rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

What's up with Anarch preview info?

32 messages from 16 participants · 24 April 2003 – 08 May 2003
original thread on Google Groups

Tom, Mad & Co

Just checked that in ww page there have appeared some new cards in the checklist. One of them has called my attention: The Drum of Xipe Totec. After a quick search through google for this strange name, after a few aztec mithology websites, I've found this: http://www.mdt-fr.org/__Forums/forum_read.asp?d=834&root=834&replies=1&theme=11 This is a message in a french message board called tenebrae, where a guy has just spoiled what this card is. Don't know where has this info seen, perhaps a sneak preview in a french ccg related mag. Drum of Xipe Totec Equipment : 2 pool Unique equipment. The vampire with this equipment has superior Celerity. This vampire gets 1 optional maneuver each combat. If this is this way, Goratrix will love it... Magic of the smith, a few rushes/intercept and blurs/lightning reflexes. Smiling Tom, the Anarch

berni...@attbi.comholdlespam

[ quoted text not captured ] Because everyone knows that when you beat on a drum the world spins that much faster around you. If the spoiler is correct, that's pretty lame. Coming soon to a VTES card near you: "Parmenides Crotchless Pantyhose" - as the design team apparently will use any object around them as potential equipment. BernieTime Lansing, Michigan

Tom,Mad&Co

"Tom, Mad & Co" <t...@almadrava.net> escribió en el mensaje news:afe8c4a0.0304...@posting.google.com... > Just checked that in ww page there have appeared some new cards in the > checklist. One of them has called my attention: The Drum of Xipe > Totec. After a quick search through google for this strange name, > after a few aztec mithology websites, I've found this: > > http://www.mdt-fr.org/__Forums/forum_read.asp?d=834&root=834&replies=1&theme =11 Ooops. Forgot a letter in the above link: http://www.mdt-fr.org/__Forums/forum_read.asp?id=834&root=834&replies=1&them [ quoted text not captured ]

AnthonyColeman

berni...@attbi.comHOLDLeSPAM wrote in message news:<3ea77686....@netnews.attbi.com>... > On 23 Apr 2003 17:58:08 -0700, t...@almadrava.net (Tom, Mad & Co) wrote: > > >Just checked that in ww page there have appeared some new cards in the > >checklist. One of them has called my attention: The Drum of Xipe > >Totec. After a quick search through google for this strange name, > >after a few aztec mithology websites, I've found this: > > > >http://www.mdt-fr.org/__Forums/forum_read.asp?d=834&root=834&replies=1&theme=11 > > > >This is a message in a french message board called tenebrae, where a > >guy has just spoiled what this card is. Don't know where has this info > >seen, perhaps a sneak preview in a french ccg related mag. > > > >Drum of Xipe Totec > >Equipment : 2 pool > > > >Unique equipment > >The vampire with this equipment has superior Celerity. This vampire > >gets 1 optional maneuver each combat. > > > >If this is this way, Goratrix will love it... Magic of the smith, a > >few rushes/intercept and blurs/lightning reflexes. > > > >Smiling Tom, the Anarch > > Because everyone knows that when you beat on a drum the world spins that > much faster around you. If the spoiler is correct, that's pretty lame. > > Coming soon to a VTES card near you: "Parmenides Crotchless Pantyhose" > - as the design team apparently will use any object around them as > potential equipment. > > > > BernieTime > Lansing, Michigan . This drum came up in a short story book set in New Orleans some time ago, and as I recal it did confer preternatural speed.. so that ability seems OK to me, trance magic etc what do you think would be more appropriate? a magic go fasta red strip? the guy who's drum it was origionally was the prophet of the humming bird, and Aztec god if I remember corretly.

