17 brave methusulas showed up to the Flag on Sunday... so for the sake
of numbers I joined in (something I was hoping I wouldn't have to do -
oh dear!). It was officially the "Day of the Novelty Deck", since
despite me offering a prize for Biggest Bleed, Most Weapons, Anyone
Playing an Up Yours, and Best Combo, people were only interested in
the "Best combo" prize. Go figure...
Let's look at the culprits:
Simon Croome played Tzimisce. Seemed the standard block and bash
affair, using a lot of Living Manses for bonus bleed and had an awful
lot of Horrid Forms... A good deck, doing quite well by getting a
Final place with 4VP and 1 Table Win.
Jackie Eves played a Gargoyle deck - Clan Impersonation to Tremere /
!Tremere, tool with Stone Dogs, and... hit for one. I think she put
soo many "new toys" in the deck, she forgot the combat cards. It
didn't do too well when I saw it play.
Lamp played Setites. A weenie-ish sneaky bleed affair. I think he
added too many masters though, and didn't do too well in the game I
saw him in.
Andy Brown played Setites. No suprise. A bad draw saw him go home with
his tail between his legs.
Tony Carew played Assamites. No surprise. This time with 30% added
fortitude! And Auspex! However, it also seemed to have 50% less rush,
so he was left twiddling his thumbs quite a bit...
James Lewis played a Ventrue vote deck... featuring Arika. No
surprise. A scary looking deck, it didn't seem to get too far before
having it's face pushed in by the very scared prey. James also had to
leave early - a shame.
Paul Sheppard played Gangrel aggropoke. Not a very sophisticated deck
(rush, freak drive, bleed), but an alarming number of rares (10 Freak
Drives at Least! Lots of Tier of Souls and Dog Packs). However, it did
score a couple of points (from memory).
Ian Turner played Giovanni bruise / bleed. A solid deck, marred only
by a few bad moves.
Anthony Lown played Brujah Rush (with some bleed). At one stage, it
was looking like the Night of the Burning Wrath, as Anthony's strike
of choice came out (I shudder to think what he could achieve if he had
many Disarms!). A solid performace getting 4 VP and one table win.
Jon Cooper reprised his Brujah Debate deck, to some effect. This deck,
a finalist at the UK Nationals last year, just didn't cut it this time
around. Jon still scored OK, but for someone rated so highly not to
get a place in the finals was a big shame.
Matt Green played his fabled "Rough night at the Palle Grande" deck -
!Toreadors with obf doing (wait for it) sneak bleeds. A good deck, in
the hands of the master! Got into the Final with 5 VP and 1 Table Win.
Grant Flynn played a Tremere / !Tremere bleed deck. To his credit, he
didn't run off crying when confronted with Matt Green, but he didn't
score that well on the day.
Adrian Deacon played an impressive looking Enticement deck - with
Sargon and Jazz Wentworth. The Alpha plan was for Sargon to get a
Blood Doll and hunt (gaining the edge) and one of many weenie setites
just drop an Enticement. Jazz could also get the edge for fun and
profit. A great combo, it looked too nasty for most and got creamed by
rush, changing seating orders, and (his worst nightmare) Form of
Corruptions.
Adam Payn played a truly ballsy Saubri Spirit Marionette deck. Most
games, all 3 came out (even at the extra cost!) and SM-ed the massses.
Adam would Marionette a vampire of his preys (either one with
Fortutude, or he would add skillcards), and each case the Heidleburg
Castle was duly tapped to move blood and toys to Adams own vampires
(easy bloodgen). The SM-ed vampire would then bleed with Daring the
Dawn (using dominate as well!) to do nasty damage all round! Adam
paked quite a few Anaesthetic Touch (THE scariest anti combat card...
EVER) and fortitude prevention. A VERY nice deck, but got screwed by
Dominate and my deck... see below.
Martin Cubberley played his well oiled (and oily!) Mind Rape with
Nephertit deck. Very Similar to Adams, except using Mind Rape and not
being nearly as clever in anticombat. However, the speed and
flexiblity of Setites using Temptation AND Mind Rapes PLUS lots of
Stealth Bleeds with Dom meant Martin effortlessly made the final with
11 VPS and 2 Table Wins.
Pierre Rebstock played his Tzimisce Bloodform / Weather Control deck.
For the uninitiated, this comprises of... 1) Sashsa Vykos. 2) Weather
Contols (about 30-45!!!) 3) Bloddforms (about 10). Sahsa tools with a
Pulse of the Canaille and bleeds (usually to be blocked). X weather
controls later (where X is the blocking vampires capacity +1) Sasha
plays a Bloodform. Simple. Effective. Easily into the final with 6VPs
and a Table Win.
Mike Nudd played a Nossie Big Boy deck. To be fair, I didn't see it in
action, but I did hear that it involved Cammie Segregations, Protect
Thine Owns, Harrod, Sheldon, and ToGP. Mike Narrowly missed the final
(by the toss of a coin) so the more successful tosser (Simon Croome -
who called Heads to Mikes Tails) went through. Both scored 4 VP, equal
TPs and 1 Table Win each! Go figure...
Finally Me. Well, my effort was purely based around that 8 cap Trujah
and had lots of Setites-with-votes. Largely, it Rewound Time. A lot.
And had Suddens and DI's as back up. Going forward, it had stealth
bleed, stealth votes (mainly Free States Rants), Forms of Corruptions,
and Temptations. I really got to like it (2nd time I'd played it!) and
squeezed into the Final with 5.5VPs and 1 Table Win. I'll probably
post it tommorrow.
