((LSJ)) Hell-for-Leather

LSJ, Can you use IN ORDER, HFL @ ani (S:D + add) and then HFL @ cel (Add which doesn't count against adds)? Name: Hell-for-Leather [TR:C] Cardtype: Combat Discipline: Animalism/Celerity/Obtenebration Requires an anarch. Only one Hell-for-Leather may be played at a given Discipline each combat. [ani] Strike: dodge, with an additional strike. [cel] Additional strike (that doesn't count against the limit). [obt] Play if this anarch is ready and the opposing minion is not. The opposing minion's controller burns 2 pool.

[ quoted text not captured ] That's what I'm reading the card text to say, why wouldn't you be able too? best - chris

[ quoted text not captured ] Rulebook 6.4.3: Can't get more than one source of additionals. I understand HFL to work exactly like Jacko's built in strike. If you're going to use it, you have to use it first.

[ quoted text not captured ] you are mistaken about both Hell for Leather and Jacko's strike 0 + 1 = 1 1 + 0 = 1 1 source of addtionals is all you get, but if they don't count against your total then Jacko could play Blur for 2 adds then Hell for Leather at cel and Quickness at sup and then top it off with his own additional strike for FIVE additional strikes 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 1 source of additional strikes 2 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 5 additional strikes

[ quoted text not captured ] Well, after reading an entire thread on additional strikes, I still do not feel that I'm sure you are right. LSJ> Is there a concise summary/example of how additional strikes actually work? Is it in the rulebook?

On Jan 12, 12:32 am, Juggernaut1981 <brasscompo...@gmail.com> wrote: > LSJ> Is there a concise summary/example of how additional strikes > actually work? Is it in the rulebook? Yes. [6.4.3] "Strike", under the heading "Additional Strikes".

[ quoted text not captured ] 6.4.3 states that "A minion cannot use more than one card or effect to gain additional strikes per round of combat." Even if a card says "Additional strike (that doesn't count against the limit)", the fact that you are USING the card as a source of multiple additional strikes seems to be clearly illegal, no matter the "doesn't count" phrase. Unless you're defining "that doesn't count against the limit" as not "using"? Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/ Please buy my cards! http://shop.ebay.com/kjmergen/m.html Please attend my qualifier! http://members.cox.net/vtesinlv/

[ quoted text not captured ] My mistake. I should have also referenced [1.4]. Yes, indeed, the card text that says it doesn't count against the limit given in 6.4.3 means that it doesn't count against that limit.

LSJ schrieb: [ quoted text not captured ] So to get it 100% straight: all cards that saay "doesn�t count against the limit" just ignore any previous additional strikes, correct? So it is contrary to the Trifle mechanism (where you have to play the Trifle first).

On Jan 12, 11:18 am, Johannes Walch <johannes.wa...@vekn.de> wrote: > LSJ schrieb: > > Yes, indeed, the card text that says it doesn't count against the > > limit given in 6.4.3 means that it doesn't count against that limit. > > So to get it 100% straight: all cards that saay "doesn´t count against > the limit" just ignore any previous additional strikes, correct? So it > is contrary to the Trifle mechanism (where you have to play the Trifle > first). They ignore them in as far as the limit they themselves do not count against is concerned, per card text, sure. As XZealot says: 1 + 0 = 0 + 1 <= the limit (which is 1). Quickness won't ignore a previously-played Quickness, of course (card text: " A vampire may only play one Quickness each round."). It works differently than the Trifle mechanism, sure. The Trifle mechanism ignores nothing and does not remove itself from counting against someything. It costs an MPA. The effect of the Trifle gives you another MPA. There is no "Additional Strike Action" to spend. Likewise there is no limit on the number of MPAs you can spend (if you have them) in a given master phase.

On Jan 13, 3:27 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > On Jan 12, 11:18 am, Johannes Walch <johannes.wa...@vekn.de> wrote: > > > LSJ schrieb: > > > Yes, indeed, the card text that says it doesn't count against the > > > limit given in 6.4.3 means that it doesn't count against that limit. > > > So to get it 100% straight: all cards that saay "doesn´t count against > > the limit" just ignore any previous additional strikes, correct? So it > > is contrary to the Trifle mechanism (where you have to play the Trifle > > first). > So to confirm... You NEED to play/gain/generate/declare any "does not count against the limit" additional strikes before you gain any "standard additional strikes"? Jacko can Strike, Use his own Additional, Quickness, Blur (declaring relevant strikes when needed) because His Additional & Quickness do not count against the limit of generating additional strikes... but CANNOT Strike, Blur, Use his own Additional, Quickness (declaring relevant strikes when needed) because the Blur triggers his "one source of additional strikes" and precludes him from generating more additional strikes later in that round of combat.

On Jan 12, 5:00 pm, Juggernaut1981 <brasscompo...@gmail.com> wrote: > So to confirm... > > You NEED to play/gain/generate/declare any "does not count against the > limit" additional strikes before you gain any "standard additional > strikes"? Huh? No, that's exactly the opposite of what he said above - Jacko can do either. 1+0 = 0+1, and both are <=1. - D.J.