[Strategy Event] Absimilard's Army and KMW

Having now seen the majority of the KMW set, I began to wonder how best to incorporate the new Trophy and Red List rules that it introduces into an effective deck. Red List: The ideal Red List candidate is not difficult to turn into a Red Listed vampire, thus it must be a vampire of small capacity or an ally. Similarly, that minion should have as little combat capacity as possible, so as not to be a threat that hits back. Since it is impossible to stack a deck so that any of these conditions are met (we cannot force a Methuselah to play with weak allies or small cap vampires), we are left with with one of two options: We can either a) Red List the weakest link of our predator or prey and chase it down or b) give our predator or prey the opportunity to create allies for us to chase down. At the moment most thoughts have centred around a), this strategy article differs, however, and talks about b). How then do we force our predator or prey (mostly our prey) to create allies? Answer: Absimilard's Army "Gehenna. Do not replace until a Methuselah is ousted. Requires at least one other Gehenna card in play. During each Methuselah's untap phase, he or she may put the top card of his or her library in play. That card represents a ghoul ally with 2 life, 2 strength, and 1 bleed. If the ally is burned, it is removed from the game. When a Methuselah is ousted, burn this card. Remove all such allies from the game when this card leaves play." While the minions created by AA are stronger than some, having 2 life and 2 strength, most decks will not have any combat support for them, meaning that they are succeptable to magnums. The advantage of allies as RL targets is that there is no pesky need for diablerie - this conserves both actions and or card slots for such nuissances as comitting a risky diablerie or packing amaranth. Low capacity titled vampires can take the action to RL allies, removing the need for high capacity titled vampires. Though you may expect Big Game to see play in such a deck, its lack of stealth hurts. In addition to the cardless marking method to enter combat, I suggest a card that hasn't seen a lot of use: Purity of the Beast "Requires a ready vampire. +1 stealth action. (D) Enter combat with an ally controlled by your prey. The acting vampire gets +2 strength for the duration of this combat." Now you may have noticed a problem: What if your prey doesn't create any Armylings? The answer is you overrun them with your Armylings. This places them in a situation where they need to make them in order to keep up with yours. When they do, you burn them, and reap your trophy reward. A second problem: "requires at least one other Gehenna card" Blood Trade serves as the universal 'filler' Event, requiring no hand size reduction and possessing a rather negligeable ability. Looking through the Events I could not find any other that were of particular use to the strategy - The Unmasking gives them intercept, which doesn't suit when you're using a deck with +1 stealth rushes. Trophies: On to trophies, and which ones are particularly good with this kind of deck. I suppose that I should preface this section by saying that a good splash of trophies is worthwhile - different trophies are useful against different deck types. Against a rush predator Safe Passage is very helpful if you've got a core vampire, while Clan Loyalty might be good if you're power bleeding a mono-clan deck. It's very usefull to give Domain to someone with a lot of blood and a gun, as that vampire can single handedly fight off whatever AA hoard lies behind you. Since blood is always handy Hunting Ground cannot be ignored. As it is inevitable that you're going to want to eat a vampire at some time, a single Diablerie can at 2 stealth and no BH prove incredibly useful. The one that I believe I value the highest though is Trophy: Progeny: "Master. Trophy. If this card would be moved to a non-sterile vampire, that vampire's controller takes control of it instead, and it becomes a non-unique vampire of the same clan as that vampire with 2 capacity. He or she may go through his or her library (shuffle afterwards), ash heap or hand to find a Discipline card for this new vampire. Move 2 blood from the blood bank to this new vampire." Not only does it give an up to 3 capacity minion with a basic discipline, it also makes it the same clan as the Trophied vampire (good for !Tor and Palle Grande), and provides 2 blood for no effort. There is no need to hunt, and they can act immediately. Since you can play them as master cards, you may have two or three out that trigger simultaneously, giving you a stupid leap in minions (Consanguinous Boon => Voter Cap, anyone?). Sample Deck: Deck Name: KMW Experiment 2 Created By: DR Description: Using Marcus Vitel as your titled vamp and many small cap !Malks create a sabbat army to defeat your foe... Using Absimilard's Army and KMW Trophy tech. Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 13, Max: 40, Avg: 6.42) ---------------------------------------------- 5 Marcus Vitel DOM FOR OBF OBT PRE 10, Ventrue, Prince 2 Roger Farnsworth aus OBF 4, Malkavian antitribu 1 Yorik dem obf 3, Malkavian antitribu 1 Boy Toy dem 2, Malkavian antitribu 2 General Perfidio Dios dem obf AUS 5, Malkavian antitribu, Bishop 1 Idalia AUS dem 4, Malkavian antitribu Library: (90 cards) ------------------- Master (28 cards) 1 Auspex 3 Blood Doll 1 Dreams of the Sphinx 1 Fragment of the Book of Nod 1 Hungry Coyote, The 7 Obfuscate 2 Parthenon, The 1 Specialization 1 Trophy: Diablerie 1 Trophy: Domain 1 Trophy: Hunting Ground 7 Trophy: Progeny 1 Trophy: Safe Passage Action (19 cards) 1 Anima Gathering 2 Computer Hacking 2 Conquer the Beast 1 Entrancement 2 Kindred Spirits 4 Red List 7 Sibyl`s Tongue Action Modifier (16 cards) 7 Faceless Night 2 Freak Drive 7 Lost in Crowds Reaction (4 cards) 4 Deflection Combat (7 cards) 7 Concealed Weapon Equipment (8 cards) 1 Enchanted Marionette 7 .44 Magnum Combo (4 cards) 4 Swallowed by the Night To be perfectly honest, this deck is rough, entirely untested, and likely far less refined than it ought to be. Regardless, it's out there for critique, and if anyone has any better ideas, I'm more than willing to listen. Marcus Vitel is the keystone because he gives all of your minions (and you should be making like baby !Malks) get +1 bleed against Camarilla vamps, though his capacity is unecessarily high. It might be better in fact to find a low cap !Toreador and Palle Grande with them (quarterbacked by Ian Wallingford). In fact... that seems like a much better idea - I'll make that one next. Deck Name: KMW Experiment 3 Created By: DR Description: Much like number 2, this deck uses AA and RLs allies to make minions. Use Palle Grande to give them all + bleed and go to town. Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 14, Max: 26, Avg: 5.25) ---------------------------------------------- 3 Ian Wallingford aus CEL PRE 6, Toreador antitribu, Bishop 2 Jessica AUS CEL OBT PRE 7, Toreador antitribu, Bishop 1 Carter cel 2, Toreador antitribu 1 Lolita for pre 3, Toreador antitribu 1 Remilliard AUS pre 4, Toreador antitribu 1 Cristos Mantigo aus cel dom obf pre 5, Toreador antitribu 1 Creamy Jade aus cel PRE vic 5, Toreador antitribu 2 Jost Werner ani AUS PRE 6, Toreador antitribu Library: (90 cards) ------------------- Master (36 cards) 1 Barrens, The 3 Blood Doll 2 Dreams of the Sphinx 5 Fortschritt Library 1 Hungry Coyote, The 3 Palla Grande 2 Parthenon, The 8 Presence 1 Specialization 1 Trophy: Diablerie 1 Trophy: Domain 8 Trophy: Progeny Action (24 cards) 4 Enchant Kindred 4 Entrancement 2 Intimidation 2 Legal Manipulations 2 Mind Numb 6 Red List 2 Social Charm 2 Purity of the Beast Action Modifier (4 cards) 4 Aire of Elation Reaction (4 cards) 2 Quicken Sight 2 Wake with Evening`s Freshness Combat (11 cards) 7 Concealed Weapon 4 Pursuit Equipment (7 cards) 7 .44 Magnum Though I haven't taken the time to make a deck like this, I'm certain the theory is sound. I've been poking around on the Path of Blood asking about how people have reacted to an AA hitting the table, and it seems like universally people do take advantage of it, making this notion viable enough to try. Please let me know what you think, what means could be used to economise/generally improve the concept. Regards, Derek Rawlings

