Skill Card Aversion? Gimme yer thoughts...

Hiya. Classically, I'm one who avoids the use of large numbers of skill cards, but I also am a great proponent of the power of more actions per round, often through the use of smaller minions. As my deck ideas reach further and further into the realms of esoterica (see recent Tha/Cel thread, I've an idea for Potence on Assamites, my "infamous" Depraved Atoning Violet Tremain - Settite Corruption Deck, The Signet of King Saul Deck, etc.) I find myself reching more and more often for a stack of 8-10 Master: skill cards. I'm curious in which situations others see them as at all worth using. What are your thoughts? Most combat decks can make do with the disciplines as they are given on the vamps, and avoid skill cards for better card flow. Does anyone have a combat deck that would make an exception to this? How did you justify the loss of space (esp. master card space) in the deck? I can see a weenie vote deck packing a few Presence skill cards (Most presence cards are good at inferior, but get stellar at suprior, eg. Majesty, Voter Cap, Awe, Catatonic Fear) but even there, you're typically using a Master phase action to get the effect... Skill cards usually fall in the realm of oddball decks. I suspect this is because the tournament worthy decks are too tightly constructed, and the thought of keeping a skill card in versus the multitude of other, stronger master cards is just not appealing enough. My one exception to the tournament comment I just made would be a heavy The Embrace,3rd Trad. or Creation Rites concept deck. If you're building them from scratch like that, you might as well put the skill cards in, as they can be retrieved from the ash heap... So what do you think? Is there any other popular uses for the reams of skill cards I've got? Or should they be kindling for the next campfire? Regards, R. David Zopf guenh...@mindspring.com Atom Weaver and V:EKN Prince of Charlotte, NC

On Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:48:34 GMT, guenh...@mindspring.com (Richard D. Zopf) wrote: ...So I can quit using phrases like 'personally, i don't recommend', anyone who reads this can just figure the whole damn message is opinion only, use only as directed, YMMV. =) > Classically, I'm one who avoids the use of large numbers of skill >cards, but I also am a great proponent of the power of more actions >per round, often through the use of smaller minions. As my deck ideas >reach further and further into the realms of esoterica (see recent >Tha/Cel thread, I've an idea for Potence on Assamites, my "infamous" >Depraved Atoning Violet Tremain - Settite Corruption Deck, The Signet >of King Saul Deck, etc.) I find myself reching more and more often for >a stack of 8-10 Master: skill cards. I'm curious in which situations >others see them as at all worth using. What are your thoughts? I generally have decks with either 4-5 skill cards, 10 skill cards, or none at all. If I use them at ALL, I make them all the same skill; i find that when I try to put 3 of each in and half the vampires in my crypt with ONE skill at superior and the other half with the OTHER at superior, I seem to end up never getting the skills I want. So I only use one of any given discipline as skill cards. > Most combat decks can make do with the disciplines as they are given >on the vamps, and avoid skill cards for better card flow. Does anyone >have a combat deck that would make an exception to this? How did you >justify the loss of space (esp. master card space) in the deck? I have four or five Potence skill cards in my "flung stuff" deck. The crypt is basically 6 different vampires of approximately 6 cap with pot/CEL, four 8-cap vampires with POT/CEL (Jacko for the free additional strike, Akram for his pay-one-blood-for-a-Psyche, and Donal and Constanza cause they're big, mean, and can be Minion Tapped for lots and then go Taste it back later), and Dr. Dre and Jacob Bragg with pot/cel. The justification is that the only strikes in the deck are Thrown Sewer Lid (3 at pot, 3+press at POT), Thrown Gate (1 minor, 2 major, maneuver at either), and a few Sacraments of Carnage (2 minor, 3 minor, handy if you get stuck at close range somehow.) -- all of which are satisfactory at minor but excellent at superior. So I can afford to scoop out a few card slots to wedge those in, since it makes the crypt run that much better - i'll probably always be able to play a Potence card on someone, so it won't hand jam. The deck doesn't use much in the way of master cards (five Minion Taps, four Tributes), so the skill cards almost have their own slots ready-made in a way. A lot of this depends on the discipline you're using, obviously. If you have a discipline that is excellent at inferior and rip-roaring at superior (you mentioned Presence, and I agree totally), it's also a case of "throw a few in so that one or two of your guys can be great, and everyone else can just be good". a contrasting example would be Thaumaturgy - It is one of the few disciplines I refuse to make a deck out of if I can't ensure superior versions of it on almost all my crypt. All of its combat is pretty much "oo that tickles" at inferior and "OW!" at superior, excluding Walk of Flame; which at inferior can be beaten by a simple Flak Jacket, Guardian Angel, Talbot's Chainsaw, ugh, the list goes on and on. One ag hurts, but one ag isn't horrific. Two ag almost REQUIRES Fortitude or special prevention. As a result, I don't use THA skill cards that much, preferring to just make crypts only out of people who have THA already and tack any addtional OTHER skills on from there. > I can see a weenie vote deck packing a few Presence skill cards (Most >presence cards are good at inferior, but get stellar at suprior, eg. >Majesty, Voter Cap, Awe, Catatonic Fear) but even there, you're >typically using a Master phase action to get the effect... True. But there isn't much way to get "classic" weenie vote off the ground anymore without a good initial draw of a Praxis, a Presence master, and a Bewitching Oration to get past those casually pushed vote cards (and potentially the Edge, though bleeding with your first weenie will help some. bleh!). I threw 4-5 skill cards in my presence-bleed deck for something like that reason though; some guys with pre, some guys with PRE, if the cards come out fine, if not, I don't usually want more than one or two actions to happen at superior ANYWAY... just order minions carefully. > Skill cards usually fall in the realm of oddball decks. I suspect >this is because the tournament worthy decks are too tightly >constructed, and the thought of keeping a skill card in versus the >multitude of other, stronger master cards is just not appealing >enough. Potentially. But i think the classic "Rush" deck also has 4-5 potence cards in it, just for the potential of getting KoKo striking for 5 with only 3 cards, and paying no blood and one master phase action to do it. =) > My one exception to the tournament comment I just made would be a >heavy The Embrace,3rd Trad. or Creation Rites concept deck. If you're >building them from scratch like that, you might as well put the skill >cards in, as they can be retrieved from the ash heap... well, if you're using babies, either they're babies who bleed for 1 or they're babies who do something even more useful... which requires skill cards. That's much different though, since you can GET the skill cards for free when you make the baby, and aren't so dependent on them showing up. > So what do you think? Is there any other popular uses for the reams >of skill cards I've got? Or should they be kindling for the next >campfire? I use no skill cards when my crypt is satisfactory or just doesn't NEED any disciplines at superior for the deck to go. (Gangrel 40 computer hacking/20 claw/20 rat's warning decks. whee!) I use 4-5 skill cards to fill out "inferior" crypt holes in a skill I need at superior - mostly so I can bring out a couple guys with it at superior and then haul out a couple other people later with it at inferior, hoping i've drawn 1 of 5 skill cards in the first five turns. (Seems to work OK.) I use 10 skill cards when I'm pulling Amazingly Silly Tricks, usually -- or even a nasty l'il variation like almost-weenie presence bleed with 12 OBF skill cards, 15 Lost in Crowds, 15 (any other +1 stealth card), 35 Social Charm/Enchant Kindred/Legal Manipulations (mix to taste), 5-6 Tribute to the Masters, a couple Info Highways, and a few Effective Managements. There are (counts) 23 vampires of 4 cap or less with presence in some form or other, and three of them have superior PRE. Go up to 5 and you get an additional 5 vamps with superior PRE... if you're crafty, put some Media Influences in and use all that stealth to make sure your 5-cap gets the Media Influence off right after the Tribute to the Master. =) And only 3 of your weenies are 1-caps, so the Tribute won't just make everyone hunt (making Media Influence useless)... ok. i've babbled enough. -- Derek (replying by email? remove the nospam from my domain :)

