actually this didn't happen in a v:ekn tournament but in our monthly league.
still i'd like to know how this situation would be handled in a v:ekn
tournament:
4 player table with players A, B, C; and D.
player A threatens player C. he tells him to leave, otherwise he will beat
him.
player C ousts himself, giving player B a victory point and 6 pool, thus
making the situation very bad for player D.
game ends with 1 VP for player D and 3 VP fpr player B.
now the problem:
player C had good chances of ousting D.
player D had good chances of ousting B as well as A if B hadn't gotten his
VP and 6 pool so easily.
how do i solve this problem VPwise?
A didn't get any VP so there is nothing i can take from him.
but C and also B were treated unfairly concerning the VP.
of course some action needs to be taken against A because he threatened
another player. in a tournament he will most probably be sent home. in a
league maybe expelled.
but still the problem with the tournament / league standings remains.
thanks for any help
pallando
In message <9jblt8$to6$1...@bird.wu-wien.ac.at>, pallando <pall...@gmx.at>
writes
>of course some action needs to be taken against A because he threatened
>another player. in a tournament he will most probably be sent home. in a
>league maybe expelled.
I would also issue a permanent Warning.
--
James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D
"Surely somewhere out there there's a woman who's EBD690ECD7A1F
been sodomized by her father and is capable of B457CA213D7E6
composing a few coherent sentences on the subject." 68C3695D623D5D
"pallando" <pall...@gmx.at> wrote
>
> player A threatens player C. he tells him to leave, otherwise he will beat
> him.
>
...
> how do i solve this problem VPwise?
> A didn't get any VP so there is nothing i can take from him.
> but C and also B were treated unfairly concerning the VP.
>
> of course some action needs to be taken against A because he threatened
> another player. in a tournament he will most probably be sent home. in a
> league maybe expelled.
If this were to happen in a DCI Magic tournament, the
player would be immediately ejected (I don't know how
that would work in a 4-player game), and the player would
likely be banned from sanctioned events for
at least 3 months, probably much, much longer.
Yes, I know this isn't Magic, but the people over there
have put quite a lot of thought, trial, and error into
how to properly conduct a tournament environment, so
their solutions can be informative, if not instructive.
Did the judge know of the threat during the game,
or only afterward? When you say C self-ousted,
do you mean he got up and left due to the threat?
- Jason Bell
"pallando" <pall...@gmx.at>
> player A threatens player C. he tells him to leave, otherwise he will beat
> him.
player A is an asshole then...
> player C ousts himself, giving player B a victory point and 6 pool, thus
> making the situation very bad for player D.> now the problem:
> player C had good chances of ousting D.
Player C is an asshole then. why did he oust himself if he had chances to
sweep the table AND showing player A that his threats just suck ?
> player D had good chances of ousting B as well as A if B hadn't gotten his
> VP and 6 pool so easily.
>
> how do i solve this problem VPwise?
VP wise, hell i have no idea. But street wise, i'll say : "stop playing with
assholes"....
reyda
In message <9jcrcr$fq0$1...@neon.noos.net>, Reyda <re...@noos.fr> writes
>> player C ousts himself, giving player B a victory point and 6 pool, thus
>> making the situation very bad for player D.
>> now the problem:
>> player C had good chances of ousting D.>
>Player C is an asshole then. why did he oust himself if he had chances to
>sweep the table AND showing player A that his threats just suck ?
Because he wanted to leave rather than get beaten up?
[ quoted text not captured ]
"pallando" <pall...@gmx.at> wrote
> player A threatens player C. he tells him to leave, otherwise he will beat
> him.
Could you expand on this? Do you mean that one player actually *physically
threatened* another player? There must be more to it than that...
In the case that he did actually physically threaten another player, I'd
probably try to arrange a meeting with all the local players and decide by
consensus whether the threatening player should be invited back...
*irregardless* of tournaments.
If it were a case of the usual Machiavellian threats that pass around a
Jyhad table, no problem... as long as both players recognize that it's
'role-playing' or what-have-you. Personally, any game where I do not feel
comfortable shaking the hands of the players at my table, I would rather
*leave*... and on the odd occasion I have (though not often).
Cheers,
WES
"Jason Bell" <Jason...@mail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:4qk67.192560$Md.42...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
>
>
> If this were to happen in a DCI Magic tournament, the
> player would be immediately ejected (I don't know how
> that would work in a 4-player game), and the player would
> likely be banned from sanctioned events for
> at least 3 months, probably much, much longer.
