Greets again :-)
A few questions:
1.) If I have a minion enter combat with another who happens to have a
weapon that deals aggravated damage, yet I play 'Undead Persistence, will
the aggravated damage weapon eventually burn the vampire if the combat goes
to a point where the 'Undead Persistent vampire hits zero blood? For
example, assume I have 1 blood. I play 'Undead Persistence. My vamp
strikes for 1, and the opposing vamp strikes for 1 regular hand damage.
Combat presses to continue. I strike for 1 hand, and the opposing vamp
strikes for 1 regular hand damage which knocks me down to zero. Combat
presses to continue. I strike for 1 hand, and the other vamp uses their
aggravated strike, which would be unhealable, thus burning the vamp. Is
this how 'Undead Persistence would behave?
2.) Votes. During the tallying of votes, do I need a ready minion to burn
the Edge for a single vote? Also, do I need a ready minion to burn
political cards for their ability to give me a single vote, or can I play
them without having a ready minion (i.e. just keep throwing them into the
middle until I run out during the vote gathering portion of the referendum)?
I also would like to clarify that the same political card, when being used
as a vote, can't be used twice on that referendum, correct?
3.) Duplicate combat cards. If playing a combat, can I play duplicate
cards in the following rounds? For example, in round 1 I play a dodge.
Combat presses to continue. Can I play another dodge (i.e. a duplicate card
that I played in a previous round) in this second round?
4.) Hunting Grounds. Can I bring in a clan specific Hunting Grounds, and
have any minion gain a blood from it? Or is it only minions of that clan
that can take from their hunting grounds? Furthermore, can I play a Hunting
Grounds on my master, and have a minion who has just previously untapped in
the untap phase take a blood from it?
5.) Ventrue Headquarters. Can I use the 3 votes for any political action
called by any minion, Ventrue or not? Can I tap and use the votes in the
event of a blood hunt? I know that the HQ can only come into play if I have
a Ventrue in my active region.
6.) Master Cards. If I play a Barrens, can I tap it at any time (during my
turn, or during my opponents turn, or even while I am embroiled in combat)
so long as it is not untapped before I use it?
7.) Allies. Can allies play cards like Dodge? The rules state that they
can play minion cards, so I am assuming playing a Dodge, Open Grate, or
whatever cards don't require skills or Kindred requirements are totally open
game.
8.) Diplomacy and Negotiation. Is it considered proper etiquette to hash a
deal out with another Methuselah at the table, like for instance saying "If
you do this, I won't bleed you for x rounds?" I know that you would not be
obliged to follow the agreement, but I was just wondering if such
discussions and agreements were frowned upon in tournament play. Also, can
you ask a Methuselah "Do you have enough votes to make this political action
pass, basing it solely upon what we can see on the table? If so, I will
call Political Action XYZ; if not, then I won't waste it right now."? The
key reason I ask is because cards like the 'Succubus Club' allow special
interactions between Methuselah's, but "only" if conducted through the
results of playing a card. I'm not sure if the previous examples are
breaking any kinds of rules.
9.) Flak Jackets. Can you equip with more that one of them? If so, can
they offer layered protection? e.g. I have a minion with 2 flak jackets;
can my minion go two rounds of combat, absorbing 1 damage per round, or for
that matter, absorb 2 damage in a single round?
Thanks in advance for any help. Your clarifications help me an my friends
run a smoother, more entertaining game!
Cheers,
Jason
On Tue, 04 Jul 2000 08:45:36 GMT, "Jason Mowat" <jmo...@attglobal.net>
wrote:
>Greets again :-)
>
>A few questions:
>
>1.) If I have a minion enter combat with another who happens to have a
>weapon that deals aggravated damage, yet I play 'Undead Persistence, will
>the aggravated damage weapon eventually burn the vampire if the combat goes
>to a point where the 'Undead Persistent vampire hits zero blood? For
Yep. Undead Persistence doesn't stop you from being wounded, it just
defers the "go to torpor" portion of combat until after combat. When
you're wounded, you still need to burn a blood for every point of agg,
or POOF. So don't be Persistent against Basilia. ;)
>2.) Votes. During the tallying of votes, do I need a ready minion to burn
>the Edge for a single vote? Also, do I need a ready minion to burn
>political cards for their ability to give me a single vote, or can I play
Nope and nope.
