Hi! Does anyone know if there are any rulings regarding the following
questions? They sure bring the players here in Gothenburg, Sweden a lot
of trouble...
#1. Can one specific vampire have two or more Raven Spys? And if so, does
he get +1+1=+2 intercept?
#2. If a vampire who doesn't have Animalism steals a Raven Spy from another
vampire, can he use it? (i.e. get +1 intercept?)
#3. If a vampire plays for example Bewitching Oration and gains 4 votes,
and an opposing vampire plays Pulled Strings, does this mean that
all the votes are lost, or just the votes from the acting vampires
title? Is the vote from the played vote card lost too?
#4. I've seen many different suggestions on how Charming lobby works, but
is there an official ruling? I'm confused.
#5. I read the Errata which states that Fame is a unique master and should
be contested as a title. This IMHO is good but it raises a few questions.
Can you play Fame on another Methuselah's vampires, and if so can you
play TWO Fame on two different opposing vamps which would contest them?
This happened to me :( Of course you can yield a Fame at your untap so
you don't lose blood, but it paralyzes two of your vamps for a while.
#6. Does a retainer get it's lives set when it is recruited, or do they
change if you play a skill card on the vamp in question?
#7. If a Methuselah is allowed to play 2 master cards each turn, can he
then play two Master-out-of-turn cards too? Or does he loose his entire
next Master Phase if he plays just the one Master-oput-of-turn? Or does
he get to play ONE Master-out-of-turn and then play ONE master card the
next turn?
Did you get all that? Thanks for any help!
In article <3n5vq7$p...@nyheter.chalmers.se>,
Tom Lindahl <d2l...@dtek.chalmers.se> wrote:
>Hi! Does anyone know if there are any rulings regarding the following
>questions? They sure bring the players here in Gothenburg, Sweden a lot
>of trouble...
sure. let me try to help y'all out, then. sweden. hmm. brings to mind
questions about what vampires do when the sun's up 24 hours a day. estivate?
>#1. Can one specific vampire have two or more Raven Spys? And if so, does
> he get +1+1=+2 intercept?
yup. they're not unique, unlike mr. winthrop, and they don't explicitly
state that only one can be used, unlike the sport bike. so the given
vamp just has lots of little avian informers. this makes them handy
little critters. they just stack on and on.
>#2. If a vampire who doesn't have Animalism steals a Raven Spy from another
> vampire, can he use it? (i.e. get +1 intercept?)
i assume you mean via far mastery or entrancement, no? yeah, it would
work just fine; the discipline only comes into play at the time the
retainer is recruited, and if the retainer changes control after that, the
skills of the new controller don't matter.
>#3. If a vampire plays for example Bewitching Oration and gains 4 votes,
> and an opposing vampire plays Pulled Strings, does this mean that
> all the votes are lost, or just the votes from the acting vampires
> title? Is the vote from the played vote card lost too?
hm. this one's a little sticky, and to my knowledge there is no official
ruling on it; i'm completely certain pulling strings cancels the title
votes, and almost certain it cancels the bewitching votes...but i'm not
at all sure if the vote from the action card is cancelled as well. that
got batted back and forth a while earlier in the group, and the discussion
got sidetracked. so, there are opinions on both sides, but no firm ruling.
alas.
>#4. I've seen many different suggestions on how Charming lobby works, but
> is there an official ruling? I'm confused.
you're not the only one. charming lobby is a mess second only to rotschreck.
but, for what it's worth, here's the official shtick: it requires three
vampires to use one of these things. one to call a vote, which has to
pass for the whole thing to work. a second one to use the charming lobby.
and a third one to call another vote, which (if the charming lobby went
unblocked) passes automatically. you'll notice that there is no point at
which you can use the 2 votes that charming lobby (superior) grants, since
there are no votes in progress at that time. this is a Bad Thing (tm), and
the design team should be beaten on the tips of their toes like the naughty,
naughty little critters they are. alas, we are not free from these bad,
bad people, no! we are constrained because we have no power, no lutefisk!
but i digress. excuse me.