Mike Nudd

"AnthonyColeman" <anthonyt...@fsmail.net> wrote in message > This drum came up in a short story book set in New Orleans some time > ago, and as I recal it did confer preternatural speed.. so that > ability seems OK to me, trance magic etc what do you think would be > more appropriate? a magic go fasta red strip? the guy who's drum it > was origionally was the prophet of the humming bird, and Aztec god if > I remember corretly. I believe it was actually mentioned in passing in one of the short stories in the original "Beast Within " vampire anthology, which was all set in San Francisco. The drum was used by a vampire called Hortator against his sire (whose name I can't remember, but whom the story was actually about), both of whom were descended from an old Baali methuselah (possibly the Shaitan mentioned in the Mage 1st ed. adventure called The Chaos Factor?). Regards, Mke

Tom,Mad&Co

> > Coming soon to a VTES card near you: "Parmenides Crotchless Pantyhose" > > - as the design team apparently will use any object around them as > > potential equipment. > > > > BernieTime > > Lansing, Michigan > > This drum came up in a short story book set in New Orleans some time > ago, and as I recal it did confer preternatural speed.. so that > ability seems OK to me, trance magic etc what do you think would be > more appropriate? a magic go fasta red strip? the guy who's drum it > was origionally was the prophet of the humming bird, and Aztec god if > I remember corretly. Well, last night, when searching for info about this item related to wod, I've visited several websites dedicated to aztec mithology. It seems that Xipe Totec was one of the gods of the winds, being Huiztilopochtli its opposite. Don't know if there is or have existed any kindred/being in wod that attended for this game, though. Upon items that grant superior discipline, I personally like them a lot. Usually, when developing decks that rely on one of those disciplines that has an item, prefer to put them rather than skill cards. And it offers nice possibilities to add vampires to a crypt that are lame in just one of the disciplines that the rest of crypt has. Examples: !brujah with Obt, backed with 3 copies of Jessica, a hands of conrad and art of pain, Malk bleeders with perfect clarity, and toreador aching beauty-mask of 1000 faces. Any idea where this new item should prove more usefull? CEL THA, perhaps? Smiling Tom, the Anarch

Halcyan 2

>Just checked that in ww page there have appeared some new cards in the >checklist. One of them has called my attention: The Drum of Xipe >Totec. After a quick search through google for this strange name, >after a few aztec mithology websites, I've found this: AFAIK, Xipe Totec was an Aztec God of Fertility. In spirit with a lot of gruesome aspects of Aztec culture, Totec means Our Lord and Xipe is skin or flayed skin. And some of his fertility rituals weren't exactly the most pleasant of experiences. Ick! Halcyan 2

Ped Xing

> Any idea where this new item should prove more usefull? CEL THA, perhaps? Smudge the Ignored. With this new Drum and the Hand of Conrad. And a flak jacket. Made into an Archon. Ignore him at your own peril!!!!! -Matt

Tom,Mad&Co

"Ped Xing" <ped_...@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje news:51ecf271.03042...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Much better this way Smudge+Drum+Eye of Hazimel+Veneficorum+Rutor's hand+Archon Imposing Phantasm, Immortal, blood fury, disarm, amaranth. Add a few flashes/pursuits/sideslips Guess this could be an idea for a Caitiff Combat deck :-P > > -Matt

CurtAdams

berni...@attbi.comHOLDLeSPAM writes: >Because everyone knows that when you >beat on a drum the world spins that >much faster around you. If the spoiler >is correct, that's pretty lame. >Coming soon to a VTES card near you: >"Parmenides Crotchless Pantyhose" >- as the design team apparently will >use any object around them as >potential equipment. What are you complaining about? Drums are a traditional element of religious and magic rituals the world over and Xipe Totec is an Aztec god. I can't think of an item *more* appropriate for magical equipment. And it's not like you can buy Aztec relic ceremonial drums at Walmart, either. Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com) "It is better to be wrong than to be vague" - Freeman Dyson

James Coupe

In message <20030424130046...@mb-m03.aol.com>, CurtAdams <curt...@aol.com> writes: >And it's not like you can buy Aztec relic >ceremonial drums at Walmart, either. Meh. They're on special at the moment. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D Lucky that my breasts are small and humble, EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 So you don't confuse them with mountains. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D

LSJ

berni...@attbi.comHOLDLeSPAM wrote: > Coming soon to a VTES card near you: "Parmenides Crotchless Pantyhose" > - as the design team apparently will use any object around them as > potential equipment. I'm unaware of any WoD reference for any crotchless pantyhose (or any other undergarment) worn or manufactured by (or from pieces of) Parmenides, or of any reasonable assumption that can be made that such an item, if it were to exist, would give its bearer any interesting abilities. Please elaborate. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Gomi no Sensei