>them without having a ready minion (i.e. just keep throwing them into the
>middle until I run out during the vote gathering portion of the referendum)?
But you can't do -that-. You may play ONLY one political card for a
vote per political action. Otherwise, yes, you can gain one vote even
without having ANY minions.
>I also would like to clarify that the same political card, when being used
>as a vote, can't be used twice on that referendum, correct?
If you are the caller of the vote, your one political card for a vote
is already in play, and you may play no additional political cards
from your hand to gain votes.
>3.) Duplicate combat cards. If playing a combat, can I play duplicate
>cards in the following rounds? For example, in round 1 I play a dodge.
>Combat presses to continue. Can I play another dodge (i.e. a duplicate card
>that I played in a previous round) in this second round?
Yes. The "one per vampire per action" only applies to action
modifiers and reaction cards.
>4.) Hunting Grounds. Can I bring in a clan specific Hunting Grounds, and
>have any minion gain a blood from it? Or is it only minions of that clan
Yes, assuming you have a ready minion of the clan required.
>that can take from their hunting grounds? Furthermore, can I play a Hunting
>Grounds on my master, and have a minion who has just previously untapped in
>the untap phase take a blood from it?
No, because your untap phase has already passed, and Hunting Grounds
only give blood during the untap phase.
>5.) Ventrue Headquarters. Can I use the 3 votes for any political action
>called by any minion, Ventrue or not? Can I tap and use the votes in the
>event of a blood hunt? I know that the HQ can only come into play if I have
>a Ventrue in my active region.
You may tap to gain 3 votes at any time, even if there is no
referendum in process (basically "wasting" the votes since they don't
stick around, but hey, if you wanna...) This includes a Blood Hunt.
>6.) Master Cards. If I play a Barrens, can I tap it at any time (during my
>turn, or during my opponents turn, or even while I am embroiled in combat)
>so long as it is not untapped before I use it?
Yes.
>7.) Allies. Can allies play cards like Dodge? The rules state that they
>can play minion cards, so I am assuming playing a Dodge, Open Grate, or
>whatever cards don't require skills or Kindred requirements are totally open
>game.
Allies may play any disciplineless card, including Dodge and the like.
>8.) Diplomacy and Negotiation. Is it considered proper etiquette to hash a
>deal out with another Methuselah at the table, like for instance saying "If
>you do this, I won't bleed you for x rounds?" I know that you would not be
>obliged to follow the agreement, but I was just wondering if such
>discussions and agreements were frowned upon in tournament play. Also, can
>you ask a Methuselah "Do you have enough votes to make this political action
>pass, basing it solely upon what we can see on the table? If so, I will
>call Political Action XYZ; if not, then I won't waste it right now."? The
>key reason I ask is because cards like the 'Succubus Club' allow special
>interactions between Methuselah's, but "only" if conducted through the
>results of playing a card. I'm not sure if the previous examples are
>breaking any kinds of rules.
It is, in fact, not only proper etiquette, it is absolutely REQUIRED
to hash deals out to be a good player of this game. Your deal-making
skills invariably end up counting for more than your deck-making
skills. You are NOT obliged to follow the agreement, but it's worth
noting that if you renege on the deal, at the very least, the rest of
the table is not ever going to deal with you again. And probably,
they're going to come after you as well, so it ends up being a bad
idea.
V:TES is a very Machiavellian game.
(idle note: It's interesting to follow the "doing a Sid" thread,
because "pulling a Stu" was in common use in Atlanta for awhile after
a maneuver like that. =)
>9.) Flak Jackets. Can you equip with more that one of them? If so, can
>they offer layered protection? e.g. I have a minion with 2 flak jackets;
>can my minion go two rounds of combat, absorbing 1 damage per round, or for
>that matter, absorb 2 damage in a single round?
Sure. Card text specifies "prevent 1 per combat", so they'd stack. A
bit amusing, but they'd certainly stack. =)
-- Derek
Deafness never kept composers from hearing the music.
