If I steal someone's vampire with Spirit
Marionette on my predator's turn (with
Madness Network), is it legal for me to
take a second Spirit Marionette action on
that same turn, or does the mandatory
bleed action of the first Marionetted vamp
keep me from doing that? If so, am I
prohibited (by having a pending mandatory
action) from taking any actions at all
(if, eg, the stolen vamp is not a
Malkavian and thus not eligible to act),
or can I take another mandatory action (eg
hunt) if I want to?
If I do take any action other than the
stolen vamp's bleed (if it's legal to do
so), that stolen vamp will still return to
its controller at the end of that other
action, right?
thanks,
Josh
spiritous
"Joshua Duffin" <jtdu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a6ltqc$f98de$1...@ID-121616.news.dfncis.de...
> If I steal someone's vampire with Spirit
> Marionette on my predator's turn (with
> Madness Network), is it legal for me to
> take a second Spirit Marionette action on
> that same turn, or does the mandatory
> bleed action of the first Marionetted vamp
> keep me from doing that?
>
Yes, no. That is, your mandatory action is impossible to take, so you *are* allowed
to take another action with a different minion.
> If I do take any action other than the
> stolen vamp's bleed (if it's legal to do
> so), that stolen vamp will still return to
> its controller at the end of that other
> action, right?
>
Right. So, apart from cycling cards, it's generally a bad idea to take other
actions. There are a few situations like: Lalitha wants to put a Temptation on my
grand-prey's Raven, but I have no Form of the Serpent, so it won't be at stealth.
Both of my minions are CI'd to Malkavian, and a Madness Network is in play. Matthias
Spirit Marionette's Raven, then Lalitha puts Temptation on her, which becomes an
undirected action that your predator and prey choose not to block. There may be more
likely forms of this, but that's the first one I thought of...
Chris Berger wrote:
>
> "Joshua Duffin" <jtdu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:a6ltqc$f98de$1...@ID-121616.news.dfncis.de...
> > If I steal someone's vampire with Spirit
> > Marionette on my predator's turn (with
> > Madness Network), is it legal for me to
> > take a second Spirit Marionette action on
> > that same turn, or does the mandatory
> > bleed action of the first Marionetted vamp
> > keep me from doing that?
> >
> Yes, no. That is, your mandatory action is impossible to take, so you *are* allowed
> to take another action with a different minion.
True. Also note that actions are only "mandatory" on your
own minion phase. Even if the marionetted vampire was a
Malkavian, he wouldn't be forced to bleed out of turn
(although he still couldn't take any other action).
> > If I do take any action other than the
> > stolen vamp's bleed (if it's legal to do
> > so), that stolen vamp will still return to
> > its controller at the end of that other
> > action, right?
> >
> Right. So, apart from cycling cards, it's generally a bad idea to take other
> actions.
Right.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Can I just ask whether or not the following could be done
Madness network is out
My Malky Spirit Marionettes another vampire at the end of my predators
minion phase
Spirit Marionetted vamp is not a malky, so can't act.
No other vampires take an action.
In my untap step, use Khobar towers to burn Spirit Marionetted Vamp
(as I control it, in my ready region).
It then doesn't matter what my first action is in my minion phase,
as the Spirit Marrionetted vamp is no longer controlled by me.
I gain, my Prey gets shafted, and I get my car keyed at the earliest
opportunity by all the other players.
Watch out for this deck, coming soon!
Andy
VEKN Setite Ruler of Cambridge
http://www.geocities.com/setitesuk
--
Whether it is nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of
outragous fortune, or get fat on chocolate cake, eat the cake, life
is too short to worry!
In message <3C8F3B3A...@sanger.ac.uk>, Andy Brown
<a...@sanger.ac.uk> writes:
>Madness network is out
During your prey's turn, he tries to burns it.
>My Malky Spirit Marionettes another vampire at the end of my predators
>minion phase
You missed out "My Salubri Clan Impersonated to Malkavian already" and
"I had a Setite *as well* for Golconda Towers" and "I also had a ready
Malkavian when I played Madness Network".
CI-ed Salubri are a fairly obvious give-away, mmmkay?
Now, if you're playing Spirit Marionette, Reversal of Fortunes,
Telepathic Vote Counting (lots of Auspex, one hopes), Clan
Impersonation, Khobar Towers, there's fiendish. :)
More seriously, the number of *obvious* moving parts this has is likely
to be quite a shocker. (As opposed to having quite a lot of otherwise
innocuous or purely transient moving parts.)
--
James Coupe Oh, the poor folks hate the rich folks,
PGP 0x5D623D5D And the rich folks hate the poor folks.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 All of my folks hate all of your folks,
13D7E668C3695D623D5D It's American as apple pie.
Andy Brown wrote:
> Can I just ask whether or not the following could be done
>
> Madness network is out
> My Malky Spirit Marionettes another vampire at the end of my predators
> minion phase
> Spirit Marionetted vamp is not a malky, so can't act.
> No other vampires take an action.
> In my untap step, use Khobar towers to burn Spirit Marionetted Vamp
> (as I control it, in my ready region).
Yes, this is legal.
[ quoted text not captured ]
James Coupe wrote:
>
> In message <3C8F3B3A...@sanger.ac.uk>, Andy Brown
> <a...@sanger.ac.uk> writes:
> >Madness network is out
>
> During your prey's turn, he tries to burns it.
