Tom,
If I found myself with a couple of Flame Throwers and Assault Rifles
in my hand, with Darius ready, could I have Darius take his special
ability action in thie hopes of equipping him with one of those
items for free?
(Actually, I think this card needs errata to say "from any Methuselah's
hand except his controller's")
--
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | These opinions are mine and
http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | are subject to card text.
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |
L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote:
>If I found myself with a couple of Flame Throwers and Assault Rifles
>in my hand, with Darius ready, could I have Darius take his special
>ability action in thie hopes of equipping him with one of those
>items for free?
>
>(Actually, I think this card needs errata to say "from any Methuselah's
>hand except his controller's")
(D) actions may not be taken against yourself unless the card specifically
indicates otherwise, which Darius does not, so no, you can't try to grab
your own equipment.
Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for
aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Thomas R Wylie (aa...@cats.ucsc.edu) wrote:
: (D) actions may not be taken against yourself unless the card specifically: indicates otherwise, which Darius does not, so no, you can't try to grab
: your own equipment.
You have mentioned this 'no (D) actions against yourself' thing several
times now. Doesn't this make Pentex Subversion rather... obscene... for
the cost of only 2 blood?
Pentex Subversion Master 2 pool
UNIQUE MASTER. Put this card on any ready minion. This minion cannot
take any further actions and he or she cannot block actions until this
card is burned. This card may be burned by any minion as a (D) action.
For the cost of 2 blood, you _totally_ remove one of my vampires from the
game; since the card does not say I can take this (D) action against
myself, then I must convince someone else to do it for me...
I agree that if I _could_ take this action against myself, it would be
rather trivial to get around it, but it would still work well in some
situations (i.e. I've sent all the rest of your vampires to torpor.)
This way, however... Yuck.
Shane H.W. Travis | I try to take one day at a time,
tra...@duke.usask.ca | but sometimes several days attack at once.
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | -- Ashleigh Brilliant
In article <4as3fv$4...@tribune.usask.ca>,
Shane Travis <tra...@duke.usask.ca> wrote:
>Thomas R Wylie (aa...@cats.ucsc.edu) wrote:
>
>: (D) actions may not be taken against yourself unless the card specifically
>: indicates otherwise, which Darius does not, so no, you can't try to grab
>: your own equipment.
>
>You have mentioned this 'no (D) actions against yourself' thing several
>times now. Doesn't this make Pentex Subversion rather... obscene... for
>the cost of only 2 blood?
>
>Pentex Subversion Master 2 pool
> UNIQUE MASTER. Put this card on any ready minion. This minion cannot
> take any further actions and he or she cannot block actions until this
> card is burned. This card may be burned by any minion as a (D) action.
>
>For the cost of 2 blood, you _totally_ remove one of my vampires from the
>game; since the card does not say I can take this (D) action against
>myself, then I must convince someone else to do it for me...
>
>I agree that if I _could_ take this action against myself, it would be
>rather trivial to get around it, but it would still work well in some
>situations (i.e. I've sent all the rest of your vampires to torpor.)
>This way, however... Yuck.
I believe:
The (D) action to burn is directed at the Methuselah
who played Pentex in the first place, despite the fact
that Pentex is played *on* a vampire.
--
-----
L. Scott Johnson (lsc...@crl.com) | The opinions expressed are mine
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger | and subject to card text
In article <4as3fv$4...@tribune.usask.ca>, tra...@duke.usask.ca (Shane
Travis) wrote:
> Thomas R Wylie (aa...@cats.ucsc.edu) wrote:
>
> : (D) actions may not be taken against yourself unless the card specifically
> : indicates otherwise, which Darius does not, so no, you can't try to grab
> : your own equipment.
>
> You have mentioned this 'no (D) actions against yourself' thing several
> times now. Doesn't this make Pentex Subversion rather... obscene... for
> the cost of only 2 blood?
>
> Pentex Subversion Master 2 pool
> UNIQUE MASTER. Put this card on any ready minion. This minion cannot
> take any further actions and he or she cannot block actions until this
> card is burned. This card may be burned by any minion as a (D) action.
>
> For the cost of 2 blood, you _totally_ remove one of my vampires from the
> game; since the card does not say I can take this (D) action against
> myself, then I must convince someone else to do it for me...
I would rule that Pentex Subversion, while in your area, is still
controlled by the Methuselah who played it. Therefore, you take the (D)
action aginst him.
J. Andrew Lipscomb <ew...@chattanooga.net, them...@delphi.com>
PGP keys by request
Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian.
In article <4atjij$t...@tribune.usask.ca>,
Shane Travis <tra...@duke.usask.ca> wrote:
[Lots about inconsistant (D) action targets snipped]
>
>Anyone got any bright ideas?
>
Yeah. WotC writes their V:tES (and Jyhad) rules by creating a dozen different
intuitive, comprehensive rule sets, then taping each separate rule from each
to the wall and throwing darts at them while blindfolded. :-)
Actually, it would explain a lot, wouldn't it?
gnfnrff
> Louvre, Paris, The Master Toreador 2 pool
> UNIQUE LOCATION. Tap this card to tap any Toreador. If you control the
> Prince of Paris, you may tap this card to tap any minion in play.
> This location may be stolen by any minion for his or her controller as
> a (D) action.