The final went (in starting order)...
David Hammond (5.5VP)
Pierre Rebstock (6VP)
Simon Croome (4VP - Lucky Coin Tosser)
Martin Cubberley (11VP!!!!!!!)
Matt Green (5VP)
Instantly, I was screwed - no Synesios in my opening crypt (in fact no
voters at all!), a handful of Rewind Times, and 2 Free States Rants.
Matt on the other hand hauled out Dan Murdoch in turn 1, another 4 cap
in turn 2, and the !Toreador Cardinal by turn 4. Arse.
I was little more than a speedbump for Matt (not helped by Simon
Croome deflecting a 3 point bleed to me when I was on 4 pool... DOH!)
and Matt fared only maginally better against Martin. However, in his
dying move he did manage to screw Martin up... by playing an Archon
Investigation on Nephertiti's 5 point bleed (when Matt had 5 pool!).
This in effect turned the game.
Simon was far too scared to block anything of Pierre's (having seen
the deck play before), so he tried to bleed Martin out. Martin ended
up low on pool with all but 2 vampires in torpor. Simon eventually got
bled out by Sasha Vykos and a few weenies.
With just Martin and Pierre left, and Pierre in better shape, the game
soon finished. Even a Temptation on Shasha couldn't stop Pierre since
it came 4 turns too late. Pierre ousted Martin to win a little under
90 minutes after the start of the final.
So, a good day for the Novelty Deck!
Here are the (pathetic) results of the "side events"
Anyone playing an Up Yours! ? - Not a chance. Cowards!
Most Weapons - 2 (pathetic!) by Matt Green (the two weapons being a
Deer Rifle - the patented Matt Green Combat Defence Mechanism
"Guaranteed to let you survive combat*" - and a Bomb (which sent off
somewhere in Germany... near Heidleburg, I believe).
Biggest Bleed - 5 (honestly!!!!) by Adam Payn (not bad for a Salubri)
Most Interesting Combo... well, this is a hotly contested prize.
Adrian Deacon's deck was a very good idea, but a bit fragile - the
combo of Sargon and Enticement resulting in a 2-3 point pool loss.
However, Adam Payn's Salubri deck blew me away with it's brutality -
at the end of the action, Adam's vamps had lots of blood, and the
other vamp had bled it's own controller and gone to torpor. VERY nice.
So Adam wins.
Next tourney is on the 24th Feb.
This is the storytelling tourney, so remember, only single clans
allowed (or at least 75% vamps of one clan in the deck). There are no
restrictions on what clan you can play, though!
All the best
David Hammond
That guy in Watford
* Not a Guarantee
dave...@hotmail.com (hamdamcwa) wrote in message news:<9e10847c.02012...@posting.google.com>...
<snip>
>
> Martin Cubberley played his well oiled (and oily!) Mind Rape with
> Nephertit deck. Very Similar to Adams, except using Mind Rape and not
> being nearly as clever in anticombat. However, the speed and
> flexiblity of Setites using Temptation AND Mind Rapes PLUS lots of
> Stealth Bleeds with Dom meant Martin effortlessly made the final with
> 11 VPS and 2 Table Wins.
That's 11 VPs and 3 (!) Table Wins thanks Dave. Man, you're always
raining on my parade.....
Thanks goes out to Matt Green for giving me the idea for the deck in
the first place.
Thanks are retracted from Matt Green for blowing up my Heidleburg
Castle and burning Nefertiti with and Archon Investigation. Damn you
:)
Martin
"hamdamcwa" <dave...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9e10847c.02012...@posting.google.com...
> Pierre Rebstock played his Tzimisce Bloodform / Weather Control deck.
> For the uninitiated, this comprises of... 1) Sashsa Vykos. 2) Weather
> Contols (about 30-45!!!) 3) Bloddforms (about 10). Sahsa tools with a
> Pulse of the Canaille and bleeds (usually to be blocked). X weather
> controls later (where X is the blocking vampires capacity +1) Sasha
> plays a Bloodform. Simple. Effective. Easily into the final with 6VPs
> and a Table Win.
*grins*...been saying i should take the deck to a tournament for a long
time...finally did it :) One victory for the kolduns! Below is the deck
for the Tournament Winning Decks Archive :) *pride, pride*
Name: Blessing of Kupala
Creator: TPOTH Koldun (aka Pierre aka Dirty Frenchman)
Crypt:
2 Caliban (ANI AUS VIC, Tzimisce, 6)
2 Corine Marcón (ani AUS VIC, Tzimisce, 6)
1 Heinrick Schlempt (tha, Tremere Antitribu, 2)
2 Lolita Houston (aus VIC, Tzimisce, 4)
1 Magdelena Schaefer (THA, Caitiff, 2)
4 Sascha Vykos (ani AUS dom THA VIC, Tzimisce, 8, Priscus)
Library: (90 cards)
Master (13 cards)
3 Blood Doll
4 Minion Tap
6 Thaumaturgy
Action (12 cards)
4 Pulse of the Canaille
2 Revelations
2 Rutor's Hand
4 Nose of the Hound
Reaction (8 cards)
4 Read the Winds
4 Telepathic Misdirection
Combat (53 cards)
12 Bloodform
6 Taste of Vie
30 Weather Control
3 Telepathic Tracking
2 Aura Reading
Equipment (4 cards)
2 Living Manse
2 Leather Jacket
Ok, it's not pretty but it does the job and the fear factor is not to be
underestimated either. More often than not your prey will take the 3-4
bleed rather than loosing a minion...only a handful of decks can handle
multiple Weather Controls. In addition they will wait until there is no
other choice to block you, so they'll have used their minions, removed
some blood, did a few actions/combats, hence facilitating my job, having
to waste less Weather Controls to take them down...I rarely had to take
on full minions, usually 3-4 Weather Controls were more than
enough...unless i was fishing for that elusive Bloodform :) Never
regretted having Rutor's Hand, this card rocks! pay the full cost of RH
and PotC and then rush somebody for a refill. Cards have a great synergy
with one another and this merits further investigation and tweaking.