It only stopped them hearing the distractions.
> >4.) Hunting Grounds. Can I bring in a clan specific Hunting Grounds,
and
> >have any minion gain a blood from it? Or is it only minions of that clan
>
> Yes, assuming you have a ready minion of the clan required.
>
> >that can take from their hunting grounds? Furthermore, can I play a
Hunting
> >Grounds on my master, and have a minion who has just previously untapped
in
> >the untap phase take a blood from it?
Let's assume that I have a Zoo Hunting Grounds in play, brought in because
in the last turn, I had a 1 capacity Gangrel ready during my master phase.
On the following turn, I ave tapped all my minions. Now, it comes to my
untap phase. I untap all my minions, which does not include the Gangrel (he
was burned). At this point, can my non-Gangrels take from the Zoo Hunting
Grounds, as they untap, or do they have to be ready at the untap phase to do
this. Furthermore, do I need a Gangrel to take from the Zoo Hunting
Grounds, or do I need a Gangrel for anyone else (my non-Gangrel kindred) to
take from the Zoo Hunting Grounds?
> >5.) Ventrue Headquarters. Can I use the 3 votes for any political
action
> >called by any minion, Ventrue or not? Can I tap and use the votes in the
> >event of a blood hunt? I know that the HQ can only come into play if I
have
> >a Ventrue in my active region.
>
> You may tap to gain 3 votes at any time, even if there is no
> referendum in process (basically "wasting" the votes since they don't
> stick around, but hey, if you wanna...) This includes a Blood Hunt.
So the HQ, once in play (by having a ready Ventrue), is entirely independent
of me having ready Ventrue or not (e.g. due to them getting burned)?
> >9.) Flak Jackets. Can you equip with more that one of them? If so, can
> >they offer layered protection? e.g. I have a minion with 2 flak jackets;
> >can my minion go two rounds of combat, absorbing 1 damage per round, or
for
> >that matter, absorb 2 damage in a single round?
>
> Sure. Card text specifies "prevent 1 per combat", so they'd stack. A
> bit amusing, but they'd certainly stack. =)
So you can stack 6 flak jackets on a minion and prevent up to 6 damage? I
want to be very sure about this one :-)
On Tue, 04 Jul 2000 21:23:23 GMT, "Jason Mowat" <jmo...@attglobal.net>
wrote:
>Let's assume that I have a Zoo Hunting Grounds in play, brought in because>in the last turn, I had a 1 capacity Gangrel ready during my master phase.
>On the following turn, I ave tapped all my minions. Now, it comes to my
>untap phase. I untap all my minions, which does not include the Gangrel (he
>was burned). At this point, can my non-Gangrels take from the Zoo Hunting
>Grounds, as they untap, or do they have to be ready at the untap phase to do
>this. Furthermore, do I need a Gangrel to take from the Zoo Hunting
>Grounds, or do I need a Gangrel for anyone else (my non-Gangrel kindred) to
>take from the Zoo Hunting Grounds?
You merely need a ready Gangrel in order to put the card into play.
Once it is in play, whoever has it may gain benefits from it unto any
vampire, ready Gangrel or not. (making it possible to steal a Hunting
Ground and actually gain some benefit from it.)
>> You may tap to gain 3 votes at any time, even if there is no
>> referendum in process (basically "wasting" the votes since they don't
>> stick around, but hey, if you wanna...) This includes a Blood Hunt.>>So the HQ, once in play (by having a ready Ventrue), is entirely independent
>of me having ready Ventrue or not (e.g. due to them getting burned)?
Correct. But you must have had a ready Ventrue to play it in the
first place.
>> Sure. Card text specifies "prevent 1 per combat", so they'd stack. A
>> bit amusing, but they'd certainly stack. =)>>So you can stack 6 flak jackets on a minion and prevent up to 6 damage? I
>want to be very sure about this one :-)
Absolutely. If you wish to spend 6 pool and 6 equip actions getting 6
flak jackets so that one minion can prevent 6 damage, you GO FOR IT.
