(LSJ) Vidal Jarbeaux tricks.

First, his cardtext : Camarilla: Vidal can meet the clan, sect, or non-infernal vampire trait (e.g., anarch) requirement to play any card. He can meet a given requirement only once each game. +1 bleed. So, a few questions just to get it a bit clearer. 1/ If Vidal uses his cardtext to play a card that requires a Baron, would that count against the Anarch trait also ? I suppose so, since "requires a Baron" means "requires an Anarch which is a Baron". And then, "Anarch" is also a requirement he has to meet. See http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/02e15bad88f5e42e 2/ Does "Requires a Seraph" implicates "Requires a Black Hand vampire" ? 3/ Can Vidal use his special to meet any 2 of clan and sect, clan and trait, sect and trait ? (is this "or" a "xor" ? My argument for the "no" answer would be that you can't use the powerbase: chicago to add 1 blood to the card AND remove all the blood from it. Another thing I could say would be that Keystone Kine introduced the "and / or" thing, that confused some people, but was nice and clear. And Vidal does not use the "and / or" text - perhaps he should) 4/ Does "Requires an anarch" implicates "Requires an independant vampire" ? If yes, and if answer to 3) is "yes", does this mean Vidal cannot play any Anarch-requiring card untill he's not at least independant ? 5/ Now, the stupid one : Is " vampire" a non-infernal vampire trait ? (If it's not, I have no idea what "imbued" and "vampire" are :P ) So, now, the stupid example : Vidal uses his cardtext to play The Grandest Trick, the action being, say, a bleed. His special cardtext still applies : Vidal (the ally) can meet the clan, sect, or non- infernal vampire trait requirements to play a card. He plays a !Nosferatu-requiring (Gang Tactics, for instance) card. If the answer to the question 5/ (the stupid one) is "yes", Vidal faking to be a vampire when he fakes to be an ally cannot play a !Ventrue- requiring (Innocent Bystander, for instance) card any more.

On 24 nov, 03:28, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote: > 3/ Can Vidal use his special to meet any 2 of clan and sect, clan and > trait, sect and trait ? (By that I meant "Can he use his special to meet any 2 of clan, sect, and non-infernal vampire trait ?" i.e. cand he use his special to meet [clan and non-infernal vampire trait] requirements ? for [clan and sect] requirements ? for [sect and non-infernal vampire trait] requirements ? )

floppyzedolfin wrote: > First, his cardtext : > > Camarilla: Vidal can meet the clan, sect, or non-infernal vampire > trait (e.g., anarch) requirement to play any card. He can meet a given > requirement only once each game. +1 bleed. > > So, a few questions just to get it a bit clearer. > > 1/ If Vidal uses his cardtext to play a card that requires a Baron, > would that count against the Anarch trait also ? Not for his special. > 2/ Does "Requires a Seraph" implicates "Requires a Black Hand > vampire" ? Not for his special. > 3/ Can Vidal use his special to meet any 2 of clan and sect, clan and > trait, sect and trait ? (is this "or" a "xor" ? My argument for the > "no" answer would be that you can't use the powerbase: chicago to add > 1 blood to the card AND remove all the blood from it. Another thing I > could say would be that Keystone Kine introduced the "and / or" thing, > that confused some people, but was nice and clear. And Vidal does not > use the "and / or" text - perhaps he should) He cannot use his ability to meet more than one requirement of a given card, no. He'd have to meet all but one (the one he uses his special to meet) "naturally" (or with the aid of other effects). > 4/ Does "Requires an anarch" implicates "Requires an independant > vampire" ? Not for his special. > 5/ Now, the stupid one : Is " vampire" a non-infernal vampire trait ? No. > (If it's not, I have no idea what "imbued" and "vampire" are :P ) Minions. > So, now, the stupid example : Vidal uses his cardtext to play The > Grandest Trick, the action being, say, a bleed. His special cardtext > still applies : Vidal (the ally) can meet the clan, sect, or non- > infernal vampire trait requirements to play a card. > He plays a !Nosferatu-requiring (Gang Tactics, for instance) card. If > the answer to the question 5/ (the stupid one) is "yes", Vidal faking > to be a vampire when he fakes to be an ally cannot play a !Ventrue- > requiring (Innocent Bystander, for instance) card any more. You lost me. He can bleed and play Grandest Trick and then Gang Tactics. (Or the other way 'round). If the bleed is successful, then he can play Innocent Bystander.

