Repost: V:TES A.G.

LSJ recently posted on the White Wolf forum some very fascinating information concerning what happens to VTES After Gehenna. Haven't seen a repost on the newsgroup yet so I thought I'd copy the information for those who don't frequent the White Wolf forum much: Subject: V:TES A.G. LSJ - 12/02/2003 14:27:13 - vte...@white-wolf.com We haven't yet decided the nature of the first expansion after Gehenna (Gehenna is due out in May 2004). Any suggestions (that remain in the present time)? Some possible ideas: An expansion centered around allies and equipment (boys and their toys). Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom <City> by Night - e.g., Paris by Night or Berlin by Night. Other Feel free to post here, but for real counting, email me directly at vte...@white-wolf.com with the subject "V:TES A.G." Thanks, Scott Enjoy! Halcyan 2

Halcyan 2 wrote: > > Any suggestions (that remain in the present time)? > > Some possible ideas: > > An expansion centered around allies and equipment (boys and their toys). > Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom <City> by Night - e.g., Paris by Night or Berlin > by Night. > > Would Kindred of the East work? I think that would be really cool. Or how about South American Kindred? How about Rebels - Serpents of Light, Assamite Antis, etc. After Gehenna, the entire World of Darkness is ours! Bwahahahaha! chris -- chris shorb <www.vtesinla.org> (A V:TES site) prince of torrance, california *** Into the abyss I'll fall - the eye of Horus Into the eyes of the night - watching me go Green is the cat's eye that glows - in this temple Enter the risen Osiris - risen again - Dickinson

Halcyan 2 wrote: > > LSJ recently posted on the White Wolf forum some very fascinating information > concerning what happens to VTES After Gehenna. Haven't seen a repost on the > newsgroup yet so I thought I'd copy the information for those who don't > frequent the White Wolf forum much: I wonder if this was simply a random oversite, or if it signals a shift in attention away from the newsgroup and towards the forums? Certainly a petition for input on the content of the next expansion seems important to me. Personally, I don't frequent the forums, nor do I think the level of expertise is as high there as it is here, but I could be wrong about that. -- David Cherryholmes Duke Radiology P.E.T. Facility (919) 684-7714 david.che...@duke.edu

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 08:52:02 -0500, David Cherryholmes <david.che...@duke.edu> wrote: >important to me. Personally, I don't frequent the forums, nor do I >think the level of expertise is as high there as it is here, but I could >be wrong about that. Your impression is correct. Xian

how about a inconnu expansion,that would really cool for vtes mike

In message <3FCDEA82...@duke.edu>, David Cherryholmes <david.che...@duke.edu> mumbled something about: >I wonder if this was simply a random oversite, or if it signals a shift >in attention away from the newsgroup and towards the forums? Certainly >a petition for input on the content of the next expansion seems >important to me. Personally, I don't frequent the forums, nor do I >think the level of expertise is as high there as it is here, but I could >be wrong about that. The forums are representative of a different type of V:TES player, in general. There was a while when I read both, and made an effort to respond to both of them; I no longer have anywhere NEAR that amount of free time available, so I do well just to occasionally catch up here. The newsgroup has all of the tactical and technical experts; the people who enjoy the game itself, but are primarily quite good at the "how to win" portion. Most of the multi-rush deck ideas, for example, have come from miscellaneous discussions here on r.g.t-c.j -- this is a relatively recent archetype in comparison to Days of Yore. It is also the home of the Dog Poo: the Eternal Struggle contingent; those who would play the game no matter what the art and names were, because the quality of the game itself is so rich. The webforums lean much more towards the people who are primarily playing for the flavor of the game, and/or people who are involved in the World of Darkness in some other fashion... or people who play mostly in their local playgroups, and are just now discovering that there is a whole worldwide community of V:TES players. They are generally very up on WoD issues and the like, and much more likely to be aware of the backstory behind things than your average USENETtizen. The technical expertise is significantly less, however; you will frequently see issues thrown back and forth constantly that were hashed out on the newsgroup years ago, with almost the exact same arguments being brought up for and against, and the "malk stealth bleed is cheesy!!" post still shows up there pretty frequently. As such, I'm not surprised that the request for ideas went out to the webforum. They're much more likely to HAVE an opinion on what they'd like to see; the DP:TES contingent doesn't really care which way the direction goes as long as new strategy options and cards keep coming. I know I personally couldn't care less what the theme of the next expansion is. -- Derek "From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of idiots." - unknown

Halcyan 2 <halc...@aol.com> a écrit dans le message : 20031202231446...@mb-m16.aol.com... > An expansion centered around allies and equipment (boys and their toys). > Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom <City> by Night - e.g., Paris by Night or Berlin > by Night. ah ah. Finally, we will see loads of french vampires with baguettes and berets. And all the possible variations of Kamel's face (Kamel drunk, Kamel sober and dealing to get his VP, Kamel breaking a deal). And don't forget the frogs :) Stone