Derek Rawlings wrote: > Having now seen the majority of the KMW set, I began to wonder how best > to incorporate the new Trophy and Red List rules that it introduces into > an effective deck. (snip article) Cool idea. Though you might want to put some Absimiliard's Armys in those decks :) (and Blood Trade too). Tension in the Ranks too. When you burn an AA ghoul, your prey loses a pool.

> Cool idea. > > Though you might want to put some Absimiliard's Armys in those decks :) > (and Blood Trade too). Drat... I need to stop using ELDB. There are: 2x Absimilard's Army 2x Blood Trade In each of the two decks... ELDB doesn't seem to want to print out Events to its text files. > Tension in the Ranks too. When you burn an AA ghoul, your prey loses a > pool. Had thought about that... just seems like I unthought about it between then and the time I made the decks. Any more advice? Does the deck look balanced for cards? DR

[ quoted text not captured ] Red List: [ quoted text not captured ] Answer: Absimilard's Army [ quoted text not captured ] Purity of the Beast [ quoted text not captured ] Trophies: [ quoted text not captured ] Sample Deck: [ quoted text not captured ] Events (4 cards) 2 Absimilard's Army 2 Blood Trade [ quoted text not captured ] Events (4 cards) 2 Absimilard's Army 2 Blood Trade [ quoted text not captured ]

