3.1.4. Withdrawing from an Event

3.1.4. Withdrawing from an Event Players choosing to withdraw from an event must inform the scorekeeper before the seatings for the next round are generated. Players leaving the tournament after the scorekeeper begins seatings for the next round receive a "Loss" in the upcoming round and will be removed from the event after that round. And that is all. When a player withdraws from a table (yesterday we had one, due to an urgent phone call), what does his predator gain in VPs and pool ? -------- Orpheus

[ quoted text not captured ] No. The judge ensures that the table balance is not unduly affected, and play continues. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

> Orpheus wrote: > > 3.1.4. Withdrawing from an Event > > Players choosing to withdraw from an event must inform the scorekeeper > > before the seatings for the next round are generated. Players leaving the > > tournament after the scorekeeper begins seatings for the next round receive > > a "Loss" in the upcoming round and will be removed from the event after that > > round. > > > > And that is all. When a player withdraws from a table (yesterday we had one, > > due to an urgent phone call), what does his predator gain in VPs and pool ? > > No. > The judge ensures that the table balance is not unduly affected, and play > continues. How does he do that ? Examples ? What if the table balance IS affected ? I wasn't head judge on that tournie, but at the table apparently there was a change of places, which led to the position at the moment of the withdraw. If the player just "disappears", it penalizes his predator. Does he still not get any compensation ? Thanks for clarifying the subject with more details, Orpheus

Orpheus wrote: >>Orpheus wrote: What, no citation for me? :-) >>The judge ensures that the table balance is not unduly affected, and play >>continues. > > How does he do that ? Examples ? What if the table balance IS affected ? Use proxy a player. If that's not possible, award partial VPs, 1-6 pool, etc. > I wasn't head judge on that tournie, but at the table apparently there was a > change of places, which led to the position at the moment of the withdraw. > If the player just "disappears", it penalizes his predator. Does he still > not get any compensation ? He gets whatever his position indicates. [ quoted text not captured ]

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> a écrit dans le message de news: 3FDDAEDE...@white-wolf.com... > Orpheus wrote: > >>Orpheus wrote: > > What, no citation for me? :-) Better now ? ;-) Gotta do something about that ego trip... ;O) > >>The judge ensures that the table balance is not unduly affected, and play > >>continues. > > > > How does he do that ? Examples ? What if the table balance IS affected ? > > Use proxy a player. Ok. > If that's not possible, award partial VPs, 1-6 pool, etc. Ok. Well, we gave 0,5 Vps and 3 pool, sounds correct then. > > I wasn't head judge on that tournie, but at the table apparently there was a > > change of places, which led to the position at the moment of the withdraw. > > If the player just "disappears", it penalizes his predator. Does he still > > not get any compensation ? > > He gets whatever his position indicates. Position ? What do you mean ? Like, in tantric yoga ? Orpheus, tantric.

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:57:23 +0100, "Orpheus" <orph...@NOSPAMfree.fr> scrawled: >"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> a écrit dans le message de news: >3FDDAEDE...@white-wolf.com... >> He gets whatever his position indicates. > >Position ? What do you mean ? Like, in tantric yoga ? like, if the guy that just left was just about to be ousted anyway, you'd probably give the predator 1 vp and 5 or 6 pool. If it was, say, turn 2 of the game, you might just give nothing to the predator. if he was really strong and looking to hammer his prey soon, and in no danger of being ousted by his predator at all you might give the predator 0 vps, and give the prey a small penalty, perhaps. basically, the judge uses his judgement to decide what 'adjustment' needs to be made to make it as fair as possible. salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm

"Orpheus" <orph...@NOSPAMfree.fr> wrote in message news:<3fdda168$0$7164$626a...@news.free.fr>... > > Orpheus wrote: > > > 3.1.4. Withdrawing from an Event > > *SNIP* > > The judge ensures that the table balance is not unduly affected, and play > > continues. > > How does he do that ? Examples ? What if the table balance IS affected ? > > > Thanks for clarifying the subject with more details, > Early departure is a big problem: normally I don't tolerate it (and if someone leave the tournment without a good reason he lose all rights to receive a prize). The predator doesn't gain anything from the early departure of his prey. The player who leave the game without announcing it before the seating order is estabilished lose all rights on prizes and that's all. We have had such problem also during the EC in Barcelona and those are the examples and I hope to remember correctly what the Barcelona EC judges (and I was one of them with LSJ and Damnans) have decided for 2 problems similar to early departure: PROBLEM 1 2 players are very late in a table of 5. To keep the balance, if the table is reduced under the 4 players the "table winner" (if one comes out) gains as much points as he has partecipated to a table of 4. There are only 3 players (A,B,C). A make a points and then C oust A. A gets 1 point, B 0 points, C gets 3 points and a GW (instead of 2 and a GW). I don't remember because the problem was solved before the deadline for the beginning of the round (the players arrived). PROBLEM 2 A player leave a games because he want to concede (he has no vamp at all and very small pool). To keep the balance a judge will mantain a count of how much pool the leaving player has. His predator has only to bleed 'till he kills his prey then he get the point and 6 pools. Best deranges to all who read! RavATwoFaces

> PROBLEM 2 > A player leave a games because he want to concede (he has no vamp at > all and very small pool). > > To keep the balance a judge will mantain a count of how much pool the > leaving player has. His predator has only to bleed 'till he kills his > prey then he get the point and 6 pools. We thought about it, and my Tremere Harpy said a very exact thing : that gives a great advantage to the prey of the departing, because he gets no pressure for some turns. So "disparition" with some (or no) pool / VPs to predator looks like the best thing to me. Thanks for all your inputs, Orpheus

"Orpheus" <orph...@NOSPAMfree.fr> wrote in message news:<3fde0d82$0$1169$636a...@news.free.fr>... [ quoted text not captured ] He wouldn't have had some pressure anyway, as said leaving player had no vamps. The first solution (counting pool and presuming the player is still there but never acts or blocks) is the best one. IMHO.

> > > PROBLEM 2 > > > A player leave a games because he want to concede (he has no vamp at > > > all and very small pool). > > > > > > To keep the balance a judge will mantain a count of how much pool the > > > leaving player has. His predator has only to bleed 'till he kills his > > > prey then he get the point and 6 pools. > > > > We thought about it, and my Tremere Harpy said a very exact thing : that > > gives a great advantage to the prey of the departing, because he gets no > > pressure for some turns. So "disparition" with some (or no) pool / VPs to > > predator looks like the best thing to me. > > > > Thanks for all your inputs, > > > > Orpheus > > He wouldn't have had some pressure anyway, as said leaving player had > no vamps. The first solution (counting pool and presuming the player > is still there but never acts or blocks) is the best one. IMHO. Oh, yes, but in the game I'm taling about there were vamps. So, the 2 cases need different solutions, I'd say... Orpheus

"Orpheus" <orph...@NOSPAMfree.fr> wrote in message news:<3fdf69f1$0$7160$626a...@news.free.fr>... > PROBLEM 2 > > Oh, yes, but in the game I'm taling about there were vamps. So, the 2 cases > need different solutions, I'd say... > > Orpheus You have asked examples... I've given you 2. As I've said you can't cover all the aspects for a "withdrawing from an event" Or you have to add a billion pages to the rule. It's up to the judge giving a solution to that problem... and he must consider a lot of factors... but the predator NORMALLY will not gain points for a player who leave the game in the middle. Cancelling him from the seating order normally is a good solution: the judge can't make decisions on "guessing" like: if he stay here 2 more turns I oust him... he can't go backwards but he can make a lot of pressure to his prey... OK! It's not the BEST solution but, for what I know, it's the only good solution... Oh! If the withdrawing happened in the first 10-15 minutes of a game, for me it's possible to begin the game again without that player (adding 15 minutes to the time limit of that table).... but only if no points are already scored. RavATwoFaces

"Orpheus" <orph...@NOSPAMfree.fr> wrote in message news:<3fdf69f1$0$7160$626a...@news.free.fr>... [ quoted text not captured ] Of course. But i thought were were just talking about "Problem 2" here ...