Heidleburg- Ban It?

Should Heidleburg be banned? Is there any other there card since Succubus club that allowed a 22 blood swing?

[ quoted text not captured ] Not blocking actions should be banned.

[ quoted text not captured ] Life Boon. -witness1

[ quoted text not captured ] Good Point, perhaps I should rephrase the question. Should Heidleburg be banned?

[ quoted text not captured ] Um, no? -witness1

[ quoted text not captured ] Temptation of Greater Power... best - chris

[ quoted text not captured ] Amaranth? Clearly, diablerie should be banned since it can swing massive amounts of blood _and_ destroys a minion - obviously it's much worse than PTO! /sarcasm -John Flournoy

On Jan 12, 1:05 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > Should Heidleburg be banned? No. Ban Temptation, Mind Rape and Spirit Marionette. Heidelberg isn't the problem. Minion stealing is. Jeff

[ quoted text not captured ] Minion stealing is just not fun for the steal-ee. But it's been part of the game since Jyhad. I'm not clear it's a problem. Annoying to the victim, yes - but a problem? best - chris

In article <1cd2c5e4-0aef-4f34...@t11g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>, XZealot <xze...@cox.net> wrote: > Good Point, perhaps I should rephrase the question. > > Should Heidleburg be banned? I suspect not. But perhaps if you would expound some, someone might be convinced... Peter D Bakija pd...@lightlink.com http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?" -Gaff

In article <gkgesq$sr2$1...@news.motzarella.org>, librarian <auct...@superfuncards.com> wrote: > > No. Ban Temptation, Mind Rape and Spirit Marionette. > > > > Heidelberg isn't the problem. Minion stealing is. > > > > Jeff > > Minion stealing is just not fun for the steal-ee. But it's been part of > the game since Jyhad. I'm not clear it's a problem. Annoying to the > victim, yes - but a problem? Yeah, I'm not wildly convinced that stealing guys is a huge issue. I mean, yeah, it blows a lot of the time, but many things do. The ones that steal guys most often are all kind of self correcting (other than "block the action" or "DI them"): -Temptation: If you are stealing someone with Temptation and getting that much blood off of them with Heidleburg, it took them, what, 11 turns to save up enough counters? That is plenty of time to either take the blood off, use it, or win the game. -Mind Rape: This is the brutal one, but at least you have a turn to do something about all the blood you are about to lose (Minion Tap or burn the Heidleburg or spend the blood or something). With Enkil Cog, it is kind of a particularly brutal combo, but then you need to have Enkil Cog *and* Heidleburg *and* Mind Rape *and* stealth to get the action through all the same time. I suspect that this particular horror show will fail to work far more often than it won't. -Spirit Marionette: If there is someone on the table with OBE and Heidleburg, be sure to keep all you big guys tapped. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Jan 12, 10:19 pm, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > > -Temptation: If you are stealing someone with Temptation and getting > that much blood off of them with Heidleburg, it took them, what, 11 > turns to save up enough counters? Not if you've Mind Raped them first, then it gets a lot faster. Form of Corruption is well worth a mention too, you know, whilst we're listing Cards That I Love (TM). Matt Green

On Jan 12, 5:19 pm, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > -Mind Rape: This is the brutal one, but at least you have a turn to do > something about all the blood you are about to lose (Minion Tap or burn > the Heidleburg or spend the blood or something). Well, spending the blood is kinda hard since Mind Rape taps you and makes you not untap as normal on the turn you have to do something about it. -witness1

[ quoted text not captured ] Heidelberg works ;D

On Jan 12, 5:31 pm, witness1 <jwnewqu...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > Well, spending the blood is kinda hard since Mind Rape taps you and > makes you not untap as normal on the turn you have to do something > about it. True, true. You can always wake and deflect 10 times. Or Force of Will/ Monkey Wrench/Freak Drive/Rescue self from Torpor. And on the upside, if you get AI'ed when bleeding for 5+, you get to spite hose the Mind Rape :-)