In article <768r5t$pae$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>, guenh...@mindspring.com wrote: > Hiya. > > Classically, I'm one who avoids the use of large numbers of skill > cards, but I also am a great proponent of the power of more actions > per round, often through the use of smaller minions. As my deck ideas > reach further and further into the realms of esoterica (see recent > Tha/Cel thread, I've an idea for Potence on Assamites, my "infamous" Hehe. Go Tha/Cel!! Oh god!! Potence on Assamites?!?! Neeeeeeeat. Strange though. Would you be doing it similar to the Tha/Pot hit hard first round, then use agg second? Hmm...you'd also have Celerity for lots of maneuvers & Psyche...I like it. I have more recently realized the goodness of many minions, but with a lot of the decks I create, sometimes it isn't worth it to just have inferior. I can still get by most of the time, but... > Depraved Atoning Violet Tremain - Settite Corruption Deck, The Signet > of King Saul Deck, etc.) I find myself reching more and more often for > a stack of 8-10 Master: skill cards. I'm curious in which situations > others see them as at all worth using. What are your thoughts? 'reching?' I hope you meant 'reaching,' and not 'retching' :P > Most combat decks can make do with the disciplines as they are given > on the vamps, and avoid skill cards for better card flow. Does anyone > have a combat deck that would make an exception to this? How did you > justify the loss of space (esp. master card space) in the deck? Hmm...well Peter, IIRC, has a *few* skill cards in his Nos rush deck, and my close cousin (read: rip-off) of that deck also has a few. I can't speak for "the Mastah," but most of my decks, combat especially, are able to run with the disciplines available on the vamps...the discipline cards are simply in there to add a little more functionality. (The major exception to adequate crypt selection being my Ani/Cel/Tha deck...I put Tiberius and some Ravnos-or-other in because they had Ani/Cel, but no Tha...I felt I could only get away with so many copies of Cardano/Javier/Thomas Thorne...) In other words, the deck will do fine if I don't draw the skill cards, but there *is* a pretty big difference between pot and POT, for example, and tha and THA, and I enjoy getting that boost from time to time. I try not to put *too* many skill cards in...but I do put them in most decks if I'm not fully satisfied with the crypt selection (which is, not surprisingly, given my penchant for umm...eccentric decks, rather often). I guess I don't mind losing a few card slots to skill cards in case I draw Agrippina early...I really like giving her POT... > I can see a weenie vote deck packing a few Presence skill cards (Most > presence cards are good at inferior, but get stellar at suprior, eg. > Majesty, Voter Cap, Awe, Catatonic Fear) but even there, you're > typically using a Master phase action to get the effect... I haven't made a real weenie vote deck in quite a while (ever?), but I don't see a whole lot of worry about using the master phase actions for much else... > So what do you think? Is there any other popular uses for the reams > of skill cards I've got? Or should they be kindling for the next > campfire? Well, as usual, YMMV...but my opinion is that it's nice to have some in almost any deck (I think the only one I never used any in is the PRE Ventrue weenie deck...a "We are the Camarilla" style deck...), but almost never more than 8 or so (unless it's a really keen concept)...and 8 is a lot. What I generally do is figure out how many skill cards I would need to boost every single vampire in the crypt to superior for each discipline I would be using (generally just 2 or 3 disciplines...), then determine which discipline needs the most help, and kind of go on ratios from there. In my Dom/For/Tha bleed/Dawn Op/Weather Control deck, I think I only needed like 3 for Dom, about 6 for For, and 6 for Tha. So I went with 1, 2, and 2. I think. (I suspect we'll know for sure on Jan 1...probably posting 2 decks in the next issue...) That's a pretty tame example, but it sounds about right, and I just retooled it umm...about a week ago. Of course, for that deck, I end up using bigbigbig vampires...like 2 Cardano, 2 Muaziz, 2 Iliana, 2 Marlene, Ulugh, and 3 others who I can't remember right now... Xian, writing waaay too much, but happy to have an intereting thread going... "they look at you funny when you attack things like a hungry mountain lion on crack" --greensea -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