"Stone" <mc_judg...@yahoo.fr> wrote in message news:3fceea79$0$28716$626a...@news.free.fr... [ quoted text not captured ] i know you are quite intimate with the new prince of paris, but why one player alone should represent a the wide array of tastes, playstyles and values of a large country of v:tes players ? most of us don't wear such ugly ties ;)

halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote in message news:<20031202231446...@mb-m16.aol.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] Hi. Just want to add my opinion to the topic. A whole expansion centering on allies and equipment seems a bit too much. They seem better suited to being part of whatever expansion ets released. like, if it is a City expanison, make the allies and equipment the Kindred of said city or region would most likely rely upon. I love allies and equipment though, so nothing against a whole expansion on them, it just feels like kind of a lacking theme for a whole expansion. The City expansions would be nice, only a lot of the by night books have already been explored. With the exception of Cairo by Night, most other by nights have had at least 50% or so of their vampires released, sometimes more, like the Mexico kindred. So instead of having City expansions, we could have bigger regions, like whole countries or even continents. South America and Africa are the most unexplored. A South American expansion would be very nice, and I volunteer to help WW with any questions they might have about ideas for cards, the general feel of such expansion and whatever. The Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom would also be a great choice, and fill the need for an African Expansion. Not all of you may know, but the African "clans" are the same clans we already have, only they call themselves other names and some have different dicsipline spreads, like the Nosferatu having Presence instead of Animalism I think. So they wouldn´t be like having new bloodlines, but at the same time would be a bit different from the existing clans. And almost all of them are represented, there just aren´t any African variety of Malkavians, Ventrue Tremere and Giovanni, but they do have surviving lines of Salubri and Cappadocians. And the Followers of Set from Africa are 100% like their non-sub-saharan counterparts. The Assmaites are mainly of the Sorcerer variety, so their disciplines are Obfuscate, Quietus and Assamite Sorcery. And the coolest part is that, since there are no African Giovanni, Tremere, Malkavians or Ventrue, the only local "clan" with Dominate are the Lasombra, who use their almost exclusive control of the dicsipline there very efficiently. Another idea that would be nice and 90% of the people who bother to express their opinions seem to really want is another bloodlines expansion. I do think that it should NOT be the first expansion after Gehhena though. A region specific expansion, that would be the size of a basic set seems nicer. And whatever expansion that gets made, it should adress the Independents and their current state of inferiority. So basically, I would vote for: 1)A Regional expansion, Africa or South America. Any other regions are somewhat covered already or do not have enough Kindred to merit that (like China and the east in general). This expansion could also be BIG, a new basic expansion, since the Camarilla Edition will be kind of old by the time this new one (at least the middle of 2005 by what the people at WW are saying). A new basic expansion will PROBABLY mean the dawn of group 4, which is something not all of us are looking forward to, but if it must come, it must come. 2)A Bloodlines 2 expansion. With the same 12 bloodlines introduced in the first. WW seems adverse to more bloodlines cards, and I frankly do not know why. I also think that since they have not had any real support since their release, save them for this new Bloodlines 2 expansion whenever it comes, and have their vampires all be group 4 if that is the only way they will do it. The dicsipline and clan cards would be useable, and having the new vamps be group 4 will not cause any balance issues, or take away the original intent that bloodlines are not supposed to have whole crypts based on them. 3)A new expansion for the Independents, a la Final Nights. Maybe this won´t get done as the first expansion after Gehenna since the independent group 3 vampires are still mostly inexistent. But after Gehenna (which I think will have new vampires for all clans, not bloodlines) and a new regional and or basic expansion, they could safely make a new Independent expansion, since they could be able to introduce group 4 by then. I would personally very much lie a new Independent expansion before a new Bbloodlines expansion. Daniel.

halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote in message news:<20031202231446...@mb-m16.aol.com>... > LSJ recently posted on the White Wolf forum some very fascinating information > concerning what happens to VTES After Gehenna.... > Feel free to post here, but for real counting, email me directly at > vte...@white-wolf.com with the subject "V:TES A.G." > Cut and paste the following: Dear Scott, I think Matt Green's idea for a "Kindred's most Wanted" expansion rocks and that you should implement it immediately. I want to play with savage renegade vampires and werewolves and lots of Archons to hunt them all down. Please also give some thought to his ideas on thaumaturgy cards requiring infernal minions and the 'trophy clan mechanic'. yours brutally, _______________________ <-your name here. thank you all. Matt. -seriously, it's a cool idea. Trust me.

"Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20031202231446...@mb-m16.aol.com... [ quoted text not captured ] I know I am probably a very small minority but I would love to see more werewolves or someting of the nature I miss the old Werewolf game in all its brokeness, I guess the powers that be with all there knowledge could tell me verbatim why this would not work, but I just think a crossover would be cool, Vampires battling Werewolves for territory or what ever, and not just an ally such as the ones we have but oh well, mabe the Allies and equipment could do that, Instead of just having the Renegade Garou, have some werewolf allies with unique names much like we have with some of our current retainers and allies. (ie tasha morgan, tara the hollwo mage, Nephandus, might be a good expansion to get soem of those rare OOP allies back :) Just a thought Errol

On 4 Dec 2003 13:27:37 -0800, mgre...@bcuc.ac.uk (mgreen02) scrawled: >halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote in message news:<20031202231446...@mb-m16.aol.com>... >> LSJ recently posted on the White Wolf forum some very fascinating information >> concerning what happens to VTES After Gehenna.... > >> Feel free to post here, but for real counting, email me directly at >> vte...@white-wolf.com with the subject "V:TES A.G." >> >Cut and paste the following: > > >Dear Scott, > >I think Matt Green's idea for a "Kindred's most Wanted" expansion >rocks and that you should implement it immediately. I want to play >with savage renegade vampires and werewolves and lots of Archons to >hunt them all down. > >Please also give some thought to his ideas on thaumaturgy cards >requiring infernal minions and the 'trophy clan mechanic'. what's the trophy clan mechanic? a new giovanni ally? ;) salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 22:24:31 GMT, "Errol" <immorta...@shaw.ca> scrawled: >an ally such as the ones we have but oh well, mabe the Allies and equipment >could do that, Instead of just having the Renegade Garou, have some werewolf >allies with unique names much like we have with some of our current i'd like to see more unique allies too. especially clan specific ones. >retainers and allies. (ie tasha morgan, tara the hollwo mage, Nephandus, >might be a good expansion to get soem of those rare OOP allies back :) Tara the Hollow One (Mage) would need a _serious_ power-up in a reprinting. So please do, WW, and make her worth the action to get her. :) [ quoted text not captured ]

"Errol" <immorta...@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:<zuOzb.559383$pl3.33428@pd7tw3no>... [ quoted text not captured ] As I was reading this thread, particularly the request for 'by Night' book expansions, I was thinking that the 'Under a Blood Red Moon' book would be SO cool to make into a vampire expansion. Loads of Werewolves, loads of violence, and a lot of asses kicked in Chicago. However, did Scott mean we should look at the game as though Gehenna has hit and the world is practically post-apocalyptic, or are we supposed to ignore that Gehenna thing and carry on as normal? Makes quite a big difference I can tell you. I reckon they should go through the Rage combat cards and make a Violence edition :) With stacks of new combat cards and the ability to gang attack a single vamp (or better still have 2 on 2 (or more) fights.... *drool* With tag team combat cards available). Marty One angry mo-fo.

halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote in message news:<20031202231446...@mb-m16.aol.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] I would love to see : -The Introduction of more infernalists -Dark Thaumarturgy -Advanced Ally -Some Mechanik's for sabbat vampires to create a pack . -2 New guns : Uzi and AK47 -The rest of the Bane Mummies as well as regular Mummies -New Werewolves , especially uniques to prevent abuse. -I think that Kindred most wanted is a FABULOUS idea ! -Huge vampires , more than 11 cap. It can be done by introducing the Inconnu. -Advanced Hesha Rudhaze -More cards agaist weenies or to discourage weenies decks like Aranthebes. -Serpent of Light An ally expansion would add a lot of diversity and flavour to the game :) Mechadick

On 5 Dec 2003 04:07:12 -0800, martin.c...@southbeds.gov.uk (Marty) scrawled: [snip] >> > Any suggestions (that remain in the present time)? [snip] >However, did Scott mean we should look at the game as though Gehenna >has hit and the world is practically post-apocalyptic, or are we >supposed to ignore that Gehenna thing and carry on as normal? Makes >quite a big difference I can tell you. i think he meant 'not Dark Ages, etc'. >I reckon they should go through the Rage combat cards and make a >Violence edition :) With stacks of new combat cards and the ability >to gang attack a single vamp (or better still have 2 on 2 (or more) >fights.... *drool* With tag team combat cards available). fight fight fight fight. [ quoted text not captured ]

"salem" <salem_ch...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:8fe2tv4pcbn91e7ju...@4ax.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Reminds me of Homer Simpson flicking the light off and on when Bart and Lisa were to play hockey against each other fight fight fight But yeah I have also thought of multiple combats we have things like fast reaction and Hidden lurker why not a card like Hunting party from rage, or something similar with a more balanced effect. Rage cards like Disembowel and massive wound were cool. theres also the other side of it cards like Pack defense etc. Errol