>
> Against whom is the (D) actin taken? Intuitive answer is the Methuselah
> who currently controls the card. Following the logic on the aformentioned
> two cards, however, one would take the action against the Meth who
> brought out The Louvre, which makes _no_ sense.>
> Anyone got any bright ideas?
>> Shane H.W. Travis | I try to take one day at a time,
> tra...@duke.usask.ca | but sometimes several days attack at once.
> Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | -- Ashleigh Brilliant
I would basically say, that first you have to use some common sense and
think (Damn). In the cases were 1 player has control of the cards (The
Louvre) it makes sense that the directed action is against that player.
In other cases where the card is played on other player's vampires
(usually at least) the directed action should be against the methuselah
who played it, because noone controls it. (Or maybe if you use a
comparison from Magic, the methuselah who plays it controls it)
This is basically the only way I can see that makes sense, and the way
I've read all the cards.
L. Scott Johnson (lsc...@crl.com) wrote:
: I believe:: The (D) action to burn is directed at the Methuselah
: who played Pentex in the first place, despite the fact
: that Pentex is played *on* a vampire.
Hmmm... that would make _some_ sense, but not a whole lot. Looking
through the list to find parallels, I came up with one that is close;
Shackles of Enkidu Equipment Gangrel 2 pool
UNIQUE EQUIPMENT. Before range is chosen in a round of combat, you may
put the Shackles on any minion opposing the vampire with this card.
Combat Ends. The Shackled minion does not untap during his or her
untap phases; he or she burns 2 blood during each of your untap phases.
Any minion may burn this card as a (D) action.
Against whom does the vampire take the (D) action; the Methuselah who
controls the Vampire who is shackled, or the Meth who played out the
shackles in the first place?
There are a _lot_ of cards in DS that allow (D) actions to burn them;
in the case of some, like Malkavian Seven Miseries, the target of the (D)
action is intuitively obvious.
Malkavian Seven Miseries, The Master Malkavian 1 pool
Put this card in play. Any minion attempting a political action gets -1
stealth. This card may be burned by any ready minion who is not
Tremere as a (D) action.
In others, however, one can hazard a guess at the target, but depending
on how Shackles and Subversion are ruled, the situation could become very
sticky;
[ quoted text not captured ]
>>Pentex Subversion Master 2 pool
>> UNIQUE MASTER. Put this card on any ready minion. This minion cannot
>> take any further actions and he or she cannot block actions until this
>> card is burned. This card may be burned by any minion as a (D) action.
>>
>>For the cost of 2 blood, you _totally_ remove one of my vampires from the
>>game; since the card does not say I can take this (D) action against
>>myself, then I must convince someone else to do it for me...
Read the card,THIS CARD MAY BE BURNED BY ANY MINION AS A (D) ACTION, I
think that sentence says it all don't you,do you not think that this
allows you to take the action against yourself,or one of your other
minions. Once again you guys are over anyalizing(sp).
Errol T
Shane Travis <tra...@duke.usask.ca> wrote:
>: (D) actions may not be taken against yourself unless the card specifically
>: indicates otherwise, which Darius does not, so no, you can't try to grab
>: your own equipment.
>You have mentioned this 'no (D) actions against yourself' thing several
>times now. Doesn't this make Pentex Subversion rather... obscene... for
>the cost of only 2 blood?
No...
>For the cost of 2 blood, you _totally_ remove one of my vampires from the
>game; since the card does not say I can take this (D) action against
>myself, then I must convince someone else to do it for me...
No. If I play Pentex Subversion on your vampire, you do not control
the PS. I do, just as with any master card I play. If you took an
action to burn it, you'd be taking an action against me, not yourself;
I would be the player with the opportunity to block.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Shane Travis <tra...@duke.usask.ca> wrote:
>Shackles of Enkidu Equipment Gangrel 2 pool
> UNIQUE EQUIPMENT. Before range is chosen in a round of combat, you may
> put the Shackles on any minion opposing the vampire with this card.
> Combat Ends. The Shackled minion does not untap during his or her
> untap phases; he or she burns 2 blood during each of your untap phases.
> Any minion may burn this card as a (D) action.
>
>Against whom does the vampire take the (D) action; the Methuselah who
>controls the Vampire who is shackled, or the Meth who played out the
>shackles in the first place?
The player who puts the shackles on a minion continues to control the shackles
(errata, by the way). That is the player who would block the action
to burn the Shackles.
>There are a _lot_ of cards in DS that allow (D) actions to burn them;
>in the case of some, like Malkavian Seven Miseries, the target of the (D)>action is intuitively obvious...>In others, however, one can hazard a guess at the target, but depending
>on how Shackles and Subversion are ruled, the situation could become very>sticky...>
>Louvre, Paris, The Master Toreador 2 pool
> UNIQUE LOCATION. Tap this card to tap any Toreador. If you control the
> Prince of Paris, you may tap this card to tap any minion in play.
> This location may be stolen by any minion for his or her controller as
> a (D) action.
>
>Against whom is the (D) actin taken? Intuitive answer is the Methuselah
>who currently controls the card. Following the logic on the aformentioned
>two cards, however, one would take the action against the Meth who
>brought out The Louvre, which makes _no_ sense.
The (D) action is taken agains the person who controls the location, yes.
The same is true of Subervsion and the Shackles; in both cases,
the person who plays the card for its effect is the one who controls
it, so would be the one to block.
[ quoted text not captured ]