=) Why, are you planning on using a Bomb or something? =)
[ quoted text not captured ]
> Let's assume that I have a Zoo Hunting Grounds in play, brought in
because
> in the last turn, I had a 1 capacity Gangrel ready during my master
phase.
> On the following turn, I ave tapped all my minions. Now, it comes to
my
> untap phase. I untap all my minions, which does not include the
Gangrel (he
> was burned). At this point, can my non-Gangrels take from the Zoo
Hunting
> Grounds, as they untap, or do they have to be ready at the untap
phase to do
> this. Furthermore, do I need a Gangrel to take from the Zoo Hunting
> Grounds, or do I need a Gangrel for anyone else (my non-Gangrel
kindred) to
> take from the Zoo Hunting Grounds?
At that point, the HG is in play and can give any one of your vampires
a blood in your untap. You only needed the poor 1-cap to bring out the
HG.
>
> > >5.) Ventrue Headquarters. Can I use the 3 votes for any political> So the HQ, once in play (by having a ready Ventrue), is entirely
independent
> of me having ready Ventrue or not (e.g. due to them getting burned)?
>
Yes. The card is now in play.
Sorry no clue on the flak jackets.
Cameron
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Everything Derek says is correct (he's an excellent rulemonger), but
I'll just add one or two corner case points.
In article <F34B2F5C0B954111.FD5AE09A...@lp.airnew
s.net>, Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> writes
>If you are the caller of the vote, your one political card for a vote
>is already in play, and you may play no additional political cards
>from your hand to gain votes.
Don't forget, however, that if you are, say, calling a referendum to
burn Elysium: The Arboretum, you haven't played a political action card,
so you *can* play one from your hand.
>>3.) Duplicate combat cards. If playing a combat, can I play duplicate
>>cards in the following rounds? For example, in round 1 I play a dodge.
>>Combat presses to continue. Can I play another dodge (i.e. a duplicate card
>>that I played in a previous round) in this second round?>
>Yes. The "one per vampire per action" only applies to action
>modifiers and reaction cards.
Very true. It is useful to note, however, that in combat, there is also
the limitation of only having one source of additional strikes *per
round*. So, you can't play Blur this round and then Blur again, also
this round, nor Blur then Lightning Reflexes this round. However, you
can have (on different rounds) any source of additional strikes again.
>>7.) Allies. Can allies play cards like Dodge? The rules state that they
>>can play minion cards, so I am assuming playing a Dodge, Open Grate, or
>>whatever cards don't require skills or Kindred requirements are totally open
>>game.>
>Allies may play any disciplineless card, including Dodge and the like.
Channeling the Beast, however, has a blood cost. Allies don't have
blood to pay for them. This includes allies like Ghouled Street Thug,
who have the ability to spend life for a specific discipline, but not
for disciplineless cards.
--
James Coupe (Prince of Mercia, England)
Vampire: Elder Kindred Network
http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.nethttp://www.zephyr.org.uk
I just want to tack on a question. In the old V:TES rulebook it states
that if all of a vampire's blood is stolen, they are burned. I tried to
look this up in the online rulebook, and only found rules relating to
the gaining of Blood.
Also does this burning also apply in the case of Etrius, using his
special ability to beat up on someone else's little Tremeres?
Thanks,
Elusium
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <8jveb3$7dh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
elu...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I just want to tack on a question. In the old V:TES rulebook it states
> that if all of a vampire's blood is stolen, they are burned. I tried
to
> look this up in the online rulebook, and only found rules relating to
> the gaining of Blood.
I have never heard of this ruling, but I can assure you that a vampire
who has all of his blood stolen is not burned. He merely sits there
empty until his next minion phase when he has to hunt. There are only
two instances where a vampire is burned:
1)Some one diablrizes them when they are in torpor.
2) A vampire in combat that takes more aggrivated damage than they can
heal. The formula for this type of burning is that the vampire must
receive in a combat x+2 amount of aggravated damage, where x is the
amount of blood on the vampire.
> Also does this burning also apply in the case of Etrius, using his
> special ability to beat up on someone else's little Tremeres?
It should not apply at all, since stealing blood does not burn vampires.
Comments are Disturbingly Welcome,
Norman S. Brown Jr.