[ quoted text not captured ] this of course is fun, but from a wod point of view i think is quite hard to put the ancient and willingly out of the jihad vampires in the eternal struggle: it's a contradiction in terms, isn't it? > -Advanced Hesha Rudhaze > -More cards agaist weenies or to discourage weenies decks like Aranthebes. > -Serpent of Light > > An ally expansion would add a lot of diversity and flavour to the game :) > > Mechadick I like all those ideas, especially the one about the ebony kingdom. also i would like having more adv vampires, especially from group 1 (and maybe better ones;), more equipment, more veicles (i want to use car bombs) more retainers, more havens (so the mechanics about havens could start working full strenght), and maybe more allies of all kind. maybe even the possibility to recruit them without vampires intermediation (if this is the word)(turning for example mages or werewolves influence-able minions or something like that). in the end something to give more flavour to the game good also the idea of dedicating the expansion to the vampires of one city, but only if that city is Pordenone :))) Andrea

salem <salem_ch...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<8fe2tv4pcbn91e7ju...@4ax.com>... > On 5 Dec 2003 04:07:12 -0800, martin.c...@southbeds.gov.uk > (Marty) scrawled: > > [snip] > >> > Any suggestions (that remain in the present time)? > [snip] > >However, did Scott mean we should look at the game as though Gehenna > >has hit and the world is practically post-apocalyptic, or are we > >supposed to ignore that Gehenna thing and carry on as normal? Makes > >quite a big difference I can tell you. > > i think he meant 'not Dark Ages, etc'. yes, but this doesn't answer to the question: after gheenna there will still be clan division? and the sects? we will still have sabbat and camarilla? sound meaningless to me, but abolishing these distinction and structures will leave a lot of free space. maybe too much? LSJ, if i haven't missed some very important particular i think this question is worth an answer can you give it to us or is better after the exit of gheenna? andrea

On 7 Dec 2003 14:37:03 -0800, aea...@yahoo.it (Andrea) scrawled: >I like all those ideas, especially the one about the ebony kingdom. >also i would like having more adv vampires, especially from group 1 >(and maybe better ones;), more equipment, more veicles (i want to use >car bombs) more retainers, more havens (so the mechanics about havens >could start working full strenght), and maybe more allies of all kind. >maybe even the possibility to recruit them without vampires >intermediation (if this is the word)(turning for example mages or >werewolves influence-able minions or something like that). what about more allies that are played as master cards, like Jake Washington? but if they are a bit tougher than jake (ike werewolves), then maybe they could include some sort of 'cannot act this turn' text on it. and if anyone says 'summoning sickness', i'm going to slap them. >good also the idea of dedicating the expansion to the vampires of one >city, but only if that city is Pordenone :))) we over here want an advanced sarrasine, camarilla prince of sydney. [ quoted text not captured ]

salem <salem_ch...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<lan7tvkk368val8nf...@4ax.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] Yes!!!!!!! Another vote for advanced Sarrasine, Camarilla Prince of Sydney! (and give her a decent special while yoú´re at it please!!) No advanced Hesha, he is one of the very few setites that are already worth their salt (or should I say scales?) If not Sarrasine, advanced Kemintiri, the only 10cap that has no special whatsoever unless there are members of one specific clan in play! (which makes her the crappiest 10cap of them all, ever :)