Although i think winning on Sunday was some kind of fluke, I seriously
believe that this deck has some tournament potential. More on this later
:)
> With just Martin and Pierre left, and Pierre in better shape, the game
> soon finished. Even a Temptation on Shasha couldn't stop Pierre since
> it came 4 turns too late. Pierre ousted Martin to win a little under
> 90 minutes after the start of the final.
Actually it was much closer than that, Martin was ready to take over
Sascha and bleed me with a Mind Rape/Conditioning when i finally ousted
him...gotta love having Dominate! Our dear priscus was tempted and must
have cost me at least 10 pool as i couldn't afford to block and fry
her/him/it being tooled up with the Pulse and all...He did offer to
concede at some point, but strangely enough i managed to convince him to
keep on playing...and nearly lost the game! Close call :)
TPOTH Koldun
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
And here's my "cute" effort:
Deck Name: Truely Scrumptions
Created By: David Hammond
Description: A deck that focuses on Synesios. And Rewind Time
Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 20, Max: 32, Avg: 7.00)
----------------------------------------------
3 Synesios obf POT PRE ser TEM 8, True Brujah, 2 votes
3 Kephamos dom obf pre SER 8, Followers of Set, 2 votes
2 Amisa OBF pre pro SER 8, Followers of Set, 2 votes
1 Hesha Ruhadze ani obf pre SER 6, Followers of Set
2 Count Ormonde dom OBF pre ser 5, Followers of Set
1 Nepata obf pre ser 4, Followers of Set
Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (12 cards)
3 Blood Doll
1 Direct Intervention
1 Dominate
1 Khobar Towers, Al-Khubar
1 Legendary Vampire
1 London Evening Star, Tabloid Newspaper
2 Minion Tap
2 Sudden Reversal
Action (11 cards)
2 Clotho's Gift
3 Form of Corruption
3 Legal Manipulations
3 Temptation
Action Modifier (26 cards)
1 Awe
4 Bewitching Oration
2 Bribes
3 Cloak the Gathering
2 Cryptic Rider
4 Domain of Evernight
3 Forgotten Labyrinth
3 Lost in Crowds
4 Voter Captivation
Political Action (11 cards)
2 Disputed Territory
5 Free States Rant
3 Kine Resources Contested
1 Political Stranglehold
Reaction (14 cards)
4 Deflection
6 Rewind Time
4 Wake with Evening's Freshness
Combat (12 cards)
1 Catatonic Fear
4 Fake Out
7 Majesty
Equipment (1 cards)
1 Changeling Skin Mask
Combo (3 cards)
3 Swallowed by the Night
Basically, Rewind TIme is AWESOMELY POWERFULL in enough quantities. It is a
Rush defense ("Bums Rush? NO!"), it is a Vote defense ("KRC?" NO!").
6 probably isn't enough, but it's all I could get for the day. Suddens and a DI
helped pad it out. Of course the trick is to get Synesios out quickly and call
votes. Free States Rants are useful, since they can be "sold" around the table.
Disputed Territorys are also key (Target: Heidleburg!, or Ventrue Headquarters,
at a push, hunting grounds). Voter Caps are fairly critical to keeping Synesois
healthy for those Rewind Times. Domain of Evernight is a bonus! But since it is
also stealth, it is very useful for the crypt.
I only ended up using the Clotho's Gift at inferior all day! Funny that. And I
never used a Cryptic Rider either.
I would like more Awe in there (all of mine were in other decks, and I didn't
have the time ot find them), and the combat defence can be dicey (I got Dog
Packed all over the show at one point). Other than that, I was pleased with it.
DH
Well, hell, if everyone else is gonna do it, then I'll do it too :)
Here's my deck, it's not 90 cards as I tried to keep it tight so I
always draw what I need. I doubt there's too much I'd change, I
*might* take out Qufur for another Kephamos (I found in the final that
the deck REALLY suffers when you don't have any Dominate on the
table), but as for the library, the only question mark lies over the 5
Ecstasy, which I found really useful on the day and am glad I left
them in.
Playing this deck I guess it's about choosing your targets wisely. I
would normally suggest you put the Temptations on your Predator (once
you oust your prey, you'd loose the Temptations if you put them on
their guys) but the Mind Rapes can go anywhere.
And remember, you're the Setites, sleaze IS your middle name :)
Martin
Deck Name: And you thought they were dirty before...
Created By: Me, with a little help from Mr Green
Description: Corrupt as many vampires as possible - use Mind Rapes and
Temptations to steal minions, and once you have them, move all their
blood to your other vampires with Heidleburg Castle. Great when
combined with a Minion Tap.
Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 19, Max: 39, Avg: 7.33)
----------------------------------------------
2 Count Ormonde dom OBF pre ser 5, Followers of Set
1 Dedefra nec obf SER 5, Followers of Set
1 Hesha Ruhadze ani obf pre SER 6, Followers of Set
1 Kephamos dom obf pre SER 8, Followers of Set, 2
votes
2 Khay'tall aus DOM OBF PRE SER 9, Followers of Set
3 Nefertiti cel DOM OBF pot PRE SER 10, Followers of Set
1 Nepata obf pre ser 4, Followers of Set
1 Qufur am-Heru cel OBF PRE SER tha 7, Followers of Set
Library: (85 cards)
-------------------
Master (17 cards)
2 Dominate
1 Dreams of the Sphinx
3 Heidelberg Castle, Germany
1 Khobar Towers, Al-Khubar
7 Minion Tap
2 Opium Den
1 Sudden Reversal
Minion (68 cards)
2 Catatonic Fear
5 Cloak the Gathering
3 Conditioning
5 Deflection
5 Ecstasy
2 Elder Impersonation
3 Forgotten Labyrinth
2 Form of Corruption
3 Legal Manipulations
4 Lost in Crowds
6 Majesty
5 Mind Rape
5 Obedience
2 Social Charm
3 Swallowed by the Night
7 Temptation
6 Wake with Evening's Freshness
Martin
'The best bang since the big one'
In message <a1d15b7.02013...@posting.google.com>, Marty
<martin.c...@southbeds.gov.uk> writes:
>Here's my deck, it's not 90 cards as I tried to keep it tight so I
>always draw what I need. I doubt there's too much I'd change, I
>*might* take out Qufur for another Kephamos (I found in the final that
>the deck REALLY suffers when you don't have any Dominate on the
>table), but as for the library, the only question mark lies over the 5
>Ecstasy, which I found really useful on the day and am glad I left
>them in.
Just looking around, there are a couple of interesting options.
Makarios, the Seducer, claims PRE AUS SER dom +1 bleed at 8 capacity,
though a Toreador. Yeah, you lose the Obfuscate.
Kephamos is 8 capacity, SER dom obf pre, 2 votes, so you could always
consider Ian Forestal to be about equal DOM obf pre ser.
Avoids the contesting problems, and your only real losses would be
Golconda Towers and Opium Den, I guess.
*And* you get the satisfaction of infecting others with sleaze.
--
James Coupe "Never give in to them," she whispered. "No matter what
PGP 0x5D623D5D EB they do or how important you feel it is to get their accep-
D690ECD7A1FB457CA21 tance. Never kill part of yourself for them. Because other
3D7E668C3695D623D5D people will notice that part is missing before you do."
>And remember, you're the Setites, sleaze IS your middle name :)
I truly resent that. You've got the children of the Dark God all
wrong, Martin. ;)
* * * * * * *
smenkhkapep, whisperer of secrets
Serpent Prince of Manila
Now the serpent was the most cunning of all the animals that the Lord
God had made. The serpent asked the woman, "Did God really tell you
not to eat from any of the trees in the garden?"
Gen 3, 1
Smenkhkapep wrote:
>
> >And remember, you're the Setites, sleaze IS your middle name :)
>
> I truly resent that. You've got the children of the Dark God all
> wrong, Martin. ;)
>
> * * * * * * *
> smenkhkapep, whisperer of secrets
>
> Serpent Prince of Manila
Actually, I'd have to agree with Martin. Sleaze is my middle name.
(At least in Watford, anyhow).
Andy "Sleazemaster General" Brown
Setite Ruler of Cambridge
VEKN Prince
http://www.geocities.com/setitesuk
--
Whether it is nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of
outragous fortune, or get fat on chocolate cake, eat the cake, life
is too short to worry!
>Basically, Rewind TIme is AWESOMELY POWERFULL in enough quantities. It is a
>Rush defense ("Bums Rush? NO!"), it is a Vote defense ("KRC?" NO!").
My experience has been that it's good only in certain match ups. Obviously,
it's nice to stop a Sens. Dep. or the like. But, I end up pitching them quite
often. One player borrowed my deck and played two at the Presence level
(*cringe*). Maybe we just see more decks that rely less on good action cards.
cur...@aol.com (Curevei) wrote in message news:<20020130141419...@mb-cf.aol.com>...
[ quoted text not captured ]
Man, you must have really boring games if nobody uses Action cards!!!
Even at the most basic level, action cards are the most important
parts of the game:
Commbat: Bums Rush / Ambush / Nose of the Hound / Clandestine
Contract. All of these get screwed over by Rewind Time. Failing that,
you can nuke the Haven Uncovered / Contract / Dirty Contract with the
same card. This means as long as you have Rewind Times in your hand,
there is no reason why any of your minions should get rushed. You
cannot sit there and tell me that no-one plays a rush combat deck in
your area? Really?
Bleed: Unless they are bleeding for 1 or using Bleed modifiers only,
you are going to get bled by Computer Hackings / Govern the
Unlalligned / Legal Manipulations / Scouting Mission / Enchant Kindred
/ Social Charm / Kindred Spirits / Spirit Marionette / Mind Rape /
Slaughtering the Herd / Media Influence / Intimidation / Entrancement
/ Dominate Kine etc etc etc. All can be nuked (and in the case of
Governs or Enchant Kindreds, they can't even be used by your prey at
superior). This can quite easily nuke some players games out of the
water. You can't sit there and tell me that no one plays dominate /
presence / dementation / etc bleed in your area?
Votes: Any vote card is an action. Rewind Times can therefore screw
over ANY voting strategy by burning the votes. You can't sit there and
tell me no-one plays vote decks in your area?
"Specialist strategies": Sensory dep? NO. Enticement? NO. Mind Rape
(sup)? NO. Spirit Marionette? NO. Shadow Twin? NO. Corruption? NO.