Jeff Kuta <jeff...@gmail.com> wrote: > XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: >> Should Heidleburg be banned? > > No. Ban Temptation, Mind Rape and Spirit Marionette. > > Heidelberg isn't the problem. Minion stealing is. You don't really believe that, do you Jeff? I mean, you'll get minion stealing banned and then pretty soon you'll be complaining about (D) actions against your minions. ;) Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/ Las Vegas NAQ 2009! http://members.cox.net/vtesinlv/

> -Spirit Marionette: If there is someone on the table with OBE and > Heidleburg, be sure to keep all you big guys tapped. And hope they don't have Precognizant Mobilities. Or Blasters :) jase

In article <2fe0f194-9e5a-455e...@t26g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, GreenO <mgre...@googlemail.com> wrote: > Not if you've Mind Raped them first, then it gets a lot faster. Well, sure. But then that is the Mind Rape that is killing you, not the Temptation. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Banning this would be a gross over-reaction. I've never seen anyone else complain about this card, it is used infrequently for the most. The best thing about V:TES is the relatively few banned cards. I would prefer to see an errata or new card that nerfs it slightly than it getting banned. Saying that I'd rather not see anything happen to it because I truly don't see a problem with it. Yes, if a minion is stolen then this can be hideous. But then, the problem isn't with this card is it. --> J grail_pbem "at" hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/grail_j

On Jan 12, 6:35 pm, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: > Jeff Kuta <jeff.k...@gmail.com> wrote: > > XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > >> Should Heidleburg be banned? > > > No. Ban Temptation, Mind Rape and Spirit Marionette. > > > Heidelberg isn't the problem. Minion stealing is. > > You don't really believe that, do you Jeff? He does have a point. The question shouldn't be whether Heidelburg is broken... it's really pretty tame by itself. It's Mind Rape that can make it broken (other forms of stealing aren't quite as bad... well, except maybe From a Sinking Ship (I really hate that card)). If anything should be banned here (and not saying that anything actually *needs* to be banned), it should be Mind Rape... it's much closer to broken than Heidelburg. Brent Ross

[ quoted text not captured ] Heidelberg has already been nerfed, leave it alone. Poor thing, getting victimised all the time. When you could Heidelberg in the middle of combat, that was utterly broken. Now? It is a mid level utility card that allows a number of different strategies to be competitive

On 12 Jan, 22:05, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > Should Heidleburg be banned? No. Add about 5-6 Wash, some Unnatural disaster and your own Heidelberg to to every deck you play, and soon people in your enviroment will stop building decks that is based on Heidelberg.

[ quoted text not captured ] Nah, they just start using Kine Dominance.

On Jan 13, 11:06 am, J <grai...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > The best thing about V:TES is the relatively few banned cards. This is the best thing about VtES? I wouldn't miss Heidelburg if it went away. It's swingy and fairly abusable, likely in the top 5% of best Master cards and top 5% of best cards. Some cards are strong, but make the game more enjoyable. Especially in VtES, if they add to the multiplayer aspect. Heidelburg is one of those munchkin Johnny/ Spike cards that doesn't contribute much interaction or enjoyment. I get a lot of mileage out of it in my Blood Brothers deck. Hey. Stop picking on the Blood Brothers! Don't go, the drones need you! They look up to you!

Should Heidleburg be banned? Is there any other there card since Succubus club that allowed a 22 blood swing from an opponents vampire to yours with no opportunity for the opponent to interferre?

[ quoted text not captured ] There's not even one. HeidelbErg Castle allows the transfer of blood (and other stuff) only from your own vampire to another of your own vampires.

