[LSJ] Repulsion (at advanced)

At the Phoenix storyline tournament, there was some discrepancy as to the usability of the action mod Repulsion at the advanced level of Obeah. The online clarifications/rulings indicate that at the advanced level, the card can be used even if the stealth is not yet needed (say for example while doing an action as simple as hunting): Quote: >The superior Obeah effect can be used even if the stealth is not currently >needed. [LSJ 20011214] While we certainly abided by the ruling for game play, everyone was very curious as to why the card had been ruled that way (there were cries of "broken! broken!" as it was played). So, uh, why? I ask this mostly since it makes it an exceptionally powerful effect for no blood or pool cost, and because it's an effect that get's tacked on regardless of whether or not the action itself it modifies gets blocked, it gives no opportunity for other methuselahs to prevent the minion from using and therefore obtaining it (short of a Direct Intervention). Indeed off the top of my head, it seems like all other effects in the game that give permanent or semi-permanent +1 Stealth (like Erebus Mask or Ex Nihilo) require actions to obtain, and as such are blockable/preventable effects. Or, was this card meant to be an action card at the advanced level? Thanks in advance! Matthew Scrivner Anarch of the Sonoran Desert

Ped Xing wrote: > >The superior Obeah effect can be used even if the stealth is not > currently > >needed. [LSJ 20011214] > > While we certainly abided by the ruling for game play, everyone was > very curious as to why the card had been ruled that way (there were > cries of "broken! broken!" as it was played). So, uh, why? No prohibition. The stealth comes from the card being in play, not from the play of the card. The same logic allows a Sport Bike or a Psychic Projection to be played -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ wrote: > > Ped Xing wrote: > > >The superior Obeah effect can be used even if the stealth is not > > >currently needed. [LSJ 20011214] > > > > While we certainly abided by the ruling for game play, everyone was > > very curious as to why the card had been ruled that way (there were > > cries of "broken! broken!" as it was played). So, uh, why? > > No prohibition. > The stealth comes from the card being in play, not from the play of the card. > The same logic allows a Sport Bike or a Psychic Projection to be played I think I understand. There is a difference between Repulsion and both Sport Bike and Psychic Projection which is relevant, however - and I think it's exactly the point that we found confusing about it: Sport Bike and Psychic Projection are permanents put in play by taking actions, which by itself is a cost (tapping a minion, risking interception and debilitating combat, etc.) even if no other costs are placed on the card. Repulsion (at superior) is unique in that it seems to be a permanent put into play at absolutely no cost (outside of the opportunity cost of a card slot in your deck) at the point in play when you're contending between the acting minion's stealth and the reacting minion's intercept to determine if the action can be blocked. This is the point that is governed by the rule that prohibits unnecessary stealth and intercept from being played. So it wasn't clear if this card should be treated differently from other sources of stealth at that particular moment, just because it turns into a permanent. A ruling is a ruling, of course. And that's fine. I just wanted to draw your attention to the point that the ability to play a permanent at that moment is unaffected by the unneeded stealth (or intercept) rule that governs the play of transient card effects at that moment is one that's never been tested before (as far as I know). That's why we were curious about the ruling. Fred

Frederick Scott wrote: > I think I understand. There is a difference between Repulsion and both Sport > Bike and Psychic Projection which is relevant, however - and I think it's > exactly the point that we found confusing about it: Sport Bike and Psychic > Projection are permanents put in play by taking actions, which by itself is > a cost (tapping a minion, risking interception and debilitating combat, etc.) > even if no other costs are placed on the card. Repulsion (at superior) is > unique in that it seems to be a permanent put into play at absolutely no > cost (outside of the opportunity cost of a card slot in your deck) at the > point in play when you're contending between the acting minion's stealth and > the reacting minion's intercept to determine if the action can be blocked. > This is the point that is governed by the rule that prohibits unnecessary > stealth and intercept from being played. So it wasn't clear if this card > should be treated differently from other sources of stealth at that > particular moment, just because it turns into a permanent. > > A ruling is a ruling, of course. And that's fine. I just wanted to draw > your attention to the point that the ability to play a permanent at that > moment is unaffected by the unneeded stealth (or intercept) rule that > governs the play of transient card effects at that moment is one that's > never been tested before (as far as I know). That's why we were curious > about the ruling. Sins of the Cauchemar is a reaction card played similarly to give intercept. It can be played even if the intercept is not needed. [ quoted text not captured ]