In message <pIoWk.5509$hc1....@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> writes: >floppyzedolfin wrote: >> 3/ Can Vidal use his special to meet any 2 of clan and sect, clan and >> trait, sect and trait ? (is this "or" a "xor" ? My argument for the >> "no" answer would be that you can't use the powerbase: chicago to add >> 1 blood to the card AND remove all the blood from it. Another thing I >> could say would be that Keystone Kine introduced the "and / or" thing, >> that confused some people, but was nice and clear. And Vidal does not >> use the "and / or" text - perhaps he should) > >He cannot use his ability to meet more than one requirement of a given >card, no. >He'd have to meet all but one (the one he uses his special to meet) >"naturally" (or with the aid of other effects). So you could use "the aid of other effects" to meet a second trait requirement in an unnatural fashion, and use his own unnatural special? How does that square with being unable to do the same for disciplines? http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/25071cd820b19994 http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/3d4aa6e913ee7940 -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

On 24 nov, 03:55, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > floppyzedolfin wrote: > > First, his cardtext : > > > Camarilla: Vidal can meet the clan, sect, or non-infernal vampire > > trait (e.g., anarch) requirement to play any card. He can meet a given > > requirement only once each game. +1 bleed. > > > So, a few questions just to get it a bit clearer. > > > 1/ If Vidal uses his cardtext to play a card that requires a Baron, > > would that count against the Anarch trait also ? > > Not for his special. So, if he calls a Revolutionnary Council, is blocked, plays sup' Majesty, continues the action with Ambulance, can he chose himself amongst the X untapped anarchs ? The card "sees" him as an Anarch Baron, but he did not met the Anarch requirement. This is kinda strange to me.

[ quoted text not captured ] "Requires a Baron". He met that requirement.

[ quoted text not captured ] Yes, but he means if he is untapped, can he count himself as an anrach, untaped, for the purposes of tapped anarch when the revolutionary councils "X" portion gets determined?

[ quoted text not captured ] Sure. But he was focusing on the imaginary "requires an Anarch" requirement. The way to help him overcome that obstacle is to point out that the requirement printed on the card is "Baron", not "Anarch".

James Coupe wrote: > In message <pIoWk.5509$hc1....@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com>, LSJ > <vte...@white-wolf.com> writes: >> floppyzedolfin wrote: >>> 3/ Can Vidal use his special to meet any 2 of clan and sect, clan and >>> trait, sect and trait ? (is this "or" a "xor" ? My argument for the >>> "no" answer would be that you can't use the powerbase: chicago to add >>> 1 blood to the card AND remove all the blood from it. Another thing I >>> could say would be that Keystone Kine introduced the "and / or" thing, >>> that confused some people, but was nice and clear. And Vidal does not >>> use the "and / or" text - perhaps he should) >> He cannot use his ability to meet more than one requirement of a given >> card, no. >> He'd have to meet all but one (the one he uses his special to meet) >> "naturally" (or with the aid of other effects). > > So you could use "the aid of other effects" to meet a second trait > requirement in an unnatural fashion, and use his own unnatural special? > > How does that square with being unable to do the same for disciplines? It doesn't. That's an error on my part. Skip the "aid of other effects" bit. He'd have to meet all but one (the one he uses his special to meet) "naturally".

LSJ wrote: > Sure. But he was focusing on the imaginary "requires an Anarch" requirement. The > way to help him overcome that obstacle is to point out that the requirement > printed on the card is "Baron", not "Anarch". So when taking an action that requires a Baron, he counts as an anarch for all questions the card asks (ie, he can tap himself for RevCo), but that does not count against his one use of the anarch trait? I'm actually surprised that titles are considered traits at all, anyhow, since their definition is included in the rules. For cards that require a Prince or Justicar (or some other assortment of options), can he play the effect once as a Prince and once as Justicar? Jesse

jcrossn...@gmail.com wrote: > For cards that require a Prince or Justicar (or some other assortment > of options), can he play the effect once as a Prince and once as > Justicar? Yes.