Stealth vs. Null Intercept [Q: LSJ]

I am aware that you cannot play extra stealth cards unless the blocking minion matches intercept. I can see that if I do an +1 Stealth action and the blocking minion gains +1 Intercept I can now play an additional stealth. But can I announce my Arson action and immediately add +1 Stealth to it or must I wait for a block attempt before I can add stealth. Or another way of putting this is does a minion who declines to block have Null intercept or 0 intercept. Should we consider an action like Arson a 0 Stealth action and the decision to block gives the blocker 0 Intercept as oppossed to the Null intercept they had before the block decision is made. I know this is all confusing but I think we've been playing a little wrong for a while now by allowing a minion to declare an action and add a single stealth card (if the oppossing Meth. has an untapped minion) whether a block is declared or not. Robert ...................................................................... :The opinions expressed here are strictly my own delusional ramblings: :and do not reflect the opinions of The Walt Disney Company. : : : :Robert Goudie robert...@studio.disney.com: :....................................................................: :cigars * v:tes * car rallies * scotch * sega rally champion * spoon : :....................................................................:

Robert Goudie <robert...@studio.disney.com> writes: >I am aware that you cannot play extra stealth cards unless the blocking >minion matches intercept. I can see that if I do an +1 Stealth action >and the blocking minion gains +1 Intercept I can now play an additional >stealth. But can I announce my Arson action and immediately add +1 >Stealth to it or must I wait for a block attempt before I can add >stealth. Or another way of putting this is does a minion who declines to >block have Null intercept or 0 intercept. Should we consider an action Not quite the way it works, but the actual effect is the same as if the answer to this question were "Null intercept". That is, you must wait for a block attempt before increasing your stealth. The actual rule is that you cannot increase a minion's stealth unless the stealth is needed. If no one is attempting to block, then you don't need intercept. >like Arson a 0 Stealth action and the decision to block gives the >blocker 0 Intercept as oppossed to the Null intercept they had before >the block decision is made. I know this is all confusing but I think >we've been playing a little wrong for a while now by allowing a minion >to declare an action and add a single stealth card (if the oppossing >Meth. has an untapped minion) whether a block is declared or not. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Freedom means choosing http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | your burden. Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | -- Hephzibah Menuhin

Robert Goudie <robert...@studio.disney.com> hath spake thusly: >I am aware that you cannot play extra stealth cards unless the blocking >minion matches intercept. I can see that if I do an +1 Stealth action >and the blocking minion gains +1 Intercept I can now play an additional >stealth. But can I announce my Arson action and immediately add +1 >Stealth to it or must I wait for a block attempt before I can add >stealth. Or another way of putting this is does a minion who declines to >block have Null intercept or 0 intercept. Should we consider an action >like Arson a 0 Stealth action and the decision to block gives the >blocker 0 Intercept as oppossed to the Null intercept they had before >the block decision is made. I know this is all confusing but I think >we've been playing a little wrong for a while now by allowing a minion >to declare an action and add a single stealth card (if the oppossing >Meth. has an untapped minion) whether a block is declared or not. You may add stealth via an action modifier card only when a minion that you control is taking an action which has a blocking minion with equal or greater intercept. So after you declare the action you must wait for a blocking minion to appear (someone must attempt to block) and you must wait for that minion to have intercept equal to or greater than your current stealth. Please note that you may declare zero stealth actions and tap Backways or things like that, and you may attempt actions that have zero inherent stealth with a minion that has an inherent +? stealth ( Muaziz for example ). HTH Stu >Robert

st...@atl.mindspring.com (Stuart J. Pieloch) writes: >You may add stealth via an action modifier card only when a minion >that you control is taking an action which has a blocking minion with >equal or greater intercept. So after you declare the action you must >wait for a blocking minion to appear (someone must attempt to block) >and you must wait for that minion to have intercept equal to or >greater than your current stealth. Please note that you may declare >zero stealth actions and tap Backways or things like that, and you may >attempt actions that have zero inherent stealth with a minion that has >an inherent +? stealth ( Muaziz for example ). All correct, except the part about Backways. While an action may start with stealth (that it obviously doesn't require at the time, since no blockers have been declared), you cannot *increase* an acting minion's stealth unless the stealth is needed to overcome the intercept of the current blocker. Having an acting minion start with stealth is allowable, of course (Muaziz, Night Moves, hunting, etc.) [ quoted text not captured ]