In article <JyOpa.10613$xd5.4...@stones.force9.net>, Mike Nudd <mi...@vekn.org.uk> wrote: > >"AnthonyColeman" <anthonyt...@fsmail.net> wrote in message [drum of xipe totec] >I believe it was actually mentioned in passing in one of the short stories >in the original "Beast Within " vampire anthology, which was all set in San >Francisco. The drum was used by a vampire called Hortator against his sire >(whose name I can't remember, but whom the story was actually about), both >of whom were descended from an old Baali methuselah (possibly the Shaitan >mentioned in the Mage 1st ed. adventure called The Chaos Factor?). The name is amusing, since a hortator is the guy on a galley who beats the drum to keep the oarsmen in time. Same root as 'exhort'. Those wacky guys. paul e. -- Peace is generally good in itself, but it is never the highest good unless it comes as the handmaid of righteousness; and it becomes a very evil thing if it serves merely as a mask for cowardice and sloth, or as an instrument to further the ends of despotism or anarchy. --Theodore Roosevelt

berni...@attbi.comholdlespam

On 24 Apr 2003 17:00:46 GMT, curt...@aol.com (CurtAdams) wrote: >berni...@attbi.comHOLDLeSPAM writes: > >>Because everyone knows that when you >>beat on a drum the world spins that >>much faster around you. If the spoiler >>is correct, that's pretty lame. > >>Coming soon to a VTES card near you: >>"Parmenides Crotchless Pantyhose" >>- as the design team apparently will >>use any object around them as >>potential equipment. > >What are you complaining about? Drums >are a traditional element of religious and >magic rituals the world over and Xipe Totec >is an Aztec god. I can't think of an item >*more* appropriate for magical equipment. >And it's not like you can buy Aztec relic >ceremonial drums at Walmart, either. Curt, I don't have a problem with either an artifact Drum, nor an object that gives it's bearer celerity. However, I don't believe that the two mix into a believable unified entity. If (let's say) Smudge has the Drum, and starts playing it to get mega celerity (primarily a combat supportive discipline) how would you expect to land a blow on an opposing minion without stopping the drum beat? At least Hand of Conrad & Changeling Skin Mask are objects that provide effects when worn or carried (no constant manipulations required). So unless there is some martial arts style that focuses on the bodhrán, it comes across as a pretty lame concept. Had they made it as equipment that a minion controlling the drum could tap to give a target vampire superior celerity for the duration of an action, that would have been a bit more plausable (IMHO). Assuming that the designer was hellbent on hooking celerity to a drum. This is of course assuming that the spoiler is accurate. Bernie >Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)

berni...@attbi.comholdlespam

On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:29:51 -0400, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >berni...@attbi.comHOLDLeSPAM wrote: >> Coming soon to a VTES card near you: "Parmenides Crotchless Pantyhose" >> - as the design team apparently will use any object around them as >> potential equipment. > >I'm unaware of any WoD reference for any crotchless pantyhose (or any >other undergarment) worn or manufactured by (or from pieces of) >Parmenides, or of any reasonable assumption that can be made that >such an item, if it were to exist, would give its bearer any >interesting abilities. > >Please elaborate. I'd rather not; not really having any contact with or knowledge of any said undergarment. Nor do Parmenides and I hang out (he always has other places to be), so my knowledge or conjecture of this matter is secondhand at best.. Pardon my ire, as it is targeted at what is a potential spoiler in the new set. Allow me to turn my switch back to "civil" mode.. BTime [ quoted text not captured ]

