Hi!!
1.- Cailean (10) Nosferatu Antitribu.
Card text: "Sabbat Archbishop of Detroit. At the beginning of each roud
of combat, Cailean can set range for that round. If he does so, skip the
Establish range step for that round."
Well, my first question is: Can Cailean set long range for combat rounds
without playing any maneuver card?
2.- Situation: My predator's last attack have been devastator. He almost
oust me (I only have 1 pool at the beginnig of my turn).
Question: Can I play any card that costs 1 pool? For example, could I
play Elder Library (1 pool) in my master phase?
If the answer is Yes, will my predator win the victory point?
Thanks.
JV.
In article <370DA298...@inf.upv.es>, Jose Vte. Ruiz Rubio
<jor...@inf.upv.es> writes
>Hi!!
>
>1.- Cailean (10) Nosferatu Antitribu.
>Card text: "Sabbat Archbishop of Detroit. At the beginning of each roud
>of combat, Cailean can set range for that round. If he does so, skip the
>Establish range step for that round."
>
>Well, my first question is: Can Cailean set long range for combat rounds
>without playing any maneuver card?
>
Yes, That's what his special ability says.
>2.- Situation: My predator's last attack have been devastator. He almost
>oust me (I only have 1 pool at the beginnig of my turn).
>Question: Can I play any card that costs 1 pool? For example, could I
>play Elder Library (1 pool) in my master phase?
>If the answer is Yes, will my predator win the victory point?
Yes, you can play the card.
Yes, he would get the victory point. He doesn't get the victory point
for doing something to get rid of you, he just gets the victory point
when you go. So even if you oust yourself, he gets the victory point.
--
James Coupe (Prince of Mercia, England)
Vampire: Elder Kindred Network
http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.nethttp://www.obeah.demon.co.uk
James Coupe wrote:
> Jose Vte. Ruiz Rubio <jor...@inf.upv.es> writes> >Well, my first question is: Can Cailean set long range for combat rounds
> >without playing any maneuver card?
>> Yes.
Correct.
> >I only have 1 pool at the beginnig of my turn.> >Question: Can I play any card that costs 1 pool? For example, could I
> >play Elder Library (1 pool) in my master phase?
> >If the answer is Yes, will my predator win the victory point?
>
> Yes, you can play the card.
>
> Yes, he would get the victory point. He doesn't get the victory point
> for doing something to get rid of you, he just gets the victory point
> when you go. So even if you oust yourself, he gets the victory point.
Correct.
--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the
Coast.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules:
http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html
Jose Vte. Ruiz Rubio wrote in message <370DA298...@inf.upv.es>...
>Hi!!
Hulloo!
>1.- Cailean (10) Nosferatu Antitribu.
>Card text: "Sabbat Archbishop of Detroit. At the beginning of each roud
>of combat, Cailean can set range for that round. If he does so, skip the
>Establish range step for that round."
>>Well, my first question is: Can Cailean set long range for combat rounds
>without playing any maneuver card?
Yes. He is broken as all get out.
If you dont believe me try this; only Beast and Cailean in your crypt,
library is full of hidden lurkers and thrown sewer lids, + a few ghoul
retainers and flamethrowers, disguised weapon, stealth + dodge cards. Beast
rushes using his innate ability, opposing minion majesty's etc or Beast
evades combat with obfuscate, Cailean hidden lurkers, and sets range to
long. Cailean has a lil' buddy with a flamethrower which is_not_a strike so
cant be dodged by brujah and assamites, no S:CE from other decks because of
the hidden lurker, no DoTB because his ability is not a maneuver, no IG
because he set range to long. If the vampire prevents your flamethrower
damage with fortitude just keep chucking sewer lids until they fall over.
Okie, its not infallable. But it is a complete nightmare when its rolling.
>2.- Situation: My predator's last attack have been devastator. He almost>oust me (I only have 1 pool at the beginnig of my turn).>Question: Can I play any card that costs 1 pool? For example, could I
>play Elder Library (1 pool) in my master phase?
>If the answer is Yes, will my predator win the victory point?
The answer is yes. You may suicide at any time provided the means exist to
do so, vast wealth being a favourite for careless players. You can also
transfer yourself out if you are feeling spiteful, or on one occaision I was
just about to be ousted by a bleed for 4 when I was on 3 pool so I Archon
Investigated his vampire because I could (he shouldnt have cycled the extre
bleed card on me :> ) some more damage before I went out.