Richard D. Zopf wrote: "Most combat decks can make do with the disciplines as they are given on the vamps, and avoid skill cards for better card flow. Does anyone have a combat deck that would make an exception to this? How did you justify the loss of space (esp. master card space) in the deck?" If you are using smaller vampires and/or multiple disciplines, you still pretty much will want to have at least a few skill cards in your deck. In my Pot/Obf deck, half of my vampires come with POT and most of them have obf. It is incredibly useful to have POT as opposed to pot, as it gives you presses from the IG, essentially doubles the damage you do, and makes Decapitate a useful card, so I generally consider POT to be highly necessary. Basic pot is still useful, especially against other small vampires (KoKo can easily take out a 3 or 4 point vamp), but given the opportunity, POT is always preferable. Assuming that I'll generally draw 2 vamps with POT in my initial vamp selection, having 3 Pot skill cards seems reasonable, as it isn't too many so as to clog up your hand (like when you are playing a Tha/Cel deck with, like, 8 Cel cards) and doesn't take up much master space (and the possibility of having Hesina Kesi with POT start her killing spree on my second turn is a huge enticement). I like playing low masters (+/-13 in a 90 card deck), but I still like to use up 2 or 3 of those few slots for Pot masters. With a small vamp combat deck, assuming it uses 2 disciplines (like Pot/Obf; Pot/Cel; or Pro/For), you really need to focus on the main discipline and relegate the second discipline to support. With Pot/Obf, you onle really need regular obf for the inferior of Behind You, and if you are the type, the inferior of Hidden Lurker. As such, you don't need OBF and can avoid Obf skill cards as well as keeping your vampire average size lower (focusing on POT and obf, which is an easy combination to come up with). With Pot/Cel, you can, again, stick with basic cel, although having CEL in such a deck is _much_ more useful than having OBF in a Pot/Obf deck. With cel, you always have the very strong Flash (which will always be useful) and low intensity, expensive additional strikes with Blur, but with CEL, your abilites become much scarier. As a result, the Pot/Cel deck will tend to have more Skill cards and/or bigger vampires (multiple 5's and 6's) which is a trade off of increased combat ability against lesser deck efficiency. In this sort of situation, you can always have 5 or 6 skill cards of one discipline (say, Pot), and have plenty of vamps with superior in the other. Using multiples of Anvil, Black Cat, and Bianca, along with some of the good, young !Bru (and Senor Dunn, of course) makes for a strong (if a bit pricey for my tastes) crypt, and a good supply of Pot masters will result in all of your vamps with POT and CEL. Peter D Bakija PD...@aol.com "I'm a street walking cheeta with a heart full of napalm. I'm the renegade son of a nuclear A-bomb." -Iggy Pop

Richard D. Zopf wrote: > > Hiya. > > Classically, I'm one who avoids the use of large numbers of skill > cards, but I also am a great proponent of the power of more actions > per round, often through the use of smaller minions. {snip} > What are your thoughts? > Well, personally, I always forget skill cards in my deck. And I think my decks suffer for it, as I always end up with inferior skills when I want superior. From now on, I think I will be adding at least a couple of skill cards to most of my decks (although not the Settite/playtest Serpents of the Light decks, as the clan is usually way more important than skills, there). Mainly, it's because Master Cards tend to *help* my card flow. Yeah, that's right. And why? Because I'm generally an idiot and only put about 15 out of 90 Masters in a non-combat deck and a lot of those are unique and get discarded. So I end up with no Masters (or at least no usable Masters) after the first turn, and can't cycle. And without being able to cycle (usually since my minions are puny and can't risk getting caught while taking an action), I never get to my other Masters. So adding some skill cards will give me one additional card per turn (I always feel useless if I don't play one Master per turn... meaning I always feel useless), *and* help out my vamps. Hopefully. -Chris

Richard Zopf wrote: > I find myself reching more and more often for > a stack of 8-10 Master: skill cards. I'm curious in which situations > others see them as at all worth using. What are your thoughts? Hrm. I generally tend to use about 6 skill cards, but that goes up or down depending on what I need. > Most combat decks can make do with the disciplines as they are given > on the vamps, and avoid skill cards for better card flow. Does anyone > have a combat deck that would make an exception to this? How did you > justify the loss of space (esp. master card space) in the deck? I have a Tzimisce "Transformers" deck that's built around Bauble. Of the two Viccisitude cards that give stealth, one costs a blood and the other is at superior. Since Bauble costs 2 blood, if I need to push stealth I need my Viccisitude weenies to either have superior Viccisitude or have 3 blood. The deck has 3 Animalism cards and 3 Viccisitude. I don't use Auspex skill cards since all of the vampires that aren't being turned into Assault Rifles or Flamethrowers have superior Auspex. As for the loss of space, normally I play with 20 master cards...so 6 isn't that big of a bite. If I go that high, I tend to avoid master cards that will use additional master phases (like the Investments) and use cards that no longer use master phases once in play (Blood Dolls, Powerbase: Chicago) As a rule, I don't rely on master cards to make my decks work, but rather I use them for icing. > So what do you think? Is there any other popular uses for the reams > of skill cards I've got? Or should they be kindling for the next > campfire? *shrug* The right tools for the right job. Noal -- "DISCUSSION, n. A method of confirming others in their errors." -Ambrose Bierce. [ quoted text not captured ]