Temptation? NO. Form of Corruption? NO. Embrace? No. Temptation of
Greater Power? NO. Hostile Takeover? NO. Slaughterhouse? NO. Arson?
No. You can't tell me that no-one in your area uses any of these
cards...
If none of the above are applicable, then I pity your playgroup! You
must all play ally decks or intercept combat decks.
Remeber, Rewind Time doesn't limit you to actions or Masters directed
at you. If they refuse to direct the nasty actions at you, you can
auction your RTs accross the table for help with votes, choosing a
vampire controlled by someone else to rush, pool (with a Succubus
club)... etc. Nasty Masters like Havens or Contracts going at your
ally can be burned... for a favour.
Rewind Time is very, very powerful. It nukes Masters. It nukes action
cards. It has the capacity to trouble any deck in any play
enivironment. I would challenge anyone to explain different.
But the most important thing about RT is that it is only a SUPPORT
strategy. Look at the Watford decklist again. It is a vote deck with
some bleed and corruption. Rewind Time is an important part of it's
strategy, but it is only a support for it.I'm sure in the future some
brave soul will make a deck with 30 RTs and 10 Suddens and 10 DIs. I
encourage this, as it will in turn force a deck capable of getting
around it, and thus help evolve the game (you don't make an omlette
without breaking eggs). However, for now it is purely to be used to
save your ass and help you win.
DH
hamdamcwa wrote:
> Votes: Any vote card is an action. Rewind Times can therefore screw
> over ANY voting strategy by burning the votes. You can't sit there and
> tell me no-one plays vote decks in your area?
>
Does the political action cards qualify as actioncards? I hope so but
I'm not 100% certain.
Apart from that I've seen a couple of decks that actually relies more
or less totally on modifiers for their forward motion, but all in all
Rewind Time seems to be a good, albeit not 'almighty' card.
Played too exessively you risk ending up with empty vamps round six
or so, so I'd most probably put in just enough to kill key actions -
pretty much the same way we see Sudden and DI used.
Sten During
Andy Brown <a...@sanger.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<3C5819BE...@sanger.ac.uk>...
> Smenkhkapep wrote:
> >
> > >And remember, you're the Setites, sleaze IS your middle name :)
> >
> > I truly resent that. You've got the children of the Dark God all
> > wrong, Martin. ;)
> >
> > * * * * * * *
> > smenkhkapep, whisperer of secrets
> >
> > Serpent Prince of Manila
>
> Actually, I'd have to agree with Martin. Sleaze is my middle name.
> (At least in Watford, anyhow).
>
> Andy "Sleazemaster General" Brown
>
> Setite Ruler of Cambridge
> VEKN Prince
>
> http://www.geocities.com/setitesuk
Didn't manage to sleaze your way into the final though, did ya Andy....
Martin "There's only enough room for one sleaze-master in Watford" Cubberley
That is, unless Matt Green happens to be around that day.
Andy Brown <a...@sanger.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<3C5819BE...@sanger.ac.uk>...
> Smenkhkapep wrote:
> >
> > >And remember, you're the Setites, sleaze IS your middle name :)
> >
> > I truly resent that. You've got the children of the Dark God all
> > wrong, Martin. ;)
> >
> > * * * * * * *
> > smenkhkapep, whisperer of secrets
> >
> > Serpent Prince of Manila
>
> Actually, I'd have to agree with Martin. Sleaze is my middle name.
> (At least in Watford, anyhow).
>
> Andy "Sleazemaster General" Brown
>
> Setite Ruler of Cambridge
> VEKN Prince
>
> http://www.geocities.com/setitesuk
Didn't manage to sleaze your way into the final though, did ya Andy....
[ quoted text not captured ]
Andy Brown <a...@sanger.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<3C5819BE...@sanger.ac.uk>...
> Smenkhkapep wrote:
> >
> > >And remember, you're the Setites, sleaze IS your middle name :)
> >
> > I truly resent that. You've got the children of the Dark God all
> > wrong, Martin. ;)
> >
> > * * * * * * *
> > smenkhkapep, whisperer of secrets
> >
> > Serpent Prince of Manila
>
> Actually, I'd have to agree with Martin. Sleaze is my middle name.
> (At least in Watford, anyhow).
>
> Andy "Sleazemaster General" Brown
>
> Setite Ruler of Cambridge
> VEKN Prince
>
> http://www.geocities.com/setitesuk
Ok, 3rd time lucky.... Man, what is up with this bloody thing!!!
[ quoted text not captured ]
Sten During wrote:
> Does the political action cards qualify as actioncards? I hope so but
> I'm not 100% certain.
A Politcal Action card is an action card.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
<snip>
> Rewind Time is very, very powerful. It nukes Masters. It nukes action
> cards. It has the capacity to trouble any deck in any play
> enivironment. I would challenge anyone to explain different.
>
> But the most important thing about RT is that it is only a SUPPORT
> strategy. Look at the Watford decklist again. It is a vote deck with
> some bleed and corruption. Rewind Time is an important part of it's
> strategy, but it is only a support for it.I'm sure in the future some
> brave soul will make a deck with 30 RTs and 10 Suddens and 10 DIs. I
> encourage this, as it will in turn force a deck capable of getting
> around it, and thus help evolve the game (you don't make an omlette
> without breaking eggs). However, for now it is purely to be used to
> save your ass and help you win.