Rebels... Nice idea Halycon! How about some actual Autarkis (non-sect vampires of sect clans <Ventrue-Cam, Lasombra-Sab>)? How about a (Set-forbid) set like Magic did with Unglued? Maybe a card like "WW vs Sony" or "A. Rice vs WW"? Clan-stereotype cards "Setite Lisp", "Lasombra back-stabber", "Pussy Toreador"? A set based off vamps from the Camarilla LARP? Might get more players from the LARP over, now that it's probably going to go belly-up. Or even cards based on what happened over there (Ventrue up the flag pole!!! I can provide a picture for this) The Cities by Night sets, I sortta like, but I can't see it from a Canon point of view. Wait, I take that back. It would be interesting to have Pre-con decks based around the vamps that a particular Methusalah controls (although, for some reason, Meths like Christopher Haughton and Helena are getting printed) How bout a 'The Honoured Dead' set. Vamps like Logan of Chicago come out to play. Sortta would be funny to see Logan wiped out by a Cry Wolf card. Sets based off 'Blood Magic' and 'Archons and Templars', 'Most Wanted (although this one already has Keminitri and Dylan, what about that Samedi kid, or that warped dual-creatured Gangrel', 'Children of the Night. And my personal favourite, "Bow down before me! or how I learned to stop worrying and began to Love Sutekh". Hard to find that last one, but worth the trouble. But as both Salem and David say, more advanced vamps. If not to make it look like the story continues, but to correct mistakes such as the wimpy Followers, when we know they're gonna live past Gehenna and control the Darkness that stands before us. And as for the Allies and Equipment set. I actually do like this and dislike this on many levels. Pros, c'mon, I'm tired of just having a bastard sword, when we know Katana's are all the rage with kindred. Actual Allies would be great. C'mon, who wouldn't want Howard Stern in their WKRC? How about named Political Allies, or we can cheese the game even further (King Albrecht, 5 life 5 hand damage, 3 bleed, Tap King Albrecht to burn a vampire that played/tried to play Protect Thine Own). Or named Demons from the first ST guide to the Sabbat. Or that Succubus from Chicago by Night. And no glossing over her goodies!!! Jamie The Seppo Can I get a "Hail Set!"? moon...@hotkey.net.au Ventrue up the flagpole (Brujah, !Brujah and/or Gangrel action card. Enter combat with a titled Ventrue. If the Ventrue receives more then 3 points of succesful damage or goes to torpor, put this card on the acting vampire, and it gains the votes (not title) of the Ventrue, and the acting vampires controller cannot be bled by titled vampires til the end of it's next untap phase. If this action is successful, tap the Ventrue, and it does not untap as normal during it's next untap phase. "Flagpole! hmph! --LaCroix, Toreador Justicar [ quoted text not captured ]

On 8 Dec 2003 17:10:57 -0800, moon...@useoz.com (Jamie The Seppo) scrawled: >Or that Succubus from Chicago by Night. And no glossing over her >goodies!!! i beleive the correct expression is 'wams'. ;) [ quoted text not captured ]

> How about a (Set-forbid) set like Magic did with Unglued? We have anarchs already. Our problem isn't that we don't have lots of "flavor" already, but rather do we enjoy that "flavor". Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr XZealot Archon of the Swamp

> How about a (Set-forbid) set like Magic did with Unglued? We have anarchs already. Our problem isn't that we don't have lots of [ quoted text not captured ]

moon...@useoz.com (Jamie The Seppo) wrote in message news:<1fb48054.03120...@posting.google.com>... > Rebels... Nice idea Halycon! How about some actual Autarkis (non-sect > vampires of sect clans <Ventrue-Cam, Lasombra-Sab>)? > > How about a (Set-forbid) set like Magic did with Unglued? If you want a "flavor" set of dubious strategic value, then we already have anarchs. We are not lacking in "flavor", but whether or not you enjoy "flavor" is a subjective call. [ quoted text not captured ]

XZealot wrote: > moon...@useoz.com (Jamie The Seppo) wrote in message news:<1fb48054.03120...@posting.google.com>... >>How about a (Set-forbid) set like Magic did with Unglued? > > If you want a "flavor" set of dubious strategic value, then we already > have anarchs. We are not lacking in "flavor", but whether or not you > enjoy "flavor" is a subjective call. You can say that again. :-) ... and we already have Bloodlines (A FSoDSV). And Final Nights. And Sabbat War. And Sabbat. And Ancient Hearts. And Dark Sovereigns. Flavor. Bah. Humbug. You'll note, of course, that you've derailed Jamie The Seppo's suggestion into something completely different for your own soap box. Unglued : Magic :/: Anarchs : Vampire Your soap box is more like: "We already have a Fallen Empires: Anarchs", if my MtG memory serves. Rants are more interesting when given from a solid foundation. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Maybe its too much like M:tG but one thing I did like with Magic was that some sets told a story so that you would have characters, events, equipment and locations from that story. That might be a nice idea. ------------------------- Cambridge by Night. http://www.geocities.com/eryx_uk/Cambridge_by_night.html

>You'll note, of course, that you've derailed Jamie The Seppo's >suggestion into something completely different for your own >soap box. > >Unglued : Magic :/: Anarchs : Vampire > >Your soap box is more like: "We already have a Fallen Empires: Anarchs", >if my MtG memory serves. Rants are more interesting when given from >a solid foundation. I don't get to rant often enough about how bad Unglued was. CCG parodies are easy. Think Yu-Gi-Oh!, Dungeon Dice Monsters. Magic has had at least two serious parody attempts and both sucked. Have to involve a bit of wit into parody; the ideal is to not be sure whether design was serious or not. The only useful thing Unglued did for Magic was introduce those creature token cards. Maybe, someday, I'll get around to following the instructions and sending off what I want to see to LSJ directly. To avoid endless procrastination on offering a thought I've had for quite some time, basically what I'd like to see are new disciplines and new clans first, then help for sucky disciplines and sucky clans. I figure the latter is more likely, but it can't hurt to mention the former.