X_Zealot
Archon of the Swamp
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <8jvgru$9j5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
X_Ze...@email.msn.com wrote:
> In article <8jveb3$7dh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> elu...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > I just want to tack on a question. In the old V:TES rulebook it
states
> > that if all of a vampire's blood is stolen, they are burned. I tried
> to
> > look this up in the online rulebook, and only found rules relating
to
> > the gaining of Blood.
> I have never heard of this ruling, but I can assure you that a vampire
> who has all of his blood stolen is not burned. He merely sits there
> empty until his next minion phase when he has to hunt. There are only
> two instances where a vampire is burned:
>
I was just as suprised as you when someone showed it too me in the
V:TES printed rulebook. It was quite explicit. I would assume that
unless there had been Errata to the contrary that that ruling would
still hold.
[ quoted text not captured ]
> Very true. It is useful to note, however, that in combat, there is
also
> the limitation of only having one source of additional strikes *per
> round*. So, you can't play Blur this round and then Blur again, also
> this round, nor Blur then Lightning Reflexes this round. However, you
> can have (on different rounds) any source of additional strikes
again.
"A minion cannot use more than one card or effect to gain additional
strikes per round of combat." Section 6.41
Hmmm... Does this mean that Sword of Judgment or Vial of Garou Blood is
NOT cumulative with Blur, Lightning Reflexes et al? I'm sure this has
been green lighted before!
What about the (unlikely) event of Sword of Judgement + Renegade Garou
(no giggling at the back).
It's not the 1 card per action it's the effect bit.
Dave
UGPOW
[ quoted text not captured ]
elu...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8jvhv2$aa0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>I was just as suprised as you when someone showed it too me in the
>V:TES printed rulebook. It was quite explicit. I would assume that
>unless there had been Errata to the contrary that that ruling would
>still hold.
>
You will note that the (now inaccurate) rule cited was in the Basic Game
section of the rules. WotC tried to make a simplified "learning" game, from
which players gratuated to the "full blown" game. Their sloppy rules
writing resulted in this rule in the Basic Game not being repealed in the
Advanced Game. Errata and/or Clarifications existed for a long time
pointing this out, so a vamp has never been burnable in the advanced game as
a result of blood theft. When the revised online rulebook was published,
those sorts of clarifications were repealed since they were then redundant
(and unneccesary with the new rulebook).
This raises an important point. Current errata is based upon the
revised online rulebook, _not_ the printed WotC rulebook. If you don't
start from the right source material, the errata will not make nearly as
much sense, and problem cases like this that were solved in the rewrite will
crop up from time to time.
So, tear off the back page of the WotC rulebook for a discipline
reference guide for new players, and burn the rest of it... ;-)
Regards,
R. David Zopf
Atom Weaver
V:EKN Prince of Charlotte, NC
In article <8jvhv2$aa0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, elu...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I was just as suprised as you when someone showed it too me in the
> V:TES printed rulebook. It was quite explicit. I would assume that
> unless there had been Errata to the contrary that that ruling would
> still hold.
I'm pretty sure you're looking at the Basic Game, which is to V:TES as
War is to Strip Dealer's Choice Poker.
--
William Burke, passenge...@hotmail.com
They call me an elitist because I'm so much better than they are.
Visit my web page! Current essay: Happiness. http://come.to/passenger-pigeon/
In article <8jvjkj$bjl$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, hamd...@my-deja.com writes
>Hmmm... Does this mean that Sword of Judgment or Vial of Garou Blood is
>NOT cumulative with Blur, Lightning Reflexes et al? I'm sure this has
>been green lighted before!
You cannot gain additional strikes from two sources of any kind during
one round of combat.
This would be true were it a piece of equipment to burn, an action like
Bum's Rush with an optional additional strike, tapping a master in play
(like Mob Connections), tapping an ally in play (like !Brujah ally), or
a minion card etc.
You could not, to use your examples above, gain, in the same round,
additional strikes from Vial and Blur.
