Anarch Title vs Independent Title. (lSJ)

An Independent, titled vampire going Anarch, most likely through Secession, keeps their title. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_thread/thread/b0bb7060c30c0f62/7f587bc039515aa3?lnk=gst&q=anarch+title+secession#7f587bc039515aa3 Aziz becomes Anarch through AS, then uses FS:Wherever to become the Baron of Wherever. Which of these is correct then? 1) His innate title gives him 2 votes. OR 2) The fact that he has 2 votes gives him a title. If it's 2, never mind. If it's 1, does becoming a Baron then give him 4 votes?

On Dec 3, 8:37 pm, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote: > An Independent, titled vampire going Anarch, most likely through > Secession, keeps their title. > > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_t... > > Aziz becomes Anarch through AS, then uses FS:Wherever to become the > Baron of Wherever. > Which of these is correct then? > 1) His innate title gives him 2 votes. > OR > 2) The fact that he has 2 votes gives him a title. > > If it's 2, never mind. > > If it's 1, does becoming a Baron then give him 4 votes? edit :Title. Doh!

Blooded Sand wrote: > On Dec 3, 8:37 pm, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote: >> An Independent, titled vampire going Anarch, most likely through >> Secession, keeps their title. >> >> Aziz becomes Anarch through AS, then uses FS:Wherever to become the >> Baron of Wherever. >> Which of these is correct then? >> 1) His innate title gives him 2 votes. >> OR >> 2) The fact that he has 2 votes gives him a title. >> >> If it's 2, never mind. >> >> If it's 1, does becoming a Baron then give him 4 votes? He loses his "Aziz has 2 votes" title when he gains the Baron title, so neither 1 nor 2 is correct. 3) His only title, which is Baron, gives him 2 votes.

On Dec 3, 1:39 pm, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Dec 3, 8:37 pm, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > An Independent, titled vampire going Anarch, most likely through > > Secession, keeps their title. > > >http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_t... > > > Aziz becomes Anarch through AS, then uses FS:Wherever to become the > > Baron of Wherever. > > Which of these is correct then? > > 1) His innate title gives him 2 votes. > > OR > > 2) The fact that he has 2 votes gives him a title. > 3) That fact that he's a Baron gives him 2 votes. > > If it's 2, never mind. > > > If it's 1, does becoming a Baron then give him 4 votes? > No. You can't have two titles at once. If Aziz had +X votes for burning X vampires, he would keep those votes, because those additional votes are not a title, and so would not be overwritten by the Baron title.

[ quoted text not captured ] So his actual title is "Aziz has 2 votes"? Really? Hilarious!

Blooded Sand wrote: > So his actual title is "Aziz has 2 votes"? Really? http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec10_4

[ quoted text not captured ] Some Independent vampires may start with votes, as listed on card text. Treat these vampires as if they had titles of their own. Ok. So they have votes. And they are treated *as if* they have titles, important for Reinforcements et al. But if you compare this to the rule for city titles where it states that a prince/archbishop title is worth 2 votes, that means it is the title that gives the votes. The first example is treated as if titles, because they have 2 votes. The second has 2 votes because they have a title. Which comes back to Independent's keeping their votes during a title change.

On Dec 3, 3:21 pm, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Dec 3, 9:08 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > > Blooded Sand wrote: > > > So his actual title is "Aziz has 2 votes"? Really? > > >http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec10_4 > > Some Independent vampires may start with votes, as listed on card > text. Treat these vampires as if they had titles of their own. > > Ok. So they have votes. > And they are treated *as if* they have titles, important for > Reinforcements et al. Treating him as if he has a title also means losing the votes associated with the old title when he gains a new one. -witness1

[ quoted text not captured ] But that is exactly my point. The votes are not associated with the title, the title is associated with the votes, which is the exact opposite of a city title

[ quoted text not captured ] The Independent vampire with two votes is treated as having a title worth 2 votes. The vampire is treated as a vampire with a title for all purposes (since the rules specify no restriction), including losing that title if he or she gains another. > Which comes back to Independent's keeping their votes during a title > change. Which comes back to the answer that the votes from that title are lost during a title change.