> >You'll note, of course, that you've derailed Jamie The Seppo's > >suggestion into something completely different for your own > >soap box. > > > >Unglued : Magic :/: Anarchs : Vampire > > > >Your soap box is more like: "We already have a Fallen Empires: Anarchs", > >if my MtG memory serves. Rants are more interesting when given from > >a solid foundation. hehe, ya got dissed by LSJ, teehee! > I don't get to rant often enough about how bad Unglued was. CCG parodies are > easy. Think Yu-Gi-Oh!, Dungeon Dice Monsters. Magic has had at least two > serious parody attempts and both sucked. Have to involve a bit of wit into > parody; the ideal is to not be sure whether design was serious or not. The > only useful thing Unglued did for Magic was introduce those creature token > cards. But are there any White Wolf paradoies? I've yet to see anything like it, well, aside from a webcartoon on WW's standings on lawsuits, and several satirical songs that we made up during LARPS (Let's do the Time Freeze again! and Star Vamping are my fav's). This genre gets picked on, and it's players mocked, but the game itself has yet to see a funnier side (other then Chapter XXII of Werewolf in the Malk CB). Our biggest laugh of this game comes from looking at editorial mistakes. The closest thing we can come to it is Black Dog HOL books, but I actually loved the series. Bring Black Dog to the CCG! > Maybe, someday, I'll get around to following the instructions and sending off > what I want to see to LSJ directly. To avoid endless procrastination on > offering a thought I've had for quite some time, basically what I'd like to see > are new disciplines and new clans first, then help for sucky disciplines and > sucky clans. I figure the latter is more likely, but it can't hurt to mention > the former. More likely? Try the only thing. Where are they gonna pull more clans and disciplines out? Have you read any of the Canon, cause they've gone through (and brought back to life a few!) all the Clans and Bloodlines.

What about Cults and Coteries? Groups of secret societies, their members, some of their 'stuff' (locations, resources, , retainers/allies, etc). With neat interacting negligable specials on members of the societies. eg: Jim and Ben are both in some little cult called Eat Old vampires, or something. Their card names might be Jim, initiate of Eat Old Vampires. Ben, Leader of Eat Old Vampires. (and you could introduce some group 1 vampires of the Cold Dawn, who have specials if Dre is in play or does stuff) Ben could have a special: If Jim diablerises an older vampire, Ben gains a blood. Like we have now with Edith and Enid, but more widespread. Maybe add Hank and Bubba to the Eat Old vampires cult. Jim's special: If Hank puts an older vampire into torpor in combat, Jim untaps. Hank's special: If Bubba blocks an older vampire, Hank may tap to enter combat with the acting vampire after combat (if any) if you do not control the acting vampire. Bubba's special: Ben may move a blood to Bubba during any methuselah's untap phase. their clans could be all over the place, but with a thread of shared disciplines through them (perhaps pair-wise contiguous, or something). You could have a master card, Where Tubby Lives. put it in play, once during your turn, one of Ben, Jim, Hank, or Bubba that you control may enter combat with an older vampire controlled my another methuselah as a D action. moving away from the Eat Old Vampires cult, you could have other useful culty stuff. The Cult of Stuff Unique Master. Put this card in play (very important text, designers take note!). During your untap phase you may put a Stuff counter on a minion you control. Tap to allow a minion you control with a Stuff counter to put a Stuff counter on a minion controlled by another methuselah as a D action. A minion with a stuff counter may not block a minion with a stuf counter. Burn this card and all stuff counters when the oldest ready vampire with a Stuff counter is burned or goes to torpor. right, so now i'm laying out text when i only wanted to lay out ideas. trying to get back to the ideas level: Cults that you can spread among other methuselahs minions, undermining their control (like above!), and groups of vampires who explicitly synergise well together, but in relatively minor ways. [ quoted text not captured ]

On 9 Dec 2003 16:17:29 -0800, moon...@useoz.com (Jamie The Seppo) scrawled: >But are there any White Wolf paradoies? I once read a Q n A parody thing of white wolf somewhere on the net. the only one i can remember is: Q. What's the difference between a roleplaying game and a storytelling game? A. A colon (:) in the title. [ quoted text not captured ]

cur...@aol.commetal (Curevei) wrote in message news:<20031209144322...@mb-m28.aol.com>... > >You'll note, of course, that you've derailed Jamie The Seppo's > >suggestion into something completely different for your own > >soap box. > > > >Unglued : Magic :/: Anarchs : Vampire > > > >Your soap box is more like: "We already have a Fallen Empires: Anarchs", > >if my MtG memory serves. Rants are more interesting when given from > >a solid foundation. > I'd like to point out to you that Magic's Fallen Empire is not as bad an expansion as Anarchs is, it has lots of good card, though most are common.

cur...@aol.commetal (Curevei) wrote in message news:<20031209144322...@mb-m28.aol.com>... > >You'll note, of course, that you've derailed Jamie The Seppo's > >suggestion into something completely different for your own > >soap box. > > > >Unglued : Magic :/: Anarchs : Vampire > > > >Your soap box is more like: "We already have a Fallen Empires: Anarchs", > >if my MtG memory serves. Rants are more interesting when given from > >a solid foundation. > I'd like to point out to you that Magic's Fallen Empire is not as bad an expansion as Anarchs is, it has lots of good cards, though most are common.