>#5. I read the Errata which states that Fame is a unique master and should
> be contested as a title. This IMHO is good but it raises a few questions.
> Can you play Fame on another Methuselah's vampires, and if so can you
> play TWO Fame on two different opposing vamps which would contest them?
> This happened to me :( Of course you can yield a Fame at your untap so
> you don't lose blood, but it paralyzes two of your vamps for a while.
urk. if memory fails me not, fame says 'put on a ready vampire you control,'
no? so it could not be played on someone else's vampire. also, contesting
fame with yourself would not paralyze two vampires. there are only two
kinds of contestion: titles, and everything else. when a vampire contests
a title, each vampire contesting the title pays a blood during its untap
until someone is out of blood, in torpor, or voluntarily yields. the title
is out of commission (so the vampires contesting cannot use tradition cards,
vote, etc.), but the vampires may act as normal in all other ways.
the other kind of contest is unique cards of various sorts. in this case,
only the contested card itself (in this case, fame) is considered out of
play, or 'paralyzed' if you will. the only time a vampire of yours would
be out of the action is if the vampire itself became contested.
did that help?
>#6. Does a retainer get it's lives set when it is recruited, or do they
> change if you play a skill card on the vamp in question?
lives are set at the time it is recruited; changes in the employing vampire's
skill after that don't affect it.
>#7. If a Methuselah is allowed to play 2 master cards each turn, can he
> then play two Master-out-of-turn cards too? Or does he loose his entire
> next Master Phase if he plays just the one Master-oput-of-turn? Or does
> he get to play ONE Master-out-of-turn and then play ONE master card the
> next turn?
Nope. master: out-of-turn cards and master cards are two entirely different
barrels of lutefisk. an out-of-turn card eats your entire subsequent master
phase, regardless of how many master cards you are entitled to play in
that phase. If you play an out-of-turn, during your next master phase you
may not take blood off investments, play a regular master card, or use blood
dolls, for example. basically, anything that takes place during the master
phase is off-limits, because for that turn you don't have a master phase.
>Did you get all that? Thanks for any help!
yup. hope this helped. and if i made a mistake, don't worry; someone
will gleefully correct me, probably within minutes.
cheers,
heckler
--
is this blood on my hands all for you?
candlebox
pech...@nunki.usc.edu (gomi no sensei) writes:
>In article <3n5vq7$p...@nyheter.chalmers.se>,
>Tom Lindahl <d2l...@dtek.chalmers.se> wrote:>>Hi! Does anyone know if there are any rulings regarding the following
>>questions? They sure bring the players here in Gothenburg, Sweden a lot
>>of trouble...>>#3. If a vampire plays for example Bewitching Oration and gains 4 votes,>> and an opposing vampire plays Pulled Strings, does this mean that
>> all the votes are lost, or just the votes from the acting vampires
>> title? Is the vote from the played vote card lost too?>hm. this one's a little sticky, and to my knowledge there is no official
>ruling on it; i'm completely certain pulling strings cancels the title
>votes, and almost certain it cancels the bewitching votes...but i'm not
>at all sure if the vote from the action card is cancelled as well. that
>got batted back and forth a while earlier in the group, and the discussion
>got sidetracked. so, there are opinions on both sides, but no firm ruling.
>alas.
Tom's opinion is that all votes gained from Political Action cards
come soley from the Methuselah, and are therefore not subject to
being string pulled, although he did stress that the DT had not contemplated
it to his knowledge:
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 00:17:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Thomas R Wylie <aa...@cats.ucsc.edu>
Subject: Re: Pulling Strings vs. the vote provided by the PA card.
>I think that the vote generated by the card used to start the action is
>probably outside the scope of Pulling Strings. But I will have to check
>on that.>Tom Wylie | What is the difference between apathy and ignorance?
>aa...@cats.ucsc.edu | I don't know, and I don't care.>>#4. I've seen many different suggestions on how Charming lobby works, but
>> is there an official ruling? I'm confused.>you're not the only one. charming lobby is a mess second only to rotschreck.