Richard D. Zopf wrote: > I've an idea for Potence on Assamites, There is only 1 (one!) Assamite which naturally has (inferior) Potence, am I right?Ok. You *can* mix them with Brujah (especially this Primogen which has an optional Psyche effect), but it seems to me that a pure Celerity deck with weapons or a pure Brujah would be more effective. Do you want to be able to use Immortal Grapple with Khabar: The Honor??? > I find myself reching more and more often for > a stack of 8-10 Master: skill cards. I'm curious in which situations > others see them as at all worth using. What are your thoughts? > General thoughts: I try to determine if I rely on disciplines so much that I need to bother about the problem at all. If I have to bother, I look over my vamps and see which discipline(s) are most desperately needed. Then I throw in enough Skill-Masters that at least half of the vamps with the inferior discipline(s) I need can get the superior version. > Most combat decks can make do with the disciplines as they are > given > on the vamps, and avoid skill cards for better card flow. Does anyone > > have a combat deck that would make an exception to this? How did you > justify the loss of space (esp. master card space) in the deck? > Fortitude weeny combat benefit greatly from skill cards as well as any combat deck with a low average capacity that uses more than one discipline.Can`t put in so much Haven Uncovereds, but heck, that is what Bum`s Rush is for. > I can see a weenie vote deck packing a few Presence skill > cards (Most > presence cards are good at inferior, but get stellar at suprior, eg. > Majesty, Voter Cap, Awe, Catatonic Fear) but even there, you're > typically using a Master phase action to get the effect... > Especially in vote decks, you *have* the master phase actions you need, but usually you don`t need skills that desperately, `cause you have enough vamps with superior Presence anyway, and voting as such is not skill dependant. Good for Voter Caps though. I never put in more than 2 presence skills in a vote deck. > Skill cards usually fall in the realm of oddball decks. #read: the decks that are the most fun# yep and I love them. > So what do you think? Is there any other popular uses for the > reams > of skill cards I've got? Or should they be kindling for the next > campfire? > I heavily use Animalism skill cards with Gangrel because most of their low caps lack superior animalism. In fact, Bear Paw, a 5 cap, is the smallest one with superior animalism! Potence, Celerity, Presence, Dominate, Obfuscate get used a lot for weeny skill dependant decks (bleed and combat mostly), I use the other disciplines mostly for special purposes (for example Thaumaturgy for Ruthor`s Hand and Magic of the Smith) Michael Beer

Richard D. Zopf wrote: > > Hiya. > > Classically, I'm one who avoids the use of large numbers of skill > cards, but I also am a great proponent of the power of more actions > per round, often through the use of smaller minions. As my deck ideas > reach further and further into the realms of esoterica...[clip]...I find myself > reching more and more often for...Master: skill cards. The overarching goal for nearly all of my crypts is to ensure that *every* vampire in my crypt can use any card in my library. I hate hand jams. I also like to use my discard phase to ditch cards that are not useful at the moment rather than to discard cards that cannot be played by any of my vampires. So, to achieve that goal I typically build my crypts so that every vampire has every skill at its preferred level. For example, for a Potence combat deck that intends to use Decapitate, I won't include any Vamps with inferior potence. I don't like to leave the possibility that I will be crippled before the game even begins due to a bad crypt draw. The other method I use is best demonstrated in an old tournament deck. Back when the DCI had a 6CL on S:CE cards, I built a Gangrel/Ventrue deck that would use 6 each of Majesty, Form of Mist, and Earth Meld. I put in the vamps that had Presence and Protean. Then I added enough skill cards to be able to ensure that I'd get to play with 4 or 5 vampires that would, as the game wore on, all have superior Presence and Protean. Robert Goudie rrgo...@earthlink.net http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net