>All correct, except the part about Backways. >While an action may start with stealth (that it obviously doesn't >require at the time, since no blockers have been declared), you >cannot *increase* an acting minion's stealth unless the stealth >is needed to overcome the intercept of the current blocker. >-- >L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Freedom means choosing This is interesting since I can understand that ruling extending to all forms of action modifier but I would very much like to see a rule or ruling somewhere that prevents the use of a master to add stealth or intercept to an action. I may be wrong but I remember the rules being set up for limiting what conditions may exists for you to play an action modifier card. Just like Retainers and equipment the cards on the table can be used (or not if they allow that) as you wish and not neccessarily as you need them. I was just wondering if this was an interprited extension of the "no Additional stealth may be played" type ruling or if it is actually covered somewhere. Just thinking out loud. Stu

In article <5bivhm$3...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) wrote: >Retainers *must* be used - they always apply. A minion with Mr. Winthrop >always has +1 intercept, whether he needs it or not. A vampire with >the Marijava Ghoul immediately has +1 stealth when attempting Legal >Manipulations. > >Equipment is always optional - so you couldn't gain +1 intercept from >a Sport BIke unless you needed it for your current block attempt (not that >this particular example makes any difference one way or the other - >the Sport Bike is never tapped). Actually it does make a difference: assume you have a tapped Prince blocking a hunt (+1 stealth) with 2. Tradition - he starts at +2 intercept. Would he have Mr. Winthrop he could only use the untap effect of 2. Tradition and would waste the intercept. The Sport Bike on the other hand saves the intercept. (which IMHO alone justifies the 1 pool cost for the bike) Michael -- Michael Gerdau email: m.ge...@elmshorn.netsurf.de 2b or not 2b that's ff (or ger...@ifm.uni-hamburg.de) WWW-Homepage http://elmshorn.netsurf.de/~m.gerdau PGP-key available on request or at public keyserver Key fingerprint = 1FA5AEC97D4EF476 E964D42685B60B4E

st...@atl.mindspring.com (Stuart J. Pieloch) writes: >>L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) writes: >>All correct, except the part about Backways. >>While an action may start with stealth (that it obviously doesn't >>require at the time, since no blockers have been declared), you >>cannot *increase* an acting minion's stealth unless the stealth >>is needed to overcome the intercept of the current blocker. >This is interesting since I can understand that ruling extending to >all forms of action modifier but I would very much like to see a rule >or ruling somewhere that prevents the use of a master to add stealth >or intercept to an action. I may be wrong but I remember the rules >being set up for limiting what conditions may exists for you to play >an action modifier card. The rule is a general one, and doesn't mention Action Modifier specifically (nor master cards or what have you). See below. Thomas Doehne and I went over this rule when evaluating how broken Angelica is. > Just like Retainers and equipment the cards >on the table can be used (or not if they allow that) as you wish and >not neccessarily as you need them. Retainers *must* be used - they always apply. A minion with Mr. Winthrop always has +1 intercept, whether he needs it or not. A vampire with the Marijava Ghoul immediately has +1 stealth when attempting Legal Manipulations. Equipment is always optional - so you couldn't gain +1 intercept from a Sport BIke unless you needed it for your current block attempt (not that this particular example makes any difference one way or the other - the Sport Bike is never tapped). >I was just wondering if this was an interprited extension of the "no >Additional stealth may be played" type ruling or if it is actually >covered somewhere. It is covered: Errata to the VtES rulebook (from Tom Wylie): --------------------------------------------- Section 17 Stealth and Intercept You may not increase a minion's stealth unless another minion is attempting to block, and you need to overcome that minion's intercept. Similarly, you may not increase a minion's intercept unless it is trying to block a minion whose stealth is higher. Jyhad rulebook: --------------- 13.3.2. Stealth and Intercept A player cannot increase stealth or intercept beyond that needed to counter directly another player's increase of stealth or intercept; -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Freedom means choosing [ quoted text not captured ]