Derek Ray

In message <3ea84aee....@netnews.attbi.com>, berni...@attbi.comHOLDLeSPAM mumbled something about: >On 24 Apr 2003 17:00:46 GMT, curt...@aol.com (CurtAdams) wrote: > >>What are you complaining about? Drums >>are a traditional element of religious and >>magic rituals the world over and Xipe Totec >>is an Aztec god. I can't think of an item >>*more* appropriate for magical equipment. >>And it's not like you can buy Aztec relic >>ceremonial drums at Walmart, either. > >Curt, > >I don't have a problem with either an artifact Drum, nor an object >that gives it's bearer celerity. However, I don't believe that the two >mix into a believable unified entity. It's a magic artifact, for godsake. It doesn't HAVE to be believable. That's why it's called "magic". >If (let's say) Smudge has the Drum, and starts playing it to get mega >celerity (primarily a combat supportive discipline) how would you expect >to land a blow on an opposing minion without stopping the drum beat? >At least Hand of Conrad & Changeling Skin Mask are objects that provide >effects when worn or carried (no constant manipulations required). Easy. Beat the drum in a prescribed ritual each sunset, and you have superior Celerity for the rest of the night. Problem solved. Major mental crisis taken care of. TRAGIC INCOMPATIBLE REALITY MOMENT ENDED. Now, can we get off this and back on to the bit where Goratrix plays Magic of the Smith, gets this thing, and plays Blur? -- "There's no gray. There's just white that's got grubby." -- T.P.

berni...@attbi.comholdlespam

On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:40:37 -0400, Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote: >In message <3ea84aee....@netnews.attbi.com>, >berni...@attbi.comHOLDLeSPAM mumbled something about: > >>On 24 Apr 2003 17:00:46 GMT, curt...@aol.com (CurtAdams) wrote: >> >>>What are you complaining about? Drums >>>are a traditional element of religious and >>>magic rituals the world over and Xipe Totec >>>is an Aztec god. I can't think of an item >>>*more* appropriate for magical equipment. >>>And it's not like you can buy Aztec relic >>>ceremonial drums at Walmart, either. >> >>Curt, >> >>I don't have a problem with either an artifact Drum, nor an object >>that gives it's bearer celerity. However, I don't believe that the two >>mix into a believable unified entity. > >It's a magic artifact, for godsake. It doesn't HAVE to be believable. I'll agree to disagree with you on this point. Entertainment media is guaged on how it is able to create/convey a suspension of disbelief in its subject matter. If the supposed spoiler text is correct, it'll be a darned shame for reasons stated prior. >That's why it's called "magic". Humbug >>If (let's say) Smudge has the Drum, and starts playing it to get mega >>celerity (primarily a combat supportive discipline) how would you expect >>to land a blow on an opposing minion without stopping the drum beat? >>At least Hand of Conrad & Changeling Skin Mask are objects that provide >>effects when worn or carried (no constant manipulations required). > >Easy. Beat the drum in a prescribed ritual each sunset, and you have >superior Celerity for the rest of the night. > >Problem solved. Major mental crisis taken care of. TRAGIC INCOMPATIBLE >REALITY MOMENT ENDED. Not really. If you take the time to look into the Aztec folklore and learn more about Xipe Totec, I find it hard to tie anything celeritous to the diety in question. A number of other disciplines would have been a better matchup than Celerity, which seems to come out of the blue. >Now, can we get off this and back on to the bit where Goratrix plays >Magic of the Smith, gets this thing, and plays Blur? Like that would ever happen; hehe :-) BTime - Doesn't mind a little rain during the parade

Tobias

Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<9q0havg8menv55at3...@4ax.com>... > Now, can we get off this and back on to the bit where Goratrix plays > Magic of the Smith, gets this thing, and plays Blur? Hooverphonic, set to a drum beat. Tobias Deventer

James Coupe

In message <9q0havg8menv55at3...@4ax.com>, Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> writes: >Easy. Beat the drum in a prescribed ritual each sunset, and you have >superior Celerity for the rest of the night. Aw. What if I wanted a lie-in? [ quoted text not captured ]

Mike Nudd

"Tom,Mad&Co" <t...@almadrava.net> wrote in message news:b8937a$gu$1...@nsnmrro2-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net... > Much better this way > Smudge+Drum+Eye of Hazimel+Veneficorum+Rutor's hand+Archon > Imposing Phantasm, Immortal, blood fury, disarm, amaranth. Add a few > flashes/pursuits/sideslips > > Guess this could be an idea for a Caitiff Combat deck :-P <cough> Drawing Out The Beast! <cough> :) Regards, Mike

robtreasure

James Coupe wrote: >>Easy. Beat the drum in a prescribed ritual each sunset, and you have >>superior Celerity for the rest of the night. > > Aw. What if I wanted a lie-in? Couldn't keep still in bed with CEL either... be all fidgety and such. Rob -- Direct access to this group with http://web2news.com http://web2news.com/?rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Tom,Mad&Co