Your predator's prey was reduced to 0 blood, 1 VP for them.
Hope that helps,
thanks for the chance to rant about Cailean (I really dont like him)
Floatey.
LSJ escribió:
> James Coupe wrote:
> > Jose Vte. Ruiz Rubio <jor...@inf.upv.es> writes> > >Well, my first question is: Can Cailean set long range for combat rounds
> > >without playing any maneuver card?
> >
> > Yes.
>> Correct.
>
> > >I only have 1 pool at the beginnig of my turn.> > >Question: Can I play any card that costs 1 pool? For example, could I
> > >play Elder Library (1 pool) in my master phase?
> > >If the answer is Yes, will my predator win the victory point?
> >> > Yes, you can play the card.
> >
> > Yes, he would get the victory point. He doesn't get the victory point
> > for doing something to get rid of you, he just gets the victory point
> > when you go. So even if you oust yourself, he gets the victory point.
>
> Correct.
And, will he win my ante card and 6 pool?
[ quoted text not captured ]
James B Floate wrote:
>>If you dont believe me try this; only Beast and Cailean in your crypt,
library is full of hidden lurkers and thrown sewer lids, + a few ghoul
retainers and flamethrowers, disguised weapon, stealth + dodge cards. Beast
rushes using his innate ability, opposing minion majesty's etc or Beast evades
combat with obfuscate, Cailean hidden lurkers, and sets range to long. Cailean
has a lil' buddy with a flamethrower which is_not_a strike so cant be dodged by
brujah and assamites, no S:CE from other decks because of the hidden lurker, no
DoTB because his ability is not a maneuver, no IG because he set range to long.
If the vampire prevents your flamethrower damage with fortitude just keep
chucking sewer lids until they fall over.>>
A. Sadly, this doesn't work. Hidden Lurker is only playable if the acting
vampire is blocked. Who is going to block Beast?
B. If your opponents can kill you before you get out a 7 point vampire, a 10
point vampire, a Ghoul Retainer, and a Flamethrower _before_ you start
attacking them (that's, what, 23 pool, 17 transfers, and two equip actions?),
they simply aren't trying.
Peter D Bakija
PD...@aol.com
"I dunno, Marge.
Trying is the first step towards failure."
-Homer
> >Well, my first question is: Can Cailean set long range for combat rounds
> >without playing any maneuver card?> Yes. He is broken as all get out.
uhhh, no. I don't believe he is.
> If you dont believe me try this; only Beast and Cailean in your crypt,
> library is full of hidden lurkers and thrown sewer lids, + a few ghoul
> retainers and flamethrowers, disguised weapon, stealth + dodge cards.
Beast
> rushes using his innate ability, opposing minion majesty's etc or Beast
> evades combat with obfuscate,
This sounds like a pretty sketchy strategy if you ask me.
>Cailean hidden lurkers, and sets range to long.
Bzzzt. Wrong, and thank you for playing. We have some nice departing
prizes...
You can only use Hidden Lurker on an action that was blocked.
>Cailean has a lil' buddy with a flamethrower which is_not_a strike so
> cant be dodged by brujah and assamites, no S:CE from other decks because
of
> the hidden lurker,
Since Dodge is a strike, it couldn't be used during the first round of a
Hidden Lurker
combat either.
>no DoTB because his ability is not a maneuver,
The opposing Vampire could still use DotB. At that point, Cailean just
couldn't
use the Flame Thrower if he didn't have a Ghoul Retainer and would also take
the
1 damage if DotB was used at superior.
> Okie, its not infallable. But it is a complete nightmare when its rolling.
Umm, hardly. The deck you propose above would have a difficult time
working,
actually.
Sorrow
--
---
I don't want to be alone | I hurt, therefore I am
anymore |--------------------------------
I don't want to be anyone | "What are you looking at...?
anymore | you never seen anyone try to
I don't need a reason to kill myself | commit suicide before?" - Anon
------------------------------------------------------------------------
In article <370DF561...@inf.upv.es>, Jose Vte. Ruiz Rubio
<jor...@inf.upv.es> writes
>And, will he win my ante card and 6 pool?
Yes, that all happens when you get ousted, whether he does it, you do
it, or someone across the table does it.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Jose Vte. Ruiz Rubio wrote:
> LSJ escribió:
> > James Coupe wrote:> > > Jose Vte. Ruiz Rubio <jor...@inf.upv.es> writes> > > >I only have 1 pool at the beginnig of my turn.