>but, for what it's worth, here's the official shtick: it requires three
>vampires to use one of these things. one to call a vote, which has to
>pass for the whole thing to work. a second one to use the charming lobby.
>and a third one to call another vote, which (if the charming lobby went
>unblocked) passes automatically. you'll notice that there is no point at
>which you can use the 2 votes that charming lobby (superior) grants, since
>there are no votes in progress at that time. this is a Bad Thing (tm), and
>the design team should be beaten on the tips of their toes like the naughty,
>naughty little critters they are. alas, we are not free from these bad,
>bad people, no! we are constrained because we have no power, no lutefisk!>but i digress. excuse me.
The new official order is:
1) Vampire A takes a Lobby action.
2) Vampire B takes an action to call a vote. If Vampire A was superior,
then Vampire A contributes two (additional) votes to this referendum.
3) Vampire C takes an action to call a vote. If Vampire B's referendum
passed, then Vampire C's referendum automatically passes.
>>#5. I read the Errata which states that Fame is a unique master and should
>> be contested as a title. This IMHO is good but it raises a few questions.
The official errata is that it is contested by the Methuselah, as any other
unique master would be contested. One house rule is that it is contested
as a title would be.
Neither of these Contests would put the Vampire out of commision.
-----
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu)
Graphics Specialist and Jyhad Rules' Monger.
In article <3n5vq7$p...@nyheter.chalmers.se>,
Tom Lindahl <d2l...@dtek.chalmers.se> wrote:
>#1. Can one specific vampire have two or more Raven Spys? And if so, does
> he get +1+1=+2 intercept?
Yes. Multiple cards are cumulative in general.
>#2. If a vampire who doesn't have Animalism steals a Raven Spy from another
> vampire, can he use it? (i.e. get +1 intercept?)
Yes, the stealing vampire can use the Raven.
>#3. If a vampire plays for example Bewitching Oration and gains 4 votes,
> and an opposing vampire plays Pulled Strings, does this mean that
> all the votes are lost, or just the votes from the acting vampires
> title? Is the vote from the played vote card lost too?
Votes from an action modifier or a reaction are considered to
have come from that vampire, so Pulling Strings would cancel those votes
as well as any votes the title confers (see the DTR, too).
>#4. I've seen many different suggestions on how Charming lobby works, but
> is there an official ruling? I'm confused.
Yes, there is. But you should probably just figure out how you
and your group want to play it, as the official ruling makes the card
"wallpaper." If nobody else provides it, ask again and I'll try and dig
it up for you.
>#5. I read the Errata which states that Fame is a unique master and should
> be contested as a title. This IMHO is good but it raises a few questions.> Can you play Fame on another Methuselah's vampires, and if so can you
> play TWO Fame on two different opposing vamps which would contest them?
> This happened to me :( Of course you can yield a Fame at your untap so
> you don't lose blood, but it paralyzes two of your vamps for a while.
Yes, these strategies are legal. Nasty, but perfectly legal.
>#6. Does a retainer get it's lives set when it is recruited, or do they
> change if you play a skill card on the vamp in question?
A retainer's lives are set when it is recruited. Later changes
in the skill of the vampire controlling the card (via theft or skill
cards) do not affect the number of lives on the reatiner.
>#7. If a Methuselah is allowed to play 2 master cards each turn, can he
> then play two Master-out-of-turn cards too? Or does he loose his entire
> next Master Phase if he plays just the one Master-oput-of-turn? Or does
> he get to play ONE Master-out-of-turn and then play ONE master card the
> next turn?
The entire master phase is sacrificed, so the Methuselah cannot
play another out of turn card until after his skipped phase. Nor can he
play only one master card. The entire phase must be skipped, including
the opportunity to use the Blood Doll, Chantry or other cards that take
effect during the master phase.
| If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--*
| PC game, call the announce line at | js...@vt.edu
| ** csi...@discus.ise.vt.edu ** |
+-------------------------------------+----------------------------------
"Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK
In article <3n6oc4$j...@solaris.cc.vt.edu>,
Joseph Cochran <js...@discus.ise.vt.edu> wrote:
>In article <3n5vq7$p...@nyheter.chalmers.se>,
>Tom Lindahl <d2l...@dtek.chalmers.se> wrote:>>#5. I read the Errata which states that Fame is a unique master and should
>> be contested as a title. This IMHO is good but it raises a few questions.