xi...@waste.org (Xian) wrote: >In article <768r5t$pae$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>, > guenh...@mindspring.com wrote: >> Hiya. >> >> Classically, I'm one who avoids the use of large numbers of skill >> cards, but I also am a great proponent of the power of more actions >> per round, often through the use of smaller minions. As my deck ideas >> reach further and further into the realms of esoterica (see recent >> Tha/Cel thread, I've an idea for Potence on Assamites, my "infamous" >Hehe. Go Tha/Cel!! Oh god!! Potence on Assamites?!?! Neeeeeeeat. Strange >though. Would you be doing it similar to the Tha/Pot hit hard first round, >then use agg second? Hmm...you'd also have Celerity for lots of maneuvers & >Psyche...I like it. I was going to go the route of IG'ed Khabar:Honor, Blur, K:H, K:H, plus possibly a Kali's Fang or a maneuvered Taste of Death for round two (if the additional strikes aren't there in round one). The master card load is quite high, though, considering I need the Potence skill cards _and_ the Contracts to get the fool IG/KH combo going. The Hand of Conrad is the only bypass to the heavy skill card usage I've found. Obviously, Diablerie is out (grimace... Where's that Millenial League?), unless it's with an Embraced vamp. Any other suggestions? >> Depraved Atoning Violet Tremain - Settite Corruption Deck, The Signet >> of King Saul Deck, etc.) I find myself reching more and more often for >> a stack of 8-10 Master: skill cards. I'm curious in which situations >> others see them as at all worth using. What are your thoughts? >'reching?' I hope you meant 'reaching,' and not 'retching' :P Sometimes, both ;-). This time, I'm 'reaching', I'm _really_ 'reaching'... With a deck idea like this, how could I not be? [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <77l8jg$dbt$1...@camel29.mindspring.com>, Richard D. Zopf <guenh...@mindspring.com> writes >I was going to go the route of IG'ed Khabar:Honor, Blur, K:H, K:H, >plus possibly a Kali's Fang or a maneuvered Taste of Death for round >two (if the additional strikes aren't there in round one). Problem: Kali's Fang is a weapon strike, IG prohibits it. Damn :( But I like the idea otherwise, though. A few Sacrificial Lambs might make up for not being able to use Kali's, though. -- James Coupe (Prince of Mercia, England) Vampire: Elder Kindred Network http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net

In article <77l8jg$dbt$1...@camel29.mindspring.com>, guenh...@mindspring.com wrote: > I was going to go the route of IG'ed Khabar:Honor, Blur, K:H, K:H, > plus possibly a Kali's Fang or a maneuvered Taste of Death for round Do you really need Potence with that? I mean...well...I don't have enough Kabahr: Honor to do it. (Got like 4...) But you presumably do? Hmm...I suppose the Potence would be nice though, for support like Torn Signpost. Yikes. Evil +3 hand strikes. I was thinking you'd just go Pot/Cel/Qui and a few HL's...very few... So, I'd kinda design it like a Brujah rush deck, but with only Blood Dolls, Potence skills, and Contracts for the masters. Maybe 1 or 2 Cel skill cards. Make it like 8 Contracts, 12 Bum's Rush, 6 Potence Masters, 4 Blood Dolls, 2 Cel skills. That's 20 masters. A little high for rush, but you also have a slightly higher proportion of rush stuff...20, including 8 Contracts. Make the last 58 cards combat, and you're set. [pulls out Peter's template, Josh's not being handy...] What, about 12-16 strikes, 4 Fists of Death, 8 -10 Torn Signpost, 10 or so Flash, 8 Taste of Vitae, and about 14 other cards... > two (if the additional strikes aren't there in round one). The master > card load is quite high, though, considering I need the Potence skill > cards _and_ the Contracts to get the fool IG/KH combo going. The Hand > of Conrad is the only bypass to the heavy skill card usage I've found. > Obviously, Diablerie is out (grimace... Where's that Millenial > League?), unless it's with an Embraced vamp. Any other suggestions? Wouldn't an Embraced vamp be screwed too? Or is the 'cannot commit diablerie' bit not passed along? And who needs diablerie when you've got Taste of Death/'that evil I have agg damage card with the bloody kiss on the knife whose name I can't remember'? (Yep...only got one o' those, too...just like stupid Disarm...damn...) Xian [ quoted text not captured ]

xi...@waste.org (Xian) wrote: > guenh...@mindspring.com wrote: > > Obviously, Diablerie is out (grimace... Where's that Millenial > > League?), unless it's with an Embraced vamp. Any other suggestions? > > Wouldn't an Embraced vamp be screwed too? Or is the 'cannot commit > diablerie' bit not passed along? "Cannot commit diablerie" is a function of card text, not of being an Assamite. The Embrace can commit diablerie. Likewise, Faruq can still not commit diablerie even if he impersonates a Toreador. -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <77m2sr$vut$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Xian <xi...@waste.org> writes >Do you really need Potence with that? I mean...well...I don't have enough >Kabahr: Honor to do it. (Got like 4...) But you presumably do? Hmm...I >suppose the Potence would be nice though, for support like Torn Signpost. >Yikes. Evil +3 hand strikes. I was thinking you'd just go Pot/Cel/Qui and a >few HL's...very few... I think it's most likely for the Assamite problem with S:CE. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <77nlq2$at1$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> writes >Likewise, Faruq can still >not commit diablerie even if he impersonates a Toreador. But Faruq's a Gangrel. [ quoted text not captured ]

