Maximum Bleed Fantasy

[This is also being posted to the Listserv, so apologies to those who have already read it there] Hello folks - I haven't posted here for a dog's age... I was putting together some new decks last night, and I happened to read Spiridonas' ability again. I started noodling with what truly is the maximum bleed you can do in one bleed action? My figuring is without RTI. I calculate you can bleed someone for up to 102 pool. This of course assumes that you are never blocked, never bled, never get in combat, your cards come up in the exact order required, and have about 265 turns to do this. Since this is a "theoretical" case, I think all those are reasonable assumptions. Also this assumes that the Wizards spoiler list is correct and that Camarilla Vitae Slave is not unique. And finally I don't know if you can use Spiridonas' ability if you play a Conditioning. If not, then you lose the conditioning, but gain a Camarilla Vitae Slave for a bleed of 100. Another problem you might have is getting around the 2 hour round limit in the DCI tournament format. I also posted a more practical deck in another post titled Maximum Bleed Reality that I am actually going to attempt to play once and try to get off a few +20 bleeds. Crypt: 9+ Spiridonas - you must get him in your original crypt draw Master Legendary Vampire Auspex Minion cards - Actions Ankara Citadel Invereray Scotland Pulse of Canaille Clan Impersonation 82 x Camarilla Vitae Slaves (CVS) Govern the Unaligned Minion Cards - Action Modifiers Conditioning So the sequence would go like this. Turn 1 + 2. Influence. Turn 3. (regardless of whether you go 1st or 5th).You influence Spiridonas up. Turn 4. Master phase you put Legendary Vampire on him (+2 bleed). He equips with the Ankara Citadel (cost 1) Turn 5. Master - You put Auspex on him. He Clan Impersonates to Lasombra (only costs 1) Turn 6. He hires 1 Camarilla Vitae Slave. (costs 1) Turn 7. Pulse of Canaille (costs 1) - he uses his CVS for superior Auspex. Turn 8. CVS (costs 1) Turn 9. CVS (costs 1) Turn 10. CVS (costs 1) Turn 11. CVS (costs 1) Turn 12. CVS (costs 1) Spiridonas is now at 0 blood, so he must hunt, then hire a CVS. He has 76 CVS' to go at this point. So it will take him 152 turns. He will be a capacity 91 vampire. So to get up to full capacity, he must now hunt 91 times. So we are at turn 256. Turn 256. Get the Invereray Scotland (costs 1) You can do this Invereray stuff at the beginning if you want, I just forgot about it until now. In fact you can do most of this stuff in any order. You just need to put the Legendary Vampire on him right after he is influenced, and you will want to put the Ankara Citadel on him almost immediately, or you will have to use about 80 more turns to hunt twice, then hire each CVS. And you will need to put the Auspex on him before you add the Pulse. Turn 257. Hunt Turn 258. Action to add 1 blood to Scotland (costs 1) Turn 259. Action to add 1 blood to Scotland (costs 1) Turn 260. Action to add 1 blood to Scotland (costs 1). Turn 261 - 263 Hunt. Spiridonas is now a 91 capacity vampire, full; he is a Legendary Vampire (+2) with a Pulse (base 3) and Invereray (+3). Turn 264. He Governs at minor (+2), gets through and Conditions (+3) and then uses his special ability (+89). He is bleeding his ever patient prey for 102 pool. But Spiridonas' (Methuselah A) grand prey (Meth C) life boons his prey(Meth B), ousting herself, yet not saving Spiridonas' prey . Her prey (Meth D) life boons her, ousting himself, but not saving Meth C. Finally, Meth E, Spiridonas' predator, life boons Meth D, but ousts himself but can't save Meth D either. So who gets all the victory points? And does Spiridonas win or lose? I am too fried right now with trying to figure out this kooky spiridonas deck to figure it out. Can anyone figure out a way to bleed for more? Or do the same size bleed in less turns? If you are playing with RTI using the original text (don't know the NJL rulings...), then I guess you can bleed for Spiridonas' capacity (+91), and again use his ability, minus the cost of the ability, 2, and the cost of the RTI, 2 (remember the Ankara Citadel!) for +87, Pulse, Legendary, Invereray, and Conditioning (if legal) for a total bleed of 189. Crazy stuff, eh? Chris -- Chris Shorb, Monger of stuff Tammy Martin, Queen of the Eastern Marches, and damn good mom Alexander Shorb, little guy who could Shameless plug: <www.thethirdplanet.com>