Derek Rawlings wrote: > Answer: Absimilard's Army > > "Gehenna. Do not replace until a Methuselah is ousted. Requires at least > one other Gehenna card in play. During each Methuselah's untap phase, he > or she may put the top card of his or her library in play. That card > represents a ghoul ally with 2 life, 2 strength, and 1 bleed. If the > ally is burned, it is removed from the game. When a Methuselah is > ousted, burn this card. Remove all such allies from the game when this > card leaves play." > Now you may have noticed a problem: What if your prey doesn't create any > Armylings? The answer is you overrun them with your Armylings. This > places them in a situation where they need to make them in order to keep > up with yours. When they do, you burn them, and reap your trophy > reward. Of course another major problem with this technique is that it is only valid as long as a player has not been ousted. If a player is ousted too early while this card is in play (say cross-table for example), then the entire concept sort of crumbles. Alternatively, say that no one else (especially your prey) bothers with creating Armylings. Your solution is to overrun them. This might be helpful in securing your first VP, but then the Army goes away, as do all of your Armylings. You lose all of those minions and your deck is now full of cards (Trophies, etc.) you cannot effectively use. - Eric Chiang P.S. In honor of Noal, I still say Uriah is the way to go! ;)

<echia...@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht news:1110782247.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > P.S. In honor of Noal, I still say Uriah is the way to go! ;) > or to keep advantages of Red listing an ally: caiaphas Smith. in your turn you can recruit CS and make him Red list. During your next untap phase he goes to your predator. mark, do not get blocked by CS and destroy him (remember he has a maneuver and can strike for 1 R). collect you trophy's.

"Jeroen Rombouts" <jeroen....@NOSPAMpandora.be> schreef in bericht news:qseZd.37415$nI.33...@phobos.telenet-ops.be... [ quoted text not captured ] what I forgot to mention: trumped up charges gives you extra votes to pass it, if you control red list minions.

Jeroen Rombouts wrote: > what I forgot to mention: trumped up charges gives you extra votes to pass > it, if you control red list minions. Who controls red list minions doesn't matter. The target minion's controller gets additional votes for every red list on the table, regardless of who those red listers' controllers are. -- LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply) Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

[ quoted text not captured ] Nice, but you have to wait a turn. An ally isn't ready the turn you reqruit it. Sten During

"LSJ" <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> schreef in bericht news:t_eZd.3418$qf2....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net... > Jeroen Rombouts wrote: >> what I forgot to mention: trumped up charges gives you extra votes to >> pass it, if you control red list minions. > > Who controls red list minions doesn't matter. > The target minion's controller gets additional votes for every red list on > the > table, regardless of who those red listers' controllers are. > even better :-)

"Sten Düring" <ya...@netg.se> schreef in bericht news:1110803226.a8de153f59ac250e59b363536c4ef79c@teranews... [ quoted text not captured ] IIRC, he cannot act, but he is ready.

"Jeroen Rombouts" <jeroen....@NOSPAMpandora.be> wrote in message news:kyfZd.37448$Cz6.3...@phobos.telenet-ops.be... > "Sten Düring" <ya...@netg.se> schreef in bericht > > Nice, but you have to wait a turn. An ally isn't ready the turn you > > reqruit it. > > > IIRC, he cannot act, but he is ready. He is not ready (i.e., he is not in the ready region). -- LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (Remove spam trap to reply). V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu

LSJ wrote: > "Jeroen Rombouts" <jeroen....@NOSPAMpandora.be> wrote in message > news:kyfZd.37448$Cz6.3...@phobos.telenet-ops.be... >> "Sten Düring" <ya...@netg.se> schreef in bericht >> > Nice, but you have to wait a turn. An ally isn't ready the turn you >> > reqruit it. >> > >> IIRC, he cannot act, but he is ready. > > He is not ready (i.e., he is not in the ready region). Which reminds me of a question I had: can an ally be tapped to activate some effect (Rom Gypsy's tap-for-stealth, for example) on the turn it's brought into play? I assume yes, since the ally *is* controlled at that point, just not ready. //Petri