> > Much better this way > > Smudge+Drum+Eye of Hazimel+Veneficorum+Rutor's hand+Archon > > Imposing Phantasm, Immortal, blood fury, disarm, amaranth. Add a few > > flashes/pursuits/sideslips > > > > Guess this could be an idea for a Caitiff Combat deck :-P > > <cough> Drawing Out The Beast! <cough> Don't know if it qualifies... Doesn't Smudge count as an Ally ? ;-) > > :) > > > Regards, > > Mike > >

LSJ

berni...@attbi.comHOLDLeSPAM wrote: > Not really. If you take the time to look into the Aztec folklore and > learn more about Xipe Totec, I find it hard to tie anything celeritous > to the diety in question. A number of other disciplines would have been > a better matchup than Celerity, which seems to come out of the blue. Hmm. Lessee - here's an artifact that I haven't heard of and I find it hard to see why it has been written the way it has been. It must be lame and made up out of the blue by developers who don't do enough research. Yep, that's the only possible explanation... -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. [ quoted text not captured ]

berni...@attbi.comholdlespam

On Fri, 25 Apr 2003 08:43:54 -0400, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >berni...@attbi.comHOLDLeSPAM wrote: >> Not really. If you take the time to look into the Aztec folklore and >> learn more about Xipe Totec, I find it hard to tie anything celeritous >> to the diety in question. A number of other disciplines would have been >> a better matchup than Celerity, which seems to come out of the blue. > >Hmm. Lessee - here's an artifact that I haven't heard of and I find it >hard to see why it has been written the way it has been. It must be >lame and made up out of the blue by developers who don't do enough >research. > >Yep, that's the only possible explanation... Hmmm, as posted by by davecrazy in a seperate thread; "1) The Drum is featured in one of the short stories of The Beast Within (book published by WW a while ago). In it it grants the user preternatural speed." Guess I can't fault the design team when they get stuck working with shoddy source material. There are reasons I don't much care for the WoD in general, but that's a subject reserved for another day. >LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. BernieTime Lansing, Michigan

Derek Ray

In message <2669...@web2news.com>, "robtreasure" <robtreasure....@web2news.net> mumbled something about: >James Coupe wrote: >>>Easy. Beat the drum in a prescribed ritual each sunset, and you have >>>superior Celerity for the rest of the night. >> >> Aw. What if I wanted a lie-in? > >Couldn't keep still in bed with CEL either... be all fidgety and such. Can't sleep anyway. Some idiot's beating a drum all night again. [ quoted text not captured ]

robtreasure

De-rek R-ay burbled: >>James Coupe wrote: >>>>Easy. Beat the drum in a prescribed ritual each sunset, >>>> and you have >>>>superior Celerity for the rest of the night. >>> >>> Aw. What if I wanted a lie-in? >> >>Couldn't keep still in bed with CEL either... be all >> fidgety and such. > > Can't sleep anyway. Some idiot's beating a drum all night again. Best get our asses out of bed and eat some more 'trifle'. For information : tri搭le n. ( P ) Pronunciation Key (trfl) A dessert typically consisting of plain or sponge cake soaked in sherry, rum, or brandy and topped with layers of jam or jelly, custard, and whipped cream. Goddamn I love master card trifle. Mmmmm. [ quoted text not captured ]

Ped Xing

"Tom,Mad&Co" <t...@almadrava.net> wrote in message news:<b8b1i3$r1n$1...@nsnmrro2-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net>... [ quoted text not captured ] RE: DotB, Not sure if Smudge can afford to get punched for 2, even with all the fat loot we're decking him out with (like flak jackets).... Though if you could get him advanced animalism that would certainly give him access to Crimson Fury, and since he will inevitably end up in torpor with all that nice equipment on him he'd be a prime target for diablerie making it a nasty suprise... I have seen the Veneficorum/Rutors module elsewhere, will it really work here? Given that Smudge with Veneficorum is STILL a 1-cap, he'd have to do Rutors at basic and after paying the cost for the card the agg damage lands him in torpor. I suppose you could recuse him, but... what's the point? I like the Blood Fury angle ALOT though. Unpreventable face punching is just too fun. Still there may be something to this idea, and indeed you could have a crypt full of weenies and use Heidelburg to pass the wealth between them--you'd need to use Hand of Conrad in this case instead of the Eye since the Eye can't be transferred, and as such it might be better to leave out the chimerstry angle anyhow. Anyone feel like posting a deck? -Matt