>
> Yes, I know this isn't Magic, but the people over there
> have put quite a lot of thought, trial, and error into
> how to properly conduct a tournament environment, so
> their solutions can be informative, if not instructive.
>
> Did the judge know of the threat during the game,
> or only afterward? When you say C self-ousted,
> do you mean he got up and left due to the threat?
>
> - Jason Bell
>
thanks for your comments.
i was the judge and unfortunately i didn't know of the threat during the
game.
player c influenced new vampires and tapped out so he would be killed the
next turn.
pallando
"Wes" <gh...@NOSPAMmnsi.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:9jcq8...@enews3.newsguy.com...
>
> Could you expand on this? Do you mean that one player actually *physically
> threatened* another player? There must be more to it than that...
yes, one player actually phisically threatened another. i was really
surprised that something like this could happen.
> In the case that he did actually physically threaten another player, I'd
> probably try to arrange a meeting with all the local players and decide by
> consensus whether the threatening player should be invited back...
> *irregardless* of tournaments.
that's we will do next week anyway.
pallando
"James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:v7dLjskNJfW7Ewy$@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk...
> >
> >Player C is an asshole then. why did he oust himself if he had chances to
> >sweep the table AND showing player A that his threats just suck ?
>
> Because he wanted to leave rather than get beaten up?
>
correct. this was the only reason.
pallando
"pallando" <pall...@gmx.at> wrote:
>"Wes" <gh...@NOSPAMmnsi.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>news:9jcq8...@enews3.newsguy.com...>>
>> Could you expand on this? Do you mean that one player actually *physically
>> threatened* another player? There must be more to it than that...>
>yes, one player actually phisically threatened another. i was really
>surprised that something like this could happen.
This is unsportsmanlike in the extreme and possibly grounds for legal
action.
Ejection from the tournament would be the minimum penalty for this conduct.
[V:EKN Penalty Guidelines 153]
The infraction should certainly be included in the tournament report
submitted to WW.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
------------------------------------------------------------
Get your FREE web-based e-mail and newsgroup access at:
http://MailAndNews.com
"LSJ" <vte...@MailAndNews.com> wrote
>
> This is unsportsmanlike in the extreme and possibly grounds for legal
> action.
> Ejection from the tournament would be the minimum penalty for this
conduct.
> [V:EKN Penalty Guidelines 153]
> The infraction should certainly be included in the tournament report
> submitted to WW.
No offense, but in this case... fuck the game. This is *way* beyond bad
sportsmanship.
I'd tell the guy to get lost and if he shows up again, I wouldn't
acknowledge him.
I realize there is rarely a person who can really speak for the rest of the
group, even the so-called 'prince', but the players of your group need to
decide whether they collectively want to condone this behaviour. Presumably,
*you* don't, but considering that two other players apparently had no
problem with it... Frankly, I'm surprised they even finished the game.
Is this guy known for this kind of behaviour? Did he make any attempt to
explain why he did this? Was there any type of settlement after? I'm just
stunned that this kind of shit could even happen. He wouldn't get away with
it here, that's for sure.
Cheers,
WES
In message <9jdik...@enews4.newsguy.com>, Wes <gh...@NOSPAMmnsi.net>
writes
>No offense, but in this case... fuck the game. This is *way* beyond bad
>sportsmanship.
Certainly.
But in purely practical terms, the tournament shouldn't be fucked up for
the *other* players and so the judge should be able to sort out who got
what VP-wise, penalty wise etc.
[ quoted text not captured ]
"pallando" <pall...@gmx.at> a écrit dans le message news:
9jd98n$bpd$1...@bird.wu-wien.ac.at...
[ quoted text not captured ]
People do actually use physical threats to win games ??!
Next tournament i'll put steel detecting devices in the entrance of the game
room... Just in case someone brings a gun or a knife...
Now, a little more seriously, why did the threatened guy didn't go to the
ref as soon as he heard the threats ? why didn't he talk about that with the
others ? I'm sure the bullying guy would be far less confident with 5 people
protecting his target... Bullyiers rely on secrecy : if no one knows, they
can continue their bad influence over weaker people. Gang against him. Push
him out of your playground. He is not welcome. Wome on, you can do it ! i'm
a small guy (less than 1m 60) but i never let anyone bully me ! show him
he's not the boss with his size and fists ! brain and social skills matter
too ;) when his behaviour will be known, he'll become universally despised,
then you'll have no problem to put him aside, away from your playgroup. Just
gather all your players and talk together about that.
reyda
Wes wrote:
> I realize there is rarely a person who can really speak for the
> rest of the group, even the so-called 'prince',
Heh. That never stopped any of us from throwing our weight around.
