
(as far as this minion is involved) once the strike is declared.
>>>Can she burn DW to equip with a Zip Gun?
>>>(This is not completely irrelevant, as I have always used Zip Guns in my
>>>DW decks as a precaution against DW hand jam. I know that Zip Gun is not
>>>considered "equipment" until brought into play (by card text), but its
>>>status as a "weapon" card seems pretty unambiguous, as evidenced by the
>>>words "Weapon: Gun" in bold print at the top of the card.)>>Well, you couldn't use superior (as it's prohibited by Zip Gun's card text),>That does not seem very relevant. Zip Guns card text was intended to
>enable, not to restrict. It would not contradict what another card
>enabled you to do.
Intent, as supported by several errata and rulings, is irrelevant. Zip Gun
may only be brought into play at the beginning of a round. Arguing intent
is much like using the picture on a card to support a particular
interpretation; all we can really go by is the card text.
>>and it's murky as to whether you could use the inferior, as it says to
>>'equip' the vampire with the weapon, and one cannot 'equip' the zip gun
>>(i.e., take the 'equip' action to bring it into play). But that could be
>>hairsplitting.>Ah. That's the catch, I suspect. One can only equip with equipment, and
>Zip Gun is not equipment until in play.>However, such logic should have no effect on Arms Dealer's special action,
>since the concept of equipping or equipment is in no way involved. One is
>only required to find a weapon, and it would seem that Zip Gun clearly
>qualifies.
Certainly seems that way to me.
[ quoted text not captured ]
> However, such logic should have no effect on Arms Dealer's special action,
> since the concept of equipping or equipment is in no way involved. One is
> only required to find a weapon, and it would seem that Zip Gun clearly
> qualifies.
>
I have played an arms dealer/zip gun DBR deck before and If I recall correctly you cannot search for zip guns using the Arm's Dealers ability. The rational that was used to explain why to me was that until actually in play, the zip gun is a combat card, while weapons in your deck are weapons in play or not. Only when it is in play does it aquire the characteristics of "Weapon, Gun".
Karl
LSJ????
In article <6gol62$dfl$1...@shell3.ba.best.com>, Gomi no Sensei
<go...@best.com> writes
>>>and it's murky as to whether you could use the inferior, as it says to
>>>'equip' the vampire with the weapon, and one cannot 'equip' the zip gun
>>>(i.e., take the 'equip' action to bring it into play). But that could be
>>>hairsplitting.>>>Ah. That's the catch, I suspect. One can only equip with equipment, and
>>Zip Gun is not equipment until in play.>>>However, such logic should have no effect on Arms Dealer's special action,
>>since the concept of equipping or equipment is in no way involved. One is
>>only required to find a weapon, and it would seem that Zip Gun clearly
>>qualifies.>>Certainly seems that way to me.
Ermm.. unfortunately not.
Zip Gun - Combat
* Is not a weapon except when it is in play.
[LSJ 980303]
--
James Coupe (Prince of Mercia) Change nospam to obeah to reply
Vampire: Elder Kindred Network
madnessnetwork.hexagon.net
John Whelan wrote:
>
> -> Superior Disguised Weapon is also "usable when choosing a strike". I
> always assumed that "when" means "just before" in this context, but could
> it also mean "just after"?
No. "When choosing" means "when choosing", and does not include "when
having chosen".
> Example: During her strike phase, Lucretia has a DW in her hand, but no
> weapon. She plays Undead Strength, and replaces it. The next card is a
> weapon. Can she now equip with that weapon?
No.
> -
>
> Suppose Lucretia "choses" her strike earlier during the Maneuver Phase by> playing Aid from Bats. Does she play DW during the "choose strike" phase,
> or during the maneuver phase at the same time as she played Aid from Bats.
She will be forced to use "Aid From Bats" as her strike when the time
comes to choose it, so the choice has already been made - there is
not time to play DW between the time that Lucretia begins her "choose
strike" phase and the time her strike is chosen, since the choice has
already been made. So she cannot play DW at all.
Much like not being able to play "during a political action" cards
during votes which pass automatically (by Cryptic Rider, etc.)
And like not being able to "interrupt" the pre-arranged damage from
Weather Control during the "before range" step of a round.
> ->
> Can she burn DW to equip with a Zip Gun?
> (This is not completely irrelevant, as I have always used Zip Guns in my
> DW decks as a precaution against DW hand jam. I know that Zip Gun is not
> considered "equipment" until brought into play (by card text), but its
> status as a "weapon" card seems pretty unambiguous, as evidenced by the
> words "Weapon: Gun" in bold print at the top of the card.)
All guns are weapons, and all weapons are equipment.
If it is not equipment, then it is not a Weapon nor a gun.
So "no".
--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com)
Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
(*) - Subject to review by Rules Team