Rewind Time is great, no probs. with that, however:
1. Any prey of mine using 30 RTs, 10 Suddens and 10 DI's is going to
be in BIG BIG trouble. I always make sure my vampires don't have to
rely solely on actions for forward pressure (or whatever other effect
I need to achieve). And my prey just wasted 50 card slots and bought
into a hard-to-combine subclan/crypt situation. A specific deck which
will hurt the 'action denial' deck a lot is my all-inbuilt D deck
(beast, Wynn, Rectrix, etc.) - but that's just one example.
2. What about against weenie decks? You'll need to counter LOTS of
actions, so ever more deck space in the 'action denial' deck will be
spent on blood gain for the quickly emptying Trujah.
Still, I haven't really been hurt by Trujah yet - maybe after my
storyline event has seen the Trujah deck we are currently discussing
in this newsgroup (which uses only 2 RT, granted).
Tobias
Deventer
legb...@mailandnews.com (legbiter) wrote in message news:<22fea992.02013...@posting.google.com>...
> <snip>
>
> Congratulations, Pierre! And yes, i DID get both your emails. And have
> done NOTHING about them yet. Sigh. Sorry!
Without wishing to sound pushy, what happened to you, James?
I did hold off starting until 1pm just in case you showed, but no joy.
A shame. You'd have probably done quite well! Only about 60% of decks
had sleaze in them... plenty of room for more!
;)
DH
> Does the political action cards qualify as actioncards? I hope so but
> I'm not 100% certain.
Yes. I checked.
;)
> Apart from that I've seen a couple of decks that actually relies more
> or less totally on modifiers for their forward motion, but all in all
> Rewind Time seems to be a good, albeit not 'almighty' card.
> Played too exessively you risk ending up with empty vamps round six
> or so, so I'd most probably put in just enough to kill key actions -
> pretty much the same way we see Sudden and DI used.
Ok, say Synesios is your RT man. He calls a vote (at stealth if need
be!). He lobs in modifiers to pass it by lots. He Voter Caps. He
Domain of Evernights.
Enough, hopefully, for another 4 RTs.
Same for Nu. A bit trickier for Krassmir (basic pre).
DH
[ quoted text not captured ]
Umm, the other thing to consider is it's *cost*. 2 blood is not trivial so you
aren't going to just be tossing them on every action. And the fact that the
Trujah have to be untapped to use it against master cards.
*shrug*
It's ok. I don't think it's "AWESOMELY POWERFULL".
Sorrow
--
Through the screams of falling steel. By the light of flares and wisdom.
All the doubts I could not face. All this time I wanted more.
With a line I'll mark the past as a symbol of beginning.
To the gods whose names we've lost and the names who gave in vain.
"legbiter" <legb...@mailandnews.com> wrote in message
> Congratulations, Pierre!
Thanks *grins*
And yes, i DID get both your emails. And have
> done NOTHING about them yet. Sigh. Sorry!
that's ok, there is no rush at all. I just wasn't sure at all if i was
sending to the right address :)
[ quoted text not captured ]
hamdamcwa wrote:
>>Apart from that I've seen a couple of decks that actually relies more
>>or less totally on modifiers for their forward motion, but all in all
>>Rewind Time seems to be a good, albeit not 'almighty' card.
>>Played too exessively you risk ending up with empty vamps round six
>>or so, so I'd most probably put in just enough to kill key actions -
>>pretty much the same way we see Sudden and DI used.
>>>
> Ok, say Synesios is your RT man. He calls a vote (at stealth if need
> be!). He lobs in modifiers to pass it by lots. He Voter Caps. He
> Domain of Evernights.
>
> Enough, hopefully, for another 4 RTs.
>
> Same for Nu. A bit trickier for Krassmir (basic pre).
>
> DH
>
Nice try, but not here :)
Two princes, plus modifiers, MIGHT get your votes through. Not because
people play so very many vote-decks but because people want the
tradition-cards. Those without titled vampires bring 2 - 4
Delaying Tactics - just in case.
Another problem with the princes is of course that we see 2
intercept for the basic block, a problem that I myself
happily help increase ;)
Now, 4 - 5 RT in your deck, that's another thing, especially if
paired up with 2 Sudden and 2 DI. The other players will feel
like you denied them everything and you still have 80 + slots
to do your own stuff. I can even see it combined with a couple
of Iron Heart.
Sten During
>Man, you must have really boring games if nobody uses Action cards!!!
Relies on them for hurting people is slightly different from not playing them
at all.
>Even at the most basic level, action cards are the most important
>parts of the game:
I don't agree with this. But, I will concede that a number of the actions you
listed (and I snipped) are common. The problem seems to be how few end up
being directed at a particular player. Again, my contention is that the card
shines in certain match ups.
Sure, I've been happy the couple times someone tried to rush me, and I could
stop that. But, that's only happened in one out of three games (current
version of my deck). I've never been worried about votes, as my deck is a vote
deck. As for bleed, there's a lot of plus bleed through action modifiers that
it does nothing to stop. Nevermind that the minion can still take the same
action.
>Rewind Time is very, very powerful. It nukes Masters. It nukes action
>cards. It has the capacity to trouble any deck in any play
>enivironment. I would challenge anyone to explain different.
It's ability to nuke masters is debatable. The player can still play another.
I could see it as a good way to help out an ally who's master jammed. Also,
even with their copious amounts of untap, still so busy taking actions (like
stuff that refills the vampires so they can afford the card) that I often miss
a chance to nuke a master.
As for troubling any deck, I'm not going to play them just to get them out of
my hand. They're too expensive for that. Someone actually has to be doing
something I particularly don't want them to do (when I'm in a position to play
the card), which happens less often than I would have thought. Instead of
putting in defensive cards like this, I could have put in more offense or
cheaper, if more limited, defenses.