[ quoted text not captured ] Well, your opponents can interfere by stopping you from stealing their vampire, spending/taking blood off their vampire before you get it, or burning down or stealing or contesting the Heidleburg. -Peter

On Jan 12, 10:05 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > Should Heidleburg be banned? No. Kind regards, Marcus

XZealot <xze...@cox.net> wrote: > Should Heidleburg be banned? > > Is there any other there card since Succubus Club > that allowed a 22 blood swing? Norm, what happened to you that has got you all upset? [ quoted text not captured ]

On Jan 13, 10:02 pm, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Someone mind raped his arika and used her to fill their own Etrius. Or, it being Norm, theys tole his Etrius before the "The Grand Plan" (tm) was completed

On Jan 13, 3:02 pm, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: > XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > > Should Heidleburg be banned? > > > Is there any other there card since Succubus Club > > that allowed a 22 blood swing? > > Norm, what happened to you that has got you all upset? Saulot,who was controlled by my prey, Spirit Marionetted my recently influenced Francois Villion then Heidleburg off 9 of his blood. So in effect he bled me for 9 Pool. I wasn't miffed that I got my vampire yanked, I was miffed that my prey bled me for 9 effectively. I was just thankful that I hadn't put the helicopter on him yet. Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr XZealot Archon of the Swamp

On Jan 13, 4:27 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > I wasn't miffed that I got my vampire yanked, I was miffed that my > prey bled me for 9 effectively. I was just thankful that I hadn't put > the helicopter on him yet. Wasn't this a self correcting problem, as 'cause he bled you for 9, your predator killed you and then him in quick succession? -Peter

[ quoted text not captured ] Well, sure if you are standing on the moon you can be objective, but actually, in the game, it stung alot and seemed rather unfair. But then again, it was Saulot and he did pay 11 for him. So Saulot better do something neato. Anyway.....

On Jan 13, 7:08 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > Well, sure if you are standing on the moon you can be objective, but > actually, in the game, it stung alot and seemed rather unfair. Fair enough. Yeah. I hate when stuff like that happens too :-) > But then again, it was Saulot and he did pay 11 for him. So Saulot > better do something neato. Saulot seems awesome now! -Peter

XZealot <xze...@cox.net> wrote: > Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: >> XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: >> > I wasn't miffed that I got my vampire yanked, I was miffed >> > that my prey bled me for 9 effectively. I was just thankful that >> > I hadn't put the helicopter on him yet. >> >> Wasn't this a self correcting problem, as 'cause he bled you for 9, >> your predator killed you and then him in quick succession? > > Well, sure if you are standing on the moon you can be objective, > but actually, in the game, it stung alot and seemed rather unfair. Norm, you have got to be joking about wanting Heidelburg banned because it "seemed rather unfair" right? I would never before now have said that I thought you were complaining about something. You seem to be a rather tough individual. Seriously, though. You ARE JOKING, right? Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier [ quoted text not captured ]

> > Heidelburg- Ban it? > Fuck no. Why would this card be subject to ban discussion now? > > Saulot,who was controlled by my prey, Spirit Marionetted my recently > influenced Francois Villion then Heidleburg off 9 of his blood. So in > effect he bled me for 9 Pool. > Oh, it's because someone had some shit luck in one game. > > I wasn't miffed that I got my vampire yanked, I was miffed that my > prey bled me for 9 effectively. I was just thankful that I hadn't put > the helicopter on him yet. > He was your prey so you didn't even need an Eagle's Sight to block the action. You're running Tor so you have AUS beyond other normal capabilities to block an action with a mere +1 stealth (and it's not like Salubri get much more than that). You had some shit luck. Too fucking bad. That's the nature of a card game. I have terrible luck with a lot of my games but I don't cry for cards to be banned when it happens.