> He wouldn't get away with it here, that's for sure.
Shit. In Detroit, threatening someone with a fight is the quickest way
to find one. If I can successfully handle some road rage jackass, I can
certainly handle a card geek.
Noal
lsj wrote:
"> This is unsportsmanlike in the extreme and possibly grounds for legal
> action.
> Ejection from the tournament would be the minimum penalty for this
conduct.
> [V:EKN Penalty Guidelines 153]
were can i find these guidelines? i believe i found nothing in hte
tournament rules.
> The infraction should certainly be included in the tournament report
> submitted to WW.
as i pointed out in hte initial posting this was not a v:ekn tournament. i
just wanted to know how the v:ekn would handle something like this.
pallando
On Sun, 22 Jul 2001 11:31:26 -0400, Noal McDonald
<dhar...@none-of-your-fscking-business.com> wrote:
>Wes wrote:>> I realize there is rarely a person who can really speak for the
>> rest of the group, even the so-called 'prince',>
>Heh. That never stopped any of us from throwing our weight around.
Our Prince is the quietest of us all. =)
>> He wouldn't get away with it here, that's for sure.>
>Shit. In Detroit, threatening someone with a fight is the quickest way
>to find one. If I can successfully handle some road rage jackass, I can
>certainly handle a card geek.
*snort* I'll have to back that one up. As Northernized as it's
becoming, Atlanta is still the South, and there are an awful lot of
Confederate flags, Budweiser, and NASCAR emblems around. Suffice it
to say that anyone foolish enough to threaten to kick someone's ass in
this city had damn well better be prepared to do it... good ole boys
don't talk much, they just swing.
And as far as the situation is concerned, I would be inclined to evict
player "A" from both the tournament AND the building, and suggest that
he not ever return. It's one thing to joke around about it, but to
actually CONVINCE someone that he was serious? That's amazing. I'm
not sure I could EVER take someone seriously in that situation until
they actually took a poke at me. I can only imagine what he must've
sounded like.
-- Derek
do you have stairs in your house?
"Derek Ray" <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote
> And as far as the situation is concerned, I would be inclined to evict
> player "A" from both the tournament AND the building, and suggest that
> he not ever return. It's one thing to joke around about it, but to
> actually CONVINCE someone that he was serious? That's amazing. I'm
> not sure I could EVER take someone seriously in that situation until
> they actually took a poke at me. I can only imagine what he must've
> sounded like.
Suffice to say that there must have been a reason that 'A' behaved in this
way... I doubt the reason would ever be sufficient that I would respect it,
but I'm sure there's a lot more to this than simply 'A threatens C'.
Hell, I've threatened to break Aaron's legs every time he sits down at the
same Jyhad table with me, but anyone that knows Aaron will surely forgive me
for that.
Our group is always insulting, criticizing and threatening one another but I
doubt any of us would ever take it seriously. As the only Canadian in a
playgroup of Americans, you can understand how hard this is for me. If it
wasn't bad enough trying to 'dumb down' everything into terms they can
understand... sigh.
Cheers,
WES
P.S. If you never see me post again, the Detroit murder rate probably just
increased again.
Wes wrote:
>
> "Derek Ray" <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> > And as far as the situation is concerned, I would be inclined to evict
> > player "A" from both the tournament AND the building, and suggest that
> > he not ever return. It's one thing to joke around about it, but to
> > actually CONVINCE someone that he was serious? That's amazing. I'm
> > not sure I could EVER take someone seriously in that situation until
> > they actually took a poke at me. I can only imagine what he must've
> > sounded like.
>
> Suffice to say that there must have been a reason that 'A' behaved in this
> way... I doubt the reason would ever be sufficient that I would respect it,
> but I'm sure there's a lot more to this than simply 'A threatens C'.
>
> Hell, I've threatened to break Aaron's legs every time he sits down at the
> same Jyhad table with me, but anyone that knows Aaron will surely forgive me
> for that.
...which begs the question of how serious this person was when he "threatened"
the other player. Some people will loosely talk about stuff like that assuming
everyone realizes they are just expressing their frustration, not truly
attempting to bodily threaten someone. That can be misinterpreted.
Fred
>===== Original Message From "pallando" <pall...@gmx.at> =====>lsj wrote:
>"> This is unsportsmanlike in the extreme and possibly grounds for legal>> action.