XZealot

"robtreasure" <robtreasure....@web2news.net> wrote in message news:2675...@web2news.com... > De-rek R-ay burbled: > > >>James Coupe wrote: > >>>>Easy. Beat the drum in a prescribed ritual each sunset, > >>>> and you have > >>>>superior Celerity for the rest of the night. > >>> > >>> Aw. What if I wanted a lie-in? > >> > >>Couldn't keep still in bed with CEL either... be all > >> fidgety and such. > > > > Can't sleep anyway. Some idiot's beating a drum all night again. > > Best get our asses out of bed and eat some more 'trifle'. > > For information : > > tri搭le n. ( P ) Pronunciation Key (trfl) > > A dessert typically consisting of plain or sponge cake soaked in sherry, > rum, or brandy and topped with layers of jam or jelly, custard, and > whipped cream. > > Goddamn I love master card trifle. Mmmmm. Sounds alot like Tiramisu. mmm.... Tiramisu.....

Alex Broadhead

Howdy, > This is a message in a french message board called tenebrae, where a > guy has just spoiled what this card is. Don't know where has this info > seen, perhaps a sneak preview in a french ccg related mag. > > Drum of Xipe Totec > Equipment : 2 pool > > Unique equipment. > The vampire with this equipment has superior Celerity. This vampire > gets 1 optional maneuver each combat. > > If this is this way, Goratrix will love it... Magic of the smith, a > few rushes/intercept and blurs/lightning reflexes. Or, for a much, much sillier deck concept, Violet Tremain, Magic for the Drum, +1 strength weapon or Depravity, mucho Psyche! Everyone else in the crypt should be a Setite and/or have superior Serpentis... ('Cause as capacity decreases, ease of corruption increases.) Ineffective, I'm sure, but probably amusing as heck. Alex

CurtAdams

tobiasop...@hotmail.com writes: >Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote >> Now, can we get off this and back on to the bit where Goratrix plays >> Magic of the Smith, gets this thing, and plays Blur? >Hooverphonic, set to a drum beat. You're saying Hooverphonic sucks the life out of you? Philistine! Humph. [ quoted text not captured ]

Halcyan 2

>Or, for a much, much sillier deck concept, Violet Tremain, Magic for >the Drum, +1 strength weapon or Depravity, mucho Psyche! Everyone >else in the crypt should be a Setite and/or have superior Serpentis... > ('Cause as capacity decreases, ease of corruption increases.) > >Ineffective, I'm sure, but probably amusing as heck. Yeah, what are you going to do with a bunch of 1-cap Princes and Justicars... Halcyan 2 tariq wouldn't mind though

Tom,Mad&Co

> > > > Much better this way > > > > Smudge+Drum+Eye of Hazimel+Veneficorum+Rutor's hand+Archon > > > > Imposing Phantasm, Immortal, blood fury, disarm, amaranth. Add a few > > > > flashes/pursuits/sideslips > > > > > > > > Guess this could be an idea for a Caitiff Combat deck :-P > > > > > > <cough> Drawing Out The Beast! <cough> > > > > Don't know if it qualifies... Doesn't Smudge count as an Ally ? ;-) > > RE: DotB, Not sure if Smudge can afford to get punched for 2, even > with all the fat loot we're decking him out with (like flak > jackets).... Though if you could get him advanced animalism that would > certainly give him access to Crimson Fury, and since he will > inevitably end up in torpor with all that nice equipment on him he'd > be a prime target for diablerie making it a nasty suprise... > I guess you haven't understood the joke about drawing out the beast. They'll play this AGAINST poor smudge who, btw, hasn't got animalism.