LSJ: Uncontrollable Rage and Mask

If Chandler Hungerford (who has superior protean) played a bum rush and rushed Sir Walter Nash. Immediately after playing the bum's rush, Chandler Hungerford played uncontrollable rage (giving him +2 aggravated hand damage for the duration of this action). Daliya (the Nosferatu with obfuscate and Superior Protean) then plays Mask of 1000 Faces to take the place of Chandler Hungerford in this bums rush. How does this resolve? Does Daliya get the +2 aggravated hand damage? Does Daliya pay for the uncontrollable rage instead of Chandler Hungerford? It would seem to me that Daliya would get the aggravated hand damage but Chandler would still pay for it. Is this how is resolves? Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown Jr. X_Zealot Archon of the Swamp Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

In article <8hu43r$68m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, X_Ze...@email.msn.com wrote: >It would > seem to me that Daliya would get the aggravated hand damage but Chandler > would still pay for it. Is this how is resolves? UR's text specifies 'this acting vampire.' Unlike the most common action modifiers, which modify the action itself (adding stealth or bleed, for example), UR modifies the acting vampire. The cost is paid and the benefit is given to Chandler. After Masking, Daliyah takes over the Bum's Rush action, but is not herself Raging. This is still useful, though -- UR's effect remains for the whole action, so if (for example) Daliyah is unblocked in her Bum's Rush, her controller could Mask the action back to Chandler for an unpleasant surprise. This switcheroo requies two Masks and is only surprising the first time, so I wouldn't base a deck around it, but someone else might find a way to make it work. gomi [ quoted text not captured ]

Hashi Lebwohl <ha...@my-deja.com> wrote: > X_Ze...@email.msn.com wrote: > >It would > > seem to me that Daliya would get the aggravated hand damage but > Chandler > > would still pay for it. Is this how is resolves? > > UR's text specifies 'this acting vampire.' Unlike the most common > action modifiers, which modify the action itself (adding stealth or > bleed, for example), UR modifies the acting vampire. The cost > is paid and the benefit is given to Chandler. After Masking, Daliyah > takes over the Bum's Rush action, but is not herself Raging. Correct: Mask of 1000 Faces - Action Modifier (obf) * All action modifiers remain in effect, but inherent modifiers (a minion's inherent +1 bleed, e.g.) do not. Effects applied to a minion (e.g., Backways) also do not carry over to the new (masking) vampire. [RTR 10-NOV-1995] -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

> Correct: > > Mask of 1000 Faces - Action Modifier (obf) > > * All action modifiers remain in effect, but inherent modifiers (a > minion's inherent +1 bleed, e.g.) do not. Effects applied to a > minion (e.g., Backways) also do not carry over to the new > (masking) vampire. [RTR 10-NOV-1995] I am curious about this ruling. The spirit of the card is that the minion that plays the Mask of 1000 Faces was the minion that iniated the action but was merely disgused as someone else and is now revealing himself. It would seem to me that inherant modifers should not apply but effects applied to the minion should as it is and always was the same minion (Daliya, who is disguised as Chandler Hungerford, uses the backways to gain +1 stealth as no one and nothing thinks she is anything other than a size 3 gangrel. She later after making her way through the backways reveals herself to be a size 4 Noseferatu then crawls through the Labiryth at an additional +1 stealth). Thank you for your time and patience. Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown Jr. X_Zealot Archon of the Swamp [ quoted text not captured ]

X_Ze...@email.msn.com wrote: > > Correct: > > > > Mask of 1000 Faces - Action Modifier (obf) > > > > * All action modifiers remain in effect, but inherent modifiers (a > > minion's inherent +1 bleed, e.g.) do not. Effects applied to a > > minion (e.g., Backways) also do not carry over to the new > > (masking) vampire. [RTR 10-NOV-1995] > > I am curious about this ruling. The spirit of the card is that the > minion that plays the Mask of 1000 Faces was the minion that iniated the > action but was merely disgused as someone else and is now revealing > himself. Yes. > It would seem to me that inherant modifers should not apply > but effects applied to the minion should as it is and always was the > same minion (Daliya, who is disguised as Chandler Hungerford, uses the > backways to gain +1 stealth as no one and nothing thinks she is anything > other than a size 3 gangrel. She later after making her way through the > backways reveals herself to be a size 4 Noseferatu then crawls through > the Labiryth at an additional +1 stealth). Thank you for your time and > patience. Why would inherent persona-based modifiers then not apply, no one and nothing suspects that the vampire is anyone but Ozmo, so the +1 bleed should stick, too. Sometimes "real world" considerations have to yield. In this case, it seems easy enough to treat things that are applied to a minion as being applied to that minion rather than the action. ("Real World" has already been granted an additional foothold in Mask to help straighten out some of this - but "fixing" the minion-based stuff is probably more complicated than it's worth). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8i2tba$6no$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] My arguement on that would be that they simply do not have that ability. Now they have bluffed themselves that far, but when push comes to shove, they just aren't able to perform. Thus they reveal themsleves as something less then what they said they were, and are performing at a lower level (Thus Duck after masking as Muaziz would be caught after losing her/his inherent stealth) > Sometimes "real world" considerations have to yield. In this case, > it seems easy enough to treat things that are applied to a minion > as being applied to that minion rather than the action. I agree that on many cases this is a fact. But I would hope that this case, though a confusing issue which has already been ruled upon, would be revieved in light of a more dynamic use of the card other than mere sneak and bleed (the above mentioned Uncontrollable Fury). [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ wrote: > Why would inherent persona-based modifiers then not apply, no one and > nothing suspects that the vampire is anyone but Ozmo, so the +1 bleed > should stick, too. Because the vampire *isn't* Ozmo, and thus doesn't actually possess a +1 bleed, even if others think he does. -David

[ quoted text not captured ] Conceptually, bleed is largely a matter of what others think. But in parallel, in the other example, the vampire doesn't actually possess uncontrollable rage, even if others think he does. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. [ quoted text not captured ]