>> Ejection from the tournament would be the minimum penalty for this>conduct.>> [V:EKN Penalty Guidelines 153]>
>were can i find these guidelines? i believe i found nothing in hte
>tournament rules.
There's a link to them at the top of the V:EKN tournament rules.
>> The infraction should certainly be included in the tournament report
>> submitted to WW.>
>as i pointed out in hte initial posting this was not a v:ekn tournament. i
>just wanted to know how the v:ekn would handle something like this.
Ah. Sorry I missed that point - the other point must've taken me too
much by surprise. :-)
[ quoted text not captured ]
Frederick Scott <fre...@netcom.com> wrote in message news:<3B5B5AF5...@netcom.com>...
[ quoted text not captured ]
A didn't *talk* he was furiously shouting. He called C names and told
him to piss off or get a bloody nose. C offered an apology (for
something that had happened during the game), but A only said he
didn't want an apology, he only wanted A to get lost for good.
Of course, A actually provoked C's reaction, but that doesn't justify
C's outburst. It really was on the verge of becoming a fight.
>A didn't *talk* he was furiously shouting. He called C names and told
>him to piss off or get a bloody nose. C offered an apology (for
>something that had happened during the game), but A only said he
>didn't want an apology, he only wanted A to get lost for good.
>Of course, A actually provoked C's reaction, but that doesn't justify
>C's outburst. It really was on the verge of becoming a fight.
Are you getting your ABC's mixed up again Carl? =)
"but A only said he didn't want an apology, he only wanted *C* to get lost for
good.
Of course, *C* actually provoked *A*'s reaction, but that doesn't justify
*A*'s outburst. It really was on the verge of becoming a fight."
Right? =)
Halcyan 2
"Wes" <gh...@NOSPAMmnsi.net> wrote in message
news:9jfft...@enews2.newsguy.com...
>
> "Derek Ray" <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote>
> Hell, I've threatened to break Aaron's legs every time he sits down at the
> same Jyhad table with me, but anyone that knows Aaron will surely forgive
me
> for that.
Sure. I realize that it must be tough playing with people as good as me. I
forgive you RL threats for your easy VP's. =)
Actually it's probably all those wierd cross table actions against you, that
you don't like.
Aaron.
"Derek Ray" <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c72mltckgb0ndtt0g...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 22 Jul 2001 11:31:26 -0400, Noal McDonald
> <dhar...@none-of-your-fscking-business.com> wrote:
>
> >Wes wrote:
> >> I realize there is rarely a person who can really speak for the
> >> rest of the group, even the so-called 'prince',
> >
> >Heh. That never stopped any of us from throwing our weight around.
>
> Our Prince is the quietest of us all. =)
>
> >> He wouldn't get away with it here, that's for sure.
> >
> >Shit. In Detroit, threatening someone with a fight is the quickest way
> >to find one. If I can successfully handle some road rage jackass, I can
> >certainly handle a card geek.
>> *snort* I'll have to back that one up. As Northernized as it's
> becoming, Atlanta is still the South, and there are an awful lot of
> Confederate flags, Budweiser, and NASCAR emblems around. Suffice it
> to say that anyone foolish enough to threaten to kick someone's ass in
> this city had damn well better be prepared to do it... good ole boys
> don't talk much, they just swing.
>
Amen brother, conduct like that is not tolerated in Texas and will surely
merit the "Lasombra Thunderclap."
>
>
> -- Derek
>
> do you have stairs in your house?
--
Oscar Garza
Prince of College Station Tx
The Crazy Aggie
On Sun, 22 Jul 2001 03:05:58 +0200, "pallando" <pall...@gmx.at>
wrote:
[ quoted text not captured ]
I wouldnt take that shit. That guy would be out and charged with
assault if I was there. That's ridiculous.
pallando <pall...@gmx.at> wrote in message
news:9jf7fu$u7d$1...@bird.wu-wien.ac.at...
> lsj wrote:
> "> This is unsportsmanlike in the extreme and possibly grounds for legal
> > action.
> > Ejection from the tournament would be the minimum penalty for this
> conduct.
> > [V:EKN Penalty Guidelines 153]
>
> were can i find these guidelines? i believe i found nothing in hte
> tournament rules.
If you read the Introduction to the Tournament Rules online, in the first
paragraph you will find a link to the Penaly Guidelines.
Tournament Rules here:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/veknRules.html
Penalty Guidelines here:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/veknPenalty.html
Carpe noctem.
Lasombra
http://www.TheLasombra.com