Contesting Question for LSJ

How to resolve the following situation? : You've just started your master phase when you realise that you have a contested card. Are you forced to yield at that point? Or are you forced to make the choice whether to pay or yield at that time? I see nothing in 4.0 or 4.1 that specifically says you must yield if you forget. ROBYN M

>===== Original Message From rrme...@earthlink.net (Robyn M) ===== [ quoted text not captured ] You cannot leave your untap phase without handling the mandatory untap phase events (such as contesting). So you must, as possible, back up to your untap phase and finish it properly. If this is not possible, then the judge should rectify the situation as appropriate. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ ------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE web-based e-mail and newsgroup access at: http://MailAndNews.com

"LSJ" <vte...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message news:3B75...@MailAndNews.com... > >===== Original Message From rrme...@earthlink.net (Robyn M) ===== > >How to resolve the following situation? : > > > >You've just started your master phase when you realise that you have a > >contested card. > > > >Are you forced to yield at that point? Or are you forced to make the > >choice whether to pay or yield at that time? > > > >I see nothing in 4.0 or 4.1 that specifically says you must yield if > >you forget. > > You cannot leave your untap phase without handling the mandatory untap > phase events (such as contesting). > > So you must, as possible, back up to your untap phase and finish it > properly. If this is not possible, then the judge should rectify the > situation as appropriate. Right. So, 4.0 says that during your untap phase you must "choose" to yield or pay to continue contesting. As soon as the error is noticed you then make your choice. You are not forced to yield. -Robert

>===== Original Message From "Robert Goudie" <rrgo...@earthlink.net> ===== [ quoted text not captured ] It may be a little more involved than simply "making your choice", depending on how much has happened in the game since then, though. Any time you back up and change game state, you have to reconsider everything that followed that event. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ <vte...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message news:<3B75...@MailAndNews.com>... > >===== Original Message From rrme...@earthlink.net (Robyn M) ===== > >How to resolve the following situation? : > > > >You've just started your master phase when you realise that you have a > >contested card. > > > >Are you forced to yield at that point? Or are you forced to make the > >choice whether to pay or yield at that time? > > > >I see nothing in 4.0 or 4.1 that specifically says you must yield if > >you forget. > > You cannot leave your untap phase without handling the mandatory untap > phase events (such as contesting). Is getting a pool from having the Edge mandatory?

>===== Original Message From ita...@hotmail.com (Itamar G. Jr.) ===== >Is getting a pool from having the Edge mandatory? The rules say "may". [4] [ quoted text not captured ]

>>Is getting a pool from having the Edge mandatory? > >The rules say "may". BTW: Is using Huntings Grounds mandatory? I've always played is like with the Edge: if you forget it too bad so sad. But I know so people that claim it *is* mandatory (which I suppose it's good if you forget about it occasionally). Halcyan 2

>===== Original Message From halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) ===== [ quoted text not captured ] No. The abilities you get from locations arenot mandatory, in general. [ quoted text not captured ]

"LSJ" <vte...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message news:3B9C...@MailAndNews.com... > >===== Original Message From halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) ===== > >>>Is getting a pool from having the Edge mandatory? > >> > >>The rules say "may". > > > >BTW: Is using Huntings Grounds mandatory? I've always played is like with the > >Edge: if you forget it too bad so sad. But I know so people that claim it > *is* > >mandatory (which I suppose it's good if you forget about it occasionally). > > No. The abilities you get from locations arenot mandatory, in general. But in this case, we are talking about cards that follow the "During X, do Y" template. So, if someone "forgets" their Hunting Ground location, they have to go back to their untap phase and use their Hunting Ground, correct? And wouldn't you as a judge have to issue a Caution or a Warning, as necessary? > -- > LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. > Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Kevin M., Prince of Madison, WI (remove PLEASENOSPAMME for direct reply) "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, _The_Art_of_War_ "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier

"Kevin M." <kjme...@PLEASENOSPAMMEhome.com> wrote: >"LSJ" <vte...@MailAndNews.com> wrote: >> >BTW: Is using Huntings Grounds mandatory? >> No. The abilities you get from locations arenot mandatory, in general. > >But in this case, we are talking about cards that follow the "During X, >do Y" template. So, if someone "forgets" their Hunting Ground location, >they have to go back to their untap phase and use their Hunting Ground, >correct? And wouldn't you as a judge have to issue a Caution or a >Warning, as necessary? It's optional, as stated. So, no. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

"LSJ" <vte...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message news:3B58...@MailAndNews.com... > "Kevin M." <kjme...@PLEASENOSPAMMEhome.com> wrote: > >"LSJ" <vte...@MailAndNews.com> wrote: > >> >BTW: Is using Huntings Grounds mandatory? > >> No. The abilities you get from locations arenot mandatory, in general. > > > >But in this case, we are talking about cards that follow the "During X, > >do Y" template. So, if someone "forgets" their Hunting Ground location, > >they have to go back to their untap phase and use their Hunting Ground, > >correct? And wouldn't you as a judge have to issue a Caution or a > >Warning, as necessary? > > It's optional, as stated. So, no. Forgive me for being difficult, but I don't understand what you mean by "as stated". Are you saying that you have just made a ruling on Hunting Grounds in this thread? It's just that I'm trying to understand how a card that says: "During your untap phase, a ready vampire you control gains 1 blood from the blood bank. A vampire can only gain 1 blood from Hunting Ground cards each turn." ...can be considered optional. There is no "may", as with the Edge. The text states that during a specific phase, you do THIS; doesn't that mean that, when the time comes, you 'DO IT' ? I see no erratta for Hunting Grounds, and the template seems pretty clear: During X, do Y. > -- > LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. > Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <3vt47.142568$mG4.69...@news1.mntp1.il.home.com>, Kevin M. <kjme...@PLEASENOSPAMMEhome.com> writes >It's just that I'm trying to understand how a card that says: > >"During your untap phase, a ready vampire you control gains 1 blood from >the blood bank. A vampire can only gain 1 blood from Hunting Ground >cards each turn." > >...can be considered optional. There is no "may", as with the Edge. A number of such cards, from older sets, have an instructive effect like that. e.g. Tap to gain 2 votes during a political action. (Mausoleum) The interpretation has always been, with such cards, that there is an implicit "You may", otherwise you would *have* to gain the votes and would have no discretion, or somesuch. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D EBD690ECD7A1F She twirled a lock of hair around her forefinger and smiled B457CA213D7E6 faintly. "Actually, I'd settle for a small Greek." 68C3695D623D5D

"Kevin M." <kjme...@PLEASENOSPAMMEhome.com> wrote: >"LSJ" <vte...@MailAndNews.com> wrote: >> "Kevin M." <kjme...@PLEASENOSPAMMEhome.com> wrote: >> >"LSJ" <vte...@MailAndNews.com> wrote: >> >> >BTW: Is using Huntings Grounds mandatory? >> >> No. The abilities you get from locations arenot mandatory, in >general. >> >[...] >> It's optional, as stated. So, no. > >Forgive me for being difficult, but I don't understand what you mean by >"as stated". Are you saying that you have just made a ruling on Hunting >Grounds in this thread? I meant: "as I stated in the quote above". The "you do X" of locations isn't mandatory in general. You are not forced to tap Al's Army Apparatus. You are not forced to tap Arcane Library during your influence phase. You are not forced to tap Art Museum during your influence phase. You are not forced to tap Backways when a Gangrel you control takes an action. You are not forced to tap The Barrens. You are not forced to use the Chantry during your untap phase (per specific ruling) etc. >It's just that I'm trying to understand how a card that says: > >"During your untap phase, a ready vampire you control gains 1 blood from >the blood bank. A vampire can only gain 1 blood from Hunting Ground >cards each turn." > >...can be considered optional. There is no "may", as with the Edge. >The text states that during a specific phase, you do THIS; doesn't that >mean that, when the time comes, you 'DO IT' ? > >I see no erratta for Hunting Grounds, and the template seems pretty >clear: During X, do Y. I'll update the card lists so that the locations (HGs, those list above, etc.) are explicitly optional. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]