On Jan 13, 10:09 pm, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: > XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > > Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > >> XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > >> > I wasn't miffed that I got my vampire yanked, I was miffed > >> > that my prey bled me for 9 effectively. I was just thankful that > >> > I hadn't put the helicopter on him yet. > > >> Wasn't this a self correcting problem, as 'cause he bled you for 9, > >> your predator killed you and then him in quick succession? > > > Well, sure if you are standing on the moon you can be objective, > > but actually, in the game, it stung alot and seemed rather unfair. > > Norm, you have got to be joking about wanting Heidelburg banned because it > "seemed rather unfair" right? I would never before now have said that I > thought you were complaining about something. You seem to be a rather > tough individual. > > Seriously, though. You ARE JOKING, right? I am not joking. My jokes are funny, and people laugh until they cry tears of blood. I did want to generate some discussion about it those, and this seemed to be the appropriate way to do it. .....that and I got boned in a game. :)

On Jan 13, 10:28 pm, "dog$" <011...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Heidelburg- Ban it? > > Fuck no. > Why would this card be subject to ban discussion now? Why not? We've talked about bannign everything else in the game from Computer Hacking on up. > > Saulot,who was controlled by my prey, Spirit Marionetted my recently > > influenced Francois Villion then Heidleburg off 9 of his blood. So in > > effect he bled me for 9 Pool. > > Oh, it's because someone had some shit luck in one game. Yep, that was the genesis of this whole thread. > > I wasn't miffed that I got my vampire yanked, I was miffed that my > > prey bled me for 9 effectively. I was just thankful that I hadn't put > > the helicopter on him yet. > > He was your prey so you didn't even need an Eagle's Sight to block the > action. You're running Tor so you have AUS beyond other normal > capabilities to block an action with a mere +1 stealth (and it's not > like Salubri get much more than that). Hell, that deck has 2nd Traditions. Saulot can play Neutral Guard and your pretty much screwed when he does. Unless you control one of the 10+ 11 caps in the game. > You had some shit luck. Too fucking bad. That's the nature of a card > game. It was shitty luck. I got the shaft. Now I am venting. Thanks for being here for me. I am such a tender flower. I'll show you the nature of a card game, just log into JOL. I'll put a size 11 footprint in your skull. > I have terrible luck with a lot of my games but I don't cry for cards > to be banned when it happens. You should. It gives you some perspective.

On Jan 13, 9:27 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > > Saulot,who was controlled by my prey, Spirit Marionetted my recently > influenced Francois Villion then Heidleburg off 9 of his blood. So in > effect he bled me for 9 Pool. > Has this seriously never happened to you before now? This is not exactly 'hot new tech'. My own opinion is that the castle gives big caps some small boost in effectiveness.

On Jan 13, 11:28 pm, "dog$" <011...@gmail.com> wrote: > Why would this card be subject to ban discussion now? 'Cause Norm thought it would be fun to discuss? > I have terrible luck with a lot of my games but I don't cry for cards > to be banned when it happens. Ya know, it is *highly* unlikely that Norm actually expects anything to be banned here. He brought up an interesting discussion point. Which successfully generated interesting discussion. He asked "should this card be banned?", and the resunding answer is pretty much "Uh, no? Are you on crack?" I'm not quite sure why it is getting your panties in a twist. -Peter

On Jan 12, 1:51 pm, Jeff Kuta <jeff.k...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Jan 12, 1:05 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > > > Should Heidleburg be banned? > > No. Ban Temptation, Mind Rape and Spirit Marionette. > > Heidelberg isn't the problem. Minion stealing is. > > Jeff Minion stealing is not balanced. It unduly punishes large vampires like everything that messes "equally" with minions punishes large vampires. It can be incredibly unfun to play against a minion steal deck. However, at what point does trying to fix problems become burning the house down and starting over? I do have a problem with Heidelberg's ability to end players' games so easily in minion steal decks. It's simply not as easy as people seem to think to stop someone from Spirit Marionetteing or Temptationing or whatever your minions away, really the best answer is to get the steal deck ousted as quickly as possible since it isn't likely to be awesome on pool defense. Metagamewise, the decks are held in check by how they often aren't nearly as efficient at ousting as less complicated plans and how stealing vampires from weenie decks isn't likely to stop the weenies from killing you. But, I have trouble elevating Heidelberg to the top of the list of "wished were different".