"Petri Wessman" <nos...@orava.org> wrote in message news:ztgZd.154$3F2...@reader1.news.jippii.net... > Which reminds me of a question I had: can an ally be tapped to activate some > effect (Rom Gypsy's tap-for-stealth, for example) on the turn it's brought > into play? I assume yes, since the ally *is* controlled at that point, just > not ready. Yes. Check out the analysis at google: "ally tap turn author:LSJ" [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ wrote: > "Jeroen Rombouts" <jeroen....@NOSPAMpandora.be> wrote in message news:kyfZd.37448$Cz6.3...@phobos.telenet-ops.be... > >>"Sten Düring" <ya...@netg.se> schreef in bericht >> >>>Nice, but you have to wait a turn. An ally isn't ready the turn you >>>reqruit it. >>> >> >>IIRC, he cannot act, but he is ready. > > He is not ready (i.e., he is not in the ready region). ??? I thought an ally was ready from the time they were recruited. You can certainly use "tap to" effects from an ally (eg, Vagabond Mystic) the turn they're recruited... --Colin McGuigan

"Colin McGuigan" <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message news:xJednS6JO87...@speakeasy.net... > LSJ wrote: > > He is not ready (i.e., he is not in the ready region). > > ??? I thought an ally was ready from the time they were recruited. You http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec6_1_5 > can certainly use "tap to" effects from an ally (eg, Vagabond Mystic) > the turn they're recruited... True, but unrelated to being ready -- vampires can also use "tap to" effects when they are unready. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ wrote: > "Colin McGuigan" <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message news:xJednS6JO87...@speakeasy.net... > >>LSJ wrote: >> >>>He is not ready (i.e., he is not in the ready region). >> >>??? I thought an ally was ready from the time they were recruited. You > > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec6_1_5 Always thought that was just a symbolic gesture to remind the player it couldn't act. Does this mean if I bring a Werewolf Pack into play, I cannot play Abomination ("Burn an untapped werewolf ally [...] in your ready region") on it that turn as well? --Colin McGuigan

"Colin McGuigan" <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message news:vJidnZi4h_g...@speakeasy.net... > LSJ wrote: > > "Colin McGuigan" <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message news:xJednS6JO87...@speakeasy.net... > >>LSJ wrote: > >>>He is not ready (i.e., he is not in the ready region). > >> > >>??? I thought an ally was ready from the time they were recruited. You > > > > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec6_1_5 > > Always thought that was just a symbolic gesture to remind the player it > couldn't act. It symbolizes that, yes, by way of avoiding the ready region (and thereby avoiding being considered "ready", since the two are the same). > Does this mean if I bring a Werewolf Pack into play, I cannot play > Abomination ("Burn an untapped werewolf ally [...] in your ready > region") on it that turn as well? Well, that's more just plain card text rather than a question of whether something not in the ready region can be considered ready, since it says "in your ready region" explicitly rather than just "ready werewolf", but yes. Google: "abomination ready author:LSJ" [ quoted text not captured ]

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> schreef in bericht news:39ltp3F...@individual.net... > "Colin McGuigan" <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message > news:vJidnZi4h_g...@speakeasy.net... >> LSJ wrote: >> > "Colin McGuigan" <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message >> > news:xJednS6JO87...@speakeasy.net... >> >>LSJ wrote: >> >>>He is not ready (i.e., he is not in the ready region). >> >> >> >>??? I thought an ally was ready from the time they were recruited. You >> > >> > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec6_1_5 >> >> Always thought that was just a symbolic gesture to remind the player it >> couldn't act. > > It symbolizes that, yes, by way of avoiding the ready region (and > thereby avoiding being considered "ready", since the two are the > same). > This was the part that confused me too. I also thought that putting the ally in the uncontrolled region was just a reminder. Does this mean that a hypothecical ally with the text: "when ready you can tap (name) to do x" cannot use this ability? It probably does, then. oh well, live and learn

"Jeroen Rombouts" <jeroen....@NOSPAMpandora.be> wrote in message news:9hAZd.38144$Se.32...@phobos.telenet-ops.be... > "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> schreef in bericht > > "Colin McGuigan" <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message > >> Always thought that was just a symbolic gesture to remind the player it > >> couldn't act. > > > > It symbolizes that, yes, by way of avoiding the ready region (and > > thereby avoiding being considered "ready", since the two are the > > same). > > > This was the part that confused me too. I also thought that putting the > ally in the uncontrolled region was just a reminder. Does this mean that a It is just a reminder. Just like turning a contested vampire face down is just a reminder that he is contested (and therefore out of play except wrt to being further contested). Such a vampire would also be counted among the not ready. And moving a vampire to torpor is just a reminder that he is not ready, but still controlled. And so on. The entire game state is just a bunch of reminders. > hypothecical ally with the text: "when ready you can tap (name) to do x" > cannot use this ability? It probably does, then. Yes. The ally who is not ready (not in the ready region) is not ready (not in the ready region). [ quoted text not captured ]