> > > >Question: Can I play any card that costs 1 pool? For example, could I
> > > >play Elder Library (1 pool) in my master phase?
> > > >If the answer is Yes, will my predator win the victory point?
> > >
> > > Yes, you can play the card.
> > >
> > > Yes, he would get the victory point. He doesn't get the victory point
> > > for doing something to get rid of you, he just gets the victory point
> > > when you go. So even if you oust yourself, he gets the victory point.
> >
> > Correct.
>> And, will he win my ante card and 6 pool?
?
He'll win your ante if you play for ante, yes.
He'll get six pool, yes (unless the amount has been changed by
Political Flux).
See the Revised Rulebook for complete handling of this.
[ quoted text not captured ]
On Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:16:03 +1000, "James B Floate"
<flo...@ihug.com.au> wrote:
>>1.- Cailean (10) Nosferatu Antitribu.
>>Card text: "Sabbat Archbishop of Detroit. At the beginning of each roud
>>of combat, Cailean can set range for that round. If he does so, skip the
>>Establish range step for that round."
>>>>Well, my first question is: Can Cailean set long range for combat rounds
>>without playing any maneuver card?>
>Yes. He is broken as all get out.
No 10-cap will ever be "broken" in my opinion. Arika isn't even
'broken', just because locations aren't that vital. They're just so
damned big that they come with their own inherent penalty. =)
>If you dont believe me try this; only Beast and Cailean in your crypt,
>library is full of hidden lurkers and thrown sewer lids, + a few ghoul
>retainers and flamethrowers, disguised weapon, stealth + dodge cards. Beast
>rushes using his innate ability, opposing minion majesty's etc or Beast>evades combat with obfuscate, Cailean hidden lurkers, and sets range to
Hidden Lurker only works for a combat resulting from a block...
>Okie, its not infallable. But it is a complete nightmare when its rolling.
At 17 pool to start, I'd worry about ever getting it rolling. =)
>Hope that helps,
>thanks for the chance to rant about Cailean (I really dont like him)
He makes combat decks a l'il more viable. It's great. =)
-- Derek
(replying by email? remove the nospam from my domain :)
On Fri, 9 Apr 1999, LSJ wrote:
> James Coupe wrote:
> > Jose Vte. Ruiz Rubio <jor...@inf.upv.es> writes> > >Well, my first question is: Can Cailean set long range for combat rounds
> > >without playing any maneuver card?
> >
> > Yes.
>> Correct.
Can Cailean set the range to long and play Drawing out the Beast in the
same round? Or is DotB only playable after Cailean's special ability?
-davey!
[Note to self, dont exaggerate on the newsgroup]
Okie. Fine. He isnt that bad, but I think he should have to pay a blood for
his ability like a shadow step.
And I should check the errata more carefully, I seem to have missed some
points.
As for the rest. puuh. Dont use the b word I guess. I said 'if' it gets
rolling. Obviously people like Peter and yourself think that the risk in
development is a strong balancing factor.
Floatey
In article <Pine.GSO.3.95.990409183754.9965G-
100...@harper.uchicago.edu>, davey sprocket
<dhat...@midway.uchicago.edu> writes
>Can Cailean set the range to long and play Drawing out the Beast in the
>same round? Or is DotB only playable after Cailean's special ability?
Drawing out the beast would be played first (before range, I think). It
prevents maneuvers. Cailean does not maneuver, he sets range. So what
you suggest is possible.
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <vq5vuXAq...@obeah.demon.co.uk>,
James Coupe <ve...@obeah.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Drawing out the beast would be played first (before range, I think). It
> prevents maneuvers. Cailean does not maneuver, he sets range. So what
> you suggest is possible.
i always thought that combat timing was broken down something like this:
as combat is entered
beginning of round
before range
establish range
etc...
with the begignning of round step coming in before "before range", so that
the "stackability" of weather control actually exists. it is played "at
beginning of round", but deals it's damage "before range", so you can play
multiples without going to torpor once you've played more WCs than you have
blood on you.
and with this ordering, also, cailian would set the range first, _then_
drawing out the beast would get played (prefferably by cailian, and
prefferably 1 more DotB than the opposing vamp has blood O:).
this does make sense, does it not?