On Jan 14, 3:06 am, GreenO <mgree...@googlemail.com> wrote: > On Jan 13, 9:27 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > > > > > Saulot,who was controlled by my prey, Spirit Marionetted my recently > > influenced Francois Villion then Heidleburg off 9 of his blood. So in > > effect he bled me for 9 Pool. > > Has this seriously never happened to you before now? This is not > exactly 'hot new tech'. Normally, Saulot has about a 2 second lifespan. So no it was the first time my full 10-cap got ripped and clipped. Is that what you are looking for?

[ quoted text not captured ] Norm?! No smash? GASP... Soz... ;) But yea, hEIDELBERG iS Teh RoXXorz, it muz be nerfed!!!11!!!one! Or something to that effect.

On Jan 13, 4:27 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > Saulot,who was controlled by my prey, Spirit Marionetted my recently > influenced Francois Villion then Heidleburg off 9 of his blood. So in > effect he bled me for 9 Pool. > > I wasn't miffed that I got my vampire yanked, I was miffed that my > prey bled me for 9 effectively. I was just thankful that I hadn't put > the helicopter on him yet. If this is the problem, you can just as easily fix the problem by not allowing Heidelberg to be used in the minion phase (Nod and Communial Haven: Cathedral already can't be used outside of the master phase). That way, they'll have to permanently steal the vampire before they can grab stuff. Banning Heidelberg would be a mistake... it's the only way to transfer retainers. Brent Ross

[ quoted text not captured ] and after all WW did revise it to print the correct name (Heidelberg)...keep it :P

[ quoted text not captured ] >nitpick< Shepard's Innocence?

[ quoted text not captured ] Norm: using carets as a *bold* tag makes Google Groups hide the text automatically.. Making it a little harder to read your posts

[ quoted text not captured ] [nitpick] Shepard's Innocence? Thanks Bloody!

[ quoted text not captured ] [nitpick] ShepHErd's Innocence......

[ quoted text not captured ] [nitpick] ShepHErd's Innocence......

[ quoted text not captured ] You didn't mean Shepxerd's Innocence? best - chris

On Jan 12, 4:05 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > Should Heidleburg be banned? No. And further, I loathe players who get on the internets and hump their keyboards about how this and that card needs to be banned. I mean..... sheesh! Man up, already! ;) -- David Cherryholmes

[ quoted text not captured ] Are you and your keyboard on the outs, and it won't let you hump it any more? Methinks that the sizzle has left the relationship once PTO got banned.

On Jan 12, 7:24 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > On Jan 12, 3:08 pm, witness1 <jwnewqu...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > On Jan 12, 4:05 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > > > > Should Heidleburg be banned? > > > > Is there any other there card since Succubus club that allowed a 22 > > > blood swing? > > > Life Boon. > > Good Point, perhaps I should rephrase the question. > > Should Heidleburg be banned? Please, no. I hate when ANY card is banned. That's why I no longer play Magic, the gathering. To much banned cards. In fact, they ban three hole expansions every single year. There is no problem wih DOM or with Heildelberg or with Baltimore's Purge or with imbued... they are all just strong strategies, that's it. I really enjoy another recent post about Quietus being to strong... That guy has a point. Best, Felipe "6R" Fiuza

On Jan 17, 6:38 am, felipechewbacca <felipechewba...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Jan 12, 7:24 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > > > On Jan 12, 3:08 pm, witness1 <jwnewqu...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > On Jan 12, 4:05 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > > > > > Should Heidleburg be banned? > > > > > Is there any other there card since Succubus club that allowed a 22 > > > > blood swing? > > > > Life Boon. > > > Good Point, perhaps I should rephrase the question. > > > Should Heidleburg be banned? > > Please, no. I hate when ANY card is banned. Yeah, with that "can-do" attitude we can put Return to Innocence back into circulation. Hate those bans because they're bans, and bans are from Franz, and Franz understands that bans are in the stands, but don't make any rubber bands in Vietnam, or you will get canned with Spam that took to long to expand. I understand exactly what you are saying