rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Gargoyle Question

5 messages from 4 participants · 05 January 2010 – 06 January 2010
original thread on Google Groups

John P.

A little confused about gargoyle allies: Rock Cat "Gargoyle creature with 4 life" Create Gargoyle "This card represents a 2-capacity, non-unique, slave Gargoyle" Gargoyle Slave "Ally with 3 life" Is the distinction that some are allies and some are vampires drawn from if they have life or capacity? The question came up at a tournament where someone wanted to play raking talons (requiring clan gargoyle) with their Rock Cat. The rock cat is a gargoyle (meeting the requirements of Raking Talon's text) and the card physically has the clan gargoyle symbol printed on it. The player wanted to argue that the presence of the clan gargoyle symbol (the requirement to play the rock cat) and the fact that the Rock Cat is a gargoyle by card text permitted him to play raking talons. I disagreed, ruling that Raking Talons requires "Clan Gargoyle", not just any gargoyle, and the presence of the clan gargoyle symbol does not alter this. Q: is this correct, and by extension none of the three allies can play raking talons? -John P.

Chris Berger

On Jan 5, 2:39 pm, "John P." <jtpat...@mts.net> wrote: > A little confused about gargoyle allies: > > Rock Cat "Gargoyle creature with 4 life" > Create Gargoyle "This card represents a 2-capacity, non-unique, slave > Gargoyle" > Gargoyle Slave "Ally with 3 life" > > Is the distinction that some are allies and some are vampires drawn > from if they have life or capacity? > 1) Raking Talons has a Gargoyle clan symbol on it, and can only be played by a Gargoyle vampire. 2) Rock Cat is not a Gargoyle, it is a "Gargoyle Creature". There is no "Foo" rule in V:TES - similary, a Haven Uncovered is not a Haven. 3) Allies are not vampires. They are allies,as indicated by the ally symbol on their cards. Create Gargoyle is also not a vampire card when it is not in play. It becomes a vampire when played. It should probably say "represents a .... slave Gargoyle vampire", although it comes to the same thing since a Gargoyle is specifically defined in the game as a vampire, but a Gargoyle Creature is not.

Shockwave

On Jan 5, 8:47 pm, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote: > On Jan 5, 2:39 pm, "John P." <jtpat...@mts.net> wrote: > 2) Rock Cat is not a Gargoyle, it is a "Gargoyle Creature". There is > no "Foo" rule in V:TES - similary, a Haven Uncovered is not a Haven. Except Bundi, which is both a Hand Strike and a Melee Strike, except in IG, when being part Melee Strike doesn't prevent it being used. Boolean VTES! :)

LSJ

[ quoted text not captured ] Bundi is not an exception, neither to the foo rule's non-existence, nor to IG. I think you misunderstand what it means to have a "foo" rule. Having a "foo" rule wouild mean things are typed (have a certain attribute) based on words in their names. So Muddled Vampire Hunter would, by virtue of his name alone, be of type "muddled" and of type "vampire" and of type "hunter". Instead of having a "foo" rule, VTES uses names as card labels and depends on card text to provide types and attributes, like Gargoyle Creature and like Bundi.

Shockwave

On Jan 6, 1:56 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > On Jan 6, 4:47 am, Shockwave <d_knowles...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > On Jan 5, 8:47 pm, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote: > > > > On Jan 5, 2:39 pm, "John P." <jtpat...@mts.net> wrote: > > > 2) Rock Cat is not a Gargoyle, it is a "Gargoyle Creature". There is > > > no "Foo" rule in V:TES - similary, a Haven Uncovered is not a Haven. > > > Except Bundi, which is both a Hand Strike and a Melee Strike, except > > in IG, when being part Melee Strike doesn't prevent it being used. > > > Boolean VTES! :) > > Bundi is not an exception, neither to the foo rule's non-existence, > nor to IG. > > I think you misunderstand what it means to have a "foo" rule. Quite probably, but I should stress the smiley was intentional.