I block and used my disguised Ivory Bow to torporise him
>
> >My Malky Spirit Marionettes another vampire at the end of my predators
> >minion phase
>
> You missed out "My Salubri Clan Impersonated to Malkavian already" and
Malkavian with two Vial of Elder Vitae
> "I had a Setite *as well* for Golconda Towers" and "I also had a ready
Malky pretends to be Setite with Clan Impersonation
> Malkavian when I played Madness Network".
You got me.
>
> CI-ed Salubri are a fairly obvious give-away, mmmkay?
What Salubri?
>
> Now, if you're playing Spirit Marionette, Reversal of Fortunes,
> Telepathic Vote Counting (lots of Auspex, one hopes), Clan
> Impersonation, Khobar Towers, there's fiendish. :)
>
> More seriously, the number of *obvious* moving parts this has is likely
> to be quite a shocker. (As opposed to having quite a lot of otherwise
> innocuous or purely transient moving parts.)
Are yes, but if it is so blindingly obvious, people won't spot it,
intrigue means that people look to hard to see what is really there.
Andy "Hiding strategy in plain site" Brown
[ quoted text not captured ]
In message <3C8F52EE...@sanger.ac.uk>, Andy Brown
<a...@sanger.ac.uk> writes:
>James Coupe wrote:>>
>> In message <3C8F3B3A...@sanger.ac.uk>, Andy Brown
>> <a...@sanger.ac.uk> writes:
>> >Madness network is out
>>
>> During your prey's turn, he tries to burns it.>
>I block and used my disguised Ivory Bow to torporise him
Which means you're tapped for the purposes of playing Spirit Marionette.
It is also the case that a deck that has Disguised Weapon and Ivory Bow
and Khobar Towers and two Vial of Elder Vitae and Madness Network and
Spirit Marionette and an arbitrary amount of stealth and/or intercept on
demand will find itself with difficult, but not impossible, card flow.
>> >My Malky Spirit Marionettes another vampire at the end of my predators
>> >minion phase
>>
>> You missed out "My Salubri Clan Impersonated to Malkavian already" and>
>Malkavian with two Vial of Elder Vitae
Which is two more actions. And tapped vampire(s), who can't take Spirit
Marionette actions.
Don't forget, this way you can only do this trick *once*.
For such a significant set-up, having two vials which get used once
(maybe, because of blocks) is a lot of work.
A Salubri offers more potential long term returns (at the expense of
greater numbers of vampires).
>> "I had a Setite *as well* for Golconda Towers" and "I also had a ready>
>Malky pretends to be Setite with Clan Impersonation
Again, another significant piece of investment. (2 blood, an action, an
action card, a tapped minion.)
>> Malkavian when I played Madness Network".>
>You got me.
With all these CIs flying around, it becomes tricky to necessarily
maintain the relevant clans. A deck that takes out one moving piece
(e.g. an Arson, a Disputed Territory or whatever) can try and then take
out the relevant vampires (a rush, a Banishment or whatever).
Difficult, but obviously not impossible, to do. Decks that can take out
secondary resources always have a lot of potential influence.
>> CI-ed Salubri are a fairly obvious give-away, mmmkay?>
>What Salubri?
Khobar Towers (which must be in play the turn before you do this) and a
Malkavian with two Vials on it (or two vials in play, which you are
going to Heidelberg one of to another vampire later) are fairly
significant clues to a deck that something Bad (tm) or Funny (tm) is
going to happen.
>> Now, if you're playing Spirit Marionette, Reversal of Fortunes,
>> Telepathic Vote Counting (lots of Auspex, one hopes), Clan
>> Impersonation, Khobar Towers, there's fiendish. :)
>>
>> More seriously, the number of *obvious* moving parts this has is likely
>> to be quite a shocker. (As opposed to having quite a lot of otherwise
>> innocuous or purely transient moving parts.)>
>Are yes, but if it is so blindingly obvious, people won't spot it,
There are many blindingly obvious people out there.
And all it takes is one player to say "Dear God, what discipline are you
going to gain with that?" And with Khobar Towers being so obvious,
well...
>intrigue means that people look to hard to see what is really there.
Some of us are simple folk, too.
[ quoted text not captured ]
ja...@zephyr.org.uk writes:
>CI-ed Salubri are a fairly obvious give-away, mmmkay?>Now, if you're playing Spirit Marionette, Reversal of Fortunes,
>Telepathic Vote Counting (lots of Auspex, one hopes), Clan
>Impersonation, Khobar Towers, there's fiendish. :)
With Sal-Set you can skip Clan Impersonation and pass the
Reversal of Fortunes with unremarkable Bewitching Orations.
Then the only obvious oddity is Salubri in a Setite deck.
With extensive use of Obeah Presence outferiors, even that
might not be too freaky.
Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)
"It is better to be wrong than to be vague" - Freeman Dyson
In message <20020313134338...@mb-dd.aol.com>, CurtAdams
<curt...@aol.com> writes:
>ja...@zephyr.org.uk writes:
>>>CI-ed Salubri are a fairly obvious give-away, mmmkay?>>>Now, if you're playing Spirit Marionette, Reversal of Fortunes,
>>Telepathic Vote Counting (lots of Auspex, one hopes), Clan
>>Impersonation, Khobar Towers, there's fiendish. :)>
>With Sal-Set you can skip Clan Impersonation and pass the
>Reversal of Fortunes with unremarkable Bewitching Orations.
>Then the only obvious oddity is Salubri in a Setite deck.
>With extensive use of Obeah Presence outferiors, even that
>might not be too freaky.
It makes it rather harder to abuse if you don't include Malkavians or
Clan Impersonations, because you never get to use the Madness Network to
make sure you have them during your untap phase.
[ quoted text not captured ]