Maybe it has to do with being in a more focused environment. Or, maybe, it's
because of a lot of the recent decks have been experimental and, therefore,
less aggressive. Just reporting what I've seen so far, which is that I often
would rather have another card in hand.
> Umm, the other thing to consider is it's *cost*. 2 blood is not trivial so you
> aren't going to just be tossing them on every action. And the fact that the
> Trujah have to be untapped to use it against master cards.
> *shrug*
> It's ok. I don't think it's "AWESOMELY POWERFULL".
You don't have to use them on every action. That's the beauty. You
just use them to smash some actions and bluff the rest. As long as you
look capable of nuking an action, you are in the zone.
For about 4 turns in one game, I had no RTs in my hand. However, my
predator though I did, so didn't dare lay down his rush or his vote.
RTs are good for bluff value, and for power value.
DH
Sten During <ya...@netg.se> wrote in message news:<3C5983...@netg.se>...
> hamdamcwa wrote:
>
>
> >>Apart from that I've seen a couple of decks that actually relies more
> >>or less totally on modifiers for their forward motion, but all in all
> >>Rewind Time seems to be a good, albeit not 'almighty' card.
> >>Played too exessively you risk ending up with empty vamps round six
> >>or so, so I'd most probably put in just enough to kill key actions -
> >>pretty much the same way we see Sudden and DI used.
> >>
> >
> > Ok, say Synesios is your RT man. He calls a vote (at stealth if need
> > be!). He lobs in modifiers to pass it by lots. He Voter Caps. He
> > Domain of Evernights.
> >
> > Enough, hopefully, for another 4 RTs.
> >
> > Same for Nu. A bit trickier for Krassmir (basic pre).
> >
> > DH
> >
>
> Nice try, but not here :)
>
> Two princes, plus modifiers, MIGHT get your votes through. Not because
> people play so very many vote-decks but because people want the
> tradition-cards. Those without titled vampires bring 2 - 4
> Delaying Tactics - just in case.
That's why the vote was, for the most part, Free States Rant. Get the
edge with another minion (at stealth), call Free States Rant, Throw on
Superior Bewitching Oration. Laugh at all the Princes who are now
voting like Primogen.
Edge + Vote Card + 1 for Synesios + 4 for BO = 7 votes. 1 more for
Khehamos, 1 more for the other. Up to 9 votes. Even if everyone else
has 2 princes, the vote still passes. If everyone has 1, you get 5
blood back. Lob on an Awe to pass it by superlots.
> Another problem with the princes is of course that we see 2
> intercept for the basic block, a problem that I myself
> happily help increase ;)
Vote is at stealth, add Forgotten Labyrinth. No problem.
> Now, 4 - 5 RT in your deck, that's another thing, especially if
> paired up with 2 Sudden and 2 DI. The other players will feel
> like you denied them everything and you still have 80 + slots
> to do your own stuff. I can even see it combined with a couple
> of Iron Heart.
Yep. 5th Tradition my ass!
DH
> Rewind Time is great, no probs. with that, however:
>
> 1. Any prey of mine using 30 RTs, 10 Suddens and 10 DI's is going to
> be in BIG BIG trouble. I always make sure my vampires don't have to
> rely solely on actions for forward pressure (or whatever other effect
> I need to achieve). And my prey just wasted 50 card slots and bought
> into a hard-to-combine subclan/crypt situation. A specific deck which
> will hurt the 'action denial' deck a lot is my all-inbuilt D deck
> (beast, Wynn, Rectrix, etc.) - but that's just one example.
OK, that's you. But there are 3 other people on the table. All the
"built in Rushers" are quite pricey. A Free States Rant makes them
empty. with no blood, they are less dangerous (especially Wynn).
> 2. What about against weenie decks? You'll need to counter LOTS of
> actions, so ever more deck space in the 'action denial' deck will be
> spent on blood gain for the quickly emptying Trujah.
With Weenie decks, most decks are knackered. You just have to find out
the most annoying way of using them...
Weenie potence - Nuke the rush.
Weenie bleed - Nuke the big bleed actions, and deflect what else you
can.
Weenie Vote - Nuke the Praxis Seizures. Use table votes to screw them
over.
Even so, weenies will still get the edge on you. In my deck, I had
temptations to help me along...
> Still, I haven't really been hurt by Trujah yet - maybe after my
> storyline event has seen the Trujah deck we are currently discussing
> in this newsgroup (which uses only 2 RT, granted).
It's still early. Very few people have used the Trujah at all. This
whole thread is about how I was very pleased to report that in my
playing experiences, RT is a powerful card.
DH
> >Man, you must have really boring games if nobody uses Action cards!!!
>
> Relies on them for hurting people is slightly different from not playing them
> at all.
Which makes for slow, tedious games. Action cards give variety and
pace to the game. 95% of game strategies rely purely around action
cards.
> >Even at the most basic level, action cards are the most important
> >parts of the game:
>
> I don't agree with this. But, I will concede that a number of the actions you
> listed (and I snipped) are common. The problem seems to be how few end up
> being directed at a particular player. Again, my contention is that the card
> shines in certain match ups.
Virtually all of the actions I listed are directed to giving 1 player
an advantage over another. If they are not used that often in your
playgroup, you guys must be doing something very different to the
norm.
> Sure, I've been happy the couple times someone tried to rush me, and I could
> stop that. But, that's only happened in one out of three games (current
> version of my deck).