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <8jvjmh$bk8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
hamd...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > Very true. It is useful to note, however, that in combat, there is
> also
> > the limitation of only having one source of additional strikes *per
> > round*. So, you can't play Blur this round and then Blur again, also
> > this round, nor Blur then Lightning Reflexes this round. However, you
> > can have (on different rounds) any source of additional strikes
> again.
>
> "A minion cannot use more than one card or effect to gain additional
> strikes per round of combat." Section 6.41
>> Hmmm... Does this mean that Sword of Judgment or Vial of Garou Blood is
> NOT cumulative with Blur, Lightning Reflexes et al? I'm sure this has
> been green lighted before!
>> What about the (unlikely) event of Sword of Judgement + Renegade Garou
> (no giggling at the back).
>
> It's not the 1 card per action it's the effect bit that bothers me. I'm
> sure this is new.
It is not new:
From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie)
Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad
Subject: Rules Team Rulings: 1/12/96
Date: 14 Jan 1996 00:11:10 GMT
Message-ID: <4d9hmu$p...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
14) Using Vial of Garou Blood counts as your one source of additional strikes
for each round, so it may not be used if you've already acquired additional
strikes this round and prohibits you from playing any further additional
strike cards for the rest of the combat.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/[ quoted text not captured ]
LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
news:8kd7t6$4br$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <8jvjmh$bk8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> hamd...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > What about the (unlikely) event of Sword of Judgement + Renegade Garou
> > (no giggling at the back).
> >
> > It's not the 1 card per action it's the effect bit that bothers me. I'm
> > sure this is new.
>
> It is not new:
>
> From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie)
> Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad
> Subject: Rules Team Rulings: 1/12/96
> Date: 14 Jan 1996 00:11:10 GMT
> Message-ID: <4d9hmu$p...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
>
> 14) Using Vial of Garou Blood counts as your one source of additional
strikes
> for each round, so it may not be used if you've already acquired
additional
> strikes this round and prohibits you from playing any further additional
> strike cards for the rest of the combat.
>
Which is a perfectly clear answer to the Vial + Sword scenario, where there
are two 'effects' which add a strike (the Vial being one, and the Sword
being the other), but does not address the situation where the Renegade
Garou (with his 2 _inherent_ strikes) has another source of additional
strikes (the Sword). Is the Garou's ability an 'effect' for the purpose of
this rule, or does it not count, like Jacko's special?
Mark Shanewood
Ancilla of Minneapolis
(wishing he had a Sword to go with his umpty Garou now...)
> In article <8jvjmh$bk8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> hamd...@my-deja.com wrote:
(regarding sources of extra strikes)
>
> What about the (unlikely) event of Sword of Judgement +
> Renegade Garou (no giggling at the back).
No giggling here.
Just reading card text.
"Unique melee weapon. The Brujah antitribu with this equipment gets +1
hand damage with each strike; he or she gains an optional additional
strike each round of combat."
Since you can never make the Garou a Brujah Antitribu, the Garou can
never use the Sword. He can hold the Sword, but he cannot use it.
Therefore your question is pointless.
There is no way currently in the game for any ally not capable of
playing celerity, protean, or obtenebration cards to be able to gain
additional strikes beyond the one listed in their own card text.
Vial of Garou Blood also specifies that only a vampire may
receive its effects.
If there were a card that allowed allies to gain additional strikes,
both the Renegade Garou and the Black Spiral Buddy would be able to
play them, as their innate abilities are not "gaining additional
strikes", they are only using their innate abilities.
Remember though, IANALSJ.
Carpe Noctem.
Lasombra
http://members.tripod.com/~Lasombra[ quoted text not captured ]
"Mark & Kathy ShaneWood" <shan...@tcinternet.net> wrote:
> Which is a perfectly clear answer to the Vial + Sword scenario, where
there
> are two 'effects' which add a strike (the Vial being one, and the
Sword
> being the other), but does not address the situation where the
Renegade
> Garou (with his 2 _inherent_ strikes) has another source of additional
> strikes (the Sword). Is the Garou's ability an 'effect' for the
purpose of
> this rule, or does it not count, like Jacko's special?
The Garou's ability is an effect, yes (Just like his rush is an
effect.) He could not gain additional strikes from another source.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/[ quoted text not captured ]