* ....salem.... *
* http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/5848/ *
*** salem_...@my-dejanews.com ***
* V:EKN Prince of Canberra *
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
In article <7epumo$a89$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, salem <salem_christ@my-
dejanews.com> writes
>and with this ordering, also, cailian would set the range first, _then_
>drawing out the beast would get played (prefferably by cailian, and
>prefferably 1 more DotB than the opposing vamp has blood O:).
My apologies. I thought he set range during "Establish Range" when he
actually does it "AT beginning of round".
So he sets range, then DotB is played. However, it's perfectly legal as
far as I can see to play those too. Stops you suffering from their
extra hand damage, too ;)
[ quoted text not captured ]
James B Floate wrote:
>>As for the rest. puuh. Dont use the b word I guess. I said 'if' it gets
rolling. Obviously people like Peter and yourself think that the risk in
development is a strong balancing factor.>>
Aww, I'm a big fan of calling cards "broken". I do it all the time. I just
don't think that Caliean is one of them. Yeah, his ability is really powerful,
but it doesn't exist in a vaccum, and his context is that of a 10 point
vampire. 10 point vampires are, for the most part, unuseable in all but a very
few workable deck designs, and very few, if any, of these deck designs are
effective combat decks.
10 point vampires really are just too big to be used in an effective combat
deck. If you can make Caliean work in a combat deck, you should go to town and
be a proud man.
If Caliean was, on the other hand, a 5 point vampire with POT, obf, ani and
that ability, I'd be fairly inclined to agree with your assessment (while using
him in all of my decks :-)
[ quoted text not captured ]
>If you dont believe me try this; only Beast and Cailean in your crypt,
>library is full of hidden lurkers and thrown sewer lids, + a few ghoul
>retainers and flamethrowers, disguised weapon, stealth + dodge cards. Beast
>rushes using his innate ability, opposing minion majesty's etc or Beast
>evades combat with obfuscate, Cailean hidden lurkers, and sets range to>long. Cailean has a lil' buddy with a flamethrower which is_not_a strike so>cant be dodged by brujah and assamites
I don't understand - why can't the opposing minion dodge the Ghoul Retainer
(apart from Hidden Lurker "no strikes which as other people have pointed out
can't be played if Beast isn't blocked) ?
My understanding was that the Ghoul Retainer is under the same constraints
as the employing vampire. For example, if the employing vampire plays IG,
the Ghoul Retainer cannot use the flamethrower.
Similarly, if the opposing minion dodges Cailean he also dodges the Ghoul
Retainer with the flamethrower.
Eric Topp wrote in message <7f4qnr$d76$1...@black.interact.net.au>...
>My understanding was that the Ghoul Retainer is under the same constraints
>as the employing vampire. For example, if the employing vampire plays IG,
>the Ghoul Retainer cannot use the flamethrower.
>
>Similarly, if the opposing minion dodges Cailean he also dodges the Ghoul
>Retainer with the flamethrower.
>
Retainer damage is considered 'environmental'. It doesn't source out
from a strike, and thus cannot be dodged, or prevented with say Skin if
Steel (card text specifies strike damage). Skin of Rock does prevent
retainer damage, though. It'd be better to equate retainer damage to, say,
Carrion Crows, or WEather Control, as these are non-strike sources of damage
within combat...
Hope this helps.
Regards,
R. David Zopf
Atom Weaver
Eric Topp wrote:
> >long. Cailean has a lil' buddy with a flamethrower which is_not_a strike so
> >cant be dodged by brujah and assamites
>
> I don't understand - why can't the opposing minion dodge the Ghoul Retainer
> (apart from Hidden Lurker "no strikes which as other people have pointed out
> can't be played if Beast isn't blocked) ?
Damage from the Ghoul Retainer isn't a strike as [citation lost] pointed out.
Therefore, it cannot be dodged. See the rulebook for a description of the
effects of a Dodge.
> My understanding was that the Ghoul Retainer is under the same constraints
> as the employing vampire. For example, if the employing vampire plays IG,
> the Ghoul Retainer cannot use the flamethrower.
IG specifies that the only strikes that can be used are hand strikes. Since the
Ghoul is not striking, he is not affected.
> Similarly, if the opposing minion dodges Cailean he also dodges the Ghoul
> Retainer with the flamethrower.
Incorrect. Dodge only defends against the opposing minion's strike.
The Ghoul is not the opposing minion, and he isn't striking.
--
LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
[ quoted text not captured ]