Are you saying you've only played three games?
> I've never been worried about votes, as my deck is a vote
> deck.
There will always be a time when you HAVE to worry about votes. There
is usually always at least one stage in a game when you can't control
the voting situtation. When the vote comes that you really can't let
pass and you have to, you will really wish you could've nuked the
vote.
However, bear in mind the observations I made were in the context of
my deck.
As for bleed, there's a lot of plus bleed through action modifiers
that
> it does nothing to stop. Nevermind that the minion can still take the same
> action.
Realistically, RT, although it can stop a critical bleed, is not
really set up to defend against a bleed deck. However, in VTES options
are ALWAYS nice to have.
> >Rewind Time is very, very powerful. It nukes Masters. It nukes action
> >cards. It has the capacity to trouble any deck in any play
> >enivironment. I would challenge anyone to explain different.
>
> It's ability to nuke masters is debatable. The player can still play another.
Yes, but if the Master is Hostile Takeover, you'll be glad you can
nuke it. Yes, they COULD play another, but all good players limit the
number of masters they have in their hand (with most decks). Every
Master they play and you nuke means one less master effect hitting the
table - good for you for sure.
e.g. Your prey, on 4 pool, plays a Minion Tap to gain 8 pool. Boy, how
much would you like to nuke that master?
> I could see it as a good way to help out an ally who's master jammed. Also,
> even with their copious amounts of untap, still so busy taking actions (like
> stuff that refills the vampires so they can afford the card) that I often miss
> a chance to nuke a master.
That's why the deck I played was nicely balanced. Because I could
control a lot of what was going on around the table, I focussed the
whole game and never missed an oppertunity.
> As for troubling any deck, I'm not going to play them just to get them out of
> my hand. They're too expensive for that. Someone actually has to be doing
> something I particularly don't want them to do (when I'm in a position to play
> the card), which happens less often than I would have thought. Instead of
> putting in defensive cards like this, I could have put in more offense or
> cheaper, if more limited, defenses.
This is where the power of Bluff comes in... "...if you try that, I'll
nuke the action". Gets you out of a LOT of trouble, especially if the
other person doesn't know how many RTs you have!
> Maybe it has to do with being in a more focused environment. Or, maybe, it's
> because of a lot of the recent decks have been experimental and, therefore,
> less aggressive. Just reporting what I've seen so far, which is that I often
> would rather have another card in hand.
Suit yourself. My experience is that is a very useful, flexible card
and I was glad I had a chance to experiement with it.
DH
hamdamcwa wrote:
> Sten During <ya...@netg.se> wrote in message news:<3C5983...@netg.se>...>>>>>Nice try, but not here :)
>>
>>Two princes, plus modifiers, MIGHT get your votes through. Not because
>>people play so very many vote-decks but because people want the
>>tradition-cards. Those without titled vampires bring 2 - 4
>>Delaying Tactics - just in case.
>>>
> That's why the vote was, for the most part, Free States Rant. Get the
> edge with another minion (at stealth), call Free States Rant, Throw on
> Superior Bewitching Oration. Laugh at all the Princes who are now
> voting like Primogen.
>
> Edge + Vote Card + 1 for Synesios + 4 for BO = 7 votes. 1 more for
> Khehamos, 1 more for the other. Up to 9 votes. Even if everyone else
> has 2 princes, the vote still passes. If everyone has 1, you get 5
> blood back. Lob on an Awe to pass it by superlots.
I thought you'd say that ;)
We'll stop at BO, as we're trying to bring blood on Synesios and
I don't like to risk Delaying Tactics after Awe, especially as
we're taking the political action when Synesios, having played
several succesful RT while being reacting minion, already is
rather empty on blood.
I guess you're aiming at a Synesios/Setites -deck with
Synesios being influenced first, so let's say we've got those
7 votes when we have the three-card-combo in our hand.
You will in a normal game here actually see on average
4 votes on the table (Free States Rant already taken
into consideration), which leaves Synesios with the added
capacity to play another 1.5 RT.
For me it's still too little to defend the massive amount
of RT you suggested.
>
>>>Another problem with the princes is of course that we see 2
>>intercept for the basic block, a problem that I myself
>>happily help increase ;)
>>>
> Vote is at stealth, add Forgotten Labyrinth. No problem.
>
>
Sure, didn't check Synesios out. You'll get to referendum.
>>>Now, 4 - 5 RT in your deck, that's another thing, especially if
>>paired up with 2 Sudden and 2 DI. The other players will feel
>>like you denied them everything and you still have 80 + slots
>>to do your own stuff. I can even see it combined with a couple
>>of Iron Heart.
>>>
> Yep. 5th Tradition my ass!
>
> DH
>
As long as my predator don't do anything but bloat, well, bloat
on ;) Prey, yep, that's a totally different matter.
And, lastly, at least we obviously agree that RT and its 'friends'
can be the base of a very evil deck :)
Sten During
> > Actually, I'd have to agree with Martin. Sleaze is my middle name.
> > (At least in Watford, anyhow).
> >
> > Andy "Sleazemaster General" Brown
> >
> > Setite Ruler of Cambridge
> > VEKN Prince
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/setitesuk
>> Didn't manage to sleaze your way into the final though, did ya Andy....
>
> Martin "There's only enough room for one sleaze-master in Watford" Cubberley
>
> That is, unless Matt Green happens to be around that day.
Hey I coulda played my Setites too...! :)
Regards,
Mike "I don't really play Tremere all the time" Nudd
VEKN Prince of London