> But are there any White Wolf paradoies? I've yet to see anything like > it, well, aside from a webcartoon on WW's standings on lawsuits, and > several satirical songs that we made up during LARPS (Let's do the > Time Freeze again! and Star Vamping are my fav's). > This genre gets picked on, and it's players mocked, but the game > itself has yet to see a funnier side (other then Chapter XXII of > Werewolf in the Malk CB). Maybe its because the best parody of WW (and the whole gaming industry at large) was in that Pentex book (I think it's Subsidiaries): the Black Dog chapter explaining how it relates to Pentex and what it does to push further the Wyrm agenda. That bit is complete, there's nothing to add to it. Pure humor gem ;) > Our biggest laugh of this game comes from > looking at editorial mistakes. The closest thing we can come to it is > Black Dog HOL books, but I actually loved the series. Bring Black Dog > to the CCG! Taking the humor part aside, how would they would do this? A Black Dog expansion with black spiral dancers/spectres/demons/infernalism-only cards? ... maybe it's not a bad idea.

the_capuchin wrote: >>But are there any White Wolf paradoies? I've yet to see anything like > Maybe its because the best parody of WW (and the whole gaming industry > at large) was in that Pentex book (I think it's Subsidiaries): the > Black Dog chapter explaining how it relates to Pentex and what it does > to push further the Wyrm agenda. That bit is complete, there's nothing > to add to it. Pure humor gem ;) Ah, yes. For a taste (if you don't have the book), see http://www.mants-lair.org.uk/Wyrm/black_dog.htm [ quoted text not captured ]

> how about a inconnu expansion,that would really cool for vtes > > mike Totally agreed. This would be a very cool "small" expansion (à la Black Hand / Anarchs), with new (BIG !) vampires, special mechanics etc. With a different name, like Conspiracis of Darkness, it could also include some allies societies (Society of Leopold, Technocracy, Orphic circle... ;) > > An expansion centered around allies and equipment (boys and their toys). > > Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom <City> by Night - e.g., Paris by Night or > Berlin > > by Night. > > ah ah. Finally, we will see loads of french vampires with baguettes and > berets. And all the possible variations of Kamel's face (Kamel drunk, Kamel > sober and dealing to get his VP, Kamel breaking a deal). And don't forget > the frogs :) MEGA-LOL !! I also have a picture of Dancing Kamel... Seriously, though : regional expansions would be nice, although I'm not sure how they could be handled ; what would they bring besides "just" new vampires and new cards ? I mean, although I'm far from a fan of Anarch, or even Black Hand mechanics, and although I love Bloodlines the special mechanics are mostly far from perfect, the possibility of having new, unique gaming opportunities is in itself interesting, as it renews the game. If the struggle must be centered around a city, then for me this should change the game, and having tried it in league format maybe there should be a new way of winning by possessing a certain number of city locations (that you could place on a map ?), or getting the most important titles in the city : this I would really like, although of course it would mean that the players agree on playing this variant in the first place ; but then, it could work, and would IMHO bring a refreshing variation to the game. > > An expansion centered around allies and equipment (boys and their toys). > > Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom The RPG expansion looks great, but I'm not sure it would fit VTES well... And there are no Giovanni !!! ;-) There is a real need for boosting up the indies ; but then, if this has to be a Group 4 expansion, I won't buy it, just trade some good cards in (not being compatible with the quasi totality of existing indies looks like a major obstacle to me). I don't think there should be (yet) a Bloodlines 2, although I'd like to see a few more Bloodlines cards here and there (in a new "Misfits" expansion, which could cover the "rebels" someone talked about, plus some indies, plus Kindred Most Wanted or what-have-you ?)... And of course, the Allies thing I'm a big fan of : it could go on and on and on without new grouping and without shifting game balance between groups (or allowing for too many vampires with the same out-of-clan disciplines) : Garous, Mages, Wraiths / Orpheus, Hunters, played as main characters and not just mere allies (as the Gargoyles...), but still included in the vampire setting (and balanced for it, contrarily to the RGP. Garous would of course be great fighters, but would have to be able to kick winnies out but have trouble with elder vampires (first it would fit the background, second it couldn't be bad for the game...) ; Mages would offer many fearsome possibilities, although they would need some kind of weakness (in life counters or what damage does to them compared to vampires, maybe ?) ; and of course Necromancy would be what wraiths fear the most (like Dominate for the rest of "us"). Hunters I don't know much but I guess it could be intersting, and hopefully not just for the fight (although I certainly don't see them as big bleeders). Vampires would remain the main voters, though, maybe the only ones with that possibility : their main advantage upon all the rest, from what I know, is their thorough control of the mortal world ! So my main wishes would be : 1) Cities with new district mechanics) 2) Allies 3) Inconnu 4) Dark Ages, although not mentionned above 5) Rebels 6) Ebony Kingdom And of course, we still have the possibility of considering the game after Ravnos (not dead of course, it's all an illusion...) decides that the whole universe becomes a paper (RPG and card) game : new characters would be "Correct" LSJ, "Flaming" Derek, Jeff "I made all the decks before you" Thompson, etc. ;) Or, in french version : "Jumping" Reyda, "I didn't rape your sister (yet)" Nagaraja, "Play as I want or don't play" Kamel, "Insane necromancer" Orpheus, François "Funniest Poster Ever" Gombault, Stéphane "I'm the best but don't say it too loud" Lavrut, etc... ;)) We DON'T want to see that, do we ? For the rest, I was quite serious... Orpheus