James Coupe <ve...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote: >In article <77l8jg$dbt$1...@camel29.mindspring.com>, Richard D. Zopf ><guenh...@mindspring.com> writes >>I was going to go the route of IG'ed Khabar:Honor, Blur, K:H, K:H, >>plus possibly a Kali's Fang or a maneuvered Taste of Death for round >>two (if the additional strikes aren't there in round one). >Problem: Kali's Fang is a weapon strike, IG prohibits it. I thought that IG's "hand strikes only" clause was now only applicable to round 1 (post 7/7)... Did I miss a change? Am I being delusional? Is the world flat? [ quoted text not captured ]

xi...@waste.org (Xian) wrote: >In article <77l8jg$dbt$1...@camel29.mindspring.com>, > guenh...@mindspring.com wrote: >> I was going to go the route of IG'ed Khabar:Honor, Blur, K:H, K:H, >> plus possibly a Kali's Fang or a maneuvered Taste of Death for round >Do you really need Potence with that? I mean...well...I don't have enough >Kabahr: Honor to do it. (Got like 4...) But you presumably do? Yeh. About 20. The toughest part of Assamite Combat of this nature is getting my target to 'hold still'. (ie not Dodge or S:CE) I suppose Hidden Lurker would work, but you'd need to get into combat without a Contract, get out safely, then hit 'em with the Contracted Assamite using a the HL. Two minons and two rush sources for what is effectively one combat is pretty lame. Rush needs to be more efficient on actions if its to get anywhere. I figured Immortal Grapple would be about the only thing that could do it. I didn't want to sacrifice the Assamite "feel" to it. If I make it an Assamite deck with a bunch of skill cards, and standard potence strikes, etc., it may as well be a Brujah rush deck. Thus K:H, some maneuvering, a few Quietus strikes, etc. >Hmm...I >suppose the Potence would be nice though, for support like Torn Signpost. >Yikes. Evil +3 hand strikes. I was thinking you'd just go Pot/Cel/Qui and a >few HL's...very few... >So, I'd kinda design it like a Brujah rush deck, but with only Blood Dolls, >Potence skills, and Contracts for the masters. Maybe 1 or 2 Cel skill cards. > Make it like 8 Contracts, 12 Bum's Rush, 6 Potence Masters, 4 Blood Dolls, 2 >Cel skills. That's 20 masters. A little high for rush, but you also have a >slightly higher proportion of rush stuff...20, including 8 Contracts. Make >the last 58 cards combat, and you're set. [pulls out Peter's template, >Josh's not being handy...] What, about 12-16 strikes, 4 Fists of Death, 8 >-10 Torn Signpost, 10 or so Flash, 8 Taste of Vitae, and about 14 other >cards... Hrmm. I'll probably opt out of the Fists of Death, include a few more additional strike sources, use those Torn Signposts, and get some Assammic flavor with those last 14 cards. I'd also go with a few more Pot skill, drop the Cel cards, and include a Barrens/FotBoN for card flow (I'll need it...) >Wouldn't an Embraced vamp be screwed too? Or is the 'cannot commit >diablerie' bit not passed along? And who needs diablerie when you've got >Taste of Death/'that evil I have agg damage card with the bloody kiss on the >knife whose name I can't remember'? (Yep...only got one o' those, too...just >like stupid Disarm...damn...) Nope. You need the little text at the bottom of the card "cannot commit diablerie" Just being an Assamite doesn't do it. Ooohh. Disarm. Gotta have a few of those too... [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <77qa5d$o15$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>, Richard D. Zopf <guenh...@mindspring.com> writes >James Coupe <ve...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote: > >>In article <77l8jg$dbt$1...@camel29.mindspring.com>, Richard D. Zopf >><guenh...@mindspring.com> writes >>>I was going to go the route of IG'ed Khabar:Honor, Blur, K:H, K:H, >>>plus possibly a Kali's Fang or a maneuvered Taste of Death for round >>>two (if the additional strikes aren't there in round one). > >>Problem: Kali's Fang is a weapon strike, IG prohibits it. > >I thought that IG's "hand strikes only" clause was now only applicable >to round 1 (post 7/7)... Did I miss a change? Am I being delusional? >Is the world flat? Indeed it does, but then you have the problems of S:CE etc. that surely you were using IG to prevent? [ quoted text not captured ]