Chris Shorb & Tammy Martin wrote in message <37E27399...@ix.netcom.com>... >Can anyone figure out a way to bleed for more? Or do the >same size bleed in less turns? That's the easy one; 1 The Hungry Coyote (After Sabbat Clan Impersonation. Reduces The CVS hunt turns by 1/2) 1 Festivo Dello Estinto (He's Sabbat, now) and avoid hunting the 91 times to get to capacity But this reduces your overall bleed by 2, so I wouldn't bother saving the extra 100+ turns ;-) > Crazy stuff, eh? yeh. Regards, R. David Zopf Atom Weaver (& V:EKN Prince of Charlotte, NC)

Ah yes - both good suggestions. I also realized that if I took actions to equip with a Laptop, Tasha, J.S. and also took a political action to become a Sabbat Inquisitor, those would all give me +1 bleed without my having to hunt, thereby saving about 8 turns. On another topic - I am going to be in Massachusetts in mid-October (Groton actually) and I am negotiating with my personal boss (my wife, bless her) to get a night to go play Jyhad. Any suggestions - still got connections in Boston? Thanks, Chris Richard Zopf wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] -- [ quoted text not captured ]

Richard Zopf wrote: > > Chris Shorb & Tammy Martin wrote in message > <37E27399...@ix.netcom.com>... > >Can anyone figure out a way to bleed for more? Or do the > >same size bleed in less turns? > That's the easy one; > 1 The Hungry Coyote (After Sabbat Clan Impersonation. Reduces The CVS > hunt turns by 1/2) > 1 Festivo Dello Estinto (He's Sabbat, now) and avoid hunting the 91 > times to get to capacity > But this reduces your overall bleed by 2, so I wouldn't bother saving > the extra 100+ turns ;-) > > > Crazy stuff, eh? > yeh. > > Regards, > R. David Zopf > Atom Weaver (& V:EKN Prince of Charlotte, NC) Don't forget to play a discipline on him every turn until he has superior everything (or are we playing with 90 card max? You have to be playing with no library limit if you want the game to last long enough anyway.). Before Conditioning use Command of the Beast (+1 bleed). A couple of Praxis Seizure cards give +1 capacity to a Tremere, which he could switch back to after he gets all his CVS's. He might switch to Tzimisce for a while and build a Living Manse. Hell, this is unlimited unless you either have a library limit or a one card limit (using only 1 CVS, 1 of each discipline, etc.) I have tried to figure out the biggest hand strike using no multiple cards. Angus or Stanislava do equally well using lots of Discipline cards, Island of Yiaros (a Ventrue only has to be there when you bring it out), Gangrel Revel, Ritual Challenge, Legendary Vampire (more votes = more hand damage), Uncontrolled Rage, all the usual potence stuff like Fists of Death, Fire in the Blood (has to be limited to first round or this makes the situation infinite or based on counting cards that give presses, which would be especially annoying if you consider the use of Trap and Conquer the Beast to continue indefinitely with other cards played every few turns), Death of my Conscience (+8!), and Increased Strength, the Vicissitude stuff like Zulo Form and Body Arsenal, and I forget what else. The opposing vampire plays Drawing out the Beast. The actual strike is Pushing the Limit. If all that is at superior, I count 30 aggravated hand damage. That's enough to kill most vampires. Your Spirodonas would only have to go to torpor. Any suggestions for this one? NaTe, Thrall of Lambach (Lazverinus is pretty good too)

Chris Shorb & Tammy Martin wrote: > assumptions. Also this assumes that the Wizards spoiler > list is correct and that Camarilla Vitae Slave is not > unique. And finally I don't know if you can use Spiridonas' > ability if you play a Conditioning. If not, then you lose CVS is not unique. Spiridonas's ability can be used before or after playing Conditioning. -- LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) V:TES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/rules.asp

Chris Shorb & Tammy Martin wrote: > Hello folks - I haven't posted here for a dog's age... > <snip everything from here down about blah blah blah...> >Turn 264. He Governs at minor (+2), gets through and >Conditions (+3) and then uses his special ability (+89). He >is bleeding his ever patient prey for 102 pool. Archon Investigations suck, don't they =) -- Tuomas Rinta työ: +358-9-70844393 gsm: +358-40-5838021 tuomas...@helsinki.fi