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3FD71BC1...@white-wolf.com>... > the_capuchin wrote: > >>But are there any White Wolf paradoies? I've yet to see anything like > > > Maybe its because the best parody of WW (and the whole gaming industry > > at large) was in that Pentex book (I think it's Subsidiaries): the > > Black Dog chapter explaining how it relates to Pentex and what it does > > to push further the Wyrm agenda. That bit is complete, there's nothing > > to add to it. Pure humor gem ;) > > Ah, yes. > > For a taste (if you don't have the book), see > http://www.mants-lair.org.uk/Wyrm/black_dog.htm Here are some other suggestions : -More Camarilla Assamites -A new equipement : Police Shield Cost : 2 Pool Prevent 1 dammage at close range once per combat Prevent 2 dammage at long range once per combat You can hit at +1 Strenght with police shield . Discard the shield after combat if you choose to do so. -More cards agaist weenies or to discourage weenies. Suggestion Card : Feeding on the Weak +1 Stealth Action Require a vampire with a capacity above 7 dom : Choose up to 2 vampires with a capacity below 4 controlled by the same methuselah Steal 2 blood from each of those vampires . DOM : Choose up to 3 vampires . -What would be great with allies would be allies that you could influence but only if you have a ready vampire from the clan that this ally require to put him in play . -More vehicules so i can use even more my favorite ally : Repo Man -A vampire named (for example) Joe the Weaponshith or Joe the Weapon Expert with this ability : Joe as a D action that cost 2 blood put a tuning counter on a weapon. A weapon inflict +1 dammage for every tuning counter it have on it. -Much Needed reprint of Spiritual intervention -A Stake-Gun but what could be super cool with it is that you need regular Stakes/Wooden Stakes to use it . Example : STAKE-GUN Weapon - Gun Cost : 3 Pool To use the Stake-Gun in combat , you must put from your hand 1 Stake on it before range. The Stake-Gun can never have more than 3 Stake on it. 3R Dammage If the strike doesnt inflict successful dammage , the stake goes in your discard pile. Thanks , Martin Laganière

> A set based off vamps from the Camarilla LARP? Might get more > players from the LARP over, now that it's probably going to go > belly-up. Or even cards based on what happened over there (Ventrue up > the flag pole!!! I can provide a picture for this) Hey, I think I was at that game... ICC Houston, right? I like the idea, since they've also been trying to move the Camarilla LARP closer to Canon as well. But that chronicle had a tendency to fly far, far away from canon from time to time. Like when the Gangrel married a Black Fury, and they gave birth to an Athro Bunyip. *grumbles* Fanboy

> But are there any White Wolf paradoies? Yes. The Camarilla LARP. > This genre gets picked on, and it's players mocked, but the game > itself has yet to see a funnier side (other then Chapter XXII of > Werewolf in the Malk CB). What about "Tremere and their Wands" in the Tremere CB? Best sidebar ever to appear in WW. >Our biggest laugh of this game comes from looking at editorial mistakes. Was it the Malk clanbook that actually had a page XX? > More likely? Try the only thing. Where are they gonna pull more > clans and disciplines out? Have you read any of the Canon, cause > they've gone through (and brought back to life a few!) all the Clans > and Bloodlines. Laibon haven't been covered yet, and IIRC from Kindred of the Ebon Kingdom, they still exist in the modern WoD. The Lamia and Lhiannon could stand some coverage, too. Fanboy