James Coupe <ve...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote: >In article <77qa5d$o15$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>, Richard D. Zopf ><guenh...@mindspring.com> writes >>James Coupe <ve...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote: >> >>>In article <77l8jg$dbt$1...@camel29.mindspring.com>, Richard D. Zopf >>><guenh...@mindspring.com> writes >>>>I was going to go the route of IG'ed Khabar:Honor, Blur, K:H, K:H, >>>>plus possibly a Kali's Fang or a maneuvered Taste of Death for round >>>>two (if the additional strikes aren't there in round one). >> >>>Problem: Kali's Fang is a weapon strike, IG prohibits it. >> >>I thought that IG's "hand strikes only" clause was now only applicable >>to round 1 (post 7/7)... Did I miss a change? Am I being delusional? >>Is the world flat? >Indeed it does, but then you have the problems of S:CE etc. that surely >you were using IG to prevent? Oh, sure. That'll always be a problem. The threat of agg. in the second round might help significantly, though. [ quoted text not captured ]

James Coupe wrote: > > In article <77nlq2$at1$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> > writes > >Likewise, Faruq can still > >not commit diablerie even if he impersonates a Toreador. > > But Faruq's a Gangrel. Oops. Right. I meant Melek. (yeah, sure). [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <77thdn$l59$1...@camel19.mindspring.com>, Richard D. Zopf <guenh...@mindspring.com> writes >Oh, sure. That'll always be a problem. The threat of agg. in the >second round might help significantly, though. Hmm.... isn't there the Quietus card that makes a weapon *or* hand strike aggravated second round? Then you could IG that instead..... Hmm.... Blood Agony. You could Khabar: Honor it too, being a hand strike. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <36A33532...@wizards.com>, LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> writes >> But Faruq's a Gangrel. > >Oops. Right. I meant Melek. (yeah, sure). Hehe. I couldn't work out who you meant, as it happens, but I *knew* it wasn't Faruq. [ quoted text not captured ]

James Coupe <ve...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote: >In article <77thdn$l59$1...@camel19.mindspring.com>, Richard D. Zopf ><guenh...@mindspring.com> writes >>Oh, sure. That'll always be a problem. The threat of agg. in the >>second round might help significantly, though. >Hmm.... isn't there the Quietus card that makes a weapon *or* hand >strike aggravated second round? Then you could IG that instead..... >Hmm.... Blood Agony. You could Khabar: Honor it too, being a hand >strike. Whoo hoo! Excellent, indeed, and it fits the theme. I've only 4 or 5, but I shouldn't need more than the occasional one to get the threat factor up... Thanks, James... [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <780dgo$i2r$1...@camel15.mindspring.com>, Richard D. Zopf <guenh...@mindspring.com> wrote: >>Hmm.... isn't there the Quietus card that makes a weapon *or* hand >>strike aggravated second round? Then you could IG that instead..... > >>Hmm.... Blood Agony. You could Khabar: Honor it too, being a hand >>strike. > >Whoo hoo! Excellent, indeed, and it fits the theme. I've only 4 or >5, but I shouldn't need more than the occasional one to get the threat >factor up... Thanks, James... Yah, the assamite deck everyone always wants to make when they start out, until they realize all the goob weapon stuff is rare. 4 Blood Agony is the most I've heard of anyone even having. :-/ If you do get this to work, I'd be interested in seeing how it does. -- /\ Jasper Phillips /VVVVVVVVVVVVVV|~"~"~"~"~"~"----------........____ jaz j^^^^^^^^^^^^^\/"~"~"~"~-----------........._____ ~"~--. * http://www.engr.orst.edu/~philljas/ "~"~'--`

> >Whoo hoo! Excellent, indeed, and it fits the theme. I've only 4 or > >5, but I shouldn't need more than the occasional one to get the threat > >factor up... Thanks, James... > Yah, the assamite deck everyone always wants to make when they start > out, until they realize all the goob weapon stuff is rare. 4 Blood Agony > is the most I've heard of anyone even having. :-/ I have about 5 or 6 of it and Silence of Death. They are very difficult to get a hold of in packs and somewhat on the expesive side if you buy them from Mark. I really, really want to make an Assamite deck. I had one that was mediocre a while back, but if the environment wasn't just right, I would get nowhere. a0 [ quoted text not captured ]