>> Can you play Fame on another Methuselah's vampires, and if so can you
>> play TWO Fame on two different opposing vamps which would contest them?
>> This happened to me :( Of course you can yield a Fame at your untap so
>> you don't lose blood, but it paralyzes two of your vamps for a while.>
> Yes, these strategies are legal. Nasty, but perfectly legal.
Oops. These strategies *are* legal, but not quite as nasty as I
thought. The Fame card is contested, but that doesn't mean the vampires
are out of commission (much like an Ivory Bow would not put its owner out
of commission). However, the two Methuselahs will then have to decide
whether they want the other one to have a famous vampire (which is a
nasty mind game if not a nasty blood cost). Titles are a little
different, but they do not paralyze a vampire, either (that's paralyze
in the traditional sense, not in the game sense).
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <3n648q$t...@nunki.usc.edu>,
gomi no sensei <pech...@nunki.usc.edu> wrote:
>In article <3n5vq7$p...@nyheter.chalmers.se>,
>Tom Lindahl <d2l...@dtek.chalmers.se> wrote:>>#3. If a vampire plays for example Bewitching Oration and gains 4 votes,
>> and an opposing vampire plays Pulled Strings, does this mean that>>hm. this one's a little sticky, and to my knowledge there is no official
>ruling on it; i'm completely certain pulling strings cancels the title
The latest FAQ states that Pulling Strings will cancel
Dread Gaze votes. This would also apply to Bewitching Oration, I would
think.
>urk. if memory fails me not, fame says 'put on a ready vampire you control,'
>no? so it could not be played on someone else's vampire. also, contesting
No, Fame simply states that it should be placed on a ready
vampire.
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <3n6oc4$j...@solaris.cc.vt.edu> js...@discus.ise.vt.edu (Joseph Cochran) writes:
>In article <3n5vq7$p...@nyheter.chalmers.se>,
>Tom Lindahl <d2l...@dtek.chalmers.se> wrote:>>#5. I read the Errata which states that Fame is a unique master and should
>> be contested as a title. This IMHO is good but it raises a few questions.
>> Can you play Fame on another Methuselah's vampires, and if so can you
>> play TWO Fame on two different opposing vamps which would contest them?
>> This happened to me :( Of course you can yield a Fame at your untap so
>> you don't lose blood, but it paralyzes two of your vamps for a while.> Yes, these strategies are legal. Nasty, but perfectly legal.
Except that it doesn't work. Fame is a contested title, and it
does not take the Famous vampires out of play. Vampires with
contested titles are not out of play; only the titles are.
--
"Live Life with Heart."
Alan Kwan kw...@cs.cornell.edu
[ quoted text not captured ]
If I understand the last FAQ correctly, fame is to be considered
a unique master, and not a title. The proper procedure for contesting
cards is to turn them face down, i.e. - both fames would be turned face
down. Fame is a special case, because it is a master which effects a
vampire. Although fame affects a vampire, it does not become the property
of that vampire, or that vampire's meth. Since fame can be played on others
vampires, it logically follows that the meth. who played Fame would
suffer the loss, making the above strategy usless. This is simply a case
of people "reading into" the cards. Take Curse of Nitocris for example.
I once played with a group who thought that it couldn't be played until
someone got the edge, and that it followed the edge around the table,
getting passed to whoever had it - if one reviews the card, it is evident
that neither of these things is true.
- tony, Prince of Iowa City
In article <Pine.A32.3.91.950421...@black.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
Intimate apperal <abr...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> wrote:
>On 20 Apr 1995, Alan Kwan wrote:>> Except that it doesn't work. Fame is a contested title, and it
>> does not take the Famous vampires out of play. Vampires with
>> contested titles are not out of play; only the titles are.>
> If I understand the last FAQ correctly, fame is to be considered
>a unique master, and not a title. The proper procedure for contesting
>cards is to turn them face down, i.e. - both fames would be turned face
>down. Fame is a special case, because it is a master which effects a
>vampire. Although fame affects a vampire, it does not become the property
>of that vampire, or that vampire's meth. Since fame can be played on others
Actually, from previous rulings, a contested card is paid for by
its current controller, not the person who put it into play. This came
up with regards to Ivory Bow and so forth, and was also applied to
cards like the Curse of Nitocris and Millicent Smith. So the controller
of the vampire *would* be the one who pays or does not pay for the Fame.
It's not as useful a strategy as first implied, but it could result in
an interesting mind game...
[ quoted text not captured ]
gomi no sensei <pech...@nunki.usc.edu> wrote:
>>#3. If a vampire plays for example Bewitching Oration and gains 4 votes,
>> and an opposing vampire plays Pulled Strings, does this mean that
>> all the votes are lost, or just the votes from the acting vampires
>> title? Is the vote from the played vote card lost too?>hm. this one's a little sticky, and to my knowledge there is no official
>ruling on it; i'm completely certain pulling strings cancels the title
>votes, and almost certain it cancels the bewitching votes...but i'm not
>at all sure if the vote from the action card is cancelled as well. that
>got batted back and forth a while earlier in the group, and the discussion
>got sidetracked. so, there are opinions on both sides, but no firm ruling.
Pulled Strings neutralizes all votes generated by the vampire in questions,
including votes generated by reactions, so Bewitching Oration and so on
would be neutralized.
Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for
aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Tom Lindahl <d2l...@dtek.chalmers.se> wrote:
>#1. Can one specific vampire have two or more Raven Spys? And if so, does
> he get +1+1=+2 intercept?
Retainers are cumulative unless they say otherwise (or are unique), yes.
>#2. If a vampire who doesn't have Animalism steals a Raven Spy from another
> vampire, can he use it? (i.e. get +1 intercept?)
Yes. The discipline is only needed to get the retainer into play, not
to make use of it. This is just like stealing a clan-based retainer.
>#3. If a vampire plays for example Bewitching Oration and gains 4 votes,
> and an opposing vampire plays Pulled Strings, does this mean that
> all the votes are lost, or just the votes from the acting vampires
> title? Is the vote from the played vote card lost too?
Pulling Strings neutralizes titles and reaction cards for sure. Whether
it neutralizes the vote provided by the initial action card has been
bounced by the design team.
>#4. I've seen many different suggestions on how Charming lobby works, but
> is there an official ruling? I'm confused.
The official ruling is that you need three actions: One for Charming
Lobby, one for the next vote, and if that second vote passes, a third
action for the automatic vote. Yes, this card is badly in need of
clarification.
>#5. I read the Errata which states that Fame is a unique master and should
> be contested as a title. This IMHO is good but it raises a few questions.
> Can you play Fame on another Methuselah's vampires, and if so can you
> play TWO Fame on two different opposing vamps which would contest them?
> This happened to me :( Of course you can yield a Fame at your untap so
> you don't lose blood, but it paralyzes two of your vamps for a while.
Unique masters only put themselves out of play, not the vampires they are
on. This is just like unique retainers.
>#6. Does a retainer get it's lives set when it is recruited, or do they
> change if you play a skill card on the vamp in question?
The lives are set when the retainer is recruited. Spare blood counters are
good for reminding everyone how much life a retainer has (left).
>#7. If a Methuselah is allowed to play 2 master cards each turn, can he
> then play two Master-out-of-turn cards too? Or does he loose his entire
> next Master Phase if he plays just the one Master-oput-of-turn? Or does
> he get to play ONE Master-out-of-turn and then play ONE master card the
> next turn?
Playing an out-of-turn master burns your entire next master phase, so having
Anson or whatever out doesn't let